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General Category => Green Bay Packers News Talk => Topic started by: RT on May 22, 2018, 09:55:56 AM

Title: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 22, 2018, 09:55:56 AM
Wes Hodkiewicz

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Kyle Murphy and Jason Spriggs both practicing #Packers

I've had little doubt that both would be back early from the injuries they had last season, good to see this confirmed.

Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 22, 2018, 09:57:20 AM

Wes Hodkiewicz

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Kevin King and Quentin Rollins out with the DBs for team tackling #Packers

Kentrell Brice and Herb Waters also practicing. I think that’s all of the #Packers DBs who ended last year on IR.

Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 22, 2018, 10:05:41 AM

Rob Demovsky

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Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Tramon Williams are the only non-injured players missing from the Packers OTA on Tuesday.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on May 22, 2018, 10:45:39 AM
Thanks for collecting and sharing these, RT.   Nice to get the favorable injury stuff on the secondary and OL guys.   
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 22, 2018, 10:53:03 AM
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Granted, this isn’t a padded practice, but not taking long for #Packers QB Aaron Rodgers and Jimmy Graham to find a rhythm. Rodgers hit Graham over the middle vs. Lenzy Pipkins on one rep, and deep down left sideline behind Jake Ryan on another.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 22, 2018, 11:33:21 AM
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DNP for the #Packers:

Trevor Davis (hamstring)
Davante Adams (hamstring)
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (not injured)
Tramon Williams (not injured)
Clay Matthews (knee)
Nick Perry (ankle)
Lane Taylor (ankle)
Bryan Bulaga (knee)
Emanuel Byrd (hamstring)
Colby Pearson (hamstring)


The more things change, the more things stay the same. Some guys just look at the practice field and they are injured.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 22, 2018, 11:36:04 AM

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No team reps for Kevin Kng today as he recovers from shoulder surgery. Jason Spriggs, Kyle Murphy (and Adam Pankey) rotated at RT in at RT in team reps.

Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: dannobanano on May 22, 2018, 12:21:17 PM

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No team reps for Kevin Kng today as he recovers from shoulder surgery. Jason Spriggs, Kyle Murphy (and Adam Pankey) rotated at RT in at RT in team reps.

Well, well, well.................an Adam Pankey sighting!  ;D
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: dannobanano on May 22, 2018, 12:25:58 PM
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DNP for the #Packers:

Trevor Davis (hamstring)
Davante Adams (hamstring)........I hope this isn't a smoke screen for lingering issues from his concussions.
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (not injured)
Tramon Williams (not injured)
Clay Matthews (knee)........had off season knee scope to clean up some junk. Precautionary.
Nick Perry (ankle).........had a late season ankle issue that maybe they want to be cautious with this as well.
Lane Taylor (ankle)...........played through an ankle issue for a large chunk of last season, so, also, maybe just a precaution.
Bryan Bulaga (knee)
Emanuel Byrd (hamstring)
Colby Pearson (hamstring)


The more things change, the more things stay the same. Some guys just look at the practice field and they are injured.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ricky on May 22, 2018, 02:27:55 PM
The more things change, the more things stay the same. Some guys just look at the practice field and they are injured.

That's a bit harsh, IMO. These are OTA's, and the Packers are going to be very careful about any perceived "nicks and bumps" because there is no reason to push at this time. If this were the regular season, you can bet every one of those guys would be suited up and ready to play.

On the plus side, thanks for amassing all this stuff in one place for us to consider.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: The GM on May 22, 2018, 05:14:55 PM
The more things change, the more things stay the same. Some guys just look at the practice field and they are injured.

That's a bit harsh, IMO. These are OTA's, and the Packers are going to be very careful about any perceived "nicks and bumps" because there is no reason to push at this time. If this were the regular season, you can bet every one of those guys would be suited up and ready to play.

On the plus side, thanks for amassing all this stuff in one place for us to consider.

Agree, but some players have different agenda's.  The undrafted rookie may have a need to "push it" more than the proven vet.  Things can get a little chippy  if/when that happens.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 23, 2018, 05:15:04 AM
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#Packers WR coach David Raih adamant Randall Cobb has plenty left to offer: "I just think there's a lot of football left in Randall Cobb. This guy, he's one of the most tenacious people I've been around."

What will be hilarious is watching all the heads exploding allover the dairyland if the Packers sign him to a new contract after the season.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 23, 2018, 05:19:51 AM
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#Packers OL coach James Campen says Justin McCray "lived here" over the offseason, constantly working out. Campen sees a lot of potential. "I think you just saw the tip of what Justin will be."

I think that it is safe to say that the Packers are pretty confident in the ability of McCray to fill the starting RG spot for the 2018 season.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 23, 2018, 05:21:22 AM
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James Campen sounds really, really confident in Justin McCray.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: Hands on May 23, 2018, 06:08:47 AM
No mention of Amichia, wonder if hurt or not impressive...
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 23, 2018, 06:34:32 AM
No mention of Amichia, wonder if hurt or not impressive...

Last year after the draft I watched a piece by Lance Zierlein breaking down Amichia and the one thing that stuck with me was that he said that Amichia spent a lot of time on the ground for an OLineman. Dispite his off the charts athleticism, he may just not be a good football player. I don't blame the Packers for taking a chance on a top athlete at the end of the 6th round, sometimes a team hits and sometimes they miss. Their is still hope that he is putting it all together after a full offseason program, but he is at the show me something stage this training camp. IMO

 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 23, 2018, 06:44:17 AM
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Stash this away for camp: Aaron Rodgers brought up CB Demetri Goodson unprompted on Tuesday. "He's made some plays already during the two days (of OTAs)."

Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: Hands on May 23, 2018, 07:06:04 AM
Goodson would be a very good surprise.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: Twain on May 23, 2018, 08:05:30 AM
It feels like this is the first year in a long time that there is good depth and competition in the cornerback group.

No one has proven themselves as a top talent, but we will enter camp with fierce competition to earn a spot, and that should result in better performance from the group.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on May 23, 2018, 08:26:08 AM
...
#Packers OL coach James Campen says Justin McCray "lived here" over the offseason, constantly working out. Campen sees a lot of potential. "I think you just saw the tip of what Justin will be."....

I think combine stuff emphasizes quickness and speed so much.  But for o-line, pure strength is so huge.  Lane Taylor is really strong, and that has helped him super much.  Spriggs had the wonderful 3-cones and vertical jumps and stuff, but thus far has been so acutely lacking in power.  And the short, choppy active feet that o-line guys are actually using, the small subtle foot-chops to maintain leverage angles, I'm not sure that's super-well represented by 3-cones.  (Maybe it is, but I'm not sure....) 

I'm hoping that might apply to Madison.  HIs combine measurables were pretty mediocre.  But even if his 3-cone wasn't good, I'm still hopeful that his footwork and balance are so good that he'll be a winner.  And that after a couple of off-seasons, that he'll be suitably powerful besides. 

McCray is really strong, I think, and what sounds like a really committed "living here" offseason might suggest he'll be even more strong and powerful this season.  He and Taylor will almost certainly be the strongest, most powerful guys on the line.  Linsley is kind of too short to be dominant physically, but he's really strong too, and well able to leverage.  He's not going to just drive-block Raji-sized guys 3 yards off the line, but he's pretty powerful nonetheless.  It's kind of interesting to consider the possibility of having an interior line that might be very physical and able to move people in the run game.  Might perhaps have a better short-yardage drive-blocking group inside than we've had? 

I do have a little hesitation, though.  Coaches love high-effort, committed guys who live in the offseason weight-room.  But that effort and commitment and weight-room strength doesn't always overcome athletic limits.  Sometimes guys who aren't as committed and don't listen to coaching quite as well still end up being superior players; just because superior raw talent can often beat higher-effort coach-favorites.   Hope McCray has the talent and balance and quickness so that his weight-room effort really makes him good. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: dannobanano on May 23, 2018, 01:21:03 PM
No mention of Amichia, wonder if hurt or not impressive...

Last year after the draft I watched a piece by Lance Zierlein breaking down Amichia and the one thing that stuck with me was that he said that Amichia spent a lot of time on the ground for an OLineman. Dispite his off the charts athleticism, he may just not be a good football player. I don't blame the Packers for taking a chance on a top athlete at the end of the 6th round, sometimes a team hits and sometimes they miss. Their is still hope that he is putting it all together after a full offseason program, but he is at the show me something stage this training camp. IMO

 

Amichia was supposed to become the primary backup at Center, and a swing Guard, but his shortcomings could be why GB signed Austin Davis (udfa), who is a Center (first) and may be able to grow into a backup Guard spot.

I still haven't ruled out Cole Madison as a candidate for the RT spot. He has proven himself on the big stage, and as one of the better RT's in D-1 football. Plus, he has the "heart" to go get it. He was a vocal tough guy enforcer for WSU. I'm just not ready to rule him out at RT.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ThatGuy284 on May 23, 2018, 02:11:57 PM
That seems a prudent decision danno....seeing as it's May 23rd, the third day of the first OTA and they are all wearing gym shorts.   The only one I've safely ruled out at any position is Mokofisi.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 24, 2018, 05:48:13 AM
No mention of Amichia, wonder if hurt or not impressive...

