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General Category => Green Bay Packers News Talk => Topic started by: scoremore on March 05, 2018, 12:17:53 PM

Title: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 05, 2018, 12:17:53 PM
Well something new to talk about.

https://sports.yahoo.com/m/6e9d5e9b-b094-3319-bfbb-5250e6c078f8/ss_packers-expected-to-meet-with.html

He he is motivated would be one hell of an addition to the DL.  Glad Gute is at least kicking the tires.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: ricky on March 05, 2018, 01:31:26 PM
Here is the key paragraph from the article, as far as I'm concerned:

However, Wilkerson’s productivity after signing his lucrative new deal plummeted. He registered eight sacks over the past two seasons, a third less than his total from 2015. That drop-off contributed to the Jets’ decision to sever ties with Wilkerson this offseason.

That is a major, glaring red flag. He was a force with Pettine, played his best during his contract year, and became a shell of himself once he got the big bucks. But it won't happen this time, right? The comparison to Peppers is a joke. Peppers always played up to or outperformed his paychecks. A better comparison is Albert Haynesworth. Pay me, and I'll cash my checks, have a bad attitude and play hard once in a while. So, the obvious solution is to get him to sign an incentive laden contract. Which he won't. Why should he? Some team will sign him for a big guarantee, he'll be a disappointment. Whether its the Packers or not remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 05, 2018, 01:46:22 PM
Here is the key paragraph from the article, as far as I'm concerned:

However, Wilkerson’s productivity after signing his lucrative new deal plummeted. He registered eight sacks over the past two seasons, a third less than his total from 2015. That drop-off contributed to the Jets’ decision to sever ties with Wilkerson this offseason.

That is a major, glaring red flag. He was a force with Pettine, played his best during his contract year, and became a shell of himself once he got the big bucks. But it won't happen this time, right? The comparison to Peppers is a joke. Peppers always played up to or outperformed his paychecks. A better comparison is Albert Haynesworth. Pay me, and I'll cash my checks, have a bad attitude and play hard once in a while. So, the obvious solution is to get him to sign an incentive laden contract. Which he won't. Why should he? Some team will sign him for a big guarantee, he'll be a disappointment. Whether its the Packers or not remains to be seen.

It is a risk Ricky for sure.  Not sure the Haynesworth comparison applies.  I don't know the man but Pettine does. 
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: phanatic1 on March 05, 2018, 01:56:11 PM
A move like this won't be a surprise.  I think Gut is going to make an early splash to rally Packer nation and show that he is ready to bring the organization back into the 21 century of NFL free agency.  With the fact that Pettine knows him and what he can offer, that takes away some of the hesitation for me.  When motivated, this is a guy that played at a high level and made plays.  Imagining a line with Wilkerson, Clark, and Daniels on it makes the DL the strength of the defense.  I say go for it and get it done Gut.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: The GM on March 05, 2018, 02:01:46 PM
Here is the key paragraph from the article, as far as I'm concerned:

However, Wilkerson’s productivity after signing his lucrative new deal plummeted. He registered eight sacks over the past two seasons, a third less than his total from 2015. That drop-off contributed to the Jets’ decision to sever ties with Wilkerson this offseason.

That is a major, glaring red flag. He was a force with Pettine, played his best during his contract year, and became a shell of himself once he got the big bucks. But it won't happen this time, right? The comparison to Peppers is a joke. Peppers always played up to or outperformed his paychecks. A better comparison is Albert Haynesworth. Pay me, and I'll cash my checks, have a bad attitude and play hard once in a while. So, the obvious solution is to get him to sign an incentive laden contract. Which he won't. Why should he? Some team will sign him for a big guarantee, he'll be a disappointment. Whether its the Packers or not remains to be seen.

Agree with much of this, but any FA DL is going to be somewhat of a risk.  Im sure Pettine has spoken to Gute about Wilkerson at length.  Maybe this is the guy Pettine wants?  Maybe this is the system Wilkerson wants and is comfortable playing in?  Dont know.   You also have to remember its the Jets he was playing for, not exactly contender city.  Let the Packers do their due diligence.   If its a fit, great!!  if not, on to the next FA.

The goal is to fix the defense.  Banking on rookies isnt going to do it.  You need some vets.                   
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: dannobanano on March 05, 2018, 02:07:15 PM
Here is the key paragraph from the article, as far as I'm concerned:

However, Wilkerson’s productivity after signing his lucrative new deal plummeted. He registered eight sacks over the past two seasons, a third less than his total from 2015. That drop-off contributed to the Jets’ decision to sever ties with Wilkerson this offseason.

That is a major, glaring red flag. He was a force with Pettine, played his best during his contract year, and became a shell of himself once he got the big bucks. But it won't happen this time, right? The comparison to Peppers is a joke. Peppers always played up to or outperformed his paychecks. A better comparison is Albert Haynesworth. Pay me, and I'll cash my checks, have a bad attitude and play hard once in a while. So, the obvious solution is to get him to sign an incentive laden contract. Which he won't. Why should he? Some team will sign him for a big guarantee, he'll be a disappointment. Whether its the Packers or not remains to be seen.

It is a risk Ricky for sure.  Not sure the Haynesworth comparison applies.  I don't know the man but Pettine does.

That's a key point score.

