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Author Topic: What changes to the roster would you like too see  (Read 2817 times)

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Offline Scott1956

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What changes to the roster would you like too see
« on: January 15, 2018, 10:26:03 PM »
I would like too see CMIII either put at ILB, or released. His production doesn't come close to his contract. I'm thinking that Jordy Nelson will have to be released. He's lost a step or two, and we can't have 3 $10 million dollar WR's. I think it's time to release Bulaga. He's had 3 serious injuries, and as good as he's played, he's getting slower. The old adage "better one year early than one year late" was made for Bulaga. If they could find a team to take Perry, do it. These are just the subtractions. They really could save lots of money that way. Now, for the additions I would like to see. An actual speed burner at WR. Someone the defense has to account for, every play. That would open up both the passing and running game. Need a Guard and Tackle that are actual run blockers. I know they have to be able to pass block, but being able to run on 3rd or 4th and 1, and make it would be great for a change. Speed! Speed! On defense, LB's that can run and actually cover someone. And draft a couple of players from Alabama or LSU because they know how to tackle. A TE that can stretch the middle of the field. This roster needs players. Losing Rodgers for most of the year showed that this team is lacking talent. I think that's enough for starters.

Offline Pugger

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 12:31:44 AM »
Until Gutey drafts/signs an EDGE player why would you want to dump Clay and not see what Pettine can do with him?  Let's say we let him walk.  He's gonna get more the $11M out there in FA and if we sign a vet FA that guy is gonna demand more than what we are paying CMIII right now anyway.  I'd keep Clay - he wasn't terrible last year - and draft an EDGE guy this spring.

Unless we draft a WR any FA WR worth his salt is gonna cost what we are paying Jordy and/or Cobb.  Unless this FA WR is substantially better/faster why make a change when these 2 have good chemistry with #12? 

Are we really comfortable with one of our backup tackles taking over full time for Bulaga?  I doubt we'll draft another tackle after we moved up to take Spriggs.

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 03:00:07 AM »
Until Gutey drafts/signs an EDGE player why would you want to dump Clay and not see what Pettine can do with him?  Let's say we let him walk.  He's gonna get more the $11M out there in FA and if we sign a vet FA that guy is gonna demand more than what we are paying CMIII right now anyway.  I'd keep Clay - he wasn't terrible last year - and draft an EDGE guy this spring.

Unless we draft a WR any FA WR worth his salt is gonna cost what we are paying Jordy and/or Cobb.  Unless this FA WR is substantially better/faster why make a change when these 2 have good chemistry with #12? 

Are we really comfortable with one of our backup tackles taking over full time for Bulaga?  I doubt we'll draft another tackle after we moved up to take Spriggs.

When you think how wide reaching and deep, the changes in coaching and executives are, it would be strange if they then did nothing much on the roster. So if we are talking stay or go with some of the bigger contracts, I'd lean more toward at least one or two of them going.

On offense, it starts with Montgomery. I believe he is much more a RB than a WR, so no move to slot receiver for him. That means Cobb stays on in the slot.......and THAT means that since the Packers cannot pay getting up toward $40m for three WRs, the one with the short straw is the oldest, Jordy Nelson. I can almost hear the argument, "Why not use Jordy in the slot ?". The answer is age. Cobb will be 28 before the start of the 2018 season, Nelson will be 33, and 5 years is a BIG difference. The contracts of both Cobb and Nelson run out in 2018.

Jordy has seen the writing on the wall, he knows the Packers have to cut the top three WR's bill, and has said he is open to renegotiation, but his being retained really depends on the new contract size. I don't know at what price point his contract is viable for another year, but he may have value staying for 2018, coupled with a high draft pick (1st or 2nd round), because receivers seldom shine as a rookie. My opinion on whether Jordy stays or not in 2018 varies from moment to moment, I just don't know. Whatever the result, a high draft pick at WR is close to a lock, and it is quite possible the receiver position is further made over after 2018, as Cobbs contract runs out then. He is never going to get another $12m pa contract. Because of that, he has little incentive to renegotiate in the early to mid season for much less. It is probably hello to FA for him, at the end of 2018, which means he could stay or go, depending on offers.