Last year after the draft I watched a piece by Lance Zierlein breaking down Amichia and the one thing that stuck with me was that he said that Amichia spent a lot of time on the ground for an OLineman. Dispite his off the charts athleticism, he may just not be a good football player. I don't blame the Packers for taking a chance on a top athlete at the end of the 6th round, sometimes a team hits and sometimes they miss. Their is still hope that he is putting it all together after a full offseason program, but he is at the show me something stage this training camp. IMO

 

Amichia was supposed to become the primary backup at Center, and a swing Guard, but his shortcomings could be why GB signed Austin Davis (udfa), who is a Center (first) and may be able to grow into a backup Guard spot.

I still haven't ruled out Cole Madison as a candidate for the RT spot. He has proven himself on the big stage, and as one of the better RT's in D-1 football. Plus, he has the "heart" to go get it. He was a vocal tough guy enforcer for WSU. I'm just not ready to rule him out at RT.

The interior OL spots should be a competitive battle. In the end Lucas Patrick, Kofi Amichia, Dillon Day, Jacob Alsadek and Austin Davis may well all be battling for one spot on the 53. Patrick is the early favorite, but it would not surprise to see anyone of them endup the victor. Dillon Day may well be a sleeper here, The Packers grabbed him off Denver's PS late in the year to bring him to training camp this year. They liked something they saw in him.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on May 24, 2018, 12:05:34 PM
All five of those guys are still PS-eligible, Patrick included.  I'd think the new undrafted rookies are probably more competing for a 63-man spot than a 53-man spot, unless one of them looks just shockingly good. 

I'm not in camp, but I'm guessing Patrick has the edge.  He's already shown he's pretty functional at guard, and I assume he's had two years to practice some center-snaps.  *IF* he can play center well enough to fill in for a couple of quarters, I like his odds over the other guys.  But, who knows. 

Q:  MM usually only game-days 2 backup OL, right?  If the interior backup is responsible for covering three different positions, he might not necessarily be the best backup at all three. 

For example, maybe Patrick is the best backup at both guard spots, but Day or Davis or Amichia is actually a better backup at center.  In that case, Patrick may still be the Game-Day active, and need to fill in at center for a few quarters of Linsley gets injured.  But, by the next Sunday, the best backup center, who was previously stored on PS or inactive, can get promoted to GameDay and can start.  So, you don't even necessarily need to have backup center even on the 53, much less on the Game Day. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 24, 2018, 05:41:26 PM
All five of those guys are still PS-eligible, Patrick included.  I'd think the new undrafted rookies are probably more competing for a 63-man spot than a 53-man spot, unless one of them looks just shockingly good. 

I'm not in camp, but I'm guessing Patrick has the edge.  He's already shown he's pretty functional at guard, and I assume he's had two years to practice some center-snaps.  *IF* he can play center well enough to fill in for a couple of quarters, I like his odds over the other guys.  But, who knows. 

Q:  MM usually only game-days 2 backup OL, right?  If the interior backup is responsible for covering three different positions, he might not necessarily be the best backup at all three. 

For example, maybe Patrick is the best backup at both guard spots, but Day or Davis or Amichia is actually a better backup at center.  In that case, Patrick may still be the Game-Day active, and need to fill in at center for a few quarters of Linsley gets injured.  But, by the next Sunday, the best backup center, who was previously stored on PS or inactive, can get promoted to GameDay and can start.  So, you don't even necessarily need to have backup center even on the 53, much less on the Game Day.

I think you are over thinking the gameday actives. Their is enough interchangable parts that unless their are multiple injuries in one given game it really shouldn't matter. Keep the best 53 and whichever OL are in that group, play the best 7 that are healthy. As for a true backup center on the 53? Doesn't have to be, wasn't a true backup center on the 53 most of last season. BPA regardless of position.   
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on May 24, 2018, 08:53:50 PM
Yeah, I respectfully disagree on this, I think, at least as regards center.   I think you're oversimplifying, as regards center. 

Snapping and transitioning from the snap position into blocking position is physiologically kinda different, and is also something of a developed skill.  So I don't really assume that if 6 and 7 are better than 8 at tackle and guard, that they're also necessarily better than 8 at center.  Not sure that you can just plug in Spriggs or Murphy at center. 

I would think that of the Patrick, Amichia, Day, Alsadek and Davis pentet, if better is simply interchangeably better and the best guard is necessarily the best center as well, that would be really good for Patrick.  And good for the Packers.  I think he's shown himself to be perfectly serviceable as a backup guard; so if that also means he'd be perfectly serviceable as a backup center as well, that's good news for us!  And if it turns out that one of the other guys is even better than perfectly serviceable, that's even better news for the Packers. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 25, 2018, 06:06:11 AM
Yeah, I respectfully disagree on this, I think, at least as regards center.   I think you're oversimplifying, as regards center. 

Snapping and transitioning from the snap position into blocking position is physiologically kinda different, and is also something of a developed skill.  So I don't really assume that if 6 and 7 are better than 8 at tackle and guard, that they're also necessarily better than 8 at center.  Not sure that you can just plug in Spriggs or Murphy at center. 

I would think that of the Patrick, Amichia, Day, Alsadek and Davis pentet, if better is simply interchangeably better and the best guard is necessarily the best center as well, that would be really good for Patrick.  And good for the Packers.  I think he's shown himself to be perfectly serviceable as a backup guard; so if that also means he'd be perfectly serviceable as a backup center as well, that's good news for us!  And if it turns out that one of the other guys is even better than perfectly serviceable, that's even better news for the Packers.

Not claiming you are right or wrong and I do get the concern about the lose of a center during a game.

Taking a minute and putting the cart before the horse here and assuming some roster positions, we can do a hypothetical. Say the starting 5 are Bakhtairi, Taylor, Linsley, McCray, Bulaga (I believe Bulaga starts the year on the PUP and either Spriggs or Murphy is the starting RT on opening day) and Spriggs and Murphy makeup the 7 game day actives. In this scenario if Linsley would go down, McCray moves to center and Murphy moves into RG. Remember that McCray was for the mostpart the backup center all of last season.

Now say the team keeps the 8th or 9th best OLineman active on game day because he is a natural center and they lose their OT's during the game. Would you rather be in a game with your 7 best OLineman active or with your 6th and 8th/9th best OLineman active? No one knows in advance who is going to get injured during the course of a game, but for me I want the 7 best active for game day.

With that said, the roster spots are yet to be determined and many different combinations could come out of this yet, but history tells us they will play the best 5 and activate the best 7.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 09:54:24 AM
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Veteran #Packers CB Tramon Williams is participating in today’s open OTA session after missing last week’s voluntary practice.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
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Ha Ha Clinton-Dix is absent again from Packers OTA. There's no known injury and he's entering the fifth-year option of his rookie deal.

Would not surprise me to see him making alot of 'business decisions' on the field again this season. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 10:07:01 AM
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QB rotation during team periods: Aaron Rodgers, Brett Hundley, Rodgers, DeShone Kizer. Packers getting Rodgers a lot of work now could be an indication he and the rest of the vets will be given minicamp off again this June.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 10:09:38 AM
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First big play that we’ve seen in team period from first-round pick @JaireAlexander: He picks off Rodgers in the red zone on a sideline pass for Geronimo Allison.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 10:16:40 AM
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#Packers rookie CB Jaire Alexander picks Aaron Rodgers on an out route. Josh Jackson got one on Rodgers yesterday. Rodgers has said he’ll test rookie CBs. Early signs are positive.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 11:09:51 AM
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First impression in person: Marcedes Lewis physically built awfully similarly to Martellus Bennett.

Only much, much slower.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 11:11:06 AM
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.@AhmadThomas13 with the second INT of Rodgers in team periods today. Thomas, who was on the practice squad last year, fired up the defense with that one.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 11:28:24 AM
Tramon Williams was back after missing at least one day last week. Here's who wasn't at Packers OTA practice on Tuesday: Mason Crosby (not injury related), Davante Adams (hamstring), Trevor Davis (hamstring), Colby Pearson (hamstring), Randall Cobb (not injury related), Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (not injury related), Demetri Goodson (calf), Clay Matthews (knee), Nick Perry (ankle), Lane Taylor (ankle), Bryan Bulaga (knee), Emanuel Byrd (hamstring).

Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ThatGuy284 on May 31, 2018, 01:18:43 PM
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Ha Ha Clinton-Dix is absent again from Packers OTA. There's no known injury and he's entering the fifth-year option of his rookie deal.

Would not surprise me to see him making alot of 'business decisions' on the field again this season.

Having seen the struggles safeties faced, and guys like Reid, Vaccaro, Boston are facing, in the free agency market this offseason, any hesitancy in his play is going to be a very poor business decision.   He needs to separate himself on the field if he wants a reasonable pay day  --   that performance coming in the regular season (and during our deep run in the Playoffs).   I'm completely unconcerned about a player, especially a vet, participating in OTA's
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: dannobanano on May 31, 2018, 01:27:39 PM
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Veteran #Packers CB Tramon Williams is participating in today’s open OTA session after missing last week’s voluntary practice.

