by Al Bracco | July 8th, 2009
Expectations can bring worries. And folks, I’m worried. I expect the Packers to do well this season. I expect the offense to be better balanced and more productive. I expect Dom Capers’ revamped defense to be a big improvement over last year. And finally, I expect the Packers to challenge for the NFC North Division Title.
So what am I worried about? Well, those of you who are superstitious turn away. If you believe in jinxes or “the evil eye”, stop reading. Go ahead and knock on wood, because I’m going to say it;
What if Aaron Rodgers suffers a season-ending injury?
What if the Packers come together in preseason, then beat the Bears, Bengals and Rams (totally conceivable) to get off to a quick 3-0 start. But the unthinkable happens towards the end of the Packers romp over the Rams. Mike McCarthy is slow to get Rodgers out of the game and some 3rd string Ram DE trying to make an impression crashes into Rodgers knee. One torn ACL later, Rodgers’ season is over.
Now, is there anyone out there that really believes either Matt Flynn or Brian Brohm can step in and continuing leading the team to a successful season? Any hands…? I didn’t think so.
As reported by the Green Bay Press-Gazette, even Offensive Coordinator Joe Philbin, when asked recently about the progress of his two young quarterbacks, had to think about it for awhile. When he finally did answer, he could muster no better than an unenthusiastic “Well, certainly they’re better than they’ve been”. How’s that for a ringing endorsement from your own coach?
The man responsible for this bad situation is of course, Packers GM Ted Thompson. Thompson has proven to be a polarizing figure among Packers fans, mostly because of his role in the Brett Favre saga. I find myself straddling the fence. There are things he’s done I like, there are things I don’t like. This one, I am not on board with. It’s a bad idea and a huge gamble, like going to Vegas with one year’s salary and putting it all on a roll of the dice at the craps table.
Thompson’s out there on an island with this one. I have to wonder, has any other NFL team ever done this? Starting the 2008 season with a first-year starter and two rookies as backup quarterbacks was as dangerous a move I remember coming from an NFL team. Add in the fact that neither of the rookies even remotely looked like NFL quarterbacks during that preseason, and you had to seriously doubt Thompson’s sanity.
The only thing that made it palpable to me was that I had few expectations last year. I had serious doubts about the season before it even started, so I wasn’t worried about what we would do if disaster struck. This season is different. As previously stated, I have expectations. I am not willing to accept throwing our season away if something happens to Rodgers. And make no mistake, if that particular disaster struck, the Packers season would be OVER. No chance at the Division Title and no playoffs – again.
So why would Ted Thompson choose to roll the dice again? Why did he do it in the first place? The only reason one can assume is financial. Thompson didn’t want to in 2008 and still doesn’t want to in 2009, spend the money to bring in an experienced backup quarterback. He doesn’t believe in spending money on short term solutions. I do respect a lot of the financial decisions he has made. It’s not a simple job being in the smallest NFL market, and running the only non-profit, community-owned, major professional sports team in the United States.
Thompson has to look for every opportunity to save money, and this was obviously an area he chose to do so. But what exactly does bringing in an experienced backup quarterback cost you? Looking at various signings around the league this off-season, the going rate seems to be $1,000,000 or less for a 1-year contract. For example, the World Champion Steelers signed Charlie Batch for $895,000, the Giants brought back David Carr for $1,000,000 and the Texans brought in Rex Grossman for $625,000.
While none of these guys will be starting quarterbacks on their own, at least they have enough experience that you could build a workable game plan around them. And is $1,000,000 that much to spend for a one year insurance policy at QB? Not when you’re paying Brian Brohm $2,000,000 to be a 3rd string quarterback. Whatever Ted Thompson is thinking, he certainly can’t believe the Packers are in good shape if Rodgers goes down, can he?
So here we are in July of 2009. With training camp only a few weeks away, it’s still not too late. Of course, this is a move that should have been made already. The most attractive free agent backup quarterbacks have already been snatched up by other teams.
However, there are still two guys out there that could be brought in relatively cheaply as some veteran insurance; two guys that each have 15 years experience and have played 260 NFL games between them; Gus Frerotte and Trent Green. I would take either one over Brian Brohm and/or Matt Flynn. Keep whichever of the kids you like best, but I need some veteran insurance on the Packers. After all, I have expectations…
For more info on Green and Frerotte with regards to the Packers, read this.
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Al Bracco is a Staff Op/Ed Writer for Wisconsin Sports Online.
Visit Al’s blog, Jersey Al’s Blog, for more interesting articles.
Al Bracco is also the Green Bay Packers Fan Voice on NFLTouchdown.com
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Interesting article. Charlie Batch, Rex Grossman, David Carr? The common denominator with all these guys is that they have losing records.