Without Pettine's presence, and input, I doubt GB has very much...........if any...........interest in pursuing Wilkerson.

If Pettine believes he can motivate Wilkerson (again), then I say it's worth a shot.

Give him a prove it contract. He's getting to a point in his career where, while the money is still important, making a major contribution to a team that could get him "a ring" might be just as important, and would also raise his market value when he hits FA again next year.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: The GM on March 05, 2018, 02:14:55 PM
I'll be very interested in Gute's approach to this.  Is he a "Don't let him leave town without a contract" type or the typical TT approach  "low ball him, let him make the tour around the NFL, and approach him in three weeks".  This will be interesting if the Packers are serious.   
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: ricky on March 05, 2018, 03:05:53 PM
Obviously the guy is talented when he wants to be. Pettine, though, coached him before he signed his big contract. After he cashed in, he apparently lost interest. The comparison to Haynesworth? He played well, but not spectacularly, until his contract year. Then, he showed what he could do when he was motived (by FA and getting a huge contract). He got paid in Washington, and became the poster child for "caveat emptor". I get the same feeling with Wilkerson. Could Pettine motivate him to play at a high level? Maybe. The question becomes, how many million are you willing to bet he'll be the player he can be once he gets paid? He flamed out in New York. But he'll catch fire in GB? Maybe. I'm sure the Packers are well aware of his history, and will do their best to cover their bets. This could be another Peppers level signing; or it could be another Joe Johnson signing.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 05, 2018, 03:56:00 PM
Came off of a broken leg in 2016 and had many injuries in 2017.  Was benched a few times for being late to team meetings.  Guy says he wants to play for a winning organization.  Doesn't sound like Haynesworth to me but he is a risk none the less.  We'll see what his contract demands are.  Probably too high for the Packers to swallow.  Give them credit for doing their due diligence. 

Will point out they said the same things about Woodson when we signed him.  That worked out rather nicely.  Who knows Ricky no one has  a crystal ball.  If the Pack manages to get him into the fold I'll be excited until proven otherwise. 
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: The GM on March 05, 2018, 07:39:16 PM
My question is how big of a fire do you have to light under this guy?  Will he be motivated playing for a contender?  Can Pettine get it out of him?  I hear a lot of "When he wants to play" in his effort eval. I wouldnt mind signing him with incentives, but we need to have an "out" for a guy like this if he doesnt pan out. Not sure how feasible that is, but it would be nice. 
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: craig on March 06, 2018, 09:59:21 AM
Interesting/surprising that Packers are even interested enough to invite him for a visit. 

DL doesn't seem like on of the more glaringly needy position groups. 

*IF* they did sign him, and he turned out to be very good; plus *IF* Adams stepped up and emerged as a good player; then you could have a really good position group. 
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: The GM on March 06, 2018, 12:45:08 PM
I would think the Packers would want this determined one way or the other by next weeks FA signing period.  If he doesnt go to GB, they can start on other FAs they might be interested in.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: marklawrence on March 06, 2018, 01:36:07 PM
If we're going to sign Aaron we're out of money and there will be no FAs in GB. Unless we deal with Jordy, Cobb, Matthews first.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: Ptpaq on March 06, 2018, 02:29:07 PM
Don't love it, to many other areas of need at linebacker and secondary while our Defensive Line is a strong point already, while also very young and promising.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 06, 2018, 03:01:46 PM
If we're going to sign Aaron we're out of money and there will be no FAs in GB. Unless we deal with Jordy, Cobb, Matthews first.

Agree.  Don't see the need to do Aaron now.  Especially if he and his agent want to play hardball.  Guy missed most of last season with an injury.  Also he is under contract for 2 more years.  Furthermore we can franchise him for another 2 years.  That means the Packers in essence own his rights for another 4 years.  Takes him to what?  39?  If he is about the team and agrees to a friendly deal that is one thing.  If it is I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL that's another.  Packers have the leverage not Aaron.  The goal is to win another Superbowl not to appease Aaron or his agent. 

Love Aaron but love the Packers more.  Just sayin...
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: marklawrence on March 06, 2018, 04:27:00 PM
Love Aaron but love the Packers more.  Just sayin...

Semi-famous story: Giants WR  catches the ball, breaks a tackle, runs about 50 yards for a TD. Crowd is screaming. WR walks up to Parcells, "Look coach! They love me!"  Parcels: "Don't kid yourself, son. They love the jersey colors."
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: Fox_NFLs_GG on March 07, 2018, 05:58:27 PM
Ted Thompson is still with the Packers. He probably is advising against any signing beyond veteran minimum. If he has any say in this visit... Mr. Wilkerson will have his choice of one item off the McDonalds Dollar Menu and a cup for water.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 07, 2018, 06:53:14 PM
Ted Thompson is still with the Packers. He probably is advising against any signing beyond veteran minimum. If he has any say in this visit... Mr. Wilkerson will have his choice of one item off the McDonalds Dollar Menu and a cup for water.

Cheap shot.  TT was judicious with FA.  He also was a fine GM.  The fact that he accepted a lesser role within the organization speaks volumes as to his character as well.  I for one am ecstatic that he is still on board.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: RT on March 07, 2018, 07:29:58 PM
Ted Thompson is still with the Packers. He probably is advising against any signing beyond veteran minimum. If he has any say in this visit... Mr. Wilkerson will have his choice of one item off the McDonalds Dollar Menu and a cup for water.

