July 16, 2018, 05:33:24 AM

Author Topic: Packers suck at talent evaluation  (Read 911 times)

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Offline marklawrence

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Offline phanatic1

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2018, 07:44:46 PM »
I don't really dispute much of what was written in the article, but at this point, it really has nothing to do with the Packers today.  It is a shot at TT and his philosophy and many did have issues with his lack of free agent activity.  The article is a year late and some what irrelevant now.  The time to cry about spilled milk is behind this organization.


Online scoremore

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2018, 09:12:07 PM »
No team is perfect.   They made some decisions that in retrospect don't look wise.  At the time we let Casey walk we were stacked at Corner.  Only so much money to go around and Casey was the odd man out.  Hyde is a gamer.  Good at many positions master of none.  Still don't view it as a big loss.  He had a great season last year and I don't really care.  Made some plays for the Pack but agree with the Packers on this one.  He is replaceable.  Sitton was a real head scratcher.   Packers didn't want to extend him he was upset.  Packers moved on.  Sucks but the Packers didn't miss him too much.  Hell of a player.  Hindsight is always 20/20 and this article is full of it.  TT was a very good GM.  Scouting department routinely found late round gems.  We'll see how Gute does.  Think he'll do a good job.

Offline Gregg

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2018, 12:21:58 AM »
After reading the article, what is the status of Davon House right now?

Offline ricky

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2018, 06:33:53 AM »
https://www.isportsweb.com/2018/04/07/green-bay-packers-poor-position-evaluations/amp/

Take three players, one of whom was a long term starter, and make them superstars. Sitton was replaced with little to no change in production by a player who cost less. He had been battling nagging injuries, was getting older and was replaced, which is not unusual. Football is a game of replacement, and isn't it better to lose a player a year too early? And did he really excel elsewhere? Meanwhile, he was apparently) perceived by the team to be an agitator. Or, he was a respected locker room leader. The team made its decision. This is a "push" move.

So, Casey Hayward is dredged up again. It was all the Packers fault he was injured; that his produciton dipped drastically; that he was regularly derided by the fans for his poor play. So they let him walk, and he's doing well elsewhere. This sort of thing happens. Ahman Green flopped in Seattle and thrived in GB. Stuff happens. Deal with it.

Micah Hyde became a free agent, and Buffalo paid a lot to get his services. $14 million guaranteed on a five year contract worth over $30 million. This for a backup in GB. So, should the Packers have kept him? Sure, but then you have less money to spend elsewhere. Its a zero sum game. You can't keep everyone. Here are his contract numbers in Buffalo:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/micah-hyde-12440/

Bottom line, the article is a hatchet job with a decided agenda. What if I chose AR, CMIII and Daniels as examples of "draft and develop"? Or Bakhtiari, Linsley and Taylor? Choose your argument and find facts that fit your beliefs is not journalism, its advocacy.
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Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2018, 07:56:02 AM »
The title was more 'combative' than the article itself. did the Packers make some bad decisions, in retrospect ? Yes they did. However, every organisation makes some poor calls if it is around long enough, so it's not as big a deal as some might make it.

As phanatic said, it is water under the bridge now as the staff have had such a comprehensive turnover this offseason. Looking at Ted's success over the years, he seems to have had more success early, than recently, but due to the very high reliance on the draft, it's hard to successfully follow that philosophy over a long period of typically late picks. Things are pretty different now.

You didn't like the playbook ? Packers are re-examining it from the ground up. Didn't like how the co-ordinators went about their business, they have both been changed. Didn't like the way the head coach and GM communicated, now the structure has changed. Didn't like how unprepared Hundley looked when Aaron went down ? Now the QB coach is gone and the Packers have traded for another potential no.2. Didn't think Murphy was involved enough ? He is more in the loop now. Didn't like how Ted managed player acquisition, he is now there in a purely advisory capacity.

The Packers seem to have put every aspect of the organisation under a pretty critical microscope, and made sweeping changes. Unfortunately they have more holes than usual this year, made worse by the loss of Nelson, Burnett and Randall, but if things were working well, this many changes to the organisation wouldn't have been made. I think the overall effect of the changes WILL be good for the Packers, but good over time. Less predictable playbook, better management communication, better locker room, better position coaches and coordinators, more accountability, more active veteran player acquisition - maybe not everything new will work, but that can be adjusted over time if the will is there, and this offseason the will is evidently there.