So why does it make you feel “safer” to sign a known loser vs developing your homegrown talent? Please remember that if you bring in one of those retreads they will suck up all of the second team snaps and therefore your young draftees growth will be stunted.
If Peyton Manning goes down how will the Colts fare with Jim Sorgi? When Brady was lost for the year who here thought that Matt Cassel would be a savior? And to the point of this article even after losing Brady the Pat’s did not bring in a seasoned veteran. And I think the Pat’s run a pretty nice program. Must be some logic to grooming your own guys for acouple years over plugging in and accomplished losing QB.
#4′s backup in 94 was Mark Brunell……and Ty detmer….
Pretty much all #2 quarterbacks have the same common denominator. I’m looking for one year of insurance.
It’s “safer” because at least I know an experienced quarterback that will not be intimidated by the job. Its safe to say everyone (even his own coaches) has been underwhelmed by Brohm and Flynn is only slightly better. Of course you want to develop players, and you make a great point with Cassel. But I happen to think the Packers can really do well this year and I for one, like to be ready for worst-case scenarios.
Response to lambeau5: I don’t think anyone thinks the Colts QB situation after Manning is a good thing. The Colts are also playing the risk game, just like the Packers. If Rodgers goes down or Manning goes down, it’s extremely difficult to believe that any of their back-ups are capable playing well. Drafting Brohm or Flynn makes a lot of sense, but drafting both of them at a time when your starting QB was unproven didn’t make any sense at all. Considering how Flynn and Brohm played last year, and how it seems that they aren’t making big strides this year, the article has some very good points. I personally agree that I would rather have Trent Green, or Gus Frerotte than a set of two unproven back-ups QBs.
Quite frankly why would anyone assume that Flynn and Brohm, coming into their second year in the system, are not far more capable of than some other teams reject?
Assuming these two young athletes are somehow incapable is a stretch IMO.
But lets us face the real truth. No one is likely going to rescue the season if Rodgers is lost. Rodgers is not a game manager for a yard-churning ground attack here. He’s a top flight QB for a complex passing attack. And Charlie freakin’ Batch nor anyone else is going to come in and be a serious threat in comparison.
So why pound that money down that rathole?
Frerotte saved the Vikings season last year. 8-3 as a starter, with no receivers the quality of Green Bay’s.
As for Flynn and Brohm, have you not been reading about how underwhelmed everyone in Green Bay is by them?
The quote by Philbin says it all. “Certainly they’re better than they’ve been”. Translated, that means “they aren’t sucking quite as badly as they used to”
Rookie quarterbacks have a very tough job their first year. Between contract negotiations, finishing school, and learning an NFL offense they are really fighting a losing battle. Now that Flynn and Brohm have had a full season and almost a full off season under their belt they are much better suited to fill in if needed.
As for ferotte taking the vikings to 8-3 please ask yourself if you think that is because of his superb quarterbacking or more that he can hand the ball off to a couple of guys named Peterson and Taylor.
I also seem to recall a second year backup who was pressed into service for an injured Packers quarterback… I think that worked out alright.
I can only think of one time when a veteran QB came in and saved the season, that being Jeff Hostettler. Otherwise, the great backups coming in to save the day were all pretty green. Brady is the shining example, Cassel – as mentioned earlier – is another, and Kurt Warner is yet another that comes to mind. Tony Romo, too, come to think of it. Hell, Brett Favre for that matter.
The seasoned veteran may “feel” safer, but recent history seems to point toward a younger backup potentially paying bigger dividends.
I can think of many examples. Earl Morrall, Vinny Testaverde, Jay Schroeder, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins, etc.
If it came to that there are a LOT of out of work QB’s and there will be more after final cuts.
Makes a LOT more sence to develop your own players then bring in a NEVER WAS or a HAS BEEN that hinders the learning progression of players all ready on the team!
Tell me what the difference was with Favre and then Rodgers backing him up?
I can think of many examples. Earl Morrall, Vinny Testaverde, Jay Schroeder, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins, etc.
Another fine read from Al. Was not he the one to call out Mr. Thompson time and again. Worthless as the day is long in mid January. If this fine web site would have any serious guts, they would remove him.
BTW, I don’t mind well focus and solid evaluation, but the bias against GB management is soo thick, it oozes.
Heavyd,
I think you have me confused with someone else. Take a look at my other articles on the right. Do you see anything bashing of Packer’s Management?
I usually end up defending them, but this particular decision I don’t like. Simple as that.
Even though your right heavyd, you must know that you can agree with a posting but you can’t disagree with them.
