February 20, 2018, 01:27:34 PM

Author Topic: How good a coach is MM really?  (Read 2821 times)

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Offline ebterp

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How good a coach is MM really?
« on: October 22, 2017, 04:44:31 PM »
Listen he definitely deserves some credit for consistant play of this team over time but where would he be without Rodgers? If you take Rodgers and put him on any other team are they are a consistant playoff team and maybe even challenging for championships? I have to be honest and say that I am starting to believe MM is a average coach who lucked into an all world QB...just saying...

EB

Online ricky

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2017, 05:14:38 PM »
Listen he definitely deserves some credit for consistant play of this team over time but where would he be without Rodgers? If you take Rodgers and put him on any other team are they are a consistant playoff team and maybe even challenging for championships? I have to be honest and say that I am starting to believe MM is a average coach who lucked into an all world QB...just saying...

EB

An old argument. Just ask Jerry Jones and the Cowboys of the '90's. Jimmy Johnson was just another coach. That team was so good, you could plug in any coach and they'd win. Well, they did win another SB under Switzer. And probably left another couple on the field.

Keep in mind that MM came in when Favre thought he ws bigger than the team, and was brought back to his senses and became a much better QB under MM. And, lets not forget that Rodgers was not that great a QB when he came out of Cal. He had some tools, but needed extensive work with his mechanics, strength and attitude before he blossomed. Maybe that happens with another coach. Maybe not. But to claim that "MM is an average coach who lucked into an all world QB" misses the process of how he became so good.

"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline Pugger

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2017, 05:52:36 PM »
I don't have a problem with McCoach.  Capers is another story entirely.  I think he should "retire".  If we had even an average defense we had a chance today. 

Offline golfman

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2017, 06:52:32 PM »
I don't have a problem with McCoach.  Capers is another story entirely.  I think he should "retire".  If we had even an average defense we had a chance today.

Who keeps employing capers year after year?
"Make the Packers Great Again! "

Online ricky

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2017, 07:35:30 PM »
Who keeps employing capers year after year?

MM is considered two things that can be seen as negatives or positives. One, he is loyal. Two, he can be stubborn. In the case of Capers, this has led to a defense that has underperformed. Am I suggesting I know more than either of these guys about football? Absolutely not. But sometimes, looking from the outside, you can sometimes view things with more detatchment.

Also, if the rest of the organization really believed Capers was a problem, why hasn't MM been called into an executive meeting with TT, Murphy and others, and asked why he would keep Capers around? Don't the Packers do an performance analysis of all their personnel every year? I'm going to submit this question to Packers.com, and hopefully get an answer. If I do, I'll share it with everyone.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline Whiskey Sam

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 06:20:46 AM »
Listen he definitely deserves some credit for consistant play of this team over time but where would he be without Rodgers? If you take Rodgers and put him on any other team are they are a consistant playoff team and maybe even challenging for championships? I have to be honest and say that I am starting to believe MM is a average coach who lucked into an all world QB...just saying...

EB

In the most literal sense, 2-8-1 when Rodgers is injured.  Hasn't been able to develop any QBs but Rodgers in his time here despite having a reputation as a QB guru.

Offline Pugger

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 08:30:51 AM »
Listen he definitely deserves some credit for consistant play of this team over time but where would he be without Rodgers? If you take Rodgers and put him on any other team are they are a consistant playoff team and maybe even challenging for championships? I have to be honest and say that I am starting to believe MM is a average coach who lucked into an all world QB...just saying...

EB

In the most literal sense, 2-8-1 when Rodgers is injured.  Hasn't been able to develop any QBs but Rodgers in his time here despite having a reputation as a QB guru.

Of course with the restrictions on offseason practices I wonder if that has put and end to MM's QB school?   :-\

Offline ebterp

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 01:32:04 PM »
10-8 in the playoffs, if you take away the SB year 6-8. By my count. The losses have been either pretty much non-competitive or collapses...when is the last time we actually beat a good team in the playoffs.

