June 18, 2018, 11:57:02 AM

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11
NFL Talk / Re: The Vikes have me worried
« Last post by ricky on June 17, 2018, 09:04:22 AM »
You guys will never learn will you.  The Patriots do it with defense.  Not Brady.  Put Brady on any other team except Pittsburgh, and he may have one ring.  Pats defense has averaged 18.7 points per game since Belicheat took over.  The only other team that comes close is Pittsburgh at 18.2 points per game over the same time period.   To put that in perspective, over that time period the Packers have averaged 21.1 points per game on defense.  In their last Super Bowl year, the Packs defense gave up 15 points per game.  And in 1996 when they won with Farve, 13.1 points per game on defense.   

Last year the Patriots ranked 29th in team defense. And made the SB. And lost because they benched Butler for unknown reasons, and a defensive play by the Eagles. I tried finding the defensive rankings for every SB year, but apparently will have to go year-by-year to amass that stat. I'll get back to you later.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2017&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

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NFL Talk / Re: The Vikes have me worried
« Last post by Twain on June 17, 2018, 07:08:48 AM »

You guys will never learn will you.  The Patriots do it with defense.  Not Brady.  Put Brady on any other team except Pittsburgh, and he may have one ring.  Pats defense has averaged 18.7 points per game since Belicheat took over.  The only other team that comes close is Pittsburgh at 18.2 points per game over the same time period.   To put that in perspective, over that time period the Packers have averaged 21.1 points per game on defense.  In their last Super Bowl year, the Packs defense gave up 15 points per game.  And in 1996 when they won with Farve, 13.1 points per game on defense.   

It is the part that almost no one admits these days- the quarterback can't win alone.  It is a team game.

That's why your Vikings are better positioned this year than any Packer fan wants to admit.
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Green Bay Packers News Talk / Re: OTA notes
« Last post by ricky on June 17, 2018, 06:17:14 AM »
OneTwoSixFive, so, Gutekunst has final say over the roster? With input from MM and the coaches? So, if the team lacks depth in any area, that is on Gutekunst. And if the players don't perform up to expectations, it would be MM's fault. However, if Gutekunst didn't give MM the best players possible, based on cost rather than performance, this would be Gutekunst's fault? Or MM's and the coaches for not doing their job well enough? And, to borrow a question someone else asked, if MM sees a player as being ready to play now, but Gutekunst sees a player at the same position with more "upside" and less cost, which one gets on the roster?

Now, to be fair and reasonable, no, I'm not asking you to answer these questions. But these are questions the power structure of the team will be facing in a few short months. How it all shakes out will be interesting. TT was well known for keeping younger, cheaper players as backups, and when they were call on to perform, they tended to be significantly less effective than the guys they were replacing. I'm not suggesting that every guy on the roster be starter quality- that is a pipe dream- but there is a built in conflict between "win now" and "we have to plan and save for the future."
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Green Bay Packers News Talk / Re: OTA notes
« Last post by OneTwoSixFive on June 17, 2018, 01:55:14 AM »
A question I have been interested in for years, ricky and Twain (and I have posted questions myself). I never got a proper answer.

With the lack of expert information, I came up with this.

Gute has final say on drafting, free agents etc (but not without plenty of communication with the coaches). He sets the financial ceiling for any veteran player acquisition - and Ball works within that. Ball also handles plenty of the higher level, day to day executive decision stuff, to keep Gute from being overloaded on non-football matters.

Gute has control of the cap and (again with consultation) is the final voice deciding which guys need to be let go for cap-cost vs performance reasons.

Gute also has final say on who is kept at cutdown time, but in practice he makes very few of those decisions each year, just the occasional guy who is let go for performance, financial and age reasons, guys like Nelson, Sitton, Lang, might have qualified if he had been GM then.

McCarthy, taking on board the recommendations of his coordinators, coaches and Gute himself, sets up the roster to his liking.