Ya, don't be that guy! Travel the high road, their is less traffic on it.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: The GM on March 07, 2018, 08:54:05 PM
Ted Thompson is still with the Packers. He probably is advising against any signing beyond veteran minimum. If he has any say in this visit... Mr. Wilkerson will have his choice of one item off the McDonalds Dollar Menu and a cup for water.

Always go with the $1 McChicken sandwich.  Its a money selection that hits the spot.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: marklawrence on March 07, 2018, 09:01:30 PM
I get couple of hamburgers and share them with my doggies. We each wind up with about a third of a burger. Sometimes I cheat and get a side salad with southwest dressing, which I eat indoors before they see it.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: Fox_NFLs_GG on March 08, 2018, 04:41:40 AM
I get couple of hamburgers and share them with my doggies. We each wind up with about a third of a burger. Sometimes I cheat and get a side salad with southwest dressing, which I eat indoors before they see it.

It is about being wise with the money, not cheap.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: Fox_NFLs_GG on March 08, 2018, 04:57:59 AM
Ted Thompson is still with the Packers. He probably is advising against any signing beyond veteran minimum. If he has any say in this visit... Mr. Wilkerson will have his choice of one item off the McDonalds Dollar Menu and a cup for water.

Ya, don't be that guy! Travel the high road, their is less traffic on it.
The thing is that I m that guy. The truth is the truth. I have been around a long time and need no lecture on the high road. TT didn't go for value in FA, he went for Extra Value off the dollar menu when it came to FA. Hopefully the current GM goes the route of value and nothing less.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: marklawrence on March 08, 2018, 05:31:47 AM
I get couple of hamburgers and share them with my doggies. We each wind up with about a third of a burger. Sometimes I cheat and get a side salad with southwest dressing, which I eat indoors before they see it.

It is about being wise with the money, not cheap.

I'm wearing the same pants size I wore in high school, over 40 years ago. 32" waist.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: RT on March 08, 2018, 06:58:23 AM
Ted Thompson is still with the Packers. He probably is advising against any signing beyond veteran minimum. If he has any say in this visit... Mr. Wilkerson will have his choice of one item off the McDonalds Dollar Menu and a cup for water.

Ya, don't be that guy! Travel the high road, their is less traffic on it.
The thing is that I m that guy. The truth is the truth. I have been around a long time and need no lecture on the high road. TT didn't go for value in FA, he went for Extra Value off the dollar menu when it came to FA. Hopefully the current GM goes the route of value and nothing less.

With the crystal ball of hindsight in your possession, please share with us these FA moves that should have been made.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: ricky on March 08, 2018, 07:38:00 AM
The thing is that I m that guy. The truth is the truth. I have been around a long time and need no lecture on the high road. TT didn't go for value in FA, he went for Extra Value off the dollar menu when it came to FA. Hopefully the current GM goes the route of value and nothing less.

Woodson and Peppers didn't sign for vet minimum. Neither did Pickett. Judicious use of FA, rather than throwing big bucks at "names" who are more interested in a big payday, and then fade into "I got paid, so who cares?" That is the big question about Wilkerson- will he be another Woodson/Peppers, or will he be the next Joe Johnson? And how many million are you willing to gamble he'll want to go all out to win a SB? Because vet niminum or an incentive laden contract isn't going to get the job done. For those who are interested, here are his career stats:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilkMu00.htm
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: craig on March 08, 2018, 08:45:41 AM
Ricky is right, with any FA (your own included), the following questions always apply: 
1.  How much are you willing to pay? 
2.  How much are you willing to gamble?  (There are varying uncertainties with many players)
3.  How confident are you that the player will be good (Woodson/Peppers/Pickett) versus bad (Bennett/Joe Johnson)? 

Those are really scouting and personal-evaluation questions.  You need smart guys in Gute+MM to make those decisions wisely. 

It might seem that in past, TT was willing to pay and willing to gamble to resign guys we already had (Nick Perry, etc.); but he's been reluctant to gamble on outside guys.  I think when it's a guy you've had, MM feels like he knows the effort and professionalism he'll get.  Obviously with Bennett, they didn't.... 

With Wilkerson, Pettine should already know. 

To some degree, I think the Packers have perhaps suffered a little by being so insular in both scouting and coaching.  They don't have any scouts who have worked in any other systems, I don't think.  They had Capers for forever, and usually promote internally within coaching. 

I think we can see the advantage of bringing in Pettine from outside; he knows some other players and has some other personal connections.  And perhaps some other ideas. 

I kinda suspect that having more guys from other organizations gives more insight into personalities and players and coaches and coaching techniques etc. 
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: The GM on March 08, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
Ricky is right, with any FA (your own included), the following questions always apply: 
1.  How much are you willing to pay? 
2.  How much are you willing to gamble?  (There are varying uncertainties with many players)
3.  How confident are you that the player will be good (Woodson/Peppers/Pickett) versus bad (Bennett/Joe Johnson)? 

Those are really scouting and personal-evaluation questions.  You need smart guys in Gute+MM to make those decisions wisely. 

It might seem that in past, TT was willing to pay and willing to gamble to resign guys we already had (Nick Perry, etc.); but he's been reluctant to gamble on outside guys.  I think when it's a guy you've had, MM feels like he knows the effort and professionalism he'll get.  Obviously with Bennett, they didn't.... 