T-Will was attending Trinity's (his daughter) kindegarten graduation ceremony.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 01:44:43 PM
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Randall Cobb and Mason Crosby not in attendance Thursday but not injury related.  Tramon Williams was back. Jason Spriggs (knee) and Demetri Goodson (calf) didn’t practice #Packers
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on May 31, 2018, 04:33:12 PM
It would appear that not everyone is a happy camper in Packerland. This was a little bit of strange behavior.

https://www.packers.com/video/winston-moss-uses-a-one-day-at-a-time-approach
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on June 01, 2018, 04:07:13 AM
It would appear that not everyone is a happy camper in Packerland. This was a little bit of strange behavior.

https://www.packers.com/video/winston-moss-uses-a-one-day-at-a-time-approach

That was a real 'couldn't care less' attitude, dismissive, short answers, chewing gum while being interviewed. Never seen that displayed before. i wonder if Moss has had a blow-up with Pettine. i wouldn't be surprised to see him jettisoned after that because of what the attitude suggests is underlying that behaviour.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: The GM on June 01, 2018, 02:59:48 PM
It would appear that not everyone is a happy camper in Packerland. This was a little bit of strange behavior.

https://www.packers.com/video/winston-moss-uses-a-one-day-at-a-time-approach

That was a real 'couldn't care less' attitude, dismissive, short answers, chewing gum while being interviewed. Never seen that displayed before. i wonder if Moss has had a blow-up with Pettine. i wouldn't be surprised to see him jettisoned after that because of what the attitude suggests is underlying that behaviour.

Im not too concerned, Some coaches arent big fans of the media or doing interviews.  Heck, Belichick probably would think Moss said too much during that presser.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: scoremore on June 01, 2018, 05:39:47 PM
It would appear that not everyone is a happy camper in Packerland. This was a little bit of strange behavior.

https://www.packers.com/video/winston-moss-uses-a-one-day-at-a-time-approach

That was a real 'couldn't care less' attitude, dismissive, short answers, chewing gum while being interviewed. Never seen that displayed before. i wonder if Moss has had a blow-up with Pettine. i wouldn't be surprised to see him jettisoned after that because of what the attitude suggests is underlying that behaviour.

I agree 1265.  This goes well beyond just a bad presser.  Doesn't take a rocket scientist to read his body language.  None of it good.  If this is the attitude he displays with his colleagues and or players he needs to go.  The sooner the better as far as I am concerned. He was a total dick.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 02, 2018, 12:15:30 PM
Clay Matthews took a line drive to the face in the charity softball game today. Hopefully he didn't break any facial bones.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 04, 2018, 10:31:41 AM
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Still no sight of #Packers S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix at voluntary OTAs. Randall Cobb and Mason Crosby have returned after missing Thursday.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 04, 2018, 10:32:14 AM
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First we’ve seen of new #Packers punter JK Scott. Missed his first, but punting from midfield (pinning the football deep), here were his final 7 unofficial hangtimes: 3.93, 4.13, 4.62, 4.23, 4.55, 4.45, 4.55. Took some time to get going, but pretty consistent once he did.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 04, 2018, 10:34:31 AM
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Adams did individual drills but looks like he’s still limited. Not doing 11-on-11s.


Davante Adams (hamstring) wasn't the only WR to return. So did Trevor Davis (hamstring) and Randall Cobb, whose absence last week was not injury related. CB Demetri Goodson (calf) and TE Emanuel Byrd (hamstring) also returned.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 04, 2018, 12:08:07 PM
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#Packers C Corey Linsley did not participate today because of a back injury. WR Michael Clark was out with an ankle, and OL Alex Light had a shoulder. WR Colby Pearson, OLB Clay Matthews, OLB Nick Perry, LG Lane Taylor, RT Bryan Bulaga and OT Jason Spriggs remain out.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: JerryA on June 04, 2018, 03:07:30 PM
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Still no sight of #Packers S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix at voluntary OTAs. Randall Cobb and Mason Crosby have returned after missing Thursday.


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HaHa will be exposed. The year he made the Pro Bowl because of his interceptions was an anomaly. He played really deep and when the QB's made horrible overthrows he was there to pick them off. Didn't show any instinct on breaking to the ball and making a football play. Also, did not show the ability to make a hard tackle on a wide open receive after the catch. If he has any kind of year like last year I would expect him to be gone. BTW, he hasn't been to any OTA's yet!
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 04, 2018, 05:34:59 PM
Clinton-Dix looks like he is one of the early favorites for fans to hate on this year. With him missing the early OTA's and with the way he played last season it is understandable that he would top the list of some of those that feel that need. But if it is the OTA's that has a person most sideways you may want to reconsider. Clinton-Dix lost his godmother and a person that has been very active in his life up until the day she past , Alisa Dorsett was 49.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-recruiting/blog/os-sp-alisa-dorsett-obit-20180514-story.html
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ricky on June 04, 2018, 06:55:39 PM
Clinton-Dix looks like he is one of the early favorites for fans to hate on this year. With him missing the early OTA's and with the way he played last season it is understandable that he would top the list of some of those that feel that need. But if it is the OTA's that has a person most sideways you may want to reconsider. Clinton-Dix lost his godmother and a person that has been very active in his life up until the day she past , Alisa Dorsett was 49.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-recruiting/blog/os-sp-alisa-dorsett-obit-20180514-story.html

My deepest condolences to Clinton-Dix at this difficult time. I've read comments on other sites that its time to get rid of C-D, he's a bum, etc. Reminds me a lot of all the haters when Adams had a down year. Or Crosby after the year his accuracy went AWOL. Patience, grasshopper.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on June 05, 2018, 02:12:46 AM
Too much angst, too early. Give it time to play out and most of this will be forgotten.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 05, 2018, 11:51:11 AM
Some good stuff from yesterday;

Andy Herman

 
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Few quick notes:

Cole Madison looks the part. He’s going to be one to keep an eye on.

Kyle Murphy two real nice reps in o-line drills.

Really like the first impression of udfa qb Tim Boyle. Live arm, good accuracy and I like his demeanor. This doesn’t seem too big for him.

Rodgers opens up team drills with a beautiful td pass on a corner route to Jimmy Graham who beat Jermaine Whitehead on the play.

Kizer replicates Rodgers corner route td earlier, this time Mercedes Lewis beats Marwin Evans. Another nice throw and catch.

Jaire Alexander is on a different level in the cb fundamental drills. His ability to flip his hips and explode is the real deal. Matches his college tape for sure. Love to see that.

Lenzy Pipkins and Donatello Brown both looked real smooth in corner drills too. Honorable mention to Herb Waters.

Seems the first team offensive line today is Bakhtiari - Patrick - Day - McCray - Pankey. I wouldn’t glean too much from this but semi interesting Pankey over Murphy/Bell at RT.

Geronimo Allison is having a really nice day.

Jaire Alexander with nice coverage on Adams.

Adams comes back & beats Alexander with a nice route next time.

J’Mon Moore watched a ball sail over him which he should have prob got his hands on and then double catches the next pass.

Jaire with great coverage and a diving pass breakup covering Jake Kumerow.

Josh Jackson bringing the pressure on a corner blitz for a “sack” on Brett Hundley.

Robert Tonyan showing off his hands on a quick pass from Hundley. A little explosion after the catch from the young tight end too.

If early impressions are any indication, get used to seeing a lot of Rodgers to Jimmy Graham. Rodgers looks like he really enjoys his big new weapon on offense.

Also it’s way too early but watching a lot of Jaire Alexander and he’s been really inpressive all day.

And on queue Rodgers finds an open Graham for a td in the back of the end zone (Biegel in coverage) but this time Graham drops the sure td.

Whitehead and Alexander had Cobb bracketed. Whitehead on outside, Alexander on inside. Cobb hesitates outside, cuts inside and Alexander got a really quick view on just how fast Rodgers’ fast ball is. Rodgers rockets one into Cobb for the td as Alexander is a half step behind.

Valdes-Scantling is the WR of the three rookies standing out the most. He just made his 2nd td catch in team activities. Moore looks like he’s thinking a lot (not unusual for a rookie).

Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: dannobanano on June 05, 2018, 12:05:23 PM
Some good stuff from yesterday;

Andy Herman

 
@SconnieSports
 Jun 4
More
Few quick notes:

Cole Madison looks the part. He’s going to be one to keep an eye on.

Kyle Murphy two real nice reps in o-line drills.

Really like the first impression of udfa qb Tim Boyle. Live arm, good accuracy and I like his demeanor. This doesn’t seem too big for him.

Rodgers opens up team drills with a beautiful td pass on a corner route to Jimmy Graham who beat Jermaine Whitehead on the play.

Kizer replicates Rodgers corner route td earlier, this time Mercedes Lewis beats Marwin Evans. Another nice throw and catch.

Jaire Alexander is on a different level in the cb fundamental drills. His ability to flip his hips and explode is the real deal. Matches his college tape for sure. Love to see that.

Lenzy Pipkins and Donatello Brown both looked real smooth in corner drills too. Honorable mention to Herb Waters.

Seems the first team offensive line today is Bakhtiari - Patrick - Day - McCray - Pankey. I wouldn’t glean too much from this but semi interesting Pankey over Murphy/Bell at RT.
I've said it before...........Don't count Pankey out.

Geronimo Allison is having a really nice day.

Jaire Alexander with nice coverage on Adams.

Adams comes back & beats Alexander with a nice route next time.

J’Mon Moore watched a ball sail over him which he should have prob got his hands on and then double catches the next pass.

Jaire with great coverage and a diving pass breakup covering Jake Kumerow.

