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General Category => Rant and Vent => Topic started by: Donzo on January 10, 2017, 05:03:23 AM

Title: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Donzo on January 10, 2017, 05:03:23 AM
In my opinion short of the first two things turning around in a hurry we're going to struggle to make the playoffs. We are probably going to be underdogs in the following games: @ Atlanta, @ Washington, @ Philadelphia, Seattle and Minnesota. Possibly be dogs @ Detroit in the final game of the season.

Dude, are you ever right?

 hysterical
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Twain on January 10, 2017, 06:47:47 AM
I think the take home message here is that some fans want to discuss the disappointing aspects of where a team is in the moment, and that is OK.  That being said, just because others take a more positive view, they aren't necessarily blinded by "green and gold goggles", and shouldn't be labelled as such.  It is ok to be frustrated in the moment, and it is also OK to be optimistic or more open to the possibilities that things will get better.

Hey, as perfect as we are, even the members of Packerchatters get it wrong once in a while. ;)
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Kepler on January 10, 2017, 08:48:04 AM
I think the take home message here is that some fans want to discuss the disappointing aspects of where a team is in the moment, and that is OK.  That being said, just because others take a more positive view, they aren't necessarily blinded by "green and gold goggles", and shouldn't be labelled as such.  It is ok to be frustrated in the moment, and it is also OK to be optimistic or more open to the possibilities that things will get better.

Hey, as perfect as we are, even the members of Packerchatters get it wrong once in a while. ;)

I think this is right. No need to skewer anyone after the fact, which is what I believe you're saying. I'll add there's really no need to skewer anyone, not only after the fact but during as well.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: ricky on January 10, 2017, 02:58:02 PM
To answer the thread's question: Yes, we're a playoff team. Done. Back when the question was initially posed - things didnt look so good - so opinions reflecting that reality were expressed. Is there a problem with that? Aren't realistic assessments and opinions what we want to read?  I do at least. We're in and have a another game in a few days. Thats a good thing IMO

Agreed. Why are we revisiting these earlier threads? Recall, at one point the team was 4-6, and had lost four in a row, three of them in blowout fashion. So, some people, including me, overreacted? Well, we're human. We make mistakes. Want a mea culpa? There. You've got it. It seems though that golfman is being unfairly pilloried for his earlier comments. Was he wrong? Sure- in hindsight. But then again, that's always 20/20. And for one poster in particular to take particular glee in chastising golfman is in poor taste. 

And for what it's worth, my wife does a killer imitation of Mora's "Playoffs?!?" rant that always cracks me up.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: B on January 10, 2017, 03:10:45 PM
Why revisit earlier threads? Because they often contain interesting information.

Golf posed a question and started an interesting thread. At the time, I thought Hell yes we are a playoff team, but we sure aren't consistently playing like one.

Football games and seasons are intensely competitive. Playoff teams keep the faith and keep fighting. Pretenders like the Vikings (and many others) start whining and panicking.

Fans can question and throw in the towel all they want - they have little to no impact on team performance. I am not disrespecting anyone by bringing up this or any other thread that is football discussion worthy. I own my opinions - sometimes they are correct, sometimes they are wrong - but I am always willing to own them. How is it a problem for some to have to do the same?
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Donzo on January 13, 2017, 03:23:19 AM
Aren't realistic assessments and opinions what we want to read?  I do at least. We're in and have a another game in a few days. Thats a good thing IMO

Yes, realistic assessments are great… The agenda driven carping, void of analysis and assessments, isn't so great.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Donzo on January 15, 2017, 05:47:27 PM
The fact that we have one of the leagues worst offenses, I'm not sure we're a playoff team.

Best post ever!

 hysterical
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: ricky on January 15, 2017, 06:30:44 PM
The fact that we have one of the leagues worst offenses, I'm not sure we're a playoff team.

Best post ever!

 hysterical

Well, trolling after the fact is cheap and easy. I went through the entire thread, and your first post on this subject was on January 10. If you were so confident that the team might turn it around, why didn't you post that earlier? Of course, that might have opened you up to criticism, or being laughed at, or told you were delusional. Some of us never gave up, and wrote about hope during the darkest times.

