To Ye of little faith...

[Leader]

Both arguments are flawed. 

Pointing to the scoreboard and ignoring the offense that we faced and the circumstances presented in the secondary are rather short-sighted.  Arguing that only the scoreboard matters is also ignoring the context of the entire game and areas that the defense can improve. 

What we've seen over the last few weeks, against some of the better QB's and offenses the league has to offer, is that our defense needs to play a 2 deep safety look in order to limit the passing game.  We're just too thin in the secondary to go crazy with any defensive schemes.  That isn't Capers' fault.  The result is a team that is going to give up more in the running game - especially when Joe Thomas is asked to take on a pulling guard or a FB as he was a few times last night.  He's just not built for that. 

The only beef I could find with the defensive game plan was playing nickel defense vs. 2 TE sets on 3-4 occasions (one resulted in a rather easy TD run), dropping Peppers into zone coverage and rushing 3 on third and 15 in the RZ, and not limiting a clearly limited Randall's snaps.  Outside of that, Dom did what he could with what he has.

In my opinion, the biggest blunder was playing Randall.  He's clearly still injured.  He can't drop his ass in his backpedal.  The result of playing too high shows up when he's slow to break on nearly everything thrown his way.  That, paired with confidence issues, makes him a player that you just need to sit until he's healthy again.  Hawkins had 15 snaps in the game and he was also beat on 2 plays, but at some point you have to just go with the guy that can compete more consistently. 


Now, it's pretty clear that I am one of "them" that you are referring to in this thread.  Honestly, if you're going to say something just say it.  Name the problem.  Call me out. 

This is what I'll maintain:
I called MM out when the offense was a mess.  I made suggestions on how to fix the offense.  It turned out that when he made those adjustments the offense turned around dramatically fast.  When things were at their worst - when we were 4-6 and we saw no signs of MM making adjustments, yeah, I was in favor of him being fired.  Had he not made those offensive adjustments we wouldn't be in the playoffs and I'd maintain that a change would be imperative.  Since I've given him credit for making those adjustments multiple times even if they were a long time coming. 

I called out Capers when he played almost exclusively zone coverage for a 3-4 game stretch this season.  I said that our DB's were better suited to play man.  Now we have even more injuries piling up, but we're seeing Gunter follow the #1 receiver with Hyde manning the slot and Randall in man coverage on the other side.  Our secondary is still the weak link, but that small adjustment on the back end has salvaged what was left of a depleted unit. 

I was against keeping Julius Peppers.  I admitted that he could still play but that he wasn't worth his 8 million per year.  Peppers has made some big plays this year.  He's also been invisible for incredibly long stretches - something that just can't happen when you're in the top 5 earners on a team.  Nick Perry turned in his best year yet - something I saw coming since the Washington playoff game last season.  Ted is still in a position to keep Perry, but he may easily lose out on Hyde, Lang, Lacy, D. Jones, etc. 

I was pissed about Ted cutting Sitton without an ounce of compensation.  I was flat out wrong on my analysis of who Taylor was as a player.  He's a hell of a lot better than he was this pre-season.  I'll admit that the move worked out swimmingly for Ted.  I still don't like the risk - Ted was awfully fortunate that Taylor and Lang stayed healthy and we didn't have to see stretches of Donny Barclay at OG which clearly would have been a disaster. 

I was also upset that Allison was cut over Davis.  While I was flat out wrong about Allison beating out Adams for our #3 spot (Adams is easily our #2) I feel justified in my analysis of Allison as a kid that runs great routes and has great hands.  His future is bright.  Davis, on the other hand, wasn't active for the last half of the season.  He was one of the few healthy scratches on the team week in and week out.  I'd love for him to become a player, but right now I just don't see it. 

I'm still in favor of switching to a 4-3 and playing Matthews inside.  I understand that he's still hurt, but its hard to deny that he's just not an elite player at OLB anymore.  I'd love to see him freed up to move around like he did last year instead of seeing him suffer through 2-3 more seasons at OLB.  I could still be dead wrong on this one. 

Like I said a month ago - I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong.  I'm just not wrong very often. 

Way too many first person references. Pass.

[B]

He once was wrong... You see he thought he was once mistaken, but it turned out he was wrong about being mistaken

[bbayley]

Nobody is 'rubbbing it in'.


It's just that these ranters kind of disapppear whe things are going good and they can't think of a reason to pound their keyboards with their rants.

LMG,

I would say that it goes both ways with that.  There are some on here that are very negative for the most part, and there are others that definitely 'rub it in' after not really contributing during the year.  And there are a lot in between, with a wide range of those closer to each side of the spectrum.