Josh Jackson bringing the pressure on a corner blitz for a “sack” on Brett Hundley.

Robert Tonyan showing off his hands on a quick pass from Hundley. A little explosion after the catch from the young tight end too.
Another player that I've mentioned. Ton's of athleticism (size and speed), but a QB that converted to WR and now to TE. With a little more time/seasoning he could become the real deal.

If early impressions are any indication, get used to seeing a lot of Rodgers to Jimmy Graham. Rodgers looks like he really enjoys his big new weapon on offense.

Also it’s way too early but watching a lot of Jaire Alexander and he’s been really inpressive all day.

And on queue Rodgers finds an open Graham for a td in the back of the end zone (Biegel in coverage) but this time Graham drops the sure td.

Whitehead and Alexander had Cobb bracketed. Whitehead on outside, Alexander on inside. Cobb hesitates outside, cuts inside and Alexander got a really quick view on just how fast Rodgers’ fast ball is. Rodgers rockets one into Cobb for the td as Alexander is a half step behind.

Valdes-Scantling is the WR of the three rookies standing out the most. He just made his 2nd td catch in team activities. Moore looks like he’s thinking a lot (not unusual for a rookie).

Appreciate you keeping us all in the loop RT.   thumbsup)
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 08:16:29 AM
Tom Silverstein

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McCarthy on camp: 16 veterans have been excused. They deserve it where they are in their career. Second part is you only have so many reps. Veterans got most of the reps in OTA.

McCarthy: These guys need team reps, opportunity in the classroom to speak up and tailor the work to the young guys. When we get to training camp, the basics need to be ingrained.

McCarthy on Kizer and Hundley: Now it's time for those guys to get those reps. Important time, particularly for quarterbacks. We're throwing more than we have before.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 08:19:54 AM
Ryan Wood

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McCarthy asked if #Packers S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix is at minicamp: "You guys can take attendance. It's a mandatory minicamp, so things step up. But I feel really good about Ha Ha all the way through."
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 10:00:26 AM
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As they’ve done in past, #Packers “select vet” group of players excused from minicamp consist of anyone with at least 6 years experience. That group: Rodgers, Crosby, Cobb, House, Williams, Matthews, Perry, Taylor, Bakhtiari, Bell, Bulaga, Daniels, Graham, Kendricks, Lewis, Mo W.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 10:18:28 AM
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JK Scott is punting again today. He has some tremendous hang time on his kicks. It’s impressive so far. #Packers

Ryan Wood

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Veteran #Packers CB Tramon Williams is participating in today’s open OTA session after missing last week’s voluntary practice.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 10:27:37 AM
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Brett Hundley hits EQ St. Brown, covered by Jaire Alexander, in back corner of end zone for TD to end 2-minute drill. Plus, Alexander called for PI. Hundley fired up with that completion.

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Kizer throws a beautiful 44-yard pass to Kumerow who catches the over the shoulder pass in two minute #Packers
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 11:40:36 AM
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DNP for the #Packers (injuries):

Trevor Davis (hamstring)
Josh Jones (ankle)
Jake Ryan (hamstring)
Kyler Fackrell (hamstring)
Geronimo Allison (ankle)
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ricky on June 12, 2018, 01:00:03 PM
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DNP for the #Packers (injuries):

Trevor Davis (hamstring)
Josh Jones (ankle)
Jake Ryan (hamstring)
Kyler Fackrell (hamstring)
Geronimo Allison (ankle)

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a rash of hamstring problems? It seems the training staff should be giving these guys an off-season regimen to follow to keep them more limber.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 02:45:28 PM
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DNP for the #Packers (injuries):

Trevor Davis (hamstring)
Josh Jones (ankle)
Jake Ryan (hamstring)
Kyler Fackrell (hamstring)
Geronimo Allison (ankle)

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a rash of hamstring problems? It seems the training staff should be giving these guys an off-season regimen to follow to keep them more limber.

Just a product of off-season speed work done with personal trainers in an attempt to become more twitchy as a player. They have close to zero interest in what the team training staff has to suggest for off-season workouts, every team deals with the issue.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 02:46:05 PM
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#Packers WR coach David Raih says rookie Marquez Valdes-Scantling is "playing fast off the ball." Earlier, Jim Hostler said he was surprised how "sudden" he is. Hands will be big thing for him, but fifth rounder clearly impressing with his athleticism.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 02:47:29 PM
Ryan Wood

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#Packers RB coach Ben Sirmans says Ty Montgomery's role will start to develop in training camp. Expects intense RB battle, but: "I think he's too talented for him not to be on the football field." Sirmans especially likes Montgomery's ability to create matchup problems.

Raih with great breakdown of #Packers WR Davante Adams' game: "Davante is a guy who uses extreme detail at the line of scrimmage to create separation." Raih says it's great example for rookies to learn.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 12, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
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Jim Hostler, asked about rookie WRs struggling to produce their rookie years, cites many having 4 or 5 routes on the perimeter in college. "We may have 150."
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 12, 2018, 08:45:05 PM
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/06/12/green-bay-packers-minicamp-tackle-jason-spriggs-gains-size-strength/696065002/

Spriggs apparently cleared, and has apparently gained a bunch of weight. 
Whether he's gained strength and power, that's different from eating a lot. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: bmaafi on June 12, 2018, 10:02:29 PM
Anyone else notice J. Williams and Jones look like they have bulked up a little? Jones in the upper body and Williams kind of all over.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 13, 2018, 11:40:38 AM
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#Packers have a pair of WRs trying out today: Adonis Jennings (1) out of Temple, and Malik Turner (13) out of Illinois.

Adonis Jennings of Temple and Malik Turner of Illinois were in uniform and helmets for the Packers on Wednesday, making it possible one will be signed by the end of the minicamp.

I think they are light one WR and heavy one TE on the current 90 man roster for training camp, but that is assuming that they view Graham as a TE and not a WR. If inside the Packers walls they view him really as a WR, then there may be no roster change coming.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 13, 2018, 12:10:37 PM
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A brief fight breaks out during team drills. Offensive lineman Lucas Patrick was punching a defensive player in the stomach. Credit to Patrick for going to the body instead of moronically punching someone’s helmet. #Packers
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ricky on June 13, 2018, 12:14:17 PM
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A brief fight breaks out during team drills. Offensive lineman Lucas Patrick was punching a defensive player in the stomach. Credit to Patrick for going to the body instead of moronically punching someone’s helmet#Packers

Or punching a white/black/smart board during the playoffs.  ;D
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 13, 2018, 06:58:03 PM
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Emanuel Byrd had three straight TDs in red zone period.

I think their is a fair chance that this guy sticks on the 53 and Kendricks is cut loose. Is their any chance of picking up a conditional 7th rounder from the Chargers for him now?
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ricky on June 14, 2018, 05:59:30 AM
Packer Report

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Emanuel Byrd had three straight TDs in red zone period.

I think their is a fair chance that this guy sticks on the 53 and Kendricks is cut loose. Is their any chance of picking up a conditional 7th rounder from the Chargers for him now?

Slow down. He had a good day against- who was covering him again? There is a long way to go before any definitive decisions can be made for backups. We'll see what happens when the pads go on and the competition heats up.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 14, 2018, 07:30:28 AM
Packer Report

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Emanuel Byrd had three straight TDs in red zone period.

I think their is a fair chance that this guy sticks on the 53 and Kendricks is cut loose. Is their any chance of picking up a conditional 7th rounder from the Chargers for him now?

Slow down. He had a good day against- who was covering him again? There is a long way to go before any definitive decisions can be made for backups. We'll see what happens when the pads go on and the competition heats up.

This is not just a good day of practice against whoever. For those that have been paying attention, he has been doing these types of things since being a late add to training camp last season. The only thing slowing his chances last year was knowledge of the system. A year on the PS and a late season add to the 53 and he is much more aware then a year ago. In his one game of action in week 17 against the Lions he had 2 catches for 31 yards and showed again that he can perform what is ask of him. Kendrick disappointingly has only stolen money from the day he signed, the classic veteran wanting to just add to his bank account before riding off into the sunset.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 14, 2018, 08:20:07 AM
Rob Demovsky

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Other than Bryan Bulaga, coach Mike McCarthy said he didn't any concerns about injured/rehabbing players being ready for training camp. It still seems likely Bulaga will open camp on PUP given that he tore his ACL in November.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 14, 2018, 10:45:37 AM
Aaron Nagler

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I know fans think he's a long shot, but If he has a good start to camp, he has a real chance to not only make the team but to push Kendricks for a spot in the rotation. He made plays right away when they picked him up in camp last year.Aaron Nagler added,

Wes Hodkiewicz
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Emanuel Byrd...still catching everything #Packers
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 14, 2018, 10:50:00 AM
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Tim Boyle throws a dime to Ja’Mon Moore for a 41-yard TD in move the ball #Packers

Boyle throws a 37-yard TD to Michael Clark in two minute. Worked sidelines with passes to keep drive moving and time from running #Packers
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 14, 2018, 10:52:10 AM
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That's it for the Packers offseason program. Next time they're on the field is July 26.

Next up Training Camp.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 14, 2018, 11:12:20 AM
Final day tweets from Andy Herman.

JK Scott has the ability to be a big time weapon for GB. Time will tell but his approach and follow through are so consistent. He has fantastic hangtime and a huge leg. Punters are weapons too.