Did some people get it wrong? Sure. But at least they had the guts to put their opinions on the line, at the time, knowing they might well look foolish later on. Coming on after the fact and laughing at how others were wrong is unbecoming.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: B on January 15, 2017, 06:41:26 PM
ricky, how is it trolling???

If people's egos are so fragile that they can't take facing their own pessimism when things are down that's too bad for them...

For Christ's sake is it that hard to stand behind ones own words???

Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: bbayley on January 15, 2017, 07:21:31 PM
The fact that we have one of the leagues worst offenses, I'm not sure we're a playoff team.

Best post ever!

 hysterical

For reference, at the time of SSG's post, this is what was being said by other major sites:

http://powerrankingsguru.com/NFL/Teams/Green-Bay-Packers/week-7.html
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: B on January 15, 2017, 07:32:13 PM
The fact that we have one of the leagues worst offenses, I'm not sure we're a playoff team.

Best post ever!

 hysterical

For reference, at the time of SSG's post, this is what was being said by other major sites:

http://powerrankingsguru.com/NFL/Teams/Green-Bay-Packers/week-7.html
And your point is? At that point the Packers average power rating was 9.3 out of 32 teams. Yes they're improved, and they're now in the final four

Competing to bring the Lombardi back home where it belongs.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: bbayley on January 15, 2017, 08:03:27 PM
The fact that we have one of the leagues worst offenses, I'm not sure we're a playoff team.

Best post ever!

 hysterical

For reference, at the time of SSG's post, this is what was being said by other major sites:

http://powerrankingsguru.com/NFL/Teams/Green-Bay-Packers/week-7.html
And your point is? At that point the Packers average power rating was 9.3 out of 32 teams. Yes they're improved, and they're now in the final four

Competing to bring the Lombardi back home where it belongs.

I'm saying that bringing up a quote about the offense struggling from 3 months ago, while the media seemed to agree (thus posting the link), and then calling it the 'best quote' now that the offense is rolling, is a bit mis-guided.  That's all
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Donzo on January 16, 2017, 04:40:40 AM
I'm saying that bringing up a quote about the offense struggling from 3 months ago, while the media seemed to agree (thus posting the link), and then calling it the 'best quote' now that the offense is rolling, is a bit mis-guided.  That's all

You're on a slippery slope here. You take posters to task for what they say all the time. Yet, when certain other posters do the same thing, you have issues with it- there's a word for that and it's not a good word.

You can piss and moan about this all you like, but playing the victim card is ridiculous. Like you, the poster I quoted loves to bellyache and power whine about players and coaches. So, when you're reminded of your bellyaching and power whining, just own it... Certainly don't play the victim card.

You changed the context of my quote. My quote didn't reference the Packers struggling offence, the offense was struggling... I quoted a statement about the Packers having one of the leagues worst offenses (  hysterical ), which was and is preposterous.

Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: ricky on January 16, 2017, 06:49:35 AM
ricky, how is it trolling???

If people's egos are so fragile that they can't take facing their own pessimism when things are down that's too bad for them...

For Christ's sake is it that hard to stand behind ones own words???

Waiting until the Packers have made the playoffs, then mocking those who doubted is trolling. It's an easy, cheap way to make yourself feel good at the expense of others. The problem being that Donzo offered NO opinion until January 10. Where was this poster earlier? What were this poster's thoughts? In effect, Donzo is going "Told you so!" when there is no evidence of Donzo's beliefs before making the playoffs and beating the Giants. That, to me is trolling.

Being held accountable, and being laughed at for being incorrect by someone who refused to post an opinion prior to a playoff win are very, very different things.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: BartyorBarrySmith on January 16, 2017, 07:24:21 AM
If you are a glass-half-full fan then you point out the contradictions to the empty-glassers, when it happens. If for instance, you believed the Packers shouldn't panic and should allow Mason Crosby to work his way out of his slump (years back) ... or if you believe in a general principle that players can get better with experience, or that hurt players can get better (current cornerbacks) -- or that because a player has a couple injuries, doesn't mean that their careers are over (about 15 recent Packers) -- then pointing out the contradicting evidence is part of making a larger point. 