With Wilkerson, Pettine should already know. 

To some degree, I think the Packers have perhaps suffered a little by being so insular in both scouting and coaching.  They don't have any scouts who have worked in any other systems, I don't think.  They had Capers for forever, and usually promote internally within coaching. 

I think we can see the advantage of bringing in Pettine from outside; he knows some other players and has some other personal connections.  And perhaps some other ideas. 

I kinda suspect that having more guys from other organizations gives more insight into personalities and players and coaches and coaching techniques etc.

Agree, Im really on the fence with this guy.  Former pro bowler, who plays when he wants to, late to meetings.  Is he a player, or some guy going through the motions for a paycheck.  As I mentioned before we need a way out if this goes South.  As Jimmy Johnson  and Bill Parcells would say.  "If I have to motivate you, you won't  be here long".
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: marklawrence on March 08, 2018, 10:32:41 AM
Vince Lombardi "If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: dannobanano on March 08, 2018, 12:50:05 PM
It might be that he's over the hill or just a lazy slug.

Maybe he got complacent with the big contract, or maybe he lost his desire/drive because the NYJ's have been a dumpster fire for so long.

Sometimes getting cut becomes a wake-up call to certain players. It embarrasses their ego's, and make no mistake, they all have huge ego's. It's in those cases where their desire/drive to play becomes rekindled and you get the better player instead ot the lump-on-a-log player.

I have no idea where Mo fits in with this. But that's what Gute/Pettine get paid to figure out.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: ricky on March 08, 2018, 01:14:08 PM
Vince Lombardi "If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."

That's nice, but the dead money would prevent the team from using that money (again, how many millions?) elsewhere. He's a gamble. And the Packes still need to make cap clearing moves to seriously consider landing Wilkerson. So, until CMIII, Nelson and Cobb are resolved, this is all just speculation.

IF the Packers cut Matthews, for example, they gain $11.3 million on the cap with no dead money. So, do you cut him, sign Wilkerson, and hope that generates more pass rush? Do you hope to re-sign Matthews at a lower price? Do you try to extend the contract (meaning a pay cut)? Nelson would be a savings of $10.5 million with a $2.3 million dead cap. He's 32 and had a down year once Rodgers was hurt. He had five TD's and a start on another 1000+ yard season when AR went down. After that, Hundley and him had no chemistry. AR and Nelson are twin brothers from different mothers on the field. Don't be too quick to get rid of him, though he might be agreeable to a restructure. Cobb is due $12.7 million. His being cut would cost $3.2 million dead cap, but create $9.5 million in cap space. So, why are the Packers in this rather tight cap situation?

First, they re-signed Adams and Linsley, both very solid moves IMO. So, you're the GM. If you want more cap space, these are the three major guys you have to go through to achieve that goal. Sure, you could cut your starting RG (Bulaga), and save $4.5 million in cap space, with $3.2 million dead cap. And then need another RT. Again, you're the GM. Tough choices, but as GM, you're given the power to make thos decisions. So the question is, "Do you feel lucky?"
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: RT on March 08, 2018, 01:34:16 PM
It might be that he's over the hill or just a lazy slug.

Maybe he got complacent with the big contract, or maybe he lost his desire/drive because the NYJ's have been a dumpster fire for so long.

Sometimes getting cut becomes a wake-up call to certain players. It embarrasses their ego's, and make no mistake, they all have huge ego's. It's in those cases where their desire/drive to play becomes rekindled and you get the better player instead ot the lump-on-a-log player.

I have no idea where Mo fits in with this. But that's what Gute/Pettine get paid to figure out.

Agreed, he is a complete crapshoot. He is worth the risk if the price is cheap enough. Unlike most of the guys signed last year, this guy was playing at a very high level not that long ago. Their should be some tread left on them tires. If the Packers are going to take some chances in free agency, IMO it should be with players who were elite at one time. Players like Peppers and Woodson and not the Ricky Jean Francois' or Lance Kendricks of the NFL world. 
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: The GM on March 08, 2018, 03:38:39 PM
According  to Silverstein, Wilkersons visit is complete and went well.  He"ll visit other teams, but the Packers are still in contention

Make of it what you will.  His first visit and we are still in contention????  We'll see.   The Saints are up next.

Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: claymaker on March 08, 2018, 04:00:18 PM
If we're going to sign Aaron we're out of money and there will be no FAs in GB. Unless we deal with Jordy, Cobb, Matthews first.

Agree.  Don't see the need to do Aaron now.  Especially if he and his agent want to play hardball.  Guy missed most of last season with an injury.  Also he is under contract for 2 more years.  Furthermore we can franchise him for another 2 years.  That means the Packers in essence own his rights for another 4 years.  Takes him to what?  39?  If he is about the team and agrees to a friendly deal that is one thing.  If it is I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL that's another.  Packers have the leverage not Aaron.  The goal is to win another Superbowl not to appease Aaron or his agent. 

Love Aaron but love the Packers more.  Just sayin...

Best player in the league at the most important position deserves to be the highest paid player in the league, if only temporarily. Name me a scenario in the next 5 years where Green Bay wins a Superbowl without Rodgers.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 08, 2018, 06:33:12 PM
If we're going to sign Aaron we're out of money and there will be no FAs in GB. Unless we deal with Jordy, Cobb, Matthews first.

