December 15, 2018, 06:48:00 AM

Author Topic: What is wrong with men?  (Read 1538 times)

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Offline Leader

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What is wrong with men?
« on: December 12, 2017, 05:49:03 AM »
What kind of attitude infects them to think this kind of activity is permissable?



https://nypost.com/2017/12/12/nfl-network-analysts-suspended-over-sexual-harassment-claims/

Offline Kepler

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 06:29:25 AM »
I think another question here is why are these guys getting canned on allegations? I can get on board with administrative leave until a verdict is reached, but due process is still a thing. Rape and sexual assault or harassment are vile crimes, but just because someone said it happened doesn't automatically make it true. If the general public is satisfied with ruining lives over allegations then I'm not sure what need there is for a justice system?

Edit to add that I know in this particular case he was suspended, which is good until it's resolved in court. I'm commenting on the general public climate right now. Others have been getting canned before any legal intervention can play out.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 06:32:00 AM by Kepler »

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 06:33:10 AM »
Condemned before coming to trial is in the wrong order. Condemned AFTER a trial is the right way round. The media takes a big chunk of the blame.
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Offline Leader

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 06:37:46 AM »
I think another question here is why are these guys getting canned on allegations? I can get on board with administrative leave until a verdict is reached, but due process is still a thing. Rape and sexual assault or harassment are vile crimes, but just because someone said it happened doesn't automatically make it true. If the general public is satisfied with ruining lives over allegations then I'm not sure what need there is for a justice system?

I'll agree that allegations need to be ferreted out - but I'll disagree that innocent men are gonna go quietly into the good night and allow  their lives to be ruined on the basis of unsubstantiated allegations. Just because the public's not smelling all of it theres gotta be more to these situations than smoke. I'm amazed at what many of these men were up to - many blatantly so.


Offline Leader

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 06:43:12 AM »
Condemned before coming to trial is in the wrong order. Condemned AFTER a trial is the right way round. The media takes a big chunk of the blame.

The problem with this equation (especially in the workplace situations) is the women have had no courtroom to bring that trial. They've been molested, harrassed and had men expose, press themselves up against them or fondle themselves in front of them. Where is this even remotely deemed acceptable?

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 07:05:48 AM »
There have been false claims, bucketloads of them. There have been real claims, probably many more than false claims. Condemnation before a trial  subverts the right to a trial.

It is too late to feel sorry for a guy ruined by false allegations, after he has been ostracised by society. Anonymity > trial > public revelation if guilty, in that order. Anything else is infamous. If done in the right order, it is justice - you don't just assume the man is guilty and the woman innocent, because that is sexual discrimination.

After being found guilty, the gloves are off, and society renders its own judgement alongside the law courts sentence.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 07:08:09 AM by OneTwoSixFive »
(ricky) "Personally, I'm putting this in a box, driving a stake through its heart, firing a silver bullet into its (empty) head, nailing it shut, loading it into a rocket and firing it into the sun. "

(Pink Floyd) "Set the controls for the heart of the sun"

Offline Pugger

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2017, 08:04:11 AM »
There have been false claims, bucketloads of them. There have been real claims, probably many more than false claims. Condemnation before a trial  subverts the right to a trial.

It is too late to feel sorry for a guy ruined by false allegations, after he has been ostracised by society. Anonymity > trial > public revelation if guilty, in that order. Anything else is infamous. If done in the right order, it is justice - you don't just assume the man is guilty and the woman innocent, because that is sexual discrimination.

After being found guilty, the gloves are off, and society renders its own judgement alongside the law courts sentence.

Sometimes a guy can be found innocent but his reputation is in ruins anyway.  As a woman I want the real creeps to get what's coming to them.  For far too long a lot of this activity was a dirty little secret but we can't just condemn someone by accusations alone.  Of course a lot of these cases it's "he said, she said" so they can be difficult to get to the truth.

Offline Leader

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2017, 08:40:08 AM »
There have been false claims, bucketloads of them. There have been real claims, probably many more than false claims. Condemnation before a trial  subverts the right to a trial.

It is too late to feel sorry for a guy ruined by false allegations, after he has been ostracised by society. Anonymity > trial > public revelation if guilty, in that order. Anything else is infamous. If done in the right order, it is justice - you don't just assume the man is guilty and the woman innocent, because that is sexual discrimination.

After being found guilty, the gloves are off, and society renders its own judgement alongside the law courts sentence.

Nobody is assuming the guilt of anybody that I've seen. As already stated, dont presume these guys are just walking away from their lives in the face of false accusations.

False accusations are nothing more than that: false accusations and they can be refuted with truth (and that truth equates to more than "they're a pack of liars). Unfortunate for the "walking away guys" is the truth isnt on their side.

Offline claymaker

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 12:43:55 PM »
What kind of attitude infects them to think this kind of activity is permissable?



https://nypost.com/2017/12/12/nfl-network-analysts-suspended-over-sexual-harassment-claims/

I find it hilarious. Hilarious like "what possessed them to think they could get away with it." I can't stop laughing at the stupidity of it all.

If there is a modern day "old boys club" it's the NFL. I just hope the court of public opinion isn't the highest court in the land.