Jaire Alexander fields a kick and finds a crease and explodes. It’s a drill with a bunch of pat-a-caking but it was noticeable nonetheless.

First team offense:

Hundley
Adams, J. Williams, Ripper, Byrd, Yancey
Murphy-Patrick-Linsley-McCray-Spriggs

EQ, Kumerow, Ja’Mon Moore the next receivers in.

Aaron Jones now in at RB.

Biegel with a “sack” of Hundley.

A few plays already where Hundley not getting rid of the ball in rhythm and holding the ball too long.

Tim freakin Boyle hits J’Mon Moore on a post route for a td. Beautiful route. Beautiful throw.

Devante Mays showing off a quick cut. Huge camp coming up for him.

Nice run with great vision and a precise, well-timed cut by Jamaal Williams.

J’Mon Moore showing up early and often today. Really difficult td pass over Lenzy Pipkins in the back corner.

I can see what the team liked in Herb Waters last year. He’s looked good the 2 practices I’ve been to so far. Plays confident and has good agility and toughness.

Down 4, 1:06 on the clock 1 timeout. Kizer trying to lead a comeback.

Jermaine Whitehead almost w a pick on 2nd play. Prob should have had it.

Alexander with beautiful coverage on Yancey on play 3.

Montravius Adams with a “sack” on 3rd down. Think he split Spriggs/McCray.

Defense wins this round. Very rough period for Kizer ended with a checkdown on the last play that gave his team no chance. The clock runs out.

Same situation. Boyle now running the offense.

Boyle starts with a beautiful throw on a nice slant by MVS for a 1st down.

2nd play Boyle’s inaccuracy shows on a swing pass that missed badly. L#

3rd play a gorgeous throw on an intermediate out route to MVS.

Boyle ends it with another awesome throw this time on a post to Michael Clark for the TD. Clark beat Waters by a couple steps on the play. Boyle is really impressive so far today.

Jaire Alexander with fantastic coverage on Davante Adams in team. Ball came his way and Alexander had a better chance at it. Really nice work by the rook.

Gilbert prob could have had a sack on the next play but the play continues and Yancey drops a contested pass he should have had.

And Tim Boyle comes back to life a bit as he throws a pick to Raven Greene in the red zone.

False start by Alex Light earns him a spot on the sidelines.

Josh Jackson this time with great coverage on Tae. Mirrored him across the field and stuck with him the entire way.

A couple of undrafted guys, Connor Sheehy and Greer Martini combine for a nice run stop.

Next play EQ drops an easy pass over the middle.

Devante Mays with another nice run. He’s looked good today.

One player consistently standing out on defense today: Vince Biegel.

Not sure if Jason Spriggs reinjured something but I’ve seen him on one knee a couple times, could just be he’s not in game shape yet. He also has a bit of a limp he’s walking with.

J’Mon Moore with a smooth route to gain separation, pass is a bit high but Moore skys for it but the db recovers and knocks the pass out of Moore’s hands to end the team period.

And that’s it for practice today. A quick practice just over an hour. Some players who stood out:

J. Moore
J. Alexander
V. Biegel
M. Clark
T. Boyle
Montgomery
D. Mays
J. Jackson
R. Greene

Some players who struggled today:

Hundley
Kizer
EQ
Yancey
Spriggs
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 14, 2018, 01:19:25 PM
Thanks much for the OTA notes, RT.  Really fun to read, much appreciated.  Yes, I know, I know, caution, caution, everything is different in pads, etc. , and young receivers always look better in OTA's when they aren't getting jammed and speared and stuff. 

Nice to have some good reviews on both Moore and MVS, and also Clark. 
Fun to have some positives on Biegel, too.  Man, it would be such a swing for us if he emerged as good player. 

Just one practice, but I found it interesting that Spriggs and McCray on right (where we'll presumably need two starters) and Murphy and Patrick on left (where we sure hope we don't need any new starters.)
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 15, 2018, 06:22:52 AM
Anyone else notice J. Williams and Jones look like they have bulked up a little? Jones in the upper body and Williams kind of all over.

Not seeing the Jones upper body thing, but have seen several places talking about Jones increasing his lower body strength.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/14/packers-rb-aaron-jones-definitely-looks-bigger/
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 15, 2018, 07:00:49 AM
Jones with a stronger base to anchor in pass pro could be nice.  Or to break a few tackles, or to be able to power through for a 2-yard gain when there really aren't any holds.  Thanks for links.  What really works can vary, but it's always kind of fun to see what management and trainer and player view as ways to improve themselves. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 15, 2018, 07:18:09 AM
Thanks much for the OTA notes, RT.  Really fun to read, much appreciated.  Yes, I know, I know, caution, caution, everything is different in pads, etc. , and young receivers always look better in OTA's when they aren't getting jammed and speared and stuff. 

Nice to have some good reviews on both Moore and MVS, and also Clark. 
Fun to have some positives on Biegel, too.  Man, it would be such a swing for us if he emerged as good player. 

Just one practice, but I found it interesting that Spriggs and McCray on right (where we'll presumably need two starters) and Murphy and Patrick on left (where we sure hope we don't need any new starters.)

You are welcome craig. I'm like many on here and just trying to share as much information as possible so we can all draw as intelligent of conclusions as possible. The information is out there, it is up to each person to decide to educate themselves or remain ignorant.

I agree with you in that everything for now needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but I am very pleased with the overall makeup of the 90 man roster. Many have talked themselves into the Packers don't have this or that, but I don't see a weakness on this team. In the end I believe the biggest change/addition for this team is the installing of Pettine as DC. As the season go's on and the same players that were on the field for Capers and getting embarrassed are now making stops and winning for Pettine, the root of the problem will be very obvious. People will spin that a number of different ways, but the reality is that it all go's back to MM and his control of the coaching staff and his continued poor decision to keep Capers around.

That is all the past and the future is very bright for this team. Barring injuries, there is no excuse for failure. MM has played the corporate blame game well up to this point, but all of his excuses have been covered and he has painted himself into a corner. Win now or all failure points straight at MM. The rules of corporate politics, eventually the blamer runs out of people to blame and its time to put up or be put out.
In the words of Kevin Greene, "It is time".
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 15, 2018, 07:26:12 AM
....Emanuel Byrd had three straight TDs in red zone period.   I think their is a fair chance that this guy sticks on the 53 and Kendricks is cut loose. Is their any chance of picking up a conditional 7th rounder from the Chargers for him now?
....This is not just a good day of practice against whoever. For those that have been paying attention, he has been doing these types of things since being a late add to training camp last season. The only thing slowing his chances last year was knowledge of the system. A year on the PS and a late season add to the 53 and he is much more aware then a year ago. In his one game of action in week 17 against the Lions he had 2 catches for 31 yards and showed again that he can perform what is ask of him. Kendrick disappointingly has only stolen money from the day he signed, the classic veteran wanting to just add to his bank account before riding off into the sunset.

RT, how do you really feel about men over 28?  :):)

1.  Hope Byrd impresses and wins position. 
2.  MM has already had Kendrick for a year.  So **IF** he's a lazy slacker ust trying to steal, I would hope MM isn't too dumb to notice.  I'm kind of going to assume that *IF* MM keeps Kendrick on the roster, it may reflect that coach does NOT perceive Kendrick as a slacker with bad motives just trying to steal. 
3.  Not sure it has to be Kendrick or Byrd.  Could keep both.
4.  Kendrick regardless, I totally hope that Byrd looks like a player and wins a job.  D+D team, I totally want to see young guy step up and win job.  D+D team, I totally want to see young guys develop into good players.  Hopefully Byrd has upside to be a good player and be something of a playmaking receiver, so I totally hope that upside isn't just summer-hopeful fan but is perceived as realistic by MM/Gute.  (We know Kendrick has very limited upside, so *if* it was to be one or the other and not both, I'd much prefer to dream/hope on the younger guy with the possible Buildican upside....)   
5.  Lewis, Kendrick, and Graham are old.  Having a young TE emerge would be so nice.  (And could also be like winning a free discretionary draft pick, rather than needing to burn one on TE.) 
6.  Byrd is really small and short for a TE.  But his size might perhaps be well suited for ST.
7.  Being short and small might seem ill-suited for blocking.  But sometimes shorter is better for leverage and "pad-level"; so while I've heard nothing favorable about Byrd's blocking, it's at least hypothetically possible that even at only 6'2", he may still become anti-awful as a blocker? 
8.  MM + Gute may prove dumb (as seems to be the usual presumption!)  But I'm hopeful that MM will prove wise in wanting a pass-catching TE.  So even if Byrd proves to be a crummy blocker, I'm still really interested in hi as a possibly good pass-receiver.  (Just as I'm hopeful Graham will be really useful to the offense as a pass-receiver, even if he stinks and has little interest/effort as a blocker.)  Clearly Lewis and Kendrick aren't much as receivers, plus Graham is old.  So **IF** Byrd can emerge as a good receiver, I think that's really desirable both long term (post-Graham) and also short term.  It's the NFL, so Graham might get hurt this year.  Plus I think that *IF* MM is going to use two-TE sets (which I expect to happen not infrequently), I get that having blocker/receiver Lewis/Graham tandem will be a thing, I still think that having receiver/receiver Graham/Byrd tandem might be really interesting as well.  Especially if Byrd could emerge  as variably anti-awful in the blocking role.  (He might stink for size/strength/aptitude/skill as blocker, but obviously as a young guy battling for any snaps he can get, he's going to give it whatever he can as a blocker and isn't going to lack for effort.) 