One argument that I will always "troll" as you call it -- is the argument to: lose and fire the coach/GM and get a high draft pick. Losing is no path to winning but many fans are seduced by the thought of burning down the house and starting over. This year is another reminder of how wrong that is.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Twain on January 16, 2017, 07:30:39 AM
Face it, the amygdala in some posters has less inhibitory input than others.  No need to make fun of them.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Leader on January 16, 2017, 07:42:50 AM
Face it, the amygdala in some posters has less inhibitory input than others.  No need to make fun of them.

Word check:  The amygdalae (singular: amygdala; /əˈmɪɡdələ/; also corpus amygdaloideum; Latin, from Greek ἀμυγδαλή, amygdalē, 'almond', 'tonsil'[1]) are two almond-shaped groups of nuclei located deep and medially within the temporal lobes of the brain in complex vertebrates, including humans.[2] Shown in research to perform a primary role in the processing of memory, decision-making, and emotional reactions, the amygdalae are considered part of the limbic system.[3]

 :)
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: bbayley on January 16, 2017, 07:57:30 AM
You can piss and moan about this all you like, but playing the victim card is ridiculous. Like you, the poster I quoted loves to bellyache and power whine about players and coaches. So, when you're reminded of your bellyaching and power whining, just own it... Certainly don't play the victim card.

That was my way of trying to be nice about it, not play the victim card.  You can see my first response to your trolling was to just point you what the media was saying at the time of SSG's post, no comments related to you making fun of SSG's posts.  When B, who adds quite a bit to this site, asked what the point was, I elaborated in a pretty easy going manner that I didn't think cherry picking a quote that was fairly accurate (IMO along with the media as you can see) was fair.

So feel free to tell me I'm going down a slippery slope or whatever, but it takes all of 2 clicks to view a members posts.  While I don't like Randall and state my case on those, maybe too far at times, at least I put in stats and on this last one, some screen shots to show my point.  Your posts are literally about 50% making fun of others on here with about 10% being actual relevant discussion.  If you want to chime in when the team is 4-6 and looking like they're not going to make the playoffs, and you end up being right, feel free to give us all the business.  But as Ricky has pointed out as well, just waiting until the end of the year to cherry pick one isn't exactly reasonable.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: cheech on January 16, 2017, 08:37:07 AM
To the "I told you so" group:

4-6 happened.  The offensive incompetence that had extended to the previous year happened.  To ridicule people for being upset about that mess after the turnaround is pretty shallow. 

The turnaround also happened.  Mike McCarthy dumped the no-huddle.  He dumped the isolation route offense that was the root cause of the offensive incompetence.  It immediately sparked Rodgers hot streak.  The first few games in the old offensive scheme we saw Rodgers getting the ball out of his hands on time and in rhythm.  As Rodgers heated up the 15-20 yard completions started to come back again.    McCarthy also incorporated playmakers into the slot position instead of giving Richard Rodgers 80% of the snaps.  Rather fortunate injuries to Lacy, Starks, and Don Jackson paved the way to Montgomery filling the #1 RB role better than anyone could guessed.  We now have a back that is averaging over 5 yards per carry but can also split out wide vs. an inside backer and be an immediate mismatch in the passing game.  Allison forced his way onto the field and has come up huge as a possession receiver. 

A LOT has happened since 4-6.  McCarthy deserves a ton of credit for the turnaround.  He also deserved the heat he received when the offense wasn't getting it done. 

Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: Twain on January 16, 2017, 08:51:05 AM
To the "I told you so" group:

4-6 happened.  The offensive incompetence that had extended to the previous year happened.  To ridicule people for being upset about that mess after the turnaround is pretty shallow. 

The turnaround also happened.  Mike McCarthy dumped the no-huddle.  He dumped the isolation route offense that was the root cause of the offensive incompetence.  It immediately sparked Rodgers hot streak.  The first few games in the old offensive scheme we saw Rodgers getting the ball out of his hands on time and in rhythm.  As Rodgers heated up the 15-20 yard completions started to come back again.    McCarthy also incorporated playmakers into the slot position instead of giving Richard Rodgers 80% of the snaps.  Rather fortunate injuries to Lacy, Starks, and Don Jackson paved the way to Montgomery filling the #1 RB role better than anyone could guessed.  We now have a back that is averaging over 5 yards per carry but can also split out wide vs. an inside backer and be an immediate mismatch in the passing game.  Allison forced his way onto the field and has come up huge as a possession receiver. 