2011 - lay an egg against Giants
2012 - beaten badly by SF
2013 - Competitive game with SF
2014 - Seattle game collapse
2015 - Competitive game with Zona - still believe he should have gone for 2 at end of game...no balls
2016 - beaten badly by Atlanta

EB

Offline RT

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 04:40:10 AM »
10-8 in the playoffs, if you take away the SB year 6-8. By my count. The losses have been either pretty much non-competitive or collapses...when is the last time we actually beat a good team in the playoffs.

2011 - lay an egg against Giants
2012 - beaten badly by SF
2013 - Competitive game with SF
2014 - Seattle game collapse
2015 - Competitive game with Zona - still believe he should have gone for 2 at end of game...no balls
2016 - beaten badly by Atlanta

EB

This is a fair question I guess. Cases can be made on both sides of the fence here.

Your comment, 'if you take away the SB year 6-8' is nonsense, might as well state that if you take away his 10 playoff wins, he is 0-8. 'When is the last time we actually beat a good team in the playoffs'? Last year against Dallas. Every win in the playoffs is against a good team.

Offline Pugger

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 09:28:01 AM »
10-8 in the playoffs, if you take away the SB year 6-8. By my count. The losses have been either pretty much non-competitive or collapses...when is the last time we actually beat a good team in the playoffs.

2011 - lay an egg against Giants
2012 - beaten badly by SF
2013 - Competitive game with SF
2014 - Seattle game collapse
2015 - Competitive game with Zona - still believe he should have gone for 2 at end of game...no balls
2016 - beaten badly by Atlanta

EB

This is a fair question I guess. Cases can be made on both sides of the fence here.

Your comment, 'if you take away the SB year 6-8' is nonsense, might as well state that if you take away his 10 playoff wins, he is 0-8. 'When is the last time we actually beat a good team in the playoffs'? Last year against Dallas. Every win in the playoffs is against a good team.

 goodpost

Online ricky

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 11:02:00 AM »
Name a coach who was successful for multiple years who didn't have a franchise QB. Or, in the case of some very lucky coaches, more than one top drawer QB. Please note the "multiple years" before responding. This doesn't have to be SB winners. Just teams with the same coach who have been successful for an extended period of time.   
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline ebterp

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2017, 09:57:29 AM »
Name a coach who was successful for multiple years who didn't have a franchise QB. Or, in the case of some very lucky coaches, more than one top drawer QB. Please note the "multiple years" before responding. This doesn't have to be SB winners. Just teams with the same coach who have been successful for an extended period of time.

I think that is the point...having that type of QB pretty much guarantees the success that we have seen under MM...there are quite a few coaches that have won a superbowl and been consistant with a QB that isn't as good as Rodgers...Steelers, Ravens, Seattle etc..

EB

Online ricky

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2017, 12:15:27 PM »
I think that is the point...having that type of QB pretty much guarantees the success that we have seen under MM...there are quite a few coaches that have won a superbowl and been consistant with a QB that isn't as good as Rodgers...Steelers, Ravens, Seattle etc..

EB

Sorry, but that is nonsense. Steelers won SB's with a great defense, an excellent running game, and a HOF QB. They surged again when they had another franchise QB in Roethlisberger. The Ravens made it to a SB with a great defense and a poor QB (Dilfer). They won another by getting very lucky at the right time. Since winning that SB with Flacco, they have gone back into hibernation. Seattle got to a SB with Hasselbeck, and back-to-back SB's with Wilson. And a very tough defense. If you can fill in the "etc." teams, I'll be glad to consider them. Before you do, however, please provide some research to back up your opinion.

"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline Pugger

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2017, 06:56:53 AM »
Name a coach who was successful for multiple years who didn't have a franchise QB. Or, in the case of some very lucky coaches, more than one top drawer QB. Please note the "multiple years" before responding. This doesn't have to be SB winners. Just teams with the same coach who have been successful for an extended period of time.

Of course to some not winning more than one SB with a top drawer QB doesn't = success.

Offline B

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2017, 01:45:40 PM »
 Don Shula, widely regarded as one of the greatest coaches of all time, never won a Super Bowl with Dan Marino as his quarterback for 18 seasons.  Shula's record with Marino as his quarterback in the playoffs was 8 wins & 10 losses.

 People say all kinds of nonsense, it doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.
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They just ran out of time.
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