November 18, 2018, 05:25:44 PM

Author Topic: Matching need to Best Player with first picks  (Read 1817 times)

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Offline golfman

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Re: Matching need to Best Player with first picks
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2017, 05:05:29 AM »
I want defense in rounds 1-3. Rodgers is going to have a running game next year and is going to need to rely on it to get us to the Super Bowl. If we possess the ball 3-4 more minutes per game that is probably going to help our defense out by 5-7 points.

Yep, we might lose either Jordy or Cobb next year. I see no way TT allows Davante to hit the open market. That means Rodgers is going to have to lean on his other players next year, like it or not.

My ideal draft is

1. EDGE pass rusher
2. CB or EDGE pass rusher
3a. whatever we didn't get in round 2
3b. I saw one place we get a 3rd for comp, doubtful, but would trade back into late round 3 for a TE.

Could put names down but it is pointless as players are going to move up and down draft boards until the combine and pro days.
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Offline Pugger

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Re: Matching need to Best Player with first picks
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 07:47:17 AM »
Want to see a big improvement in the Packers defense next season? Hire a new DC. For proof, look no further than the LA Rams. In 2016, they ended the year ranked #23 in defense. This year, #5. So, did they do it through the addition of FA's or through the draft? Lets see. First, here is the Rams FA signings and losses this season: https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/06/02/los-angeles-rams-offseason-grades-free-agency-nfl-draft

There doesn't seem to be a major acquistiion there. So, they must have drafted some real defensive studs, right? Lets look:
http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/33558/los-angeles-rams-2017-draft-picks-analysis-for-every-selection
Looks like they went heavily on offense during the draft, since their first defensive player was their second pick in the third round.

So, why the change in LA defensively? They hired Wade Phillips as their DC. Is there any guarantee the Packers would see a similar turnaround? No. But a new DC could very well bring in new energy, a new attitude, and a fresh look at how to use the players the Packers have now. Sure, draft some guys, and I still would like to add a big time FA defender. But if they don't go big in FA, and with TT that is unlikely (also, they have some guys they're going to want to re-sign), then a re-imagining of the defense from an outsider would be welcome. Someone on here said it seemed likely Vic Fangio would be available if the Bears fire Fox, which seems likely.Great. Snap him up. But if not him, someone else from outside the organization.

And for those who want to say the Rams have significantly better defensive personnel, fine. But the team still took a jump from #23 to #5 in one year with no significant changes except at DC. Effectively same personnel, just a change at the top. I know I'm preaching to the choir on this one, but my main point is that I believe the Packers have the players, for the most part. What they need is better leadership/schemes/plans/looks, whatever you want to call it. Vic at Packers.com always preached "players, not schemes". But if the schemes are stale and predictable, and don't work, time to try something new. So either you blow up the defensive side of the ball and start over, with a few exceptions, or you try new concepts. The Rams chose to go for the second route, and its paid off big. Time for the Packers to follow suit.

Want to be even more depressed/distressed by the defense? Opponents have gotten first downs 80% of the time on fourth down this season. Four times out of five.

I agree the Rams improved with a different DC but that team hasn't been good for a number of years so they drafted 8 first round picks in the past 7 draft - two of these picks were the top 2 picks overall.  And the Rams were also drafting higher in subsequent rounds all these years so they were able to infuse that roster with quality players.  Teams drafting towards the ends of each round don't have the opportunity to acquire these impact players unless they can make a deal and move up.   The Rams also seem to have found a franchise QB during this time so that helped them too.

Offline robertgoulet

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Re: Matching need to Best Player with first picks
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2017, 09:38:12 PM »
Want to see a big improvement in the Packers defense next season? Hire a new DC. For proof, look no further than the LA Rams. In 2016, they ended the year ranked #23 in defense. This year, #5. So, did they do it through the addition of FA's or through the draft? Lets see. First, here is the Rams FA signings and losses this season: https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/06/02/los-angeles-rams-offseason-grades-free-agency-nfl-draft

There doesn't seem to be a major acquistiion there. So, they must have drafted some real defensive studs, right? Lets look:
http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/33558/los-angeles-rams-2017-draft-picks-analysis-for-every-selection
Looks like they went heavily on offense during the draft, since their first defensive player was their second pick in the third round.

So, why the change in LA defensively? They hired Wade Phillips as their DC. Is there any guarantee the Packers would see a similar turnaround? No. But a new DC could very well bring in new energy, a new attitude, and a fresh look at how to use the players the Packers have now. Sure, draft some guys, and I still would like to add a big time FA defender. But if they don't go big in FA, and with TT that is unlikely (also, they have some guys they're going to want to re-sign), then a re-imagining of the defense from an outsider would be welcome. Someone on here said it seemed likely Vic Fangio would be available if the Bears fire Fox, which seems likely.Great. Snap him up. But if not him, someone else from outside the organization.

And for those who want to say the Rams have significantly better defensive personnel, fine. But the team still took a jump from #23 to #5 in one year with no significant changes except at DC. Effectively same personnel, just a change at the top. I know I'm preaching to the choir on this one, but my main point is that I believe the Packers have the players, for the most part. What they need is better leadership/schemes/plans/looks, whatever you want to call it. Vic at Packers.com always preached "players, not schemes". But if the schemes are stale and predictable, and don't work, time to try something new. So either you blow up the defensive side of the ball and start over, with a few exceptions, or you try new concepts. The Rams chose to go for the second route, and its paid off big. Time for the Packers to follow suit.

Want to be even more depressed/distressed by the defense? Opponents have gotten first downs 80% of the time on fourth down this season. Four times out of five.

I agree the Rams improved with a different DC but that team hasn't been good for a number of years so they drafted 8 first round picks in the past 7 draft - two of these picks were the top 2 picks overall.  And the Rams were also drafting higher in subsequent rounds all these years so they were able to infuse that roster with quality players.  Teams drafting towards the ends of each round don't have the opportunity to acquire these impact players unless they can make a deal and move up.   The Rams also seem to have found a franchise QB during this time so that helped them too.
Yes but of all those years and top picks Aaron donald was the only one on defense.

Offline golfman

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Re: Matching need to Best Player with first picks
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2017, 04:03:54 AM »

Yes but of all those years and top picks Aaron donald was the only one on defense.

Not true!

Alec Olgetree, Michael Brockers and Robert Quinn were all 1s round picks still on the team and major contributors.

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Offline The GM

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Re: Matching need to Best Player with first picks
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 11:19:17 AM »
Agree with Ricky on the DC change, (5 years overdue), but they also need to think about WRs.  Defense is important, but so is keeping your franchise QB happy.  Cobb and Nelson are on the downslide.  How will they be in 2019 when Rodgers comes due?  Just sayin.   

Offline robertgoulet

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Re: Matching need to Best Player with first picks
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 12:10:12 PM »

Yes but of all those years and top picks Aaron donald was the only one on defense.

Not true!

Alec Olgetree, Michael Brockers and Robert Quinn were all 1s round picks still on the team and major contributors.
Yes they were first rounders but I thought we were talking top 10. My point is outside of donald I don't think they have any more talent on defense than we do

Offline golfman

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Re: Matching need to Best Player with first picks
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2017, 02:17:25 PM »

Yes but of all those years and top picks Aaron donald was the only one on defense.

Not true!

Alec Olgetree, Michael Brockers and Robert Quinn were all 1s round picks still on the team and major contributors.
Yes they were first rounders but I thought we were talking top 10. My point is outside of donald I don't think they have any more talent on defense than we do

Sorry, I missed that about top 10 ppicks.
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