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Offline marklawrence

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2018, 08:33:25 AM »
When you're draft and develop, you cannot let three pro bowl players walk and expect to have good results.
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Offline phanatic1

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2018, 12:14:29 PM »
I am not sure debating moves from a few years back is all that valuable.  Every team moves on from players and has moves they would like to take back.  Obviously New England does it every year, but they somehow seem to survive and win.  Letting Solder, Crooks and Amendola go seems pretty drastic, but they will win 12-13 games and be right there in the end. 

I was not a fan of TT and hated how he sat on his hands during free agency.  He held this team back and may have cost the organization another Super Bowl win. Ultimately, I think his lack of activity cost him the support of MM and forced Murphy to push him into a different role.   His philosophy worked 15 years ago, but not in the current landscape of the NFL. 

But its time to move into the Gutekunst era.  All signs point to some philosophical changes in talent evaluation and how the roster is built. 

Offline marklawrence

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2018, 02:12:41 PM »
For most of the last eighteen years the Patriots has been all but guaranteed six wins in their division. This has been huge for them.
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Offline craig

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2018, 09:03:15 PM »
...But its time to move into the Gutekunst era.  All signs point to some philosophical changes in talent evaluation and how the roster is built.

Yes, those are good points, and I get the notion of forget the past, that TT is gone so all things are new. 

My hesitancy in viewing it as a clean slate, and blaming any past errors on TT, is that Gute was the chief of draft scouting and probably was a lead advisor on other evaluations as well, given that management chose him as TT's successor.  So I'm nervous that if there were too many recent evaluation errors, that Gute may be partially responsible for them.  And that perhaps his evaluation skills, and those of his advisors (all of whom were already part of the evaluation system over recent years) may not be championship-quality going forward? 

3 years ago, Packer evaluators thought Tramon and House should be replaced; now years later the evaluators think Tramon is a good replacement, and last year they thought House was. Three years ago evaluators thought Randall and Rollins were good solutions; a year later they thought they were such good solutions that Hyde and Hayward were expendable.  Randall and Rollins were involved in those evaluations, and Gute as director of college scouting must have been a player in supporting them as worthwhile selections. 

It seems the evaluations on those six guys have been variably faulty, with enormous consequences to the team, and that Gute must have had opportunity to speak into some of them. 

Offline ricky

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2018, 06:02:48 AM »
When you're draft and develop, you cannot let three pro bowl players walk and expect to have good results.

Sitton was the only Pro Bowl player with the Packers that was let go. And the Giants let Kurt Warner go, and he led the Cardinals to the SB. Sometimes a change of teams can make a decent player a Pro Bowler.
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Offline Gregg

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2018, 07:37:21 AM »
Ricky:

The Giants let Warner go because they had drafted Eli Manning.

Does this mean that Rollins, Randall and Johnson were in Manning's class as replacements?

Offline SB XLIX

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Re: Packers suck at talent evaluation
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2018, 11:47:05 AM »
Hayward and Hyde, I put that on Capers, and he is gone.
I think Hayward's play slipped maybe because he was no longer buying into what the DC was selling.
If you don't use a player correctly, he won't perform as well as he could.
That applies to Hyde as well.  GB did not value him as much as Buff did. 
They did not know how to use him.  They probably thought the Bills grossly overpaid him.  They would not match that price.

I think Sitton was just a case of not wanting to tie up too many dollars on G.
The Packers just don't value the position that highly.
They don't even draft guards.  I think they've drafted one in the last 5 years.

Going forward, MM has exceeded my wildest dreams in his selection of the new DC.
I never imagined he was capable of selecting such an outstanding high profile candidate.
That move alone has gotten me very exited about the upcoming season.

I don't know about Gute, we'll just have to wait and see.
On the one hand, he is not TT, so that would seem to be a positive.
On the other hand, he did positively evaluate Jason Spriggs, so there is that.