A LOT has happened since 4-6.  McCarthy deserves a ton of credit for the turnaround.  He also deserved the heat he received when the offense wasn't getting it done.

With all due respect Cheech, we can all learn from this.

We are all a bit too certain of our opinions, and as such argue opinion like it is fact.

Some even say they are rarely wrong but admit it when they are, and then don't.

Maybe in the future we can accept that everyone gets their opinion, and choose to disagree without being disagreeable.

Time to let this issue go, IMO.
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: SSG on January 16, 2017, 08:51:28 AM

That was my way of trying to be nice about it, not play the victim card.  You can see my first response to your trolling was to just point you what the media was saying at the time of SSG's post, no comments related to you making fun of SSG's posts.  When B, who adds quite a bit to this site, asked what the point was, I elaborated in a pretty easy going manner that I didn't think cherry picking a quote that was fairly accurate (IMO along with the media as you can see) was fair.

So feel free to tell me I'm going down a slippery slope or whatever, but it takes all of 2 clicks to view a members posts.  While I don't like Randall and state my case on those, maybe too far at times, at least I put in stats and on this last one, some screen shots to show my point.  Your posts are literally about 50% making fun of others on here with about 10% being actual relevant discussion.  If you want to chime in when the team is 4-6 and looking like they're not going to make the playoffs, and you end up being right, feel free to give us all the business.  But as Ricky has pointed out as well, just waiting until the end of the year to cherry pick one isn't exactly reasonable.

No one's playing the victim card.  If they want to pull posts up from months ago when they weren't man or women enough to post their opinions, more power to them.  Its easy to laugh at others when you were too scared to post your opinion.  A couple of the "I told you so after the fact" crowd were MIA for damn near 80% of the season.  It's all good.  I welcome them back.  There is plenty of room left on the bandwagon for them.  I may have been critical about things this year, but my support has never waivered and I've been here every week.  I guess its easier to turn your fandom on and off for some  thumbsup)
Title: Re: struggle to make the playoffs.
Post by: cpk1994 on January 16, 2017, 10:35:06 AM

That was my way of trying to be nice about it, not play the victim card.  You can see my first response to your trolling was to just point you what the media was saying at the time of SSG's post, no comments related to you making fun of SSG's posts.  When B, who adds quite a bit to this site, asked what the point was, I elaborated in a pretty easy going manner that I didn't think cherry picking a quote that was fairly accurate (IMO along with the media as you can see) was fair.

So feel free to tell me I'm going down a slippery slope or whatever, but it takes all of 2 clicks to view a members posts.  While I don't like Randall and state my case on those, maybe too far at times, at least I put in stats and on this last one, some screen shots to show my point.  Your posts are literally about 50% making fun of others on here with about 10% being actual relevant discussion.  If you want to chime in when the team is 4-6 and looking like they're not going to make the playoffs, and you end up being right, feel free to give us all the business.  But as Ricky has pointed out as well, just waiting until the end of the year to cherry pick one isn't exactly reasonable.

No one's playing the victim card.  If they want to pull posts up from months ago when they weren't man or women enough to post their opinions, more power to them.  Its easy to laugh at others when you were too scared to post your opinion.  A couple of the "I told you so after the fact" crowd were MIA for damn near 80% of the season.  It's all good.  I welcome them back.  There is plenty of room left on the bandwagon for them.  I may have been critical about things this year, but my support has never waivered and I've been here every week.  I guess its easier to turn your fandom on and off for some  thumbsup)
This is such garbage. You are the last person who should be getting on anyone for being MIA. Usually, you  are nowhere to be found when the Packers are winning, so thanks for finally growing a set once. So, don't give me this "I have been here every week" garbage.

Second, I was the one here who insisted repeatedly that the Packers would win the division while you and many others were screaming for TT, MM & DC to be fired. I was the one who insisted that there was no rift between Rodgers and MM while you and others continued to scream otherwise. You are the last person who should be lecturing ANYONE on how to be a fan because you are one of the biggest bandwagoners here.