The key to the whole thing is clear areas of responsibility, coupled with excellent communication; between McCarthy with his 'tree' (coordinators and position coaches), and Gute with his tree (scouts, head of player personnel, cap manager etc) and Murphy with HIS tree (board, financial team, media stuff etc). If Murphy/McCarthy/Gutekunst can all work well, both with each other and within their trees, the only thing left to worry about is their talent level. If they work well together AND each have a high talent level, the organisation is on rock solid foundations.

Murphy's main responsibility is to keep the whole organisation ticking along well, financially, socially and with success on the field.
Gute's main responsibility is the roster and the cap health, now and in the future.
Ball's responsibility is to negotiate the best contract deals he can, within the maximum parameters Gute sets, and to take on plenty of the upper echelon executive work that is not pure football stuff.
McCarthy's responsibility is to deliver a successful product on the field and ensure the optimum levels of teaching/maintaining/broadening players abilities and performance. Part of that responsibility is also to speak to the press regularly, most particularly during the season.
15
On the Streets / Re: Mark's Movie Reviews
« Last post by marklawrence on June 16, 2018, 08:17:25 PM »
Incredibles 2:

The best superhero movie of the year. Better than Avengers 3. Lotsa action, humor the kids will get, humor the adults will get. Everybody in the theater loved it. Just go see it.

The plot barely matters. It's almost immediately after the Incredibles. Super heros are illegal and are in hiding. Then a rich guy comes along and says he's going to get the law reversed. A super villain conveniently appears and the fight is on. Mr.Incredible and Elastic Girl are married and have three kids: a sullen teenage girl with powers, a pre-teen out of control boy with powers, and an infant with a *lot* of powers. The infant steals every scene he's in.

ok, now that I've slept on it, perhaps Thor was better. Perhaps.
17
NFL Talk / Re: The Vikes have me worried
« Last post by raptorman on June 16, 2018, 07:41:44 PM »
Ricky,

Many of those Browns QB's were not drafted.  I would say half or more were trades or free agents.

Second, why not look at what Ron Wolf did.  I mean his record in QB evaluation speaks for itself.

Wold was a great evaluator of QB talent. His trade for Favre proved it. The additions of Brunell and others who went on to be starters elsewhere shows it. But that is the rare exception, not the rule. For every Luck or Wentz, there are many, many Bollers and Griffins and Vince  Youngs. This is too similar to the "trade Rodgers for a boatload of draft picks and draft his replacement" talk for my taste.

What Cousins did was to demand an unprecedented contract for the NFL. One that the Skins would not give in to.

Was Cousins indeed asking for too much? Did Washington bargain in good faith, or were they just depending on the franchise tag to keep him around, and hope something would turn up? So they sign Smith and give him $40 million this year. 34 years old, a lateral move at best as far as talent, and six years older than Cousins. OF course, this is the Danny Snyder (Call me MISTER Snyder) Washington.

 Why Minny gave it to him is puzzling to me.  I already said what I would have done, for varying reasons.  One of them being that Minny is a team based upon defense.  I think this will hurt them there, not this year but in the future.  Secondly, their very promising rookie RB is returning.  Third, they had three QBs already, they did not have to get rid of all of them.

Why give it to him? They are desperate to win now. They are all in for this year, and maybe next year. Because their team is loaded with young players who are going to be hitting the end of their rookie contracts in the next year or two. And they know their window is now or never.

But that is what the NFL has become these days.  Everyone wants their version of Tom Brady.  I guess they look back and say, "Hmm, BB was not that hot in Cleveland was he?  He goes to New England, has Bledsoe and Brady and turns into a genius.."

The thing is, Belichick also posted a 10-6 season with Matt Cassell, when Brady was IR'ed with a knee injury in the first game of the season. And the Patriots do it with constant roster turnover, letting big contract players go very often, and still win.

