August 19, 2018, 04:16:21 AM

Author Topic: Standing for the national anthem  (Read 1087 times)

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Online marklawrence

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Standing for the national anthem
« on: May 29, 2018, 03:43:30 AM »
I must admit I've personally been deeply offended by the players protesting during the national anthem. Now there's a new rule, all players must stand or the team gets penalized. I don't like this either.

I don't believe players have the right to express political views while at work if their bosses say no. For me this was never a first amendment issue, it was always a workplace issue. However, I have never had a job where the workday was started with playing the national anthem, and I never had a job where I was required to publicly stand for the national anthem. While I do stand in public, it's all different for me if suddenly i'm told i'm required as condition of employment.

If I were a team owner I would ask the players if they prefer to stay in the locker room for the anthem. I would have no tolerance for protesters, but neither would I feel good about enforcing this rule.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 03:46:03 AM by marklawrence »
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Offline ricky

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 06:01:55 AM »
As a retired teacher in Texas, I was expected to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance, and the Texas Pledge of Allegiance every day during class. It was also expected that every student stand and do the same. It was like pulling teeth from an enraged lion to get some of the students to comply. They'd stand reluctantly, sometimes leaning on their desks while the pledges were recited over the intercom, then slump into their desks immediately afterward. Forced displays of "patriotism" are nonsense. And as I've said before, if we're going to force the players to participate in this forced exercise in "patriotism", lets eject any spectator who isn't standing with hand over heart, dutifully mouthing those words. Shut down all concessions and lock up the restrooms and block the exits to prevent anyone from leaving until they've proven their worthiness to remain in the stadium by saying the pledge.

The NFL just made a bad situation worse. So, unless the entire team stays in the locker room, which would seem to be the best solution, lets castigate and boo those players who choose to do so.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline The GM

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2018, 09:38:29 AM »
I like the ruling.   I dont think the anthem should be used as a platform to promote a player's particular agenda whatever it may be (good or bad).   You can stay in the lockerroom and protest all you want.  Good for the NFL for at least trying to end the nonsense.  I'm sure it will still go on in some form, but IMO it has no place during the anthem.   

Offline Gregg

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 10:01:49 AM »
I agree with Mark.

I should also add, Colin K is finding out some interesting info during discovery for his lawsuit.

Plus, who the heck would not want Eric Reid in their secondary?

Offline ricky

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2018, 10:57:42 AM »
Players shouldn't protest what they see (correctly, I believe) an increased sense of fear and intimidation by the police in the black community. OK. Then exactly why is it that there have to be over displays of "patriotism", meaning military flyovers, military color guards, and huge flags (the bigger the more patriotic?) at games. Just because you're on a football team doesn't mean you've signed away your rights as a citizen. The protests were aimed at excessive police violence against the black community. Not the flag, not the military, not the anthem.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline The GM

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 11:06:06 AM »
I agree with Mark.

I should also add, Colin K is finding out some interesting info during discovery for his lawsuit.

Plus, who the heck would not want Eric Reid in their secondary?

Good players but they come with baggage.  Team are trying to win football games,  I'm not sure each individual owner wants to take that on the distraction or deal with a public that clearly doesn't like it.             

Offline Bignutz

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 11:04:02 PM »
It's totally a workplace issue. Not a 1st amendment issue. The NFL has every right to do this IMO. However I'll add that the NFL isn't doing this because they feel the players are disrespecting the flag. I think the NFL is doing this because ultimately the protests are hurting it's bottom line.

Offline RT

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2018, 05:40:25 AM »
It's totally a workplace issue. Not a 1st amendment issue. The NFL has every right to do this IMO. However I'll add that the NFL isn't doing this because they feel the players are disrespecting the flag. I think the NFL is doing this because ultimately the protests are hurting it's bottom line.

Thank you, 100% correctly capsulated in 5 sentences. Much ado about nothing.

Offline ricky

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2018, 06:20:54 AM »
It's totally a workplace issue. Not a 1st amendment issue. The NFL has every right to do this IMO. However I'll add that the NFL isn't doing this because they feel the players are disrespecting the flag. I think the NFL is doing this because ultimately the protests are hurting it's bottom line.