So I'm really hopeful that Byrd will really play well in camp, become a thing, win a spot on the roster, and become a good NFL TE for the Packers long-term and maybe short-term also. 

Love those optimistic hope underdog stories of summer! 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 15, 2018, 08:02:21 AM
....I don't see a weakness on this team. ... the reality is that it all go's back to MM and his control of the coaching staff and his continued poor decision to keep Capers around.

.... Barring injuries, there is no excuse for failure. MM has played the corporate blame game well up to this point, but all of his excuses have been covered and he has painted himself into a corner. Win now or all failure points straight at MM. The rules of corporate politics, eventually the blamer runs out of people to blame and its time to put up or be put out.....

Key words are "failure" and "barring injuries".  And "no excuses". 
1.  "Failure":  Good chance Packers go 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5, and then get knocked out in playoffs.  Critics will call that "failure", blame, and want MM put out.  Goal is SB, short of goal.
 Supporters will say we're lucky to have a coach that gets us into the playoffs, what a good steady hand we're blessed to have. 

2.  "Excuses":  I think there are already built-in excuses.  Pettine's new defense, still learning the defense.  Youth.  Look how young the secondary is?  Look at what a mixed up and blended o-line we've working with, Spriggs and Murphy and McCray are all inexperienced....?  TE's are just getting used to Rodgers.  Look how young and inexperienced the WR depth is....  There are plenty of pre-built excuses available, if wanted.... 

3.  "Barring injuries".  Bulaga's already hurt, Spriggs is a limp....   It's the NFL, there will be injuries, I guarantee that, and they will provide excuse.  Adams, Cobb, or Graham, what if any one of them gets hurt?  Bakthi, Taylor, Linsley, what if any one of them gets hurt?  Matthews or Perry, what if either of them gets hurt?  (And what are the odds there.....)  King, Jaire, or Johnson, what if any of them gets hurt?  Daniels or Clark, what if either of them gets hurt?   HaHa, Brice, Josh Jones, what if any of them gets hurt?  Aaron Rodgers, what if he gets hurt (again)?   It's the National Injury League, there will be injuries, that's a given.  Who, how many, and how badly, we don't know yet.  But in the National INjury League, every coach and GM can count on having injuries available as an excuse for falling short of Super Bowl! 

It's only in the Hope-Springs-Eternal summertime that we fans (and management) are dreaming without injuries. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 15, 2018, 08:16:58 AM
....I don't see a weakness on this team. ... the reality is that it all go's back to MM and his control of the coaching staff and his continued poor decision to keep Capers around.

.... Barring injuries, there is no excuse for failure. MM has played the corporate blame game well up to this point, but all of his excuses have been covered and he has painted himself into a corner. Win now or all failure points straight at MM. The rules of corporate politics, eventually the blamer runs out of people to blame and its time to put up or be put out.....

Key words are "failure" and "barring injuries".  And "no excuses". 
1.  "Failure":  Good chance Packers go 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5, and then get knocked out in playoffs.  Critics will call that "failure", blame, and want MM put out.  Goal is SB, short of goal.
 Supporters will say we're lucky to have a coach that gets us into the playoffs, what a good steady hand we're blessed to have. 

2.  "Excuses":  I think there are already built-in excuses.  Pettine's new defense, still learning the defense.  Youth.  Look how young the secondary is?  Look at what a mixed up and blended o-line we've working with, Spriggs and Murphy and McCray are all inexperienced....?  TE's are just getting used to Rodgers.  Look how young and inexperienced the WR depth is....  There are plenty of pre-built excuses available, if wanted.... 

3.  "Barring injuries".  Bulaga's already hurt, Spriggs is a limp....   It's the NFL, there will be injuries, I guarantee that, and they will provide excuse.  Adams, Cobb, or Graham, what if any one of them gets hurt?  Bakthi, Taylor, Linsley, what if any one of them gets hurt?  Matthews or Perry, what if either of them gets hurt?  (And what are the odds there.....)  King, Jaire, or Johnson, what if any of them gets hurt?  Daniels or Clark, what if either of them gets hurt?   HaHa, Brice, Josh Jones, what if any of them gets hurt?  Aaron Rodgers, what if he gets hurt (again)?   It's the National Injury League, there will be injuries, that's a given.  Who, how many, and how badly, we don't know yet.  But in the National INjury League, every coach and GM can count on having injuries available as an excuse for falling short of Super Bowl! 

It's only in the Hope-Springs-Eternal summertime that we fans (and management) are dreaming without injuries.

Can't help you here. When people predetermine why they are going to fail, they are going to fail.

Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.  Joe Gibbs
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 15, 2018, 08:18:32 AM
Have seen some vaguely positive comments about Biegel, and MOss have been repeatedly positive that he's working hard and working really hard!  Still remains to be seen whether his being a hard-working max-effort guy will turn into effective play.  But man it would be huge if he was able to emerge as a good player, set the edge, get some TFL, get a few sacks, get some pressures.  Opportunity is sure there for him to get some snaps.  HOpe he makes great use of them and has a huge step up.  Really important 2nd-year-jump candidate. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 15, 2018, 08:25:59 AM
...When people predetermine why they are going to fail, they are going to fail.   Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.  Joe Gibbs

Sure, that's beautiful.  Health is a thing, though, even if that makes me a "loser" to acknowledge it!  :):)  And specific injuries tend not to be "predetermined".  We have no idea today who's going to be healthy and hurt during the season and postseason.  If only a team knew where the injuries were going to strike ahead of time.......!
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 15, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
....Emanuel Byrd had three straight TDs in red zone period.   I think their is a fair chance that this guy sticks on the 53 and Kendricks is cut loose. Is their any chance of picking up a conditional 7th rounder from the Chargers for him now?
....This is not just a good day of practice against whoever. For those that have been paying attention, he has been doing these types of things since being a late add to training camp last season. The only thing slowing his chances last year was knowledge of the system. A year on the PS and a late season add to the 53 and he is much more aware then a year ago. In his one game of action in week 17 against the Lions he had 2 catches for 31 yards and showed again that he can perform what is ask of him. Kendrick disappointingly has only stolen money from the day he signed, the classic veteran wanting to just add to his bank account before riding off into the sunset.
RT, how do you really feel about men over 28?  :):)

1.  Hope Byrd impresses and wins position. 
2.  MM has already had Kendrick for a year.  So **IF** he's a lazy slacker ust trying to steal, I would hope MM isn't too dumb to notice.  I'm kind of going to assume that *IF* MM keeps Kendrick on the roster, it may reflect that coach does NOT perceive Kendrick as a slacker with bad motives just trying to steal. 
3.  Not sure it has to be Kendrick or Byrd.  Could keep both.
4.  Kendrick regardless, I totally hope that Byrd looks like a player and wins a job.  D+D team, I totally want to see young guy step up and win job.  D+D team, I totally want to see young guys develop into good players.  Hopefully Byrd has upside to be a good player and be something of a playmaking receiver, so I totally hope that upside isn't just summer-hopeful fan but is perceived as realistic by MM/Gute.  (We know Kendrick has very limited upside, so *if* it was to be one or the other and not both, I'd much prefer to dream/hope on the younger guy with the possible Buildican upside....)   
5.  Lewis, Kendrick, and Graham are old.  Having a young TE emerge would be so nice.  (And could also be like winning a free discretionary draft pick, rather than needing to burn one on TE.) 
6.  Byrd is really small and short for a TE.  But his size might perhaps be well suited for ST.
7.  Being short and small might seem ill-suited for blocking.  But sometimes shorter is better for leverage and "pad-level"; so while I've heard nothing favorable about Byrd's blocking, it's at least hypothetically possible that even at only 6'2", he may still become anti-awful as a blocker? 
8.  MM + Gute may prove dumb (as seems to be the usual presumption!)  But I'm hopeful that MM will prove wise in wanting a pass-catching TE.  So even if Byrd proves to be a crummy blocker, I'm still really interested in hi as a possibly good pass-receiver.  (Just as I'm hopeful Graham will be really useful to the offense as a pass-receiver, even if he stinks and has little interest/effort as a blocker.)  Clearly Lewis and Kendrick aren't much as receivers, plus Graham is old.  So **IF** Byrd can emerge as a good receiver, I think that's really desirable both long term (post-Graham) and also short term.  It's the NFL, so Graham might get hurt this year.  Plus I think that *IF* MM is going to use two-TE sets (which I expect to happen not infrequently), I get that having blocker/receiver Lewis/Graham tandem will be a thing, I still think that having receiver/receiver Graham/Byrd tandem might be really interesting as well.  Especially if Byrd could emerge  as variably anti-awful in the blocking role.  (He might stink for size/strength/aptitude/skill as blocker, but obviously as a young guy battling for any snaps he can get, he's going to give it whatever he can as a blocker and isn't going to lack for effort.) 

So I'm really hopeful that Byrd will really play well in camp, become a thing, win a spot on the roster, and become a good NFL TE for the Packers long-term and maybe short-term also. 

Love those optimistic hope underdog stories of summer!