Agree.  Don't see the need to do Aaron now.  Especially if he and his agent want to play hardball.  Guy missed most of last season with an injury.  Also he is under contract for 2 more years.  Furthermore we can franchise him for another 2 years.  That means the Packers in essence own his rights for another 4 years.  Takes him to what?  39?  If he is about the team and agrees to a friendly deal that is one thing.  If it is I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL that's another.  Packers have the leverage not Aaron.  The goal is to win another Superbowl not to appease Aaron or his agent. 

Love Aaron but love the Packers more.  Just sayin...

Best player in the league at the most important position deserves to be the highest paid player in the league, if only temporarily. Name me a scenario in the next 5 years where Green Bay wins a Superbowl without Rodgers.

We have him under contract for 2 years and can franchise him for 2 more.   Whether he deserves to be the highest paid player is irrelevant.   Furthermore if we don't surround him with some talent we won't win another Superbowl regardless.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 08, 2018, 06:34:21 PM
According  to Silverstein, Wilkersons visit is complete and went well.  He"ll visit other teams, but the Packers are still in contention

Make of it what you will.  His first visit and we are still in contention????  We'll see.   The Saints are up next.

Agree.  He left without a contract.  Highly unlikely we end up landing him now.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: The GM on March 08, 2018, 10:00:23 PM
According  to Silverstein, Wilkersons visit is complete and went well.  He"ll visit other teams, but the Packers are still in contention

Make of it what you will.  His first visit and we are still in contention????  We'll see.   The Saints are up next.

Agree.  He left without a contract.  Highly unlikely we end up landing him now.

I have no idea how this will turn out.  He may get lowballed at his next visits and be back to GB.  The Packers could be the best fit for him after his visits are done.  I wouldnt even venture a guess because there are so many variables to it.  Money, location, coaches, quality of life, is the wife happy, length of contract, what does the city offer?  Ive no idea whats important to him.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on March 09, 2018, 01:02:34 AM
If we're going to sign Aaron we're out of money and there will be no FAs in GB. Unless we deal with Jordy, Cobb, Matthews first.

Agree.  Don't see the need to do Aaron now.  Especially if he and his agent want to play hardball.  Guy missed most of last season with an injury.  Also he is under contract for 2 more years.  Furthermore we can franchise him for another 2 years.  That means the Packers in essence own his rights for another 4 years.  Takes him to what?  39?  If he is about the team and agrees to a friendly deal that is one thing.  If it is I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL that's another.  Packers have the leverage not Aaron.  The goal is to win another Superbowl not to appease Aaron or his agent. 

Love Aaron but love the Packers more.  Just sayin...

Best player in the league at the most important position deserves to be the highest paid player in the league, if only temporarily. Name me a scenario in the next 5 years where Green Bay wins a Superbowl without Rodgers.

We have him under contract for 2 years and can franchise him for 2 more.   Whether he deserves to be the highest paid player is irrelevant.   Furthermore if we don't surround him with some talent we won't win another Superbowl regardless.

I laughed when I read that, scoremore. It is so wrong. For example, you go the "run out the contract and double franchise" route, and upset Rodgers so much he doesn't really care about the Packers anymore - maybe he retires rather than play for a team he no longer likes - he can certainly afford to. Play hardball with the best player in the league and you DESERVE what comes your way.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: ricky on March 09, 2018, 06:21:20 AM
Actually, if the Packers learn from the Randy Moss debacle, this could work out for them short term. In the case of Moss, the Packers thought they had him signed to a two year contract, even though Moss wanted only a one year deal. At the last minute, NE swept in, signed him to that one year deal, and Brady/Moss became the most deadly combination in the league. So, lets say that Wilkerson wants to sign a one year deal, so he can "prove" to the league he is a serious player. He plays for a decent amount, gets double digit sacks, and hits FA again after this year.

Would that be a bad idea? I don't think so. The Packers get the benefit of a motived Wilkerson, and improved passs rush, and probably a stronger SB contender. Then, the Packrs can decide whether they want to invest in him long term, or let him go. This would seem to be the ideal scenario. And to be clear, I'm not talking about vet nimimum or heavy incentives. Instead, somewhere around $8-9 million guaranteed, with incentives that could push that higher. Say, another two or three million. So, both sides would benefit: Wilkerson would get to play for a winner, get a chance to be with a familiar DC and show what he can do. The Packers would get a motivated, high energy/engaged pass rusher who could make the team better at an area where they have lagged in recent years.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 09, 2018, 06:22:40 AM
Well Claymaker I disagree.  Aaron is coming off of a major injury.  He missed most of last season.  Let's look at the other side.  OK the Packers make Aaron the highest player in the league.  He receives a 5 yr deal /160 million with 80 million guaranteed.  Well we can't fit him under the cap so in order to get the deal done we have to restructure Jordy, cut Cobb, and also restructure Matthews.  Possibly cut Bulaga as well.  Also we are severely  limited when it comes to FA.  Where is this money going to come from?  Ok we structure it to lessen his cap hit this year but it balloons over the next few years.  Then what?