I was very worried last year, not with Rodgers but with his backup if he got hurt. Two rookies that were overwhelmed and had very little training. But this year after a full year learning and the extra QB school under there belts(the same way Rodgers learned) I would have to say one if not both would be ready to help out this year. No they won’t be as good as Rodgers but thats why he’s the starter. As far as Gus pr Trent go, is it possible the coach’s have check it out and there style don’t fit as good as what they have taught what we have.
OK, I’ll bite. What is heavyd right about?
And personally, I like when people disagree – that’s what creates discussion, people bring different perspectives and maybe we all learn something.
I stand corrected and apologize to you Al. I was pretty torqued by an article that called Thompson out, even in the title. While this article, by itself and your others as I stand corrected, are not the same. While I don’t agree with your premise here, I see your point and others as well.
Bringing in a vet QB will not make me feel any safer, TJ Rubley comes to mind (yeah, that is a pot shot), McMahon was a needed vet for GB at one time. I just think that last year, Flynn was selected b/c he was too good to pass in the 7th, while GB’s was determined to cover Rodgers last of starting experience with a value pick (possible 1st round) guy. Rodgers showed his stuff and Brohm faltered. This year, I am more comfortable, despite the early results. I am waiting on the pre-season. I believe we will be pleasantly surprise…. We will see.
Again, sorry Al for the mix up; happy to see you response to our notes!
I appreciate your coming back and clearing that up. No problem, we all make mistakes.
I don’t mind folks who disagree with me at all, only those that can’t put together an intelligent argument. I like to think when I write an article I’m putting out a challenge to the readers to show me why I’m wrong, so I love the comments.
TJ Rubley is a good call, BUT, he was the reason we got McMahon. If you remember, we were tied 24-24 with the Vikings with a 3rd and 1 at the Minny 38 and under a minute to play. Mike Holmgren called for a quarterback sneak. However, Rubley, the only remaining quarterback for the Packers after Favre and Detmer had gotten injured in the game, audibled and called a roll-out. He passed the ball and it was intercepted, giving Minnesota the ball and eventually, the win. He was cut from the Packers the following week and McMahon was signed.
I think I just got an idea for another article…
Thanks for checking back in.
Nice post chris
This is not even a consideration . The packers are going to be keeping Flynn and Brohm as the backups , so this is more pie in the sky stuff here.. A real concern yes .. but will we get a backup QB vet , barrinf injury ..NO .. That is an obvious answer because we didnt last year
An interesting question here could be ; what should we do if one of the backups go down . Ie who should we get . But thats another article i suppose
At this point , we know we are going to Develop Flynn and Brohm and for the Future and this is the best plan (with the options we have at present ) . Next year they will be 3rd year guys so that is some decent NFL experiance at that point… I remember how all of the know it alls (obiviously not you , but others ) were telling us that Rodgers sucked too , so i dont put much weight in them telling us that Flynn is struggling.. I never bought into the Rodgers sucks line anyhow , that was weak back then and even weaker now . Brohm he is having problems with his somewhat slow release but Flynn is doing decent . He is not a joke by any means . I would not like to see Rodgers go down for a significant part of our season , but with the team we have , which is complete and full of offensive fire power , I could see Flynn doing a serviceable job . He has enough targets and with a Resurgant rushing attack ( whoever it is , smile ) … it would be even easier for him..
Another Point here is that of Expectations . We seem to expect the team to do well for one reason or another , but we dont see the backups as being solid . Expectations of failure on one hand and expectations of success on the other . In reality the expecations should be more uniform.. as a unit . IF our Backups are weak , then we cant expect as much out of the team as a whole .. That kind of mentality I feel is better suited . Depth is always important , so it has to be part of our expectation process . We can take out key peices all over the place on this team .. What happens if our RB goes down …. etc . By simply checking the places that we are weak we can argue that we need a better back up . QB is vital but other positions are a consideration as well…
Frerotte did well because he was actually better than the starter , and had that team around him . It is unknown that he would do the same here .
You make good points, and frankly, I like to write about “pie in the sky” stuff. I am well aware there would be little chance of this happening, but that doesn’t mean I can’t still want it to happen.
And in the interest of honesty, while I was never a “Rodgers sucks” guy, I did have some doubts. But they all went away after the first two games.
As for your depth comments, if we lose Ryan Grant, we have other good options at running back. That is not the case at QB (this year) and the QB position is on a different plane than other positions. It’s not an equal comparison.
Heavy D .. You are wrong about Jersey AL , he was just bashed for supporting TT in some of his other articles .. Cant we get past this PRO-TT , Anti– TT BS and just talk frickin Football .
THANK YOU TARA!