On defense, It has become equally obvious that Clay Matthews is NOT willing to renegotiate. I believe that despite the Packers missing his play, they will not miss it enough to live with a $11m+ contract in 2018. Pretty much everyone has realised the Packers are in dire need of another quality pass rusher. I think a first round draft pick will be spent there, because top pass rushers seldom last past the first round. In 2018 the Packers pretty much have to live with Perry, Biegel, Gilbert (maybe Brooks and Fackrell as well) to go with that high draft pick. There is no recourse to veteran free agency here, because there is no-one with real talent available (unless  you want mega character risk, Aldon Smith).

The first two draft picks are almost mandated in my opinion. The Packers could go elsewhere, but that leaves big holes to fill at OLB and WR. It is just possible that the Packers like a flanker type WR that they can get in round three (and go, say CB in round 2 instead), but my guess is round two.

My next two picks  (hopefully a third and a third comp pick), could well be used to fill the void at TE and CB. I'm hoping the need at CB is temporarily filled by a veteran (and unlike pass rusher, there are credible veteran options). I'd still like a CB somewhere in round three to go with the TE.

After round three of the draft, I'd look at a second TE, if a good prospect is there, a T/G, S, backup QB, maybe another RB. With as many picks as the Packers have, you can add a lot of depth mixed with several development projects.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 03:04:12 AM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline Hands

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 06:01:57 AM »
CMIII stays at OLB until a suitable replacement is found. Looking at the roster, there's nobody to take his place. Before next season is over, would love to see him and Martinez as the ILB starters. The problem is whoever the Packers pick as an edge rusher...they won't start or perform right away so unless they get a FA that can rush the passer (they grow on trees so shouldn't be an issue) I see Martinez/Ryan-Thomas inside and CMIII and Perry outside.
If the Packers pick up a FA that's starting quality CB then they can address that position later in the draft. If not, then it remains a priority.
Dline and safety seems to have the depth they need. So if they go looking for players, pass rusher and CB should top the list for FA for defense.

Ofense, I actually think the Oline is OK. They may PUP Bulaga and maybe sit him on IR for the season. He's a close if not Pro Bowl quality OT and they will need him on their team. Taking his place will be Murphy and Spriggs. Both are getting better and stronger. The biggest question mark I have is that right guard. Can McCray/Patrick become starters? I think the Packers were lucky with Evans...but wouldn't push that luck too much. Besides he may lose out to those young bucks anyway. I think they have enough depth unless injuries hit one position like last year.
Wide-outs are very hard to review because until Rodgers went down...they were pretty good. I agree that Jordy/Cobb need to redo their contracts. Also believe that new blood needs to brought in through FA. Draft picks won't contribute until two-three years in Green Bay's system. So a possible FA type at WR and include the TE position as well. TE is the weakest position the Packers have in my opinion.

So the team needs to be active in the FA market and pick-up a pass rusher (probably not possible) starter quality for the CB position(very expensive and doubt it happens), and an experienced WR and TE. Those two are probably the most likely to happen.

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Offline Pack Da Bomb

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 07:39:53 AM »
First I’ll start with Perry and Bulaga won’t be cut or released as that would be a huge cap hit.

On offense- With the emergence of the two rookie RBs and Philbin coming back Monty will be used better and more in the slot and Nelson will restructure ( back up for both slot and boundary WR) and Cobb won’t so he’s gone and the slot is more easily replaced too. Draft a WR and TE early and OL in the middle to late rounds. Free agency go after TE Eifert and a serviceable vet QB. Possibly OL if not liking what McCray, Patrick, Murphy, and Spriggs look like at OTAs.

On defense- Clay has to go! Or restructure to half of want he’s due to make. It’s as important as Capers leaving! If you want him at his cap hit next year and were remotely hard on MM for his Capers loyalty. This is pretty much the same. As of now Clay would be the 8th highest paid OLB and if moved inside 4th highest paid. Only 5 ILB make over 10 million would be 6 with Clay if moved back there. He’s not worth that! If some other team wants to overpay him. Let them and have them take the cap hit. Hurt the competition and not us anymore The Packers have for years and it’s one of the main things that has crippled the defense. He was being paid to be a impact player and pass rush stud and he hasn’t been that for years now. I’m extremely not scared of life or what the defense might look like without Clay. He’s often injured anyway plus what his production has been is replaceable at his price/ current contract. There are serviceable LBs for 3-5 million dollar range without much if any drop off plus then you could have depth with two over the one overpaid, often sidelined Clay.
Draft a early pass rusher and CB. Problem is Packers need both a pass rushing stud and true number 1 corner both go really fast in the draft and free agency doesn’t have much and then expensive too.  Look to add FA or two at OLB. Try to bring back House and Dial, also see what Burnett is asking and getting offered but looking to stay team friendly/ reasonable contract. 