Aaron plays well but take a major hit midway through the season and re breaks his collarbone.  OK?  Where are we now?  You act like there is no risk to signing Aaron to a major deal.  What happens if he takes a career ending hit?  How much dead money do we have to absorb?  How does it affect the teams competitiveness going forward?  Is he even going to come back the same?

Look handing this kind of cash to any player is a huge risk.  QB salaries are out of control.  What's more important to Aaron winning another Superbowl or being the highest player in the league?  I am arguing you can't have it both ways.  You don't see Brady demanding to be the highest player in the league to you?  Know he took less so NE could afford to add some players around him.  He has 5 rings.

I have no problem giving Aaron a new contract.  But if it is predicated on him being the highest player in the league to feed his ego or his agents think it's a bad idea and can come back and bite the Packers in the butt.  A win win deal where Aaron works with the Packers to a cap friendly team orientated deal OK then if we can do it fine. 

Think this is not a good time to re do his contract.  I would wait until next year to try to work something out.  We should have more money to work.  We are very limited at this time with little cap room to work with.  We usually wait until a year before a contract is up before re upping a player.  Not 2 years.  We can afford to wait a year so see how Aaron performs. 

It all depends on Aaron and his agent.  If they insist on playing hardball screw it.  We wait.  Worst case we have Aaron for 2 years under contract we tag and trade him in year 3 for a boatload of picks and or players.  Do you think Aaron would sit out or retire because of a contract situation?  I don't he's too competitive.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: RT on March 09, 2018, 07:18:53 AM
Actually, if the Packers learn from the Randy Moss debacle, this could work out for them short term. In the case of Moss, the Packers thought they had him signed to a two year contract, even though Moss wanted only a one year deal. At the last minute, NE swept in, signed him to that one year deal, and Brady/Moss became the most deadly combination in the league. So, lets say that Wilkerson wants to sign a one year deal, so he can "prove" to the league he is a serious player. He plays for a decent amount, gets double digit sacks, and hits FA again after this year.

Would that be a bad idea? I don't think so. The Packers get the benefit of a motived Wilkerson, and improved passs rush, and probably a stronger SB contender. Then, the Packrs can decide whether they want to invest in him long term, or let him go. This would seem to be the ideal scenario. And to be clear, I'm not talking about vet nimimum or heavy incentives. Instead, somewhere around $8-9 million guaranteed, with incentives that could push that higher. Say, another two or three million. So, both sides would benefit: Wilkerson would get to play for a winner, get a chance to be with a familiar DC and show what he can do. The Packers would get a motivated, high energy/engaged pass rusher who could make the team better at an area where they have lagged in recent years.

I'm not claiming to be any wiser than the next guy, but I think you are way off on what you think he is getting in free agency. You are talking about paying him in the top 10 players in the league at his position and I just don't think he will get anything close to that with the issues he has had lately.
Just looking at resent contracts at his position.
Allen Bailey signed for 6.25M a year and is a young, clean player who I would guess that just about every GM in the NFL would take over Wilkerson at this moment.
Terrell McClain was signed away from the Cowboys by the Redskins for 5.25M. And that was a bidding war for a producing player.
More reasonable comps may be,
Ethan Westbrooks - 2 years, 3M at 1.5 per year and 500K signing bonus.
Frostee Rucker - 1 year, 1.08M with 80K signing bonus.
Jared Crick - 2 years, 4M at 2M per year and 1M guaranteed.
Quinton Dial - 1 year 775k
Arthur Jones - 1 year 775K

Will be interesting to follow.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: dannobanano on March 09, 2018, 07:53:07 AM
Actually, if the Packers learn from the Randy Moss debacle, this could work out for them short term. In the case of Moss, the Packers thought they had him signed to a two year contract, even though Moss wanted only a one year deal. At the last minute, NE swept in, signed him to that one year deal, and Brady/Moss became the most deadly combination in the league. So, lets say that Wilkerson wants to sign a one year deal, so he can "prove" to the league he is a serious player. He plays for a decent amount, gets double digit sacks, and hits FA again after this year.

Would that be a bad idea? I don't think so. The Packers get the benefit of a motived Wilkerson, and improved passs rush, and probably a stronger SB contender. Then, the Packrs can decide whether they want to invest in him long term, or let him go. This would seem to be the ideal scenario. And to be clear, I'm not talking about vet nimimum or heavy incentives. Instead, somewhere around $8-9 million guaranteed, with incentives that could push that higher. Say, another two or three million. So, both sides would benefit: Wilkerson would get to play for a winner, get a chance to be with a familiar DC and show what he can do. The Packers would get a motivated, high energy/engaged pass rusher who could make the team better at an area where they have lagged in recent years.

Agree with the logic ricky. Mo may be wanting to rehab his reputation with a one yr deal (and under the guidance of the DC who made him into a "star"), and then re-enter the market in 2019 to cash in one last time (at age 29). IS that what he's asking for? Oh, to be a fly on the wall!

Who wins a potential 1 yr bidding war for Mo?

Saints currently have $9M more in the cap war chest.
Chiefs are currently OVER the cap by $3.4M, so they have some massive house cleaning to do.

I wouldn't rule out a 1 yr deal, with incentives, that could be worth $7M to $9M. But only because of Mo's past contract. I just don't see him taking a very low offer. Gute's gotta make a competitive offer, and maybe (since the word is that the visit went well) Mo will give GB a last chance to match after he made his other visits?  ;)

If the numbers are close between NO and GB, it could come down to Mo's relationship with Pettine.............stay tuned.

Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: Fox_NFLs_GG on March 09, 2018, 08:03:34 AM
Actually, if the Packers learn from the Randy Moss debacle, this could work out for them short term. In the case of Moss, the Packers thought they had him signed to a two year contract, even though Moss wanted only a one year deal. At the last minute, NE swept in, signed him to that one year deal, and Brady/Moss became the most deadly combination in the league. So, lets say that Wilkerson wants to sign a one year deal, so he can "prove" to the league he is a serious player. He plays for a decent amount, gets double digit sacks, and hits FA again after this year.

Would that be a bad idea? I don't think so. The Packers get the benefit of a motived Wilkerson, and improved passs rush, and probably a stronger SB contender. Then, the Packrs can decide whether they want to invest in him long term, or let him go. This would seem to be the ideal scenario. And to be clear, I'm not talking about vet nimimum or heavy incentives. Instead, somewhere around $8-9 million guaranteed, with incentives that could push that higher. Say, another two or three million. So, both sides would benefit: Wilkerson would get to play for a winner, get a chance to be with a familiar DC and show what he can do. The Packers would get a motivated, high energy/engaged pass rusher who could make the team better at an area where they have lagged in recent years.

Agree with the logic ricky. Mo may be wanting to rehab his reputation with a one yr deal (and under the guidance of the DC who made him into a "star"), and then re-enter the market in 2019 to cash in one last time (at age 29). IS that what he's asking for? Oh, to be a fly on the wall!

Who wins a potential 1 yr bidding war for Mo?

Saints currently have $9M more in the cap war chest.
Chiefs are currently OVER the cap by $3.4M, so they have some massive house cleaning to do.

I wouldn't rule out a 1 yr deal, with incentives, that could be worth $7M to $9M. But only because of Mo's past contract. I just don't see him taking a very low offer. Gute's gotta make a competitive offer, and maybe (since the word is that the visit went well) Mo will give GB a last chance to match after he made his other visits?  ;)

If the numbers are close between NO and GB, it could come down to Mo's relationship with Pettine.............stay tuned.

Lets hope that Pettine can seal the deal. Lets hope they took him out for a Gilbert Burger at Burger King instead of one item off the dollar menu at McDonalds. By that I mean is that they will not sell the farm but are willing to invest a little bit more than in the past.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: ricky on March 09, 2018, 10:57:07 AM
I'm not claiming to be any wiser than the next guy, but I think you are way off on what you think he is getting in free agency. You are talking about paying him in the top 10 players in the league at his position and I just don't think he will get anything close to that with the issues he has had lately.
Just looking at resent contracts at his position.
Allen Bailey signed for 6.25M a year and is a young, clean player who I would guess that just about every GM in the NFL would take over Wilkerson at this moment.
Terrell McClain was signed away from the Cowboys by the Redskins for 5.25M. And that was a bidding war for a producing player.
More reasonable comps may be,
Ethan Westbrooks - 2 years, 3M at 1.5 per year and 500K signing bonus.
Frostee Rucker - 1 year, 1.08M with 80K signing bonus.
Jared Crick - 2 years, 4M at 2M per year and 1M guaranteed.
Quinton Dial - 1 year 775k
Arthur Jones - 1 year 775K

Will be interesting to follow.

I hope you're correct. If the Packers could sign him for a lot less money, excellent. The less spent, the less there is to lose. I was going on the basis of his contract with the Jets, however. Which the came to regret, since he started underperforming immediately after signing that lucrative contract.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: claymaker on March 10, 2018, 06:06:47 AM
If we're going to sign Aaron we're out of money and there will be no FAs in GB. Unless we deal with Jordy, Cobb, Matthews first.

Agree.  Don't see the need to do Aaron now.  Especially if he and his agent want to play hardball.  Guy missed most of last season with an injury.  Also he is under contract for 2 more years.  Furthermore we can franchise him for another 2 years.  That means the Packers in essence own his rights for another 4 years.  Takes him to what?  39?  If he is about the team and agrees to a friendly deal that is one thing.  If it is I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL that's another.  Packers have the leverage not Aaron.  The goal is to win another Superbowl not to appease Aaron or his agent. 

Love Aaron but love the Packers more.  Just sayin...

Best player in the league at the most important position deserves to be the highest paid player in the league, if only temporarily. Name me a scenario in the next 5 years where Green Bay wins a Superbowl without Rodgers.

We have him under contract for 2 years and can franchise him for 2 more.   Whether he deserves to be the highest paid player is irrelevant.   Furthermore if we don't surround him with some talent we won't win another Superbowl regardless.

You don't franchise tag Aaron Rodgers two years in a row. Ask Washington how that worked out for them and ask Kirk Cousins how he feels about it.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: marklawrence on March 10, 2018, 06:31:54 AM
A young guy like cousins doesn't want to be franchised because they don't get the security of a long term contract against injury and the chance to bind up some serious wealth. Aaron has had both of those. He might like being franchised, which comes with higher pay.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: RT on March 10, 2018, 07:08:10 AM
A young guy like cousins doesn't want to be franchised because they don't get the security of a long term contract against injury and the chance to bind up some serious wealth. Aaron has had both of those. He might like being franchised, which comes with higher pay.

