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General Category => NFL Talk => Free Agency => Topic started by: AldenRoche on January 23, 2015, 10:12:07 AM

Title: Free Agency Works????
Post by: AldenRoche on January 23, 2015, 10:12:07 AM
In the past few years, once the offseason began for the Packers, certain folks rushed to make preemptive posts explaining why signing veteran free agents is the scourge of NFL franchises and why the Pack was so wise to mostly avoid free agency between 2006 and 2014.

Given what occurred in 2014 for our beloved Green & Gold (Peppers and Guion) the narrative that free agency does not work may change this offseason, but if it does return don't you believe. Here is some compelling evidence that free agency works and works quickly.

1) Seattle Seahawks: The entire line of the D that kept the Pack from reaching the Super Bowl consisted of players signed from other teams including Michael Bennett (Bucs), Cliff Avril (Lions), Kevin Williams (Vikes), Tony McDaniel (Dolphins), and O'Brien Schofield (cut by Cardinals).

2) New England Patriots: Big players in free agency and trades (like Seattle) for many years, the Pats added starting WR Brandon LaFell, CBs Brandon Browner & Darrelle Revis just last offseason. LeGarrette Blount, whom the Pats traded for in 2013, was added after being cut by the Steelers mid-season 2014.

3) Green Bay Packers: Yes, you read that correctly the GB Packers. Without Charles Woodson & Ryan Pickett they do not win the Super Bowl. Without buying high (Julius Peppers) and low (LeTroy Guion) last offseason they do not make the NFCC game.

TT has stocked the team quite well, but depending upon who goes and stays from the squad this offseason, the Packers absolutely should look to add some veteran talent at ILBer, DLine, TE/Physical WR (to help the red zone offense), P, and possibly even CB (if both House and T. Williams depart).
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Leader on January 23, 2015, 11:01:24 AM
Ya know Alden....you make me laugh.....
Have you ever heard of or read the novel: Slaughterhouse 5?
In it there's a character who throughout the story is taking down names of people who he feels have disagreed with or crossed him in the past.

He'd continually declared: "You're on my list!!"

You remind me of that character - with your posts that continually (and for no particular reason) reference "other posters" - as if they'd made your list - as if every comment is preface to a disagreement or argument even before its begun.

The character in the book - the "list maker" - wound up shooting and killing the lead character. Makes me wonder.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: FAH1223 on January 23, 2015, 11:33:48 AM
If we have to buy high this offseason, it'll have to be at ILB.

If we have to buy low somewhere, I'd say another DT
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Toddfather on January 23, 2015, 02:45:52 PM
It definitely works. In fact FA's have played major parts on our super bowl teams, and I think if Peppers sticks around next year would be a great shot for him to make it.

With that said draft and develop is still the way to go in this league. It's the way you keep your cap healthy so you can not only keep most of your players, but be able to get that one or two great FA that can really push you over the edge.

Another thing to add in regards to TT. He may be one of if not the best at the undrafted FA game.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: ricky on January 24, 2015, 06:33:59 AM
If used wisely, FA signings can help bolster a team. However, the draft and UFA's are the key to building and maintaining a consistently strong team. On the other hand, just look at what unbridled FA did to  Washington. Wait a year or two, and watch what happens in Denver. Or Dallas.

What seems to be happening is that there seems to be a perception problem. All of us want the Packers to be better. What some want is to sign "names"- players names they recognize- at any cost. Last year it was Jairus Byrd. A couple of years ago, it was Steven Jackson. And, a few years ago, some wanted to get Marshawn Lynch. Now, in hindsight, he would have been a good signing. But at the time of his FA, he was seen as a moody locker room cancer; a selfish player who was an accident waiting to happen. And the pros and cons of the signing of Lynch were hotly debated on this forum.

So, does TT dip into FA? Yes, when he believes he can get a player that can help the team, a player who will not cause problems, and, most importantly, a player who will not overstress the salary cap. Because a healthy salary cap is key to maintaining a contending team.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: dannobanano on January 24, 2015, 07:05:53 AM
If used wisely, FA signings can help bolster a team. However, the draft and UFA's are the key to building and maintaining a consistently strong team. On the other hand, just look at what unbridled FA did to  Washington. Wait a year or two, and watch what happens in Denver. Or Dallas. (or Seattle, I hope?)    ;D

What seems to be happening is that there seems to be a perception problem. All of us want the Packers to be better. What some want is to sign "names"- players names they recognize- at any cost. Last year it was Jairus Byrd. A couple of years ago, it was Steven Jackson. And, a few years ago, some wanted to get Marshawn Lynch. Now, in hindsight, he would have been a good signing. But at the time of his FA, he was seen as a moody locker room cancer; a selfish player who was an accident waiting to happen. And the pros and cons of the signing of Lynch were hotly debated on this forum.