Offline Pugger

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 09:25:02 AM »
Until Gutey drafts/signs an EDGE player why would you want to dump Clay and not see what Pettine can do with him?  Let's say we let him walk.  He's gonna get more the $11M out there in FA and if we sign a vet FA that guy is gonna demand more than what we are paying CMIII right now anyway.  I'd keep Clay - he wasn't terrible last year - and draft an EDGE guy this spring.

Unless we draft a WR any FA WR worth his salt is gonna cost what we are paying Jordy and/or Cobb.  Unless this FA WR is substantially better/faster why make a change when these 2 have good chemistry with #12? 

Are we really comfortable with one of our backup tackles taking over full time for Bulaga?  I doubt we'll draft another tackle after we moved up to take Spriggs.

When you think how wide reaching and deep, the changes in coaching and executives are, it would be strange if they then did nothing much on the roster. So if we are talking stay or go with some of the bigger contracts, I'd lean more toward at least one or two of them going.

On offense, it starts with Montgomery. I believe he is much more a RB than a WR, so no move to slot receiver for him. That means Cobb stays on in the slot.......and THAT means that since the Packers cannot pay getting up toward $40m for three WRs, the one with the short straw is the oldest, Jordy Nelson. I can almost hear the argument, "Why not use Jordy in the slot ?". The answer is age. Cobb will be 28 before the start of the 2018 season, Nelson will be 33, and 5 years is a BIG difference. The contracts of both Cobb and Nelson run out in 2018.

Jordy has seen the writing on the wall, he knows the Packers have to cut the top three WR's bill, and has said he is open to renegotiation, but his being retained really depends on the new contract size. I don't know at what price point his contract is viable for another year, but he may have value staying for 2018, coupled with a high draft pick (1st or 2nd round), because receivers seldom shine as a rookie. My opinion on whether Jordy stays or not in 2018 varies from moment to moment, I just don't know. Whatever the result, a high draft pick at WR is close to a lock, and it is quite possible the receiver position is further made over after 2018, as Cobbs contract runs out then. He is never going to get another $12m pa contract. Because of that, he has little incentive to renegotiate in the early to mid season for much less. It is probably hello to FA for him, at the end of 2018, which means he could stay or go, depending on offers.

On defense, It has become equally obvious that Clay Matthews is NOT willing to renegotiate. I believe that despite the Packers missing his play, they will not miss it enough to live with a $11m+ contract in 2018. Pretty much everyone has realised the Packers are in dire need of another quality pass rusher. I think a first round draft pick will be spent there, because top pass rushers seldom last past the first round. In 2018 the Packers pretty much have to live with Perry, Biegel, Gilbert (maybe Brooks and Fackrell as well) to go with that high draft pick. There is no recourse to veteran free agency here, because there is no-one with real talent available (unless  you want mega character risk, Aldon Smith).

The first two draft picks are almost mandated in my opinion. The Packers could go elsewhere, but that leaves big holes to fill at OLB and WR. It is just possible that the Packers like a flanker type WR that they can get in round three (and go, say CB in round 2 instead), but my guess is round two.

My next two picks  (hopefully a third and a third comp pick), could well be used to fill the void at TE and CB. I'm hoping the need at CB is temporarily filled by a veteran (and unlike pass rusher, there are credible veteran options). I'd still like a CB somewhere in round three to go with the TE.

After round three of the draft, I'd look at a second TE, if a good prospect is there, a T/G, S, backup QB, maybe another RB. With as many picks as the Packers have, you can add a lot of depth mixed with several development projects.

I'd only cut Jordy, Cobb and/or Clay if we had an upgrade in FA and/or the draft.

I agree, TE is the only real big need on offense.  Kendricks has been a disappointment and RichRod is too damn slow.

Offline Pugger

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 09:29:45 AM »
CMIII stays at OLB until a suitable replacement is found. Looking at the roster, there's nobody to take his place. Before next season is over, would love to see him and Martinez as the ILB starters. The problem is whoever the Packers pick as an edge rusher...they won't start or perform right away so unless they get a FA that can rush the passer (they grow on trees so shouldn't be an issue) I see Martinez/Ryan-Thomas inside and CMIII and Perry outside.
If the Packers pick up a FA that's starting quality CB then they can address that position later in the draft. If not, then it remains a priority.
Dline and safety seems to have the depth they need. So if they go looking for players, pass rusher and CB should top the list for FA for defense.