I think that I speak for a decent portion of us, and hopefully not out of turn in speaking for them, in saying that we like to be able to use this place as a forum for Packer thoughts.  When we're in the midst of a 4-6 record and getting blown out by non-playoff teams, that usually leads to some harsh criticism.  When we make a run like this year after that, also leads to some more positive thoughts.

Those that complain 100% of the time aside, if we're supposed to be posting positive thoughts when the team is 4-6, that's a fair stance, would just like that to be made clear.

[Donzo]

I would say that it goes both ways with that.  There are some on here that are very negative for the most part, and there are others that definitely 'rub it in' after not really contributing during the year.  And there are a lot in between, with a wide range of those closer to each side of the spectrum.

I think that I speak for a decent portion of us, and hopefully not out of turn in speaking for them, in saying that we like to be able to use this place as a forum for Packer thoughts.  When we're in the midst of a 4-6 record and getting blown out by non-playoff teams, that usually leads to some harsh criticism.  When we make a run like this year after that, also leads to some more positive thoughts.

Those that complain 100% of the time aside, if we're supposed to be posting positive thoughts when the team is 4-6, that's a fair stance, would just like that to be made clear.

Your hypocrisy is appalling (it’s the rantt and rave section for you power whiners, so I’ll say the ugly word). You follow the same script as all the other entitled bellyachers. Your agenda is to piss and moan and make sure Packer fans, who are trying to actually discuss Packer issues, are brought down to your level.

Just like almost all the other power whiners, you demand your right to pollute the board with your agenda driven ignorant, censorious evaluations of the Packers. Yet, when the tables are turned when your posts are evaluated, you have a tantrum- brutal hypocrisy…

I’m sure you’re feeling like a victim because I’m pointing out your hypocrisy, you power whiners love your victim status. But, just look at your posts about Randall and your comments in the Dallas post game thread... A thread was started about how well Randall played against the Giants and you had a fit. You weren’t going to have that, you had to instigate by polluting the thread with your hypercritical agenda. You resorted to making things up to drive home your agenda… Then, in the Dallas post game thread, a poster reminded someone about their negative comments. You responded by taking that poster to task for instigating… Wow, classic do as I say not as I do.

So, once again you demand your right to spew your itinerary with your agenda driven hypercritical analysis. Yet, you and your brethren are the biggest victims in the world when your posts are analyzed.

For positive analysis about a 4-6 team, it's just about analysis. Analysis should never have a bias... You're handicapped with your agenda, so I understand that's a tough concept for you.

For not being here when the Packers were 4-6, I was gone way before that…  As LMG pointed out, you power whiners like to disappear when things are good.  Now, I come and go as a poster, but it has nothing to do with performance. For instance, I had been thinking about getting involved with the solar energy sector. In August, I decided to take a job in solar energy; I also kept the job I already had… So, my time for Packer message board disappeared.

[LMG]

Nobody is 'rubbbing it in'.


It's just that these ranters kind of disapppear whe things are going good and they can't think of a reason to pound their keyboards with their rants.

LMG,

I would say that it goes both ways with that.  There are some on here that are very negative for the most part, and there are others that definitely 'rub it in' after not really contributing during the year.  And there are a lot in between, with a wide range of those closer to each side of the spectrum.

I think that I speak for a decent portion of us, and hopefully not out of turn in speaking for them, in saying that we like to be able to use this place as a forum for Packer thoughts.  When we're in the midst of a 4-6 record and getting blown out by non-playoff teams, that usually leads to some harsh criticism.  When we make a run like this year after that, also leads to some more positive thoughts.

Those that complain 100% of the time aside, if we're supposed to be posting positive thoughts when the team is 4-6, that's a fair stance, would just like that to be made clear.

Not really proper to 'speak' for others as they really may not agree.


Yesterday I put up a thread here titled 'Definitions'...you may have read it.


If not here it is;

Critique - a careful judgment in which you give your opinion about the good and bad parts of something.


Rant - to talk loudly and in a way that shows anger: to complain in a way that is unreasonable.

Some like to say they are 'criticizing' or 'critiquing' when actually they are 'ranting' which challenges or baits people to respond in kind. The personal attacks on Members then begins...hence the Rant & Vent Forum was created for that kind of talk.


Some think they can't post their 'thoughts' in the other Forums...not true! But if one feels the need to pound their keyboards with irrational juvenile comments more suited for say the ESPN boards then the R&V Forum should be perfect for them. If not then I suggest ESPN.


Our Members are aware that we Moderate more than other places and that hasn't changed since 1996 and won't change in the forseable future.


 

[cpk1994]

Both arguments are flawed. 