So, does TT dip into FA? Yes, when he believes he can get a player that can help the team, a player who will not cause problems, and, most importantly, a player who will not overstress the salary cap. Because a healthy salary cap is key to maintaining a contending team.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Hincha on January 24, 2015, 08:01:57 AM
Ya know Alden....you make me laugh.....

I actually enjoy AldenĀ“s posts, they challenge some of the opinions I have and make me think on the subject at times.

Regarding free agency...

- I like Packers draft and develop emphasis
- Priority this year IMO is Cobb and Bulaga... they are both FA and they are the first 2 I would like back if possible... House also interests me.
- If they look into other free agents... ILB and DL would be the 2 positions that peak my interest... but prefer to attack it like Baltimore, looking at FA cut that do not compromise compensatory picks (like Peppers and Guion last year).  Other free agents would have to be someone that is bargain and not gathering interest elsewhere for some reason... Green Bay is not a destination of choice for FAs.

Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Leader on January 24, 2015, 08:36:25 AM
With that said draft and develop is still the way to go in this league. It's the way you keep your cap healthy so you can not only keep most of your players, but be able to get that one or two great FA that can really push you over the edge.

Frankly, its the only game in town for GB. Lets face it folks - we've had more history than necessary to predict the future on this point: GB is not the garden spot for NFL FA's.
A team thats consistently winning or in the hunt is consistently shunned by FA's for other destinations. In a "parity league" part of that equation is the salary cap and minus mishandling or spikes in a given year, each team has the same cap level. Its how its managed (given the demands of its players) that differentiate the teams from one another.

GB's got to stay young and constantly "refreshing" its roster / cap. It is in fact and for all intents and purposes will remain a small market.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Twain on January 24, 2015, 11:29:44 AM
I apologize for the snark, but I have been planning on this reply since Alden put this type of post up again last year.  So, I will modify his post a bit:

In the past few years, once the offseason began for the Packers, certain folks rushed to make preemptive posts explaining why signing veteran free agents is the scourge plan of choice of NFL franchises and why the Pack was so unwise to mostly avoid free agency between 2006 and 2014.

Given what occurred in 2014 for our beloved Green & Gold (Peppers and Guion) the narrative that free agency does not work may change this offseason, but if it does return don't you believe. Here is some compelling evidence that free agency doesn't necessarily work and doesn't necessarily work quickly.

1) Tampa Bay Buccaneers:  Winners of the first overall pick in the draft, their 2014 free agent class included Alteraun Verner, Brandon Myers, Clinton McDonald, Josh McCown, Michael Johnson, Anthony Collins, Jason Williams, Evan Dietrich Smith, Oneil Cousins, Mike Jenkins, and Louis Murphy.

2) Tennessee Titans:  Their 2014 free agency class included Al Woods, Dexter McCluster, Wesley Woodyard, Charlie Whitehurst, Jordan Palmer, Jamon Meridith, and Michael Oher.  They brought in much needed veteran leadership, which propelled the team to a 2-14 record.

3) Oakland Raiders.  Yes, you read that correctly, the Oakland Raiders with future hall of fame DB Charles Woodson.  Their 2014 class included Lamar Woodley, Justin Tuck, Austin Howard, Antonio Smith, Tarell Brown, James jones, Kevin Boothe, Donald Penn, and CJ Wilson.  They came together to achieve a 4-12 record.

TT has stocked the team quite well, but depending upon who goes and stays from the squad this offseason, the Packers absolutely should look to add some veteran increase talent at ILBer, DLine, TE/Physical WR (to help the red zone offense), P, and possibly even CB (if both House and T. Williams depart).

Funny how it works.  There are far more teams with losing records making heavy use of free agency than there are teams doing better than Green Bay. 

The key is to add talent at a reasonable price,  To win in the salary cap era, a team has to have players that out perform their rookie contracts.  Judicious use of free agency is helpful, but just bringing in "veteran talent" is no guarantee of success. 