That’s why I said he is a “polarizing” figure. No matter what you say about him, good or bad, someone is going to hate you for it.
I agree Al. Having no veteran back-up makes no sense. Lets see Cassell backed Brady up for four years, however only last year were they confortable with him being the number two. If we have to count on Fynn or Brohm we can forget the rest of the season. Having a viable back-up only makes good sense. I am not one of TT’s fans. The stunt he polled last year trading away Cory Williams was an amatuer move. TT say’s injuries killed us last year. Well if you had not traded away quality depth, we might not have been in that position. You have to be prepared for injuries in the NFL. The teams that plan and draft right, are the most successful year in and year out. I do love TT’s draft this year. Raji, Mathews and Quinn are going to rock. Sometimes less is more. Less players drafted, with better talent. We should’nt place all are apples in one cart. It would be a waste of a season if Mr. Rogers gets hurt. Farve coming in and playing in his second season is the exception and not the rule. Brady, Cassell and Warner all had three plus years learning before entering any games. I have a QB that would work and cheap, as a fact we wanted to draft him. JP Losman. Has started some games and has a strong arm and is mobile. Just a thought.
Losman was going to be my go-to guy, but as I was writing this article, I found out that he is going to the UFL. So I was left with Frerotte and Green.
Brady was a rookie!
Anything could happen in a game. Maybe Brohm is a terrible practice player and a first rate leader in the trenches. You never know until they’re in there. Luckily the game is played with 21 other starters who could pick up the slack. There have been teams with bad QB’s that have won championships. For example, I don’t think Eli is all that great.
Quarterback is a special case. Not so easy to pick up the slack of an awful QB.
Eli is not a great QB, but he is not a bad QB either. He’s good enough to win. Brohm and Flynn are not.
Gee, you would think that Thompson learned from a real idiot how to do this… The idiot Thompson learned this from, is of course RON WOLF!!! Not exactly the idiot in most minds…
Lets see, who did Wolf have to backup his somewhat unreliable QB (Majik), Uhmm that would be some guy w/ the #4. Who did Wolf have to backup #4 in his first season starting? Some kids named Detmer and Brunnell. If Favre would have ever been injured how many of those backups actually could have led the team to the playoff? Or are you saying that you had confidence in Doug Peterson?
Most of the time teams have young backup QB’s because they have a really good starter! If you have a starter that is far from a sure thing, then you need a really good backup! Hence the reason Ferrotte was the backup to Jackson. Wonder how Ferrotte would have done playing the Packers offense? I have no doubt that he would have FAILED!!! Because he doesn’t have the type of abilities to succeed in our offense!
I would have thought, being the great sage, you think you are that you would have known that!!!
Sooooooo easy to look back now and say we used the same approach and it worked out just fine. Of course, we just happened to have the greatest ironman QB in the history of the NFL. So yes, it wasn’t a problem.
Second problem is you you need to get your facts straight.
in 93 and 94, When Wolf was starting to build the team, yes, Brunell was the backup. packers finished 9-7 those years. Wolf wasn’t expecting much more at that point. As the team started to show promise in 95 Detmer was 28 and in his 4th season with the Packers – hardly a rookie. And guess who Wolf brough in for both 95 and 96 – a QB in his mid thirties called Jim McMahon. As his expectations rose, Wolf needed some insurance. And then in 97, as McMahon retired, Wolf brought in 35-year old Steve Bono as the backup. And Pederson was 29 by that time. No rookie backup QBs on our Super Bowl teams.
So you see, pretty much everything you said was wrong.
Before you make sarcastic remarks about what others have written, perhaps you should have your facts straight.
And at no point have I proclaimed myself a sage or expert or anything of the sort. Just a fan writing what he thinks and hoping to spur some discussion/debate. But regardless of what I am, at least I try to get my facts straight before I write something.
Yo Bracco:
If you were to have watched the Pats preseason last year, you would have thought that Cassel was absolutely going to get cut. He out and out sucked. And there was a rookie behind him. Here comes a guy who hasn’t started since high school and he opens a can o’ whoop ass on the NFL.
Look back at the Favre early years. Mark Brunnel. Nobody knew he was a starter…… Hasslebeck. Were you happy because Doug Pederson was in front of him?….. Aaron Brooks……
You have written these kids off…… way to early.
I haven’t
Saying I have written them off too early is a fair statement. I respect that.
Matt Cassel is the one example everyone brings up, but it seems to be the only one. And he had some pretty good coaching in college in a pro-style offense, and three years of great coaching in NE.
I’d like someone to give me an example that is closer to Brohm or Flynn’s situation.
Zeke Bratkowski.