Offline ricky

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 03:39:48 PM »
A trial? OK. What is the charge? What degree of sexual assault is being alleged in these cases? A true story. Many years ago (somewhere in the mid-'80's) a local restaurant in Sheboygan Falls, Wisconsin offered Packers game packages. This included a ticket, bus ride to and fro, breakfast, and all you cared to drink until the return to the restaurant. Well, a guy I worked with got pretty drunk and slapped/patted/fondled a female passenger's butt. She was furious, and when they got back to Falls, she called the police, and the guy was arrested and charged with fourth degree sexual assault. He pled guilty and paid a fine.

Now, that is what this sounds like. Trial? Hardly. But an arrest and then decide whether to pursue it to trial? Sure. I'm all for it. But the problem is that the guys doing the alleged deeds are rich enough to not worry about finances during this time. What about the woman or women, who would have to take off of work to testify, and then face all sorts of questions about their previous sexual experiences, having to re-live the experience while being asked to explain exactly how they were feeling, did they tell someone else, if so, what happened, etc. And after all that, the guys gets a fine, and goes on with his life. While the woman now faces social media harassment, among other unpleasant outcomes. And, yes, there is the possiblity of suing the guys, or the network. All you need to do is find an attorney who will take the case, and years and years of litigation, depositions and hired operatives investigating every aspect of your life.

So, what to do? Since there are allegations of sexting, that should be proof enough. As for the allegations of the "he said/she said" type, how about an arbitration process to try to sort out the truth? If either side is dissatisfied, then they can pursue other avenues of redress.

Oh, and why do guys do this? Because they think they can. Since being recruited in college with extra favors being offered, they see women, as was alleged in the article, as being put on Earth to please them. Its privilege, arrogance and a sense of entitlement. And its not just the rich and well known/powerful. Instead, it happens in restaurants, offices, home health workers, in every walk of life, its rampant.
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Offline golfman

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 04:04:15 PM »
The way this is going men are going to need a signed contract before engaging in sexual conduct with a woman. The difficult part is what is sexually inappropriate for some women may be perfectly acceptable to others. I'm not sure there is a clear definition here. I know what sexual harassment is at the workplace and do not believe any of the three are guilty by the rule of law in the case of the NFL.network. This woman was not a subordinate of any of them. Therefore, from my understanding, there was no sexual harrassment. We are heading the wrong way with this and I'm all for stopping the predators by the way.

Now, did they grab her or touch her inappropriately, then that is another subject. That is sexual assault, a Matt Lauer if you will. Legal authorities should be brought in for those cases. This is being taken too far.
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Offline claymaker

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 05:06:02 PM »
The way this is going men are going to need a signed contract before engaging in sexual conduct with a woman. The difficult part is what is sexually inappropriate for some women may be perfectly acceptable to others. I'm not sure there is a clear definition here. I know what sexual harassment is at the workplace and do not believe any of the three are guilty by the rule of law in the case of the NFL.network. This woman was not a subordinate of any of them. Therefore, from my understanding, there was no sexual harrassment. We are heading the wrong way with this and I'm all for stopping the predators by the way.

Now, did they grab her or touch her inappropriately, then that is another subject. That is sexual assault, a Matt Lauer if you will. Legal authorities should be brought in for those cases. This is being taken too far.

Should type "Nottinghamshire England, women" in your search bar. See for yourself.

Offline Lodestar

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 09:08:00 PM »
The way this is going men are going to need a signed contract before engaging in sexual conduct with a woman. The difficult part is what is sexually inappropriate for some women may be perfectly acceptable to others. I'm not sure there is a clear definition here. I know what sexual harassment is at the workplace and do not believe any of the three are guilty by the rule of law in the case of the NFL.network. This woman was not a subordinate of any of them. Therefore, from my understanding, there was no sexual harrassment. We are heading the wrong way with this and I'm all for stopping the predators by the way.

Now, did they grab her or touch her inappropriately, then that is another subject. That is sexual assault, a Matt Lauer if you will. Legal authorities should be brought in for those cases. This is being taken too far.

Did you... read the article?

Quote
According to the complaint, Weinberger pressed his crotch against her shoulder and asked her to touch it, in addition to sending her “several nude pictures of himself and sexually explicit texts” and telling her she was “put on earth to pleasure me.”

Quote
Cantor alleges that Faulk asked her “deeply personal and invasive questions” regarding her sex life, fondled her breasts, and groped her butt.

Quote
Also named is another analyst, Ike Taylor, who the filing indicates sent Cantor “sexually inappropriate” pictures of himself and a video of him masturbating in the shower.

Offline Leader

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Re: What is wrong with men?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2017, 01:57:37 AM »
This is so simple its stupid. Or put another way, its so simple only a guy could get it wrong.

A woman - any woman - should have the right, protection and understanding they can enter a workplace - any workplace - and not be groped. Not have men "impress" them with their erections. Not be subject to lewd or lascivious comments of any nature. Shall I go on? Not be trapped inside a locked office and have a coworker unzip his fly and masturbate before them - or entice them to assist. Not be forced to watch as some stupid reject j****off before them into a flowerpot. Not be the recipient of unwanted electronic "enticements".

It is so simple its stupid.

A woman - any woman - should have the right, protection and understanding they can enter a workplace - any workplace - and receive the same treatment as a man.

I'm blown away by the actions of these men. Not in some "its impolite" manner - its simply beyond the pale of normal (in my world or mind at least) to treat any woman like this. It's sexual harassment bordering on abject perversion. 

I understand kink - dont get me wrong - but this is not that. This is downright weird.