February 20, 2018, 01:17:25 PM

Author Topic: Irrational exhuberance and what it will take to get to the Super Bowl - A mirror  (Read 629 times)

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Offline PackerJoe

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I get a huge kick reading the pre-Carolina game from the Press Gazette and in listening to some of the fans in the Madison area about what this team needs.  Specifically, the Gazette mentioned going on a Super Bowl run this year and the Madison fans are screaming for the Packers to draft a franchise wide receiver.

Been a Packer fan for 55 years living in the Chicago area, moving to Wisconsin in the near future.  Been around a long time, have seen a lot of things occur in Green Bay, some good some bad.

I also get the opportunity to watch about 150 college games a year and I pay close attention to Packer college games and players, focusing on the following positions, OL, DB’s, LB and receiving group.

Let’s put the irrational exhuberance aside and look in a mirror for one second about the state of 1265 Lombardi!!!

1.   This team ain’t going to any Super Bowl until it fixes it’s middle linebacker/pass rush situation.  I have been highly critical of Martinez, he has come a long way.  Still a pass defense detriment, but improving.  He has given several 3rd and long runs and passes this year, but he had no business on the field in these situations.  (Coaching issue)  We lack severe talent at the LB position and it appears to me that we don’t teach our linebackers how, when or where to blitz.  I know everyone is clamoring for a pass rushing specialist, but this can be done from the LB position.  Going back to a 4-3 would resolve many issues as the current roster and talent is a much better fit for a 4-3.  Sick of seeing QB's sit back there for 10 seconds deciding which wide open receiver I should throw too.  Do we even teach our DL to jump and known down passes?

I solve this problem by most likely moving up into the top 15 of the draft to draft Georgia LB Roquan Smith or  one of the Clemson DL.

2.   This team hasn’t solved it’s TE situation since Jermicheal Finley got hurt.  We had it semi-fixed with Cook last year and we let him go.  Then we brought in a cancer called Micheal Bennett.  He was a team cancer with the Bears and this is well known, not stating anything new here. 

I solve this problem the same way, we will have to move up into Rd. 2 to draft the best TE coming out of the draft in the last ten years, Mark Andrews from Oklahoma.

3.   Green Bay’s Management has to quit making stupid roster mistakes.  Case in point, we keep Barclay on our roster this year.  Don Barclay shouldn’t have been on this roster since day 1, pathethic  back-up OL.  Instead we let JC Tretter go to Cleveland, our best backup OL who can play center, guard or tackle for a couple million more than we paid Barclay.  Well Spriggs, unfortunately goes on IR early and our two starting tackles don’t play because of injury, our franchise QB takes a career ending injury.  Same could be said for retaining Jared Cook, a fine receiving and blocking TE.  I could throw in Casey Hayward as another example.

Paying Perry that high salary was a huge mistake.  Cannot stay healthy and when he is he mails in his performance.  He’s gone after this year.  The decision to bring back Rodgers was a selfish one for this coaching staff to salvage their poor decisions!  You do realize Rodgers with 13 bolts and two plates in his throwing should will be about 75-80% of his throwing strength for the rest of his career.  You do realize if he takes a significant hit, his career as a Packer is over.  In which case we will be spending about 5-6 picks next year to move up to get Rosen(next Rodgers) or Mayfield (next Favre) (my Opinion).  By the way did you watch Barclay against the Bears on Saturday, Div 2 college talent, blown off the ball!  If I’m Mark Murphy TT is gone!

4.   Contrary to drafting all the defensive backs we have, they need to be coached. You don’t play pass defense watching the numbers on the opposing receiver’s jerseys, it requires tackling not slapping to bring an opponent down, etc.  Our DB’s are terrible!  Even the latest additions can play pass defense.  A mirror moment for all the fans here, Morgan Bennett may be the worst safety in football for a lot of reasons.  Can’t tackle, slaps well, gets burnt way too often, can stay on the field due to injury, etc. I don’t know if it’s the scouting staff, the coaching staff or if the opposing coaches are just smarter than our coaches, but we haven’t fixed this problem.

I solve this problem fairly easy by drafting a kid from Utah State way off the radar screen by the name of Jalen Davis. Probably a 3rd or 4th rd guy, hits, watches the QB throw the ball to the defender when he plays corner, great hip movement, excellent jumper (shortish side 5’10”).  For those of you with memories of Craig Newsome from the Super Bowl Years in the nineties, this is Craig Newsomes clone.  I’m not greedy just give me one good cornerback in this draft.  We currently have about five DB’s that are below average on this roster. This guy will be on TV Christmas weekend, watch and learn!