We have "veteran talent" at ILB.  Unfortunately, it has not been talented enough.  No guarantee that someone else's cast offs will be talented enough, as the above three teams have shown.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Leader on January 24, 2015, 01:27:03 PM
I apologize for the snark, but I have been planning on this reply since Alden put this type of post up again last year.  So, I will modify his post a bit:

In the past few years, once the offseason began for the Packers, certain folks rushed to make preemptive posts explaining why signing veteran free agents is the scourge plan of choice of NFL franchises and why the Pack was so unwise to mostly avoid free agency between 2006 and 2014.

Given what occurred in 2014 for our beloved Green & Gold (Peppers and Guion) the narrative that free agency does not work may change this offseason, but if it does return don't you believe. Here is some compelling evidence that free agency doesn't necessarily work and doesn't necessarily work quickly.

1) Tampa Bay Buccaneers:  Winners of the first overall pick in the draft, their 2014 free agent class included Alteraun Verner, Brandon Myers, Clinton McDonald, Josh McCown, Michael Johnson, Anthony Collins, Jason Williams, Evan Dietrich Smith, Oneil Cousins, Mike Jenkins, and Louis Murphy.

2) Tennessee Titans:  Their 2014 free agency class included Al Woods, Dexter McCluster, Wesley Woodyard, Charlie Whitehurst, Jordan Palmer, Jamon Meridith, and Michael Oher.  They brought in much needed veteran leadership, which propelled the team to a 2-14 record.

3) Oakland Raiders.  Yes, you read that correctly, the Oakland Raiders with future hall of fame DB Charles Woodson.  Their 2014 class included Lamar Woodley, Justin Tuck, Austin Howard, Antonio Smith, Tarell Brown, James jones, Kevin Boothe, Donald Penn, and CJ Wilson.  They came together to achieve a 4-12 record.

TT has stocked the team quite well, but depending upon who goes and stays from the squad this offseason, the Packers absolutely should look to add some veteran increase talent at ILBer, DLine, TE/Physical WR (to help the red zone offense), P, and possibly even CB (if both House and T. Williams depart).

Funny how it works.  There are far more teams with losing records making heavy use of free agency than there are teams doing better than Green Bay. 

The key is to add talent at a reasonable price,  To win in the salary cap era, a team has to have players that out perform their rookie contracts.  Judicious use of free agency is helpful, but just bringing in "veteran talent" is no guarantee of success. 

We have "veteran talent" at ILB.  Unfortunately, it has not been talented enough.  No guarantee that someone else's cast offs will be talented enough, as the above three teams have shown.

This is truly a generalization, but its my belief that a "winning team" or organization - starts at the very top with talent evalutation/selection and cap management. Its probably a fair assumption that perennial losers or underachievers are those that have unrest, instability or simply poor decision making up top.

Insertion of veteran talent to plug a hole - definitely a winning scenario is a limited sense. The "plugs" gotta be considered - and in GB's case - has to fit its overall cap management scheme i.e. - not go for broke (read: DEN) but fit / fill in smoothly with the D+D process.

I very much hope Peppers has another year in him like 2014 and we can get an ILB to resolve the middle. We're set at centerfield (safety) - now we need that playmaker in the middle.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: cpk1994 on January 24, 2015, 01:49:58 PM
If used wisely, FA signings can help bolster a team. However, the draft and UFA's are the key to building and maintaining a consistently strong team. On the other hand, just look at what unbridled FA did to  Washington. Wait a year or two, and watch what happens in Denver. Or Dallas.
Better yet, look what FA did to Minnesota. They spent over a $100 million on 3 FA OL while spending $20Million plus on the defense while topping that all off with about 20 million to Brett Favre. What they ended up with was a big fat zip in the Super Bowl department while setting the team back years.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Pack2SB on January 25, 2015, 09:31:55 AM
If used wisely, FA signings can help bolster a team. However, the draft and UFA's are the key to building and maintaining a consistently strong team. On the other hand, just look at what unbridled FA did to  Washington. Wait a year or two, and watch what happens in Denver. Or Dallas.
Better yet, look what FA did to Minnesota. They spent over a $100 million on 3 FA OL while spending $20Million plus on the defense while topping that all off with about 20 million to Brett Favre. What they ended up with was a big fat zip in the Super Bowl department while setting the team back years.