Not an age thing at all craig. It is a motivation thing or in this case a lack of motivation thing. When signing FA's, they should arrive with the motivation to show the last team they played for that they made a mistake not keeping them on their team. Not arrive with the appoach to closeout career with a few more paychecks. That is why Woodson and Peppers were good signings and why Wilkerson should also be a good signing. It's not that hard.

As for point number 8. I do not think MM or Gute are dumb, but I do believe that Gute's hands are tied on some things and is forced into others. I believe he could be a very good GM if he was really a complete GM, but he is not. As I have pointed out from the day he was hired, MM is calling a lot of his own shots and Gutes is powerless. That is a flawed front office structure.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000937399/article/packers-gm-surprised-to-not-have-authority-over-coach
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: Twain on June 15, 2018, 03:37:11 PM

As for point number 8. I do not think MM or Gute are dumb, but I do believe that Gute's hands are tied on some things and is forced into others. I believe he could be a very good GM if he was really a complete GM, but he is not. As I have pointed out from the day he was hired, MM is calling a lot of his own shots and Gutes is powerless. That is a flawed front office structure.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000937399/article/packers-gm-surprised-to-not-have-authority-over-coach

I am curious RT- why do you think Murphy keeping the authority to hire and fire the head coach is a flawed front office structure?
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: RT on June 16, 2018, 07:26:24 AM

As for point number 8. I do not think MM or Gute are dumb, but I do believe that Gute's hands are tied on some things and is forced into others. I believe he could be a very good GM if he was really a complete GM, but he is not. As I have pointed out from the day he was hired, MM is calling a lot of his own shots and Gutes is powerless. That is a flawed front office structure.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000937399/article/packers-gm-surprised-to-not-have-authority-over-coach

I am curious RT- why do you think Murphy keeping the authority to hire and fire the head coach is a flawed front office structure?

The chain of command structure is a tried and proven method of operations and is the best way to ensure accountability at each level. Allows for people to 'just do their damn job'.

This matrix type structure (a hybrid of divisional and functional structures) that Murphy has setup is flawed because it is a breeding grounds for internal power struggles. Most areas of the team now will have a dual management - coach or GM whats to sign player X, but Director of football operations says the contract demands are too high. Internal power struggle. Cutdown comes and coach wants to keep player X because he can help on a few plays right now and GM wants to keep player Y because he shows traits of being a very good player a year or two down the line. Internal power struggle. I could go on with these examples all day long, but the point is that it is an unneeded waste of time and mental energy in every department.

People that don't work in this type of environment or never have will think that is not a big deal, but it is a big deal. They are in a very competitive business and they are very competitive people who think they are alway right and feel the need to always win. They are dominate A personalities, no one there is saying 'you can have the last donut', they are armwrestling for it. In everyone of these internal power struggles there will be a winner and a loser and by nature of the beast the loser is going to expend even more time and energy to his point of view the next time their is a differing of opinions. All this is counterproductive and a waste of time that should be put to use in the common goal of trying to win a SB.   

A matrix structure will never stand the test of time in that environment because of the tension caused for the internal power struggles will in time erode away at the working relationships of the parties envolved.   
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ricky on June 16, 2018, 08:54:26 AM
Posted a similar question earlier. Who sets the final roster? It used to be TT, though I'm sure MM had significant input. But it was TT's job to get the players, and MM's and the staff's to coach them up and utilize them correctly. We'll see how this works, but I do agree RT, there needs to be a clear management structure. The reason given was there were "silos" within the organization (read: kingdoms) that weren't always in synch with each other. This new structure was supposed to streamline the decision making process, and make for more cooeration/comminication. Though it could well become, as you said, become a series of power struggles. And with MM's known penchant for being stubborn... We'll see how this works out. Stay tuned when training camp begins. Especially along the right side of the O-line.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: Twain on June 16, 2018, 09:01:10 AM
Posted a similar question earlier. Who sets the final roster?

That's a key question.  I don't think we know.  Who has the authority when Gute and MM disagree- I doubt Murphy is the decision maker on that one, but who knows?
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 16, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
....The chain of command structure is a tried and proven method of operations and is the best way to ensure accountability at each level. Allows for people to 'just do their damn job'.

This matrix type structure (a hybrid of divisional and functional structures) that Murphy has setup is flawed because it is a breeding grounds for internal power struggles. Most areas of the team now will have a dual management - coach or GM whats to sign player X, but Director of football operations says the contract demands are too high. Internal power struggle. Cutdown comes and coach wants to keep player X because he can help on a few plays right now and GM wants to keep player Y because he shows traits of being a very good player a year or two down the line. Internal power struggle. I could go on with these examples all day long, but the point is that it is an unneeded waste of time and mental energy in every department.

People that don't work in this type of environment or never have will think that is not a big deal, but it is a big deal. They are in a very competitive business and they are very competitive people who think they are alway right and feel the need to always win. They are dominate A personalities, no one there is saying 'you can have the last donut', they are armwrestling for it. In everyone of these internal power struggles there will be a winner and a loser and by nature of the beast the loser is going to expend even more time and energy to his point of view the next time their is a differing of opinions. All this is counterproductive and a waste of time that should be put to use in the common goal of trying to win a SB.   

A matrix structure will never stand the test of time in that environment because of the tension caused for the internal power struggles will in time erode away at the working relationships of the parties involved.

Thanks, RT, that was really well expressed. 
It's also a really gloomy projection.  In your landscape, we've got:
1.   Gute who's powerless;
2.  MM who's both dumb and stubborn; and
3.  Murphy who must also be dumb, both in selecting a dumb organizational structure that's doomed to fail, and in seemingly shifting more power to the dumb/short-sited coach. 

Seems like a really bleak synopsis!  And unfortunately I really respect your insights.  (Unfortunate, because it seems so bleak.) 

The hopeful part of me hopes that somehow you've seeing it more gloomy than it needs to be.  How might it be not quite that bad?
1.  Is Murphy really so dumb as to choose such a rotten structure? 

2.  Might there not still be some very clear chain-of-command, or elements thereof? 
*For example, might the traditional chain-of-command perhaps remain intact, other than the hiring/firing of head coach? 
*Perhaps Gute has the same complete authority over personnel and roster that TT and Wolf always had, and MM and Gute both know that? 
*Perhaps MM has the same complete authority over assistant coaches, over game strategy, and over roster usage that he's always had? 
*And perhaps Ball is answerable to Gute in the same way he always has been?  Make recommendations, provide pros-and-cons, do all the analysis, but ultimately it's Gute who decides whether it's worth it to sign a Graham, or to not retain Jordy, or to extend Adams and Linsley, or to resign HaHa or Montgomery at the contracts Balls tells him the agents might accept? 

I guess I'm wondering whether there isn't still enough definition and differentiation of responsibility that perhaps it still "Allows for people to 'just do their damn job'."????

3.  Are there perhaps successful examples of matrix-type structures in sports?  Baseball and football have their nuanced distinctions.  But I'm a big Cubs fan, and I think Theo Epstein's Cubs probably tend towards matrix structure and have done so in a successful way?   President Epstein is a huge competitive personality; so is Manager Maddon; GM Hoyer; draft+scouting director McLeod; and many more VERY self-confident voices and thinkers in that team.  So I think there are examples of creative successful teams using variant organizational structures.  That said, within the Cubs matrix there is certainly well-defined respect for different domains.  Theo and Hoyer are certainly at the table in discussing draft picks, but ultimately they know that McLeod makes draft decisions, that's his domain.  Maddon speaks into what he wants, but ultimately it's Hoyer and Theo who make the final decisions on free agency, contracts, and trades.  I suspect that while Hoyer is GM, that in the organization it's probably understood that Theo has the final say on big decisions.  Hoyer and their analytics certainly talk to the manager, but ultimately he does what he wants to do.  Distinct silos have distinct bosses. 

I'm just hoping for the best, I know, and hoping that the Packers aren't set up in a doomed-to-fail structure with a bunch of dumb losers competing to make bad decisions!  If that's the reality, the future could be pretty dismal. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 16, 2018, 12:40:22 PM
More rambling:  To spin things in the negative, the MM/Gute situation is a potentially a classic conflict of Nowacrat vs Buildican priorities,

The veteran coach riding the aging star QB:  potential to be totally Nowacrat.  Wants to do everything possible to win now, while Rodgers still gives him the chance, and while he's still the coach. 

vs the young GM: potential to be strongly Buildican.  Wants to build his own long-term success, build up young talent that will last, perhaps supporting a durable legacy that might outlast both Rodgers and MM. 

The movie drama could certainly portray a simplistic and powerful conflict of interest, pulling at cross purposes at every decision big and small. 

I'd like to think there could be considerably more nuance, and sincere devotion to common mutual interest.  Perhaps Nowacrat and Buildican do NOT need to be at each other's throats and in constant conflict? 
*Perhaps Gute understand that each season is sacred; that trying to win championships while Aaron is still a weapon is an obvious opportunity and responsibility; so perhaps he's got plenty of competitive Nowacrat burning. 
*Perhaps MM wants to win now of course, but has no intention of conceding future success; he totally wants to both compete and build, fully understanding it's a young-man's game; he has no intention of quitting as soon as Rodgers can't compete; and he as plenty of Buildican passion to build winning that will last into the future; and that he wants to build players and a system that will win beyond Rodgers, and will support a personal legacy as more than just a coach who lucked into a GOAT QB and only tagged along with 12's career and no further. 