5.   Watched the OL play this year.  Sad, very sad.  At the top of my list and this has been every single game this year, Why is Corey Linsley even on this roster.  Misses assignments, gets blown off the ball by all DL, misses blitzes, cannot run block, cannot pass block, etc.  He needs to go before Rodgers gets killed again! 

I’m drafting a couple guys in RDs 4-6 that have versatility, Austin Corbett C/T from Nevada a four year starter and Piersbacher from Alabama.  Our depth at OL is not that good!

6.   Coaching – Take you back to the 90’s again when Holmgren was coaching and Favre got Hurt.  Who came of the bench?  Pederson and Brunell.  Did they look lost, unprepared, etc.  Hell no, we continued to compete and win with these guys.  McCarthy for all his bragging about developing and prepping QB’s failed miserably and I mean failed miserably on this item. If I was Mark Murphy or any of the five Vice Presidents, McCarthy is terminated for this as well as failing to hold our defensive coordinator accountable for seven lousy years of defense.   The only two coaches I am retaining is Zook and Bennett.

7.   For you Madison fans wanting a franchise WR, yeah there are a couple of real good WR’s that will be available in the 5-7 th rds, Anquan Boldin type that know how to run a route, how to block and how to get open.  I’ll throw out five names for you as we get closer to the draft.  Just my opinion, we have the best WRs corps in the NFL!  We are missing a Boldin type receiver that will knockout  opposing CB’s

We are not that far if Rodgers is at 80%, new coaching will help that.  Accountability for this whole coaching staff, TT and Murphy has been ZILCH!  Was hoping to Bring Dorsey back as this team does need enema!  I'm sitting Rodgers if I'm in charge.  He gets hurt again his career is over!  We'll be giving up about 7 of our 12 picks to move up to get a QB then.  We also have to quit drafting billy bob Joe as a back-up QB.  Kid from Virginia would be a fine addition (Benkertt)

Offline LMG

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    • Where are we?
Moved here as it is mostly Draft related.
If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Online ricky

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Thanks for the rant. It was interesting, and informed me of things I didn't realize. That Favre got hurt and had to be replaced by Pederson and Brunell. I didn't realize that. Can you tell me all the games the backups started once Favre became a starter? I've forgotten. And Linsley sucks as a center? Wow! Thanks for the info- never heard it said by anyone else, anywhere. Where are Scully and Mulder when you need  them? And of course, to keep continuity and reward a HC/GM team that has allowed the team to make the playoffs eight seasons in a row, fire them all! And replace them with... well, who knows? Just fire everyone and let God sort them out! And Tretter made only a bit more than Barclay? Well, Barclay is making $775,000 this year. Tretter signed a three year contract for $16.75 million, with $10 million guaranteed. So, no, Tretter didn't make "a couple million more than Barclay". Besides, Tretter had a hard time staying healthy.

I could go on, but I believe I've made my point. I sincerely hope the rant you posted made you feel better. And I do agree on replacing Capers (Fangio, anyone?), getting some good draftees, but I also want to make a splash in FA with a stud defensive player. Not someone who will develop in a few years, but someone who can make a real difference now. I want Rodgers to have his version of Reggie White.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Online OneTwoSixFive

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........and don't forget no.1 the middle linebacker situation. What situation. The Packers spent a 4th there (Ryan), then another 4th (Martinez), then a 2nd on a big safety/linebacker with speed (J.Jones).

If you want to talk needs, then ILB comes below OLB, CB, WR, TE, S, OG, maybe even below another developmental QB. That's so far down the list you need binoculars to see it.

This whole piece just comes over as an 'annoyed there are no playoffs this year' rant.

As for "Let’s put the irrational exhuberance aside and look in a mirror for one second about the state of 1265 Lombardi!!" I am fine, and my name isn't Lombardi. But seriously, 'irrational exuberance' ? Can you see a straw horse cantering into view............... Points like the one you made about Tretter are already shot down by ricky, so i'll say no more about that.
(ricky) "Personally, I'm putting this in a box, driving a stake through its heart, firing a silver bullet into its (empty) head, nailing it shut, loading it into a rocket and firing it into the sun. "

(Pink Floyd) "Set the controls for the heart of the sun"

Offline PackerJoe

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Respect your opinions, but I'll point out the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again with the same exact results.  If you are happy with going to the playoffs, then fine I'm wrong.  I want to be going to multiple Super Bowls and we are wasting Rodgers.  The bar has not been lifted here on performance and accountability is not there.  McCarthy and Thompson had their chance, otherwise it will be more of the same and that is what I am saying.  Remember it wasn't til we brought in Ron Wolfe that change occurred!


I am fully aware of Favre's game streak.  There were games he was injured and did not finish that Peterson and Brunell did well.  I'll go in my old VHS collection and get some specifics for you. 