Ofense, I actually think the Oline is OK. They may PUP Bulaga and maybe sit him on IR for the season. He's a close if not Pro Bowl quality OT and they will need him on their team. Taking his place will be Murphy and Spriggs. Both are getting better and stronger. The biggest question mark I have is that right guard. Can McCray/Patrick become starters? I think the Packers were lucky with Evans...but wouldn't push that luck too much. Besides he may lose out to those young bucks anyway. I think they have enough depth unless injuries hit one position like last year.
Wide-outs are very hard to review because until Rodgers went down...they were pretty good. I agree that Jordy/Cobb need to redo their contracts. Also believe that new blood needs to brought in through FA. Draft picks won't contribute until two-three years in Green Bay's system. So a possible FA type at WR and include the TE position as well. TE is the weakest position the Packers have in my opinion.

So the team needs to be active in the FA market and pick-up a pass rusher (probably not possible) starter quality for the CB position(very expensive and doubt it happens), and an experienced WR and TE. Those two are probably the most likely to happen.

Exactly.  Unless the FA guy is much better than Clay - and most teams hang onto their decent pass rushers - the new guy is gonna cost us a lot more than what we would be paying CM3.

Offline SSGCujo

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 10:07:32 AM »
 Jordy needs to take a pay-cut to stay, Cobb needs to restructure his contract. Matthews' contract will be restructured. Bulaga isn't a FA until 2020, so cutting him will be a big cap hit. Spriggs will be back for the start of camp, but is he the answer? McCray will take Evans' spot, who started to lose it at the end of the year. Murphy wasn't that good, but can he improve? It looks like a tackle will be needed, probably in the draft. TE needs to be upgraded, the only one under contract is Kendricks, who isn't a starter. I expect a FA and one or two drafted. There's some good ones in the draft. I'm sure a lot of people want Graham, but he'll break the bank. Eifert has had back problems, but may come cheap, Burton has upside, but Philly will try to keep him. Also, Brate is a RFA, but TB can match offers, and may offer a 2nd round comp. WR is another spot that needs an upgrade. Speed should be the #1 thing to look at. Packer receivers were rated at the bottom for speed in the league. I would think this will come in the draft. The team also needs another backup at QB, I just can't see Hundley as the only option. The defense needs an edge rusher, or two, there isn't many in FA, so the draft is where they'll come from. CB is an area that needs help, also. There are some OK FAs, but how much will they spend? The other options are trades and seeing who gets cut from other teams. It will get interesting.

Offline Pugger

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 10:12:36 AM »
Jordy needs to take a pay-cut to stay, Cobb needs to restructure his contract. Matthews' contract will be restructured. Bulaga isn't a FA until 2020, so cutting him will be a big cap hit. Spriggs will be back for the start of camp, but is he the answer? McCray will take Evans' spot, who started to lose it at the end of the year. Murphy wasn't that good, but can he improve? It looks like a tackle will be needed, probably in the draft. TE needs to be upgraded, the only one under contract is Kendricks, who isn't a starter. I expect a FA and one or two drafted. There's some good ones in the draft. I'm sure a lot of people want Graham, but he'll break the bank. Eifert has had back problems, but may come cheap, Burton has upside, but Philly will try to keep him. Also, Brate is a RFA, but TB can match offers, and may offer a 2nd round comp. WR is another spot that needs an upgrade. Speed should be the #1 thing to look at. Packer receivers were rated at the bottom for speed in the league. I would think this will come in the draft. The team also needs another backup at QB, I just can't see Hundley as the only option. The defense needs an edge rusher, or two, there isn't many in FA, so the draft is where they'll come from. CB is an area that needs help, also. There are some OK FAs, but how much will they spend? The other options are trades and seeing who gets cut from other teams. It will get interesting.

What if the 3 guys you all want to take a cut or restructure decline?  I can't see them doing so out of the goodness of their hearts and I wouldn't blame them.  They will then either ask to be traded or will walk.  If this happens Gutey better get some good FAs and draft picks.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:13:28 AM by Pugger »

Offline SSGCujo

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 11:32:17 AM »
 If Jordy doesn't take a paycut, you let him go. Clay and Cobb, you make the restructure good for them and the team, moneywise.