You guys will never learn will you.  The Patriots do it with defense.  Not Brady.  Put Brady on any other team except Pittsburgh, and he may have one ring.  Pats defense has averaged 18.7 points per game since Belicheat took over.  The only other team that comes close is Pittsburgh at 18.2 points per game over the same time period.   To put that in perspective, over that time period the Packers have averaged 21.1 points per game on defense.  In their last Super Bowl year, the Packs defense gave up 15 points per game.  And in 1996 when they won with Farve, 13.1 points per game on defense.   
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Green Bay Packers News Talk / Re: OTA notes
« Last post by ricky on June 16, 2018, 05:42:26 PM »
Posted a similar question earlier. Who sets the final roster?

That's a key question.  I don't think we know.  Who has the authority when Gute and MM disagree- I doubt Murphy is the decision maker on that one, but who knows?

I sent a question to Packers.com Inbox asking about who would set the final roster. Stay tuned.
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Green Bay Packers News Talk / Re: OTA notes
« Last post by craig on June 16, 2018, 02:03:08 PM »
...
Not an age thing at all craig. It is a motivation thing or in this case a lack of motivation thing. When signing FA's, they should arrive with the motivation ....

Not to belabor this too much further!  :) 

But, on what basis have you already concluded that Bell and Lewis lack motivation?  (Lewis seems to be ticked that Jacksonville let him go, so if the "prove them wrong" motivation is what's needed, maybe he DOES have that?)

Do you have inside scoop on Kendrick?  Or is your conclusion that his motives were "stealing" based on the combination of getting arrested for smoking pot, combined with his totally blah and non-impactful play on the field?  )It wouldn't at all surprise me if he was a slacker, and lacked motivation.  But I don't live in Green Bay or have anybody in-the-know telling me inside scoop on guys effort.)   I know Biegel had like totally zero noticeable impact when he played; but NOBODY translates that into meaning he's a slacker or lacking in motivation.  So, with Kendrick's sub-average play, I'm not sure whether to attribute that to lack of motivation (unlike Biegle) or lack of talent-skill (like last year's version of Biegel.) 

As for Kendrick, a point is that *IF* he's a lazy slacker, MM should know that now, even if he didn't last year.  You know more after you've had a guy around for a while, which can then better inform subsequent decisions. 
20
NFL Talk / Re: The Vikes have me worried
« Last post by ricky on June 16, 2018, 01:54:04 PM »
Ricky,

Many of those Browns QB's were not drafted.  I would say half or more were trades or free agents.

Second, why not look at what Ron Wolf did.  I mean his record in QB evaluation speaks for itself.

Wold was a great evaluator of QB talent. His trade for Favre proved it. The additions of Brunell and others who went on to be starters elsewhere shows it. But that is the rare exception, not the rule. For every Luck or Wentz, there are many, many Bollers and Griffins and Vince  Youngs. This is too similar to the "trade Rodgers for a boatload of draft picks and draft his replacement" talk for my taste.

What Cousins did was to demand an unprecedented contract for the NFL. One that the Skins would not give in to.

Was Cousins indeed asking for too much? Did Washington bargain in good faith, or were they just depending on the franchise tag to keep him around, and hope something would turn up? So they sign Smith and give him $40 million this year. 34 years old, a lateral move at best as far as talent, and six years older than Cousins. OF course, this is the Danny Snyder (Call me MISTER Snyder) Washington.

 Why Minny gave it to him is puzzling to me.  I already said what I would have done, for varying reasons.  One of them being that Minny is a team based upon defense.  I think this will hurt them there, not this year but in the future.  Secondly, their very promising rookie RB is returning.  Third, they had three QBs already, they did not have to get rid of all of them.

Why give it to him? They are desperate to win now. They are all in for this year, and maybe next year. Because their team is loaded with young players who are going to be hitting the end of their rookie contracts in the next year or two. And they know their window is now or never.

But that is what the NFL has become these days.  Everyone wants their version of Tom Brady.  I guess they look back and say, "Hmm, BB was not that hot in Cleveland was he?  He goes to New England, has Bledsoe and Brady and turns into a genius.."

The thing is, Belichick also posted a 10-6 season with Matt Cassell, when Brady was IR'ed with a knee injury in the first game of the season. And the Patriots do it with constant roster turnover, letting big contract players go very often, and still win.
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