So I'm hoping that long-term Buidlican good is NOT being unduly sacrificed for short-term Nowacrat impulses. 

I would suggest that trading for a next-year-first-rounder was a clear Buildican move, reflecting that irresponsible Nowacrat impulses are not running totally wild.   
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 16, 2018, 02:03:08 PM
...
Not an age thing at all craig. It is a motivation thing or in this case a lack of motivation thing. When signing FA's, they should arrive with the motivation ....

Not to belabor this too much further!  :) 

But, on what basis have you already concluded that Bell and Lewis lack motivation?  (Lewis seems to be ticked that Jacksonville let him go, so if the "prove them wrong" motivation is what's needed, maybe he DOES have that?)

Do you have inside scoop on Kendrick?  Or is your conclusion that his motives were "stealing" based on the combination of getting arrested for smoking pot, combined with his totally blah and non-impactful play on the field?  )It wouldn't at all surprise me if he was a slacker, and lacked motivation.  But I don't live in Green Bay or have anybody in-the-know telling me inside scoop on guys effort.)   I know Biegel had like totally zero noticeable impact when he played; but NOBODY translates that into meaning he's a slacker or lacking in motivation.  So, with Kendrick's sub-average play, I'm not sure whether to attribute that to lack of motivation (unlike Biegle) or lack of talent-skill (like last year's version of Biegel.) 

As for Kendrick, a point is that *IF* he's a lazy slacker, MM should know that now, even if he didn't last year.  You know more after you've had a guy around for a while, which can then better inform subsequent decisions. 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ricky on June 16, 2018, 05:42:26 PM
Posted a similar question earlier. Who sets the final roster?

That's a key question.  I don't think we know.  Who has the authority when Gute and MM disagree- I doubt Murphy is the decision maker on that one, but who knows?

I sent a question to Packers.com Inbox asking about who would set the final roster. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on June 17, 2018, 01:55:14 AM
A question I have been interested in for years, ricky and Twain (and I have posted questions myself). I never got a proper answer.

With the lack of expert information, I came up with this.

Gute has final say on drafting, free agents etc (but not without plenty of communication with the coaches). He sets the financial ceiling for any veteran player acquisition - and Ball works within that. Ball also handles plenty of the higher level, day to day executive decision stuff, to keep Gute from being overloaded on non-football matters.

Gute has control of the cap and (again with consultation) is the final voice deciding which guys need to be let go for cap-cost vs performance reasons.

Gute also has final say on who is kept at cutdown time, but in practice he makes very few of those decisions each year, just the occasional guy who is let go for performance, financial and age reasons, guys like Nelson, Sitton, Lang, might have qualified if he had been GM then.

McCarthy, taking on board the recommendations of his coordinators, coaches and Gute himself, sets up the roster to his liking.

The key to the whole thing is clear areas of responsibility, coupled with excellent communication; between McCarthy with his 'tree' (coordinators and position coaches), and Gute with his tree (scouts, head of player personnel, cap manager etc) and Murphy with HIS tree (board, financial team, media stuff etc). If Murphy/McCarthy/Gutekunst can all work well, both with each other and within their trees, the only thing left to worry about is their talent level. If they work well together AND each have a high talent level, the organisation is on rock solid foundations.

Murphy's main responsibility is to keep the whole organisation ticking along well, financially, socially and with success on the field.
Gute's main responsibility is the roster and the cap health, now and in the future.
Ball's responsibility is to negotiate the best contract deals he can, within the maximum parameters Gute sets, and to take on plenty of the upper echelon executive work that is not pure football stuff.
McCarthy's responsibility is to deliver a successful product on the field and ensure the optimum levels of teaching/maintaining/broadening players abilities and performance. Part of that responsibility is also to speak to the press regularly, most particularly during the season.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: ricky on June 17, 2018, 06:17:14 AM
OneTwoSixFive, so, Gutekunst has final say over the roster? With input from MM and the coaches? So, if the team lacks depth in any area, that is on Gutekunst. And if the players don't perform up to expectations, it would be MM's fault. However, if Gutekunst didn't give MM the best players possible, based on cost rather than performance, this would be Gutekunst's fault? Or MM's and the coaches for not doing their job well enough? And, to borrow a question someone else asked, if MM sees a player as being ready to play now, but Gutekunst sees a player at the same position with more "upside" and less cost, which one gets on the roster?

Now, to be fair and reasonable, no, I'm not asking you to answer these questions. But these are questions the power structure of the team will be facing in a few short months. How it all shakes out will be interesting. TT was well known for keeping younger, cheaper players as backups, and when they were call on to perform, they tended to be significantly less effective than the guys they were replacing. I'm not suggesting that every guy on the roster be starter quality- that is a pipe dream- but there is a built in conflict between "win now" and "we have to plan and save for the future."
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: The GM on June 17, 2018, 11:26:32 AM
The structure can work if everybody knows their roles and what is expected of them.  In Seattle GM John Schneider is in charge of the 90 man roster.   Pete Carroll is in charge of getting it down to 53.  Do they collaborate?  I'm sure they do, and you likely wont hear about any issues between them.  Both know their roles and work together to make it happen.  I'm not sure how the exact roles are applied in Green Bay, but it can work.  I don't think Murphy is going to be involved in any of the selection or cutting process at all.   I think his role in this area is to let these guys do their jobs and distantly observe how these guys interact and then look at the results.    He isn't going to be involved in player X vs player Y.   If there is a personnel related conflict, he'll simply tell them to work it out IMO.

It kinda goes to the old Ron Wolf theory of player selection in predraft meetings.  If you believe your player is better than the guy I want, and you don't convince me,  you have failed as a scout.   

 

 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on June 17, 2018, 11:34:37 AM
OneTwoSixFive, so, Gutekunst has final say over the roster? With input from MM and the coaches? So, if the team lacks depth in any area, that is on Gutekunst.

Final say, yes. But in practice he lets MM makes by far the majority of decisions.

And if the players don't perform up to expectations, it would be MM's fault. However, if Gutekunst didn't give MM the best players possible, based on cost rather than performance, this would be Gutekunst's fault? Or MM's and the coaches for not doing their job well enough?

This is the headache. Someone has to make a determination (when failure demands a closer look is taken) whether the HC or GM is at fault. It could be either/both/neither, depending on circumstances (for example: cluster injuries at one position ruining a season = difficult to blame anyone). Also, letting the likes of Lang and Sitton go are complicated calculations, based on projected and past health, performance, attitude, cost, depth behind that individual. Sometimes you can do a good job and still have people unhappy.
And, to borrow a question someone else asked, if MM sees a player as being ready to play now, but Gutekunst sees a player at the same position with more "upside" and less cost, which one gets on the roster?

That's the Nowacrat vs Buildican philosophies, which (as you say) can lead to very different views between GM and HC on a player. Differing viewpoints are why good communication is so important between the coach side and the GM side. Like so many marriages (the better ones), it needs give and take on both sides. It's a delicate dance.

PS. 'The GM's answer (made while I was typing mine) gets to the heart of it nicely.

Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: craig on June 20, 2018, 08:29:56 PM
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/06/18/packers-rookie-receivers-grow-up-quickly-tom-silverstein/699950002/

"St. Brown said he has a photographic memory and so once he puts pen to paper, the play is in his head and he feels confident he’ll remember it."

I wonder how true that actually is, and to what degree it's actually helpful if so? 
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: The GM on June 21, 2018, 01:06:15 PM
There no such thing as a photographic memory.  Some people can just remember and absorb a lot of what they saw, but over time that info wont be as detailed as more is absorbed (sometimes much more). I know its a commonly used term, but it really doesnt exist. If he thinks it helps him  remember plays and stuff, good for him.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: claymaker on June 21, 2018, 01:25:12 PM
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/06/18/packers-rookie-receivers-grow-up-quickly-tom-silverstein/699950002/

"St. Brown said he has a photographic memory and so once he puts pen to paper, the play is in his head and he feels confident he’ll remember it."

I wonder how true that actually is, and to what degree it's actually helpful if so?

Went to Notre Dame. Graduated with a 4.0, speaks four languages... he's not lacking in intelligence to say the least.

There no such thing as a photographic memory.  Some people can just remember and absorb a lot of what they saw, but over time that info wont be as detailed as more is absorbed (sometimes much more). I know its a commonly used term, but it really doesnt exist. If he thinks it helps him  remember plays and stuff, good for him.

Everyone has a photographic memory to some extent. Someone with an actual Eidetic Memory has the ability to recall information without having actually learned it or "memorized" it. It is rare in adults but it does happen.
Title: Re: OTA notes
Post by: dannobanano on June 21, 2018, 01:39:24 PM
I was at a seminar one time where the speaker said that people typically only use about ~10% of their mental capabilities. (Not sure how they measure that?)

Same speaker said that James Campen was someone who was using 25% to 30% of his mind (He evaluated Campen when he was a New Orleans Saint)

The "average Joe" on the street has the capacity to memorize the entire Encyclopedia Britannica and still have used only 80% of our storage capacity. It's just that some are more capable at doing so.

It could be that ESB just maybe exercises a higher % of his minds capacity, and does so naturally.