Offline craig

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 11:47:02 AM »
Excuse the ignorance here, but how soon do you need to release vets to get out from their $$?  Can you wait until after the draft and after FA has already kicked in? 

The concept is that the three vets are all overpaid.  **IF** you think you can get comparable or better production for less money, then it makes sense to release and replace.  That's kind of a case-by-case question.  The scouts may figure there's a guy they like who can do what Clay does only a little better, who's a little younger, and who they can get for $32/4 and have some years of club control.  If so, maybe you make the move.  But if there is no better-value replacement available, and releasing just means unspent cap and a lot more Fackrell-caliber snaps, and that you've making an already weak group even weaker, then no. 

If there's a receiver who's interested in being a starter on an Aaron Rodgers offense, who's available for $16/3, and who the scouts think is better/quicker/faster//more-elusive/better-hands than Jordy or Cobb, then of course go with the new guy.  But if you're just weakening OLB and WR, two of the already three weakest positions (corner being 3rd), and the money saved can't be used to actually improve those weakest position, where's the gain?  If releasing Cobb and Jordy results in Allison and Davis picking up those snaps at an even lesser level, where's the gain? 

I totally get the big-picture logic of clearing the money and reinvesting it more effectively.  I'm just not sure how easy that will be to find actual guys who will play better for less money at the positions where we need them. 

Offline SSGCujo

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2018, 11:53:27 AM »
 Jordy has lost a step. It reminds me of A. Freeman when he lost a step. I would rather keep Matthews and Cobb.

Offline heikks86

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 01:51:54 PM »
Excuse the ignorance here, but how soon do you need to release vets to get out from their $$?  Can you wait until after the draft and after FA has already kicked in? 

The concept is that the three vets are all overpaid.  **IF** you think you can get comparable or better production for less money, then it makes sense to release and replace.  That's kind of a case-by-case question.  The scouts may figure there's a guy they like who can do what Clay does only a little better, who's a little younger, and who they can get for $32/4 and have some years of club control.  If so, maybe you make the move.  But if there is no better-value replacement available, and releasing just means unspent cap and a lot more Fackrell-caliber snaps, and that you've making an already weak group even weaker, then no. 

If there's a receiver who's interested in being a starter on an Aaron Rodgers offense, who's available for $16/3, and who the scouts think is better/quicker/faster//more-elusive/better-hands than Jordy or Cobb, then of course go with the new guy.  But if you're just weakening OLB and WR, two of the already three weakest positions (corner being 3rd), and the money saved can't be used to actually improve those weakest position, where's the gain?  If releasing Cobb and Jordy results in Allison and Davis picking up those snaps at an even lesser level, where's the gain? 

I totally get the big-picture logic of clearing the money and reinvesting it more effectively.  I'm just not sure how easy that will be to find actual guys who will play better for less money at the positions where we need them.

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Offline BIG LEGEND

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 06:58:41 PM »
We all know the defensive needs - lots. I do believe WR and TE are big needs. This WR group needs more speed and explosiveness. With a QB like AR, this position group should always be looked at. You have to get your future hall of famer the toys needed to take advantage of all his skills, and this unit doesn't do it. We have been talking about it for a few seasons now, these guys struggle to get open

Offline scoremore

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Re: What changes to the roster would you like too see
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2018, 07:08:19 PM »
Think more of the Packers than some.  A lot of talent on the team.  TE is by far the weakest position.  So would like to add one here.  However another option is to use Michael Clark as a joker TE.  Coach the kid up and we might have one.  Regardless we need to take a TE.  Everyone is assuming we go Edge with our first pick.  Dunno that is not written is stone.  Pack could also go WR G/T or CB.  If the right QB was there they could draft their QB of the future.

We need to upgrade the pass rush.  It's time to draft another quality receiver.  QB is the most important position.

Aaron is getting older is coming off of a serious injury.  We need a quality back up.  I don't want to see Hundley again.  It's a real deep class we need to upgrade there.  No one expects the Packers to take a QB in round 1.  If one of the top guys on their board drops to them it'd be shrewd to draft him.

So in short the 4 positions I want to see upgraded are: TE, QB, WR, and DE.  As for the draft best to just go BPA regardless of position.  Let the chips fall where the may and try to supplement through FA. 

« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 07:09:43 PM by scoremore »