Pointing to the scoreboard and ignoring the offense that we faced and the circumstances presented in the secondary are rather short-sighted.  Arguing that only the scoreboard matters is also ignoring the context of the entire game and areas that the defense can improve. 

The only thing that matters in the playoffs is the score. Either you win or you go home. Beating them by 1 has the same value as beating them by 35. All that other stuff is water cooler BS.  With the limit on players due to all the injuries there is nothing fancy you can do personnel wise that will magically make them better. You take whoever you have at this point and go play. Everything you blather on will be addressed in the off-season.

[dannobanano]

I'm not afraid to admit that I was not a happy camper after 10 games.

For the most part I just stayed away for a while rather than say something negative or come across as a fair-weather fan.

Now, I'm sure somewhere along the line I have said some stuff that I likely wish I would not have said.

So with that out there................

[LMG]

You da Man!!!!

[B]

danno is da man!!!!

[bbayley]

I would say that it goes both ways with that.  There are some on here that are very negative for the most part, and there are others that definitely 'rub it in' after not really contributing during the year.  And there are a lot in between, with a wide range of those closer to each side of the spectrum.

I think that I speak for a decent portion of us, and hopefully not out of turn in speaking for them, in saying that we like to be able to use this place as a forum for Packer thoughts.  When we're in the midst of a 4-6 record and getting blown out by non-playoff teams, that usually leads to some harsh criticism.  When we make a run like this year after that, also leads to some more positive thoughts.

Those that complain 100% of the time aside, if we're supposed to be posting positive thoughts when the team is 4-6, that's a fair stance, would just like that to be made clear.

Your hypocrisy is appalling (it’s the rantt and rave section for you power whiners, so I’ll say the ugly word). You follow the same script as all the other entitled bellyachers. Your agenda is to piss and moan and make sure Packer fans, who are trying to actually discuss Packer issues, are brought down to your level.

Just like almost all the other power whiners, you demand your right to pollute the board with your agenda driven ignorant, censorious evaluations of the Packers. Yet, when the tables are turned when your posts are evaluated, you have a tantrum- brutal hypocrisy…

I’m sure you’re feeling like a victim because I’m pointing out your hypocrisy, you power whiners love your victim status. But, just look at your posts about Randall and your comments in the Dallas post game thread... A thread was started about how well Randall played against the Giants and you had a fit. You weren’t going to have that, you had to instigate by polluting the thread with your hypercritical agenda. You resorted to making things up to drive home your agenda… Then, in the Dallas post game thread, a poster reminded someone about their negative comments. You responded by taking that poster to task for instigating… Wow, classic do as I say not as I do.

So, once again you demand your right to spew your itinerary with your agenda driven hypercritical analysis. Yet, you and your brethren are the biggest victims in the world when your posts are analyzed.

For positive analysis about a 4-6 team, it's just about analysis. Analysis should never have a bias... You're handicapped with your agenda, so I understand that's a tough concept for you.

For not being here when the Packers were 4-6, I was gone way before that…  As LMG pointed out, you power whiners like to disappear when things are good.  Now, I come and go as a poster, but it has nothing to do with performance. For instance, I had been thinking about getting involved with the solar energy sector. In August, I decided to take a job in solar energy; I also kept the job I already had… So, my time for Packer message board disappeared.

In terms of your comment, yeah, I don't think Randall is a viable option, and voiced it throughout the season.  B, who I respect as a poster, posted a thread on him being the top ranked CB in the playoffs.  I voiced my opinion, and sure enough, like almost every week this year, he was a massive liability the following week.  I would consider that to be fairly relevant discussion, but I may be in the minority on that.

As for the policing the Dallas threads, I made two such comments.  Mark, who I fairly regularly don't agree with, chose to call someone out on their negativity in the in-game thread during the later moments of the game.  I thought that when most posters are commenting about the game, it would be more beneficial to not reply in a negative manner to a negative post, knowing that it would lead to multiple people talking about that response instead of the game.  Right or wrong, it definitely led to a decent amount of those responses.  The other one was in response to CPK bringing up the lack of support for Crosby years ago.  As mentioned in another thread, it's one thing (IMO) to discuss players that are directly impacting the week to week performance.  It's another thing (IMO) to mention thoughts of posters from years ago in regards to one of our best players over the last few years.

[bbayley]

For not being here when the Packers were 4-6, I was gone way before that…  As LMG pointed out, you power whiners like to disappear when things are good.  Now, I come and go as a poster, but it has nothing to do with performance. For instance, I had been thinking about getting involved with the solar energy sector. In August, I decided to take a job in solar energy; I also kept the job I already had… So, my time for Packer message board disappeared.