Thank you, 100% correctly capsulated in 5 sentences. Much ado about nothing.
.
The players do not think this is "Much ado about nothing." They are not happy about this. And now, teams and teammates have to make decisions on whether to take the field or stay in the locker room. This "issue" was dying on the vine until the flames were fanned by President Trump, who keep on bringing up the subject without prompting. Now, the NFL is being perceived as bowing to political pressure. The NFL made the situation worse, which seems to be their solution to everything- after all, this is the league which still can't define what constitutes a completion.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Online marklawrence

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2018, 07:39:13 AM »
Trump the mighty and all powerful commands you to bring him the broom of Al Davis, the wicked owner of the West.

Seriously, you think Roger listens to Trump?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 07:39:51 AM by marklawrence »
I'm a Deplorable Freeloader, clinging to my Guns and Bible! And Proud of it!

Offline ricky

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2018, 09:38:55 AM »
Trump the mighty and all powerful commands you to bring him the broom of Al Davis, the wicked owner of the West.

Seriously, you think Roger listens to Trump?

Yes. Of course, Trump gives the term "bully pulpit" a whole new meaning. Want more evidence that Goodell is willing to bow to pressure? Check out this report from PFT: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/30/jerry-jones-was-proud-to-see-joe-lockhart-go/
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 10:01:55 AM by ricky »
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline Twain

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2018, 02:54:44 PM »
I personally believe the NFL made a mistake when they changed from the old practice of playing the national anthem before the teams came out of the locker room.

I think they should go back to that.  Unlike the new rule, it eliminates the problem.
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Offline The GM

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2018, 04:25:18 PM »
I personally believe the NFL made a mistake when they changed from the old practice of playing the national anthem before the teams came out of the locker room.

I think they should go back to that.  Unlike the new rule, it eliminates the problem.

I'll be interested  on seeing if teams do a "all inside" or "all outside" for the anthem.  Also, whats the fan reaction going to be when the players inside (If they are divided, some in and some out) come onto the field after the anthem?  You are basically isolating the protesting players for a crowd reaction as they come out.  I like the rule in principle, but this could actually backfire on the NFL and/or the players.

Online marklawrence

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 10:59:50 PM »
You are basically isolating the protesting players for a crowd reaction as they come out.  I like the rule in principle, but this could actually backfire on the NFL and/or the players.

You mean like in 2008, when Wells Fargo didn't need any bailout, but the fed made them (and most everyone else) take one so that the bad banks wouldn't stand out?

. . .  And now it turns out Wells Fargo is the biggest scumbags of them all.

It's clear that either the entire team stands for the anthem, or the entire team sits in the locker room.

I think Kaepernick could get a job with ESPN where all he did was kneel for every single anthem, and ESPN could show that for all the people on the two coasts. He could get 32 jerseys and tell people he had been signed by every team. Until ESPN drops to such low ratings that they shut down. . .

(ps: some months ago I emptied my WF accounts and called to close them. I was referred to my branch and told only they could close then. I called my branch, they told me I had to come in. I told them I was 1800 miles away in Kansas City and that really wasn't happening. Then they told me I could go into a Kansas City branch. There aren't any, WF isn't in Missouri. They suggested I drive 700 miles to Denver. I suggested they attempt parthenogenesis.)
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Offline scoremore

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Re: Standing for the national anthem
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2018, 03:58:53 AM »
Goodell is such a moron.  OK the anthem thing is dying down.  So let's just make a new rule piss off the players and start it all over again.  Really stupid. Think everyone understands why the players were doing it.  That's not the issue.  Taking a knee is disrespecting the country.  Also the last thing football fans want to deal with is politics.  Especially from millionaire football players.

Anyway the moron Goodell just insured that this issue will now continue into 2018.  He is the absolute worst.  This issue should have been immediately nipped in the bud when Kap first started pulling this crap.  Had the commish had any balls he would have immediately suspended him.  But no he allows the issue to fester and then compounds it by passing a new rule just to revive protests for another season.

A large number of fans are really upset by this whole fiasco.  Many of which have decided to boycott the game.  The players are really ignorant.  They should realize where their bread is buttered and not upset the fan base.  There are much better ways to bring light to the issue they pretend to care so much about.  Taking a knee during the anthem was not the right way to go about it.  If the players are so concerned they should put their money where their mouth is and  take up the issue on their own time. 

Do they?  Nope.  Because deep down they don't care about anything but themselves.  See right through them an it's a joke.