Not to belabor another coaching/training failure, who was the coach or trainer that decided Spriggs need to add 30 lbs. this off season.  Spriggs was a highly athletic left tackle at Indiana before joining the Packers.  Puts on 30 lbs. gets slower and gets injured.  Comes back after losing weight and is now playing.  Go figure.

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Respect your opinions, but I'll point out the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again with the same exact results.  If you are happy with going to the playoffs, then fine I'm wrong. 

You talk as though other fans don't want Superbowls. We all want them, every single fan of the Packers wants them - how could it be otherwise ? I don't want the same thing repeated again and again if it doresn't work, why would anyone endorse that ? The issues I had with your original post was in the details that I didn't think were correct, like the pressing need for another ILB or the suggestion that Rodgers arm will never be more than 75-80% of what it was.
(ricky) "Personally, I'm putting this in a box, driving a stake through its heart, firing a silver bullet into its (empty) head, nailing it shut, loading it into a rocket and firing it into the sun. "

(Pink Floyd) "Set the controls for the heart of the sun"

Online ricky

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Respect your opinions, but I'll point out the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again with the same exact results.  If you are happy with going to the playoffs, then fine I'm wrong.  I want to be going to multiple Super Bowls and we are wasting Rodgers.  The bar has not been lifted here on performance and accountability is not there.  McCarthy and Thompson had their chance, otherwise it will be more of the same and that is what I am saying.  Remember it wasn't til we brought in Ron Wolfe that change occurred!

We all want the Packers to go to the SB every year. Really. This is not a view unique to you. But, to play in the SB, you have to make the playoffs. And then win. The Packers won one SB with MM and AR, and made it to the championship game two other times. And I think you're somehow glamorizing Wolf/Holmgren to a greater degree. Wolf was with the team ten years, during which time they went to two SB's, and won one. One more SB than TT and MM, and the same number of SB titles.


I am fully aware of Favre's game streak.  There were games he was injured and did not finish that Peterson and Brunell did well.  I'll go in my old VHS collection and get some specifics for you.

OK, first Brunell. He was with the Packers in 1993 and 1994, then was traded to Jacksonville. He played in two games in 1994, when he completed 12 of 27 passes for a total of 95 yards, and a passer rating of 53.8. Peterson was with the Packers from 1993-98, and 2001-04. In between, he was given a chance to start in Philly (!) and Cleveland, and was terrible. He didn't play in '01, but from '02-'04, he had a total of 43 pass attempts, with 32 completions for a total of 270 yards. Neither he nor Brunell ever started for GB, of course. So, if you want to claim they played well, fine. If they won any games, let me know. Because Hundley won three, and almost pulled off a fourth win.

Not to belabor another coaching/training failure, who was the coach or trainer that decided Spriggs need to add 30 lbs. this off season.  Spriggs was a highly athletic left tackle at Indiana before joining the Packers.  Puts on 30 lbs. gets slower and gets injured.  Comes back after losing weight and is now playing.  Go figure.

Well, this is new. So, Campen in an incompetent OL coach? Because Spriggs,,, whatever. Here, read this. http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/07/06/packers-ol-jason-spriggs-is-bigger-and-stronger-entering-second-year/

And if you truly believe you know better than Campen, fine. Send in your resume. And I looked it up, Spriggs hurt his hanstring. And put on 30 pounds?
Apparently you're reading the wrong bios. Spriggs played at Indiana at 301. He is currently playing at 298.

Finally, a gentle suggestion. Don't challenge a retired guy with lots of time on his hands, and a willingness to prove his points with facts.

"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline PackerJoe

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Ricky,

I unlike you don't have alot of time on my hands as I am going through some extensive chemo at Northwestern. But, some points for you to think about, change, culture and lack of accountability.  Never specifically mentioned Campen, think he is ok at what he has been given and what he has had to juggle with what was taken away.  He is not the problem, if you are asking.

Look at what Tom Coughlin brought about at Jacksonville.  Might be apples and oranges, we can argue that.

We really won't know til September of next year of what problems/issues got fixed.  We will have to wait til then. 

Offline pacman5252

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........and don't forget no.1 the middle linebacker situation. What situation. The Packers spent a 4th there (Ryan), then another 4th (Martinez), then a 2nd on a big safety/linebacker with speed (J.Jones).

If you want to talk needs, then ILB comes below OLB, CB, WR, TE, S, OG, maybe even below another developmental QB. That's so far down the list you need binoculars to see it.

This whole piece just comes over as an 'annoyed there are no playoffs this year' rant.

As for "Let’s put the irrational exhuberance aside and look in a mirror for one second about the state of 1265 Lombardi!!" I am fine, and my name isn't Lombardi. But seriously, 'irrational exuberance' ? Can you see a straw horse cantering into view............... Points like the one you made about Tretter are already shot down by ricky, so i'll say no more about that.