Not sure the point you’re making but,…
Zeke Bratkowski had already played 10 years in the NFL when he came to the Packers.
He was the type of veteran pickup I am suggesting for the Packers.
Just curious… How many of the veteran backups you pointed out did you actually think could have gotten the Packers into the playoffs or won a playoff game?
Let me help you… NONE! And I don’t even want you to try to tell me that McMahon might have, cuz we both know it wouldn’t have happened. Or Peterson? Or Bono?
BTW-McMahon, if memory serves was only brought in AFTER we traded BOTH Detmer and Brunnell.
In fact the ONLY backups Favre ever had that anyone thought could win a game or more at any point in a season was Brunnell and Hasselback. And then only after they had been w/ the Packers for a couple of years. You know Brunnell and Hasselback… The guys we drafted!!! And gave a backup job to instead of a veteran, over-the-hill, never-has-been!!!
Last time I checked, McMahon WON a Super Bowl.
It’s amazing how you “KNOW” what would have happened in all these hypothetical cases you keep coming up with. I wish I had that ability. I am jealous. I only happen to “THINK” we will be in trouble if Rodgers goes down.
Serously… Did McMahon win that SB or did the best D possibly in league history and a stud RB named Payton win that game?!!!
McMahon didn’t win that SB, he managed a terrificly talented TEAM to it… If forced to make plays McMahon had no arm or running ablilty to make plays on his own.
He was a good leader and definitely a good game manager, but he didn’t WIN games for the bares!!
I would have thought you realized at least that much!!!
Again with the silly sarcasm…
You really need to read more carefully. I didn’t call McMahon a great quarterback. But the fact that he had that experience and would not be intimidated when called upon, is the underlying theme of what the Packers are missing. I’m not saying any of these guys are or were great, but given the choice of what we have on the bench and a veteran quarterback that has at least proven he can lead a team, I want the latter.
Al,
Dont get me wrong your concern is valid. But I don’t think it is as easy to bring in a vet QB as you might think. Most vets still believe they can still start and will likely take less money from say the Raiders because he thinks he can beat out the starter. The vet QB is going to pick a team to join that has a weak or young QB. Do you think Garcia would have signed here? Or Favre would have accepted a trade to the Colts?
Then there is the other class of vets. If the vet is satisfied with being a backup then he is not the hungry, scrapper that is gonna lay it on the line to gut out a win. I will take a less talented young player whose hungry over the guy who is just along for the ride and content to hold a clipboard. That describes Trent Green to me.
Or last, the guy who is hanging around waiting for an injury to hit a QB on a playoff contender. This is Vinny Testaverde. That has proven time and again to be unsuccessful.
So, ill take the Roll of the Dice this time.
Well, you make some valid points presented in an intelligent manner. Hard for me to argue much. I’ll just say you are making some very broad characterizations. Individuals don’t necessarily have all the attributes of the different categories you list.
Well, you make some valid points presented in an intelligent manner. Hard for me to argue much. I’ll just say you are making some very broad characterizations. Individuals don’t necessarily have all the attributes of the different categories you list.
Yo Aldo:
You say, “Matt Cassel is the one example everyone brings up, but it seems to be the only one. And he had some pretty good coaching in college in a pro-style offense, and three years of great coaching in NE.
I’d like someone to give me an example that is closer to Brohm or Flynn’s situation.”
Replace Cassel with Brohm in your statement. You can’t say one thing about Cassel and then NOT allow the argument for Brohm,… or even for Flynn who played on a damn good LSU team, albeit from the gun.
You want another example besides Cassel, go back to NE and throw in the name Brady, a guy drafted in the 6th that was forced to play big when the incumbent went down.
To invoke the name of Charlie the breakable Batch as a type of solution just means you haven’t done enough discovery on the backup QB situation in the NFL. There’s very little play me now talent on the pine. The mental part of the QB game seems insurmountable to guys like Leinhart or V Young.
If you’ve invested in draft picks, you have to give them enough room to show you they can or can’t play. your speculation is more appropriate after the end of preseason if both of these guys suck. Not kvetching before anyones strapped on a helmet.
Cassell had three years under him before he was pressed into action. If Brohm had to play now – season over.
And if you’re suggesting the Brian Brohm even remotely resembles Tom Brady at the same point in their careers, then I need some of what you’re smoking.
Waiting until the end of preseason to find out if both those guys suck, as you suggest, is too late. There’s nobody out else out there, so I bring Frerotte in now, keep 4 QBs in camp and see how it shakes out. If the two rooks look better, you say bye to the vet. Otherwise, you trade or let one rook go and keep the vet as insurance. You won’t be able to get him later, as many have suggested.