Conner Barwin

[golfman]

Everybody keeps selling Fackrell short like they did Ryan last offseason. Give the kid a year to get an NFL body. He showed some pass rush ability last year. Having said that I really do not want Barwin, but would rather TJ Watt be our target in round 1. Maybe his teammate too in round 4.

[cheech]

Everybody keeps selling Fackrell short like they did Ryan last offseason. Give the kid a year to get an NFL body. He showed some pass rush ability last year. Having said that I really do not want Barwin, but would rather TJ Watt be our target in round 1. Maybe his teammate too in round 4.

It would be one thing if Fackrell were 22. I'd be excited about his future.  But at 26 how much more weight and strength is he going to gain?

I think he's miscast as an edge player in our system.  He should be a strong-side linebacker in a 4-3 or a SAM in a 4-3 under. 

[golfman]

I think he can get a lot stronger. He's never had an NFL off season of conditioning.

[Lodestar]

Every time I see this thread I'm getting my hopes up. I want Barwin.

[craig]

Good question on Fackrell.  Not many guys dramatically reconfigure their bodies at age 26.  Super common to be filling out significantly at 21-22, less so at 25-26.  Maybe he'll be able to do so somewhat.  All of the colleges are huge into that too, but not to the level of the NFL.  And lets face it, there are also probably a lot more PED's and stuff in NFL circulation, so he's got that opportunity too. 

Hopefully he improves and emerges dramatically and becomes a much-improved guy.  Even assuming he doesn't get all that much stronger, he might still get better at doing what he does, skills-wise, rushing the passer. 

For Barney, even if you sign him, I don't think you'd be wised to expect him to be a 3-down guy.  If he doesn't set the edge the greatest versus the run, most downs you're not expecting run anyway; he'd not be getting wasted ever running play anyway; and if they want to run on 2nd-and-8 or 3rd-and-6, that's probably a good thing. 

Plus, even if the other edge guy isn't setting a great edge, shouldn't be a lot easier if Perry is strongly setting one edge and the LBers and safeties know it's really only the other edge that they need to be watching, in terms of outside runs? 

Aren't going to be many every-down-guys in our defensive front.  Barwin wouldn't need to be, and Fackrell doesn't need to be either. 

[SSG]

Everybody keeps selling Fackrell short like they did Ryan last offseason. Give the kid a year to get an NFL body. He showed some pass rush ability last year. Having said that I really do not want Barwin, but would rather TJ Watt be our target in round 1. Maybe his teammate too in round 4.

Ryan plays a different position though so its hard to compare.  Ryan didn't have MAJOR physical limitations that held him back as a rookie.  Ryan also wasn't the age of players going on their second contract.  How many of those guys completely change their bodies at the age of 26?  Ryan wasn't physically overwhelmed.  Fackrell was dominated damn near every time a tackle got their hands on him and it was because of a clear lack of strength.  He came into the league with the upper body strength that was a lot closer to that of a DB than an 3-4 Edge guy (15 reps on the bench.  Randall and Rollins both had 14). Without looking, i'd imagine there wasn't an 3-4 OLB in last year's class that was as limited when it came to upper body strength.  Unless he puts on 20-30 lbs of muscle I don't ever seem him developing the strength needed to be a 3 down player in our scheme.  You don't often see tackles throw players around like tackles did Fackrell last year.  Trent Williams must have thrown him 7 yards in the air against Washington in a blooper he'll see for the rest of his NFL career.

[dannobanano]

Really a lot of dumping on Fackerll around here.
I think he was "swimming" last year, coming from a smaller grade program (Utah St.) into the NFL. I'm hopeful he has a stronger grasp of the defense this year, and that it will pay dividends.
 
Do I think he's the next Julius Peppers? No!
Do I think he will be noticably improved over last year? Yes!

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/kyler-fackrell?id=2555340

DRAFT ANALYSIS:
"He is very loose and bendy to wrap around blocks and pursue from the back side. He's versatile in the passing game. He can run and mirror tight ends and he's an explosive blitzer. Overall, this is a very athletic edge defender with the ability to make plays on all three downs." -- Daniel Jeremiah

BOTTOM LINE When it comes to the length and athleticism teams will look for off the edge, Fackrell will be one of the poster boys. His field versatility, coverage talent and potential as a pass rusher could make him one of the fastest rising prospects in this draft and a future contender for a Pro Bowl nod. - Lance Zierlein

I also think that because of his last year's performance, that it is totally within reason for GB to draft two edge rushers in this years draft, plus sign Connor Barwin. In GB's defense, you can't have enough quality/potential edge rushers.

[JPPlaya]

In Barwin's case, he would almost exclusively be asked to play with his hand up and out in space. Not with his hand down on the line. Perry and Jones if re-signed will probably play the elephant role this year. They are more of that DL/OLB Hybrid while Barwin and Clay are more of the true OLB role.

Can you tell me the difference in assignments that a OLB in a 2-4-5 and a DE in 4-3 nickel have? 

There is no difference. 

One plays in space, one plays with his hand in the dirt. The elephant, in our scheme, plays both in space and with his hand in the dirt. Their responsibilities are similar to 4-3 DEs, but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not.

Thats about it. Defense is defense. Call it whatever you want 3-4, 4-3, 2-4-5 (nickel), 2-3-6 (dime). Most teams use some version of all at different times. We prefer to play Nickel the majority of the time.

[cheech]

"but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not."


I can count the number of times this has happened in the last two years on one hand.  Capers just doesn't ask those guys to drop anymore. 

[Foundling]

"but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not."


I can count the number of times this has happened in the last two years on one hand.  Capers just doesn't ask those guys to drop anymore.

Would ask it more if he had a guy who was an asset in that role? It seems possible, since they're talking to Barwin and that's sort of what that guy brings to the table.

[Toddfather]

I would be all about this... The guy gushes over Rodgers on his top 100 player segments every year. Maybe he wants to win something?

[Leader]

I'm not selling anybody short or dissing on anybody. I'm not entirely sure what Barwin's got in the tank either - so my comments could be considered "fill in the blank" with whatever player equates to what I've seen out of Barwin: relentless pursuit and agression at the point of attack. He brings it - or he used to at least - and our D so desperately needs a player like that IMO. Somebody who's gonna break his man down and get after the QB/RB.

If somebody else can do that - fine with me - no arguement at all. I just want that "step up" to the D. It'll make our secondary that much better to have PRESSURE guys up front. Take Barwin - then draft Watt?

Weapons in the DL/LB corps. Guys that will / can get after folks.

We have issues covering guys? Okay - evaluate / change / coach up the talent - and/or - get guys up front who are gonna chop down the QB's time in the pocket and smack him around.

[Donzo]

"but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not."
I can count the number of times this has happened in the last two years on one hand.  Capers just doesn't ask those guys to drop anymore.

Are you a freak with a thousand fingers? 

It happens a lot... One of my best memories of Peppers was his pick six against the the vikes.

[Donzo]

This is just wrong.  The 2-4-5 looks a hell of a lot more like a 4-3 defense than 3-4. 

Sorry for nitpicking your posts, but the 2-4-5 is real close to the standard 3-4-4.

In this alignment, one of the 3 down linemen is replaced with a deep safety- this is a standard Packer 2-4-5 alignment... At left OLB, Peppers is crouching for whatever reason, but he's lined up outside the TE- classic 3-4 OLB.

[Donzo]

A lot of different things posted here about Barwin... His skill-set is excellent, both as a pass rusher and a rund defender- FYI, he's 20lbs+ heavier than Frak... He's now on the wrong side of 30, so there's that.

Philly switched to a 4-3 last year, he's much better in the 3-4.