I will say congrats on the new job, along with the other one, and in all honesty hope it's going well.

That being said, I think this is so far off course for a forum it's fairly ridiculous.  You're too busy to post, that's fine, but to just show up at random times and make fun of the most frequent posters when you do have some time, is out of line in my book.

You've taken offense to Golf, myself, SSG, Cheech and The GM, all in recent weeks, all top 20 posters or so on the site (at least from the new update) - all while not posting anything throughout the season.

That, to me, is the definition of a troll.  So, you got me to bite, well played on that as well.

LMG described the 'definitions' of posts on this forum a few posts ago.  In my years on the board, I don't recall ever having a specific beef with anyone other than a single poster from a couple years ago that was banned from the site (If you need me to look that up, I'm happy to, don't remember it off the top of my head).  I've been commenting on game threads, packer news, draft news, and nfl talk (even helping out on the admin support when users had questions) for years. 

If I'm that much of a hypocrite/problem, I'll be happy to let LMG let me know.  And although I don't want to, as I've been commenting with many on here for quite some time, I can find another forum to post on if need be.  But for you to only show up at your convenience and make fun of some of the most frequent posters on here without adding anything throughout the year doesn't work for me.

[Donzo]

I will say congrats on the new job, along with the other one, and in all honesty hope it's going well... That being said, I think this is so far off course for a forum it's fairly ridiculous.  You're too busy to post, that's fine, but to just show up at random times and make fun of the most frequent posters when you do have some time, is out of line in my book.


If I'm that much of a hypocrite/problem, I'll be happy to let LMG let me know.  And although I don't want to, as I've been commenting with many on here for quite some time, I can find another forum to post on if need be.  But for you to only show up at your convenience and make fun of some of the most frequent posters on here without adding anything throughout the year doesn't work for me.

Thanks for the well wishes... An FYI, I left the solar gig just before Christmas. I learned the industry, which was my goal, and will probably reenter solar in February or March. If I don't go back to solar, there's an opportunity with a "new" medicinal drug here in Florida that I'll get involved with- that would be interesting.

To the other stuff, you're off base with your claim about my "random" posting. There's nothing random about my posting. I was gone for around five months, basically the whole season. I wasn't here when the Packers were 4-2 or when they were 4-6. Now, I'm back until the season is over... I'll then take a break until the week of the draft, like I normally do.

Which brings us back to your pretense. It's interesting you're so upset about what you perceive as my random posting, yet have no problem with the power whiners coming and going... Isn't that peculiar...

 

[Donzo]

Outstanding!

[Leader]

Which brings us back to your pretense. It's interesting you're so upset about what you perceive as my random posting, yet have no problem with the power whiners coming and going... Isn't that peculiar...

I'm sure there must be something to be gained from this ongoing saga. Quite the psychological thriller we've got going here.....but, I cant quite figure out what that something is. Can we drop it now? Will we ever reach the point where the subjects been talked out? Points made? Understanding reached? A meeting of the minds achieved?

Quit picking. Move on. Leave each other alone. Talk football.

[rock county]

I will step forward and confess my sins.

When the Packers were 4-6, it was realistic to think that they had to run the table to make the playoffs.  10-6 usually doesn't even win a division, but it more than likely would get you into a wildcard.  Sometimes,sometimes9-7 will get you a wild card. 

So, I drew this conclusion while they were at 4-6.  If the Packers were to lose one more game, they were out of the playoffs, more than likely.  If the Packers were to reach 7 losses, there was little chance of making playoffs. So, once/if they hit that loss mark, I didn't care about more wins that would lower their draft picks. If they did hit that number, then I would've been more interested in them developing players and obtaining the best slot in the draft that they could.

Even if they did make the playoffs at 9-7, odds would be that they'd get bounced out in the first round.

Turns out that 7 losses did get the Lions into the playoffs and were unceremoniously shown the door after their first game to the Seahawks.  To me, that's not a rewarding season, just a worse draft number.  Yes, it gets some players "playoff experience" but at what cost?  Feel free to throw in the 2011 NY Giants and their record at this point.

The 4-12 Rams would've picked 5th this draft (if they hadn't traded it)

The 9-7 playoff Lions pick 21st.

Had the Packers gone to 4-8, I would've been all for the development of players and procuring higher draft picks.  I choose not to use the phrase "tank the season".

With that thought process being exposed, have I ever thought "GEESH! I HATE THE PACKERS, I'M GONNA FOLLOW DEM 'BOYS (somebody else)!"? Never. Ever.

Am I a "fair-weather" fan?  No. I watch all the games, regardless of record with interest and thought toward future games.  The degree of interest does realistically fluctuate though.