I think we can live with one of Ryan or Martinez on the field but not both. We're at such an athletic disadvantage. Between those 2 guys we have 2 sacks and 1 int (tipped pass at line fluke play, not athletic coverage) this year. In an era of double A gap blitzes, that isn't going to cut it.

Offline pacman5252

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I'll say I don't think it is so doom and gloom right now. I mean we lost a top tier franchise QB. Most teams would crumble in this situation (see the Romo less Boys, Colts without Luck/Manning).

I do think there needs to be some change, especially on D. We've seen struggles for years even though we've spent premium picks on that side of the ball. We've seen players leave and go to the Pro Bowl (Hayward/Hyde).... Capers needs to go, period. We also need to add a few plus athletes to our front 7 who can rush (Edge and another ILB... maybe play Clay inside again). I think the DL is fine between Clark/Daniels and Lowry/Adams.

On O we aren't too far off. AR a whole season fixes problems. We realistically need a starting G to replace Evans. Another plus receiver/TE would be nice too. We solved RB, so shifting Ty back to WR to take wr 3/4 duties is fine.





Online ricky

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Ricky,

I unlike you don't have alot of time on my hands as I am going through some extensive chemo at Northwestern. But, some points for you to think about, change, culture and lack of accountability.  Never specifically mentioned Campen, think he is ok at what he has been given and what he has had to juggle with what was taken away.  He is not the problem, if you are asking.

Look at what Tom Coughlin brought about at Jacksonville.  Might be apples and oranges, we can argue that.

We really won't know til September of next year of what problems/issues got fixed.  We will have to wait til then.

I'm very sorry to hear about your circumstances. Hopefully things will work out for you.Now, on Capers we have a point of absolute agreement. I posted this morning the turnaround in LA once the DC was changed to Wade Phillips. Effectively the same players, but a defensive ranking change from #23 last season to #6 this year. Could the same thing happen if Capers is allowed to leave/fired? I truly believe, yes. I'd still like to see a defensive stud signed in FA, but even if that doesn't happen, its time to let some fresh ideas from outside the organization into the defensive side of the ball. And seriously, take care.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline Pugger

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Ricky,

I unlike you don't have alot of time on my hands as I am going through some extensive chemo at Northwestern. But, some points for you to think about, change, culture and lack of accountability.  Never specifically mentioned Campen, think he is ok at what he has been given and what he has had to juggle with what was taken away.  He is not the problem, if you are asking.

Look at what Tom Coughlin brought about at Jacksonville.  Might be apples and oranges, we can argue that.

We really won't know til September of next year of what problems/issues got fixed.  We will have to wait til then.

I'm very sorry to hear about your circumstances. Hopefully things will work out for you.Now, on Capers we have a point of absolute agreement. I posted this morning the turnaround in LA once the DC was changed to Wade Phillips. Effectively the same players, but a defensive ranking change from #23 last season to #6 this year. Could the same thing happen if Capers is allowed to leave/fired? I truly believe, yes. I'd still like to see a defensive stud signed in FA, but even if that doesn't happen, its time to let some fresh ideas from outside the organization into the defensive side of the ball. And seriously, take care.


What most of us find maddening is this defense isn't getting better and they keep making the same damn mistakes every week.  IMO this is 100% coaching.  Our players are not as dreadful as they appear right now.  Capers has to go but he isn't the only coach who has worn out his welcome.  Some of the defensive assistants can leave along with our WR coach.  It is ridiculous how our guys can't seem to get separation from DBs.  There is a reason why our QBs have to run around back there most of the time.   :P

Offline OnaBadger58

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Here is a couple of stats that show why this team hasn't reached the Super Bowl:

Zach Kruse
@zachkruse2

#Packers have allowed 58 passing touchdowns since the start of 2016. The only team that has allowed more? The Browns (63).

Same goes for passer rating. #Packers have allowed an opposing passer rating of 98.0 since the start of 2016. Second highest in NFL. The Browns are last at 102.2.

Ben Fennell‏
@BenFennell_NFL

#Packers Defense. ☠️

3rd Down Completion %: 69.0% (32nd)
3rd Down Conversions: 44.8% (30th)

Scoring Efficiency: 40.3% (31st)
TD Efficiency: 23.5% (32nd)

RZ Scoring Efficiency: 100% (32nd)
RZ TD Efficiency: 69.2% (31st)

5 Minute Drives: 26 (T-32nd)
10 Play Drives: 30 (30th)

7:53 AM - 18 Dec 2017



This area needs to be fixed. Whether it's coaching changes or personnel changes, this is the clear weakness.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 07:50:30 AM by OnaBadger58 »