Agreed, some fans get paranoid that the Packers are going to upset the MVP over his future contract(s). In all likelihood the fans are more concerned then he and his agent are. Rodgers is in a win-win, any of the scenerios are probably just fine with him.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: craig on March 10, 2018, 12:36:16 PM
So, we're talking about seasons where Rodgers will turn 37 and 38, and worrying about paying him now so we don't get him upset and have him bolt for his age-39 Super-Bowl season when he becomes a FA?  I'm not sure that's such a problem.... 
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: claymaker on March 10, 2018, 07:40:32 PM
So, we're talking about seasons where Rodgers will turn 37 and 38, and worrying about paying him now so we don't get him upset and have him bolt for his age-39 Super-Bowl season when he becomes a FA?  I'm not sure that's such a problem....

Remind everyone again how old Tom Brady was when he won his last Super Bowl?
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 11, 2018, 07:08:35 PM
If we're going to sign Aaron we're out of money and there will be no FAs in GB. Unless we deal with Jordy, Cobb, Matthews first.

Agree.  Don't see the need to do Aaron now.  Especially if he and his agent want to play hardball.  Guy missed most of last season with an injury.  Also he is under contract for 2 more years.  Furthermore we can franchise him for another 2 years.  That means the Packers in essence own his rights for another 4 years.  Takes him to what?  39?  If he is about the team and agrees to a friendly deal that is one thing.  If it is I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL that's another.  Packers have the leverage not Aaron.  The goal is to win another Superbowl not to appease Aaron or his agent. 

Love Aaron but love the Packers more.  Just sayin...

Best player in the league at the most important position deserves to be the highest paid player in the league, if only temporarily. Name me a scenario in the next 5 years where Green Bay wins a Superbowl without Rodgers.

We have him under contract for 2 years and can franchise him for 2 more.   Whether he deserves to be the highest paid player is irrelevant.   Furthermore if we don't surround him with some talent we won't win another Superbowl regardless.

You don't franchise tag Aaron Rodgers two years in a row. Ask Washington how that worked out for them and ask Kirk Cousins how he feels about it.

I would hope it wouldn't come to that.  Now is the wrong time all I am saying.  Also all of you are saying well he's the best in the league.  Well Brady, Manning, and Breeze are all pretty damn good.  Goff looks to be a real fine QB.  Aaron just broke his collar bone and had 13 screws.  When he did play it was clear he was not the same.  He came back early yes I know.  Want to see him play to his old form.  Haven't seen it yet.  Aaron is a great player there are too many questions to hand over a massive contract that could potentially saddle the organization for years to come.  Back on topic Wilkerson is now going to visit Washington.  Guess he's not liking any of the offers...
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: scoremore on March 11, 2018, 07:09:25 PM
If we're going to sign Aaron we're out of money and there will be no FAs in GB. Unless we deal with Jordy, Cobb, Matthews first.

Agree.  Don't see the need to do Aaron now.  Especially if he and his agent want to play hardball.  Guy missed most of last season with an injury.  Also he is under contract for 2 more years.  Furthermore we can franchise him for another 2 years.  That means the Packers in essence own his rights for another 4 years.  Takes him to what?  39?  If he is about the team and agrees to a friendly deal that is one thing.  If it is I want to be the highest paid player in the NFL that's another.  Packers have the leverage not Aaron.  The goal is to win another Superbowl not to appease Aaron or his agent. 

Love Aaron but love the Packers more.  Just sayin...

Best player in the league at the most important position deserves to be the highest paid player in the league, if only temporarily. Name me a scenario in the next 5 years where Green Bay wins a Superbowl without Rodgers.

We have him under contract for 2 years and can franchise him for 2 more.   Whether he deserves to be the highest paid player is irrelevant.   Furthermore if we don't surround him with some talent we won't win another Superbowl regardless.

You don't franchise tag Aaron Rodgers two years in a row. Ask Washington how that worked out for them and ask Kirk Cousins how he feels about it.

I would hope it wouldn't come to that.  Now is the wrong time all I am saying.  Also all of you are saying well he's the best in the league.  Well Brady, Ryan, and Breeze are all pretty damn good.  Goff looks to be a real fine QB.  Aaron just broke his collar bone and had 13 screws.  When he did play it was clear he was not the same.  He came back early yes I know.  Want to see him play to his old form.  Haven't seen it yet.  Aaron is a great player there are too many questions to hand over a massive contract that could potentially saddle the organization for years to come.  Back on topic Wilkerson is now going to visit Washington.  Guess he's not liking any of the offers...
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: ThatGuy284 on March 12, 2018, 12:19:24 PM
Drew Brees has had a series of contentious contract stand-offs with the Saints (and in line for another) yet he's been putting up numbers year after year and currently still there.
Title: Re: Wilkerson to meet with the Pack.
Post by: dannobanano on March 12, 2018, 02:31:00 PM
Back to Wilkerson!!

I think NO has bigger fish to fry now that the Vikings are interested in prying Brees out of NO.

KC's cap situation isn't as good as GB's. They are currently sitting with $14M in cap space.

WASH has 18 UFA's (plus a bunch of RFA's), and $31M in cap space.

Not sure who else is jumping on the "Mo Tour", but if Gute needed to create cap space to compete for MO, he could add $15M-$20M in short order.