But they did get close except didn't BF kind of blow it at the end of the game against the Saints?
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Leader on February 26, 2015, 05:09:05 AM
Wont happen for a number of reasons....but anybody think Reggie Bush (a healthy Reggie Bush that is....) would integrate into our offensive attack?
Wouldn't mind the market disappearing on him and a chance to get him cheap. I wouldn't care if he ever ran the ball again - his proven pass catching ability would help diversify our offense. Can never have too many weapons!  :)
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: cpk1994 on February 26, 2015, 05:34:39 AM
If used wisely, FA signings can help bolster a team. However, the draft and UFA's are the key to building and maintaining a consistently strong team. On the other hand, just look at what unbridled FA did to  Washington. Wait a year or two, and watch what happens in Denver. Or Dallas.
Better yet, look what FA did to Minnesota. They spent over a $100 million on 3 FA OL while spending $20Million plus on the defense while topping that all off with about 20 million to Brett Favre. What they ended up with was a big fat zip in the Super Bowl department while setting the team back years.

But they did get close except didn't BF kind of blow it at the end of the game against the Saints?
Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. The historical record shows that Vikes have a big fat zip to show for all that money they spent on FA.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Kepler on February 26, 2015, 04:02:58 PM
Wont happen for a number of reasons....but anybody think Reggie Bush (a healthy Reggie Bush that is....) would integrate into our offensive attack?
Wouldn't mind the market disappearing on him and a chance to get him cheap. I wouldn't care if he ever ran the ball again - his proven pass catching ability would help diversify our offense. Can never have too many weapons!  :)

I really hope GB can get him for cheap. You're right he adds a dimension we haven't had. Sign him and draft a big, speedy WR or TE and the pack could break records
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: ricky on February 26, 2015, 07:36:07 PM
Better yet, look what FA did to Minnesota. They spent over a $100 million on 3 FA OL while spending $20Million plus on the defense while topping that all off with about 20 million to Brett Favre. What they ended up with was a big fat zip in the Super Bowl department while setting the team back years.

And lets not forget Philly's "dream team".
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: SSG on February 27, 2015, 03:42:35 PM
Better yet, look what FA did to Minnesota. They spent over a $100 million on 3 FA OL while spending $20Million plus on the defense while topping that all off with about 20 million to Brett Favre. What they ended up with was a big fat zip in the Super Bowl department while setting the team back years.

I'm not sure you can point to Free Agency as the reason why they don't have a Super Bowl.  This is a team that spent high draft picks on Christian Ponder and Tavris Jackson to be franchise QBs.  The single time they had a franchise QB in the last 15 years they got just as far as we did last year using the draft and develop philosophy. 

They weren't set back years for signing Free Agents they were set back years because they've missed on every single QB they've tried to draft.  It isn't like they've had the luxury of having hall of fame QBs for the last 20+ years. If Minnesota drafts Aaron Rodgers instead of Erasmus James they are likely celebrated for signing great players like Allen, Sharper, Hutchingson and Winfield as they likely have at least one Super Bowl.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: maxman44 on March 11, 2015, 11:27:02 AM
This market is crazy - Eagles, Bills, Jets, Jags - Wow
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Leader on March 11, 2015, 12:03:40 PM
This market is crazy - Eagles, Bills, Jets, Jags - Wow

Good for them :)
Three AFC teams (two AFC East - finally - take that NE!)
And one NFC East team whose roster is gonna take awhile to figure out.
Perhaps it was a good thing Gore backed out of the Philly arrangement. Would have been interesting to see how he held up at such a pace.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Hands on March 11, 2015, 12:15:56 PM
It appears that Chip Kelly is definitely wanting to go another direction with the Eagles than any other team in the NFL. I see how he wants to get the best on both lines making his roster cap very low as long as he can get his difference makers at a cheap price.
I just don't think he can do it, but will be interesting to watch.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Leader on March 11, 2015, 05:54:50 PM
From NFL.com ::


Best and worst value signings of free agency
Here are three GMs that received high grades in free agency thus far with their buying decisions, and three that could use some help.

FINANCIALLY SAVVY

1. Darrelle Revis, DB, New York Jets
2. Mike Iupati, G, Arizona Cardinals
3. Ryan Mathews, RB, Philadelphia Eagles:
Honorable mention: Bryan Bulaga, Andre Johnson, Shane Vereen

BLIND SPENDERS

1. Ndamukong Suh, DT, Miami Dolphins
2. Julius Thomas, TE, Jacksonville Jaguars
3. Dwayne Harris, KR/WR, New York Giants
Honorable mention: Jeremy Maclin, Torrey Smith, Pernell McPhee.


Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: BIG LEGEND on March 11, 2015, 08:31:51 PM
Signing your own guys is great, but Ted does not add that key piece or two on a consistent enough basis through free agency in my opinion. Cobb and Bulaga took anywhere from 1 - 2.5 million per year less by reupping with GB if you believe what has been reported - Thank You AR! Without this QB in play,  these guys walk. In reality TT offered contracts that were indeed below market value, and these guys stayed because of this teams signal caller. With A guy like AR around, I really believe you have to do whatever needs to be done on a YEARLY basis to try and achieve the ultimate goal, and thats not winning the division or making the playoffs. I am not trying to make a case for throwing all kinds of cash at these free agents, but this regime should be a bit more active in adding to this team through free agency, because its not like they dont ever have the means to do so. This is about being more than just playoff participant, it should be aboout trying to win the Super Bowl every year as long as they have AR under center, and I really believe Thompson concerns himself to much with how this team will look in 3 or 4 years instead of what do I have to do to give this team the best chance to win the Super Bowl this year. A perfect example for me is that as I am writing this, there are two very good D-tackles available that are clearly better than what the Packers have and although they wont be bargains, they won't break the bank either. Ted don't go wild, but you should be a bit more active than you are
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Kepler on March 12, 2015, 08:15:55 AM
From NFL.com ::


Best and worst value signings of free agency
Here are three GMs that received high grades in free agency thus far with their buying decisions, and three that could use some help.

FINANCIALLY SAVVY

1. Darrelle Revis, DB, New York Jets
2. Mike Iupati, G, Arizona Cardinals
3. Ryan Mathews, RB, Philadelphia Eagles:
Honorable mention: Bryan Bulaga, Andre Johnson, Shane Vereen

BLIND SPENDERS

1. Ndamukong Suh, DT, Miami Dolphins
2. Julius Thomas, TE, Jacksonville Jaguars
3. Dwayne Harris, KR/WR, New York Giants
Honorable mention: Jeremy Maclin, Torrey Smith, Pernell McPhee.

Does this not include Cobb because he was locked up just before FA started?
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Leader on March 12, 2015, 08:18:26 AM
From NFL.com ::


Best and worst value signings of free agency
Here are three GMs that received high grades in free agency thus far with their buying decisions, and three that could use some help.

FINANCIALLY SAVVY

1. Darrelle Revis, DB, New York Jets
2. Mike Iupati, G, Arizona Cardinals
3. Ryan Mathews, RB, Philadelphia Eagles:
Honorable mention: Bryan Bulaga, Andre Johnson, Shane Vereen

BLIND SPENDERS

1. Ndamukong Suh, DT, Miami Dolphins
2. Julius Thomas, TE, Jacksonville Jaguars
3. Dwayne Harris, KR/WR, New York Giants
Honorable mention: Jeremy Maclin, Torrey Smith, Pernell McPhee.

Does this not include Cobb because he was locked up just before FA started?

Could be...no clue.
Title: Re: Free Agency Works????
Post by: Shinesman on March 13, 2015, 04:25:18 PM
Signing your own guys is great, but Ted does not add that key piece or two on a consistent enough basis through free agency in my opinion. Cobb and Bulaga took anywhere from 1 - 2.5 million per year less by reupping with GB if you believe what has been reported - Thank You AR! Without this QB in play,  these guys walk. In reality TT offered contracts that were indeed below market value, and these guys stayed because of this teams signal caller. With A guy like AR around, I really believe you have to do whatever needs to be done on a YEARLY basis to try and achieve the ultimate goal, and thats not winning the division or making the playoffs. I am not trying to make a case for throwing all kinds of cash at these free agents, but this regime should be a bit more active in adding to this team through free agency, because its not like they dont ever have the means to do so. This is about being more than just playoff participant, it should be aboout trying to win the Super Bowl every year as long as they have AR under center, and I really believe Thompson concerns himself to much with how this team will look in 3 or 4 years instead of what do I have to do to give this team the best chance to win the Super Bowl this year. A perfect example for me is that as I am writing this, there are two very good D-tackles available that are clearly better than what the Packers have and although they wont be bargains, they won't break the bank either. Ted don't go wild, but you should be a bit more active than you are

this has been a sentiment here for awhile