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General Category => Draft Talk => 2018 Draft Days => Topic started by: LMG on April 10, 2018, 07:11:04 AM

Title: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: LMG on April 10, 2018, 07:11:04 AM
Opening Friday April 27.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: marklawrence on April 26, 2018, 10:07:23 PM
Two 1st round picks next year, likely both in the high 20s. Package the two together and we should be able to trade up to about #8. Throw in our 2nd round pick and we're at about #5. Let the Rodgers Replacement Rumors begin!!!
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: marklawrence on April 26, 2018, 10:14:19 PM
I don't really see how we have the ammo to trade up into the 3rd. If we want a 3rd round pick, we're going to have to trade back to about the 25th pick in the 2nd and throw in a 5th. I dunno about trading back in the 2nd, but we still have 12 picks this year and that's too many. We need to lose some 5ths and 7ths and get another 4th. Or be prepared to cut about 6 low draft picks at the end of TC and hope like 4 of them make it to the PS.

Of course we have a good history of getting very decent OL in the 4th and 5th. Bulaga should be very worried.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 26, 2018, 10:19:58 PM
I wonder if the Packers would take Josh Jackson if he is there at 45? Cant have enough good corners.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: footballdad on April 27, 2018, 03:00:31 AM
I have to admit that I was not crazy about the selection yesterday. Still not, but a good player anyway. The ability is obvious, just the size that concerns me.
While it is great having an extra 1st rounder next year.............it does not help now. I would like to see them parlay that pick into another 2nd and get back into the 3rd.
Going by the trade value chart, if the Pack were to make it to the NFC title game the approximate trade value would be 620. There would seem to be 3 possible trading partners.

1) Colts - three 2nd round picks. Numbers 36,37,and 49. Number 67 in the 3rd. Point value for 49 & 67 = 665. Not knowing exactly where the pick would be next year could make it work as-is. If not, pick 133 could seal it. Worst case would give us two 2nd rounders, a 3rd and a 4th.
2) Patriots - picks 43 and 95 = 590 points. Also have #63. In addition, they do not have any picks in the 4th or 5th rounds.
3)49'ers - picks 59 and 70 = 550 points. Also have #74.

Possibilities exist. It would be great if we could get 2 or 3 of these guys:
Lorenzo Carter OLB ( my favorite )
Harold Landry OLB
Michael Gallup WR
Anthony Miller WR
Josh Jackson CB
Quenton Meeks CB
Tyrell Crosby RT

Just my opinion could be wrong. Let's hope for a great day 2.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 05:55:32 AM
Just hated to see us lose that third round pick.  Thought Gute might have got his guy at 27 or been satisfied with Jackson or Oliver if Alexander didn't make it to 27.
Thought it was interesting Gute's comments that they still got there guy after trading out of number 14 which would have put Alexander above Edwards and James on their big board.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: dannobanano on April 27, 2018, 06:25:11 AM
Just hated to see us lose that third round pick.  Thought Gute might have got his guy at 27 or been satisfied with Jackson or Oliver if Alexander didn't make it to 27.
Thought it was interesting Gute's comments that they still got there guy after trading out of number 14 which would have put Alexander above Edwards and James on their big board.

Gute also said last night that they are not done moving around.

A name to keep in mind here is OLB/Edge Kemoko Turay (Rutgers).

Packers could trade farther back in the 2nd round to take Turay and maybe package one of their four 5th round picks to pick up a 3rd rounder as part of the deal.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kemoko-turay%20?id=32462018-0002-5599-9667-00031057c4e6 (https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kemoko-turay%20?id=32462018-0002-5599-9667-00031057c4e6)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCKAAD-i8AI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCKAAD-i8AI)
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: scoremore on April 27, 2018, 06:30:35 AM
Couple of guys I'd like.  Carter, Gesicki, Hernandez, Sutton, Williams, Hurst (if medical checks out), Turay, Jefferson, and Reid.  9 guys.  Gute may trade down on day 2 we'll see.  A lot of good players will be available and we can go a number of ways.  View TE as weakest position on the team a guy like Geskicki would probably be my first choice.  Think we could probably trade down and still land Carter.  Williams, Hernandez, Sutton, and Jefferson should all be off the board when we pick.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on April 27, 2018, 06:43:15 AM
I don't really see how we have the ammo to trade up into the 3rd. If we want a 3rd round pick, we're going to have to trade back to about the 25th pick in the 2nd and throw in a 5th. I dunno about trading back in the 2nd, but we still have 12 picks this year and that's too many. We need to lose some 5ths and 7ths and get another 4th. Or be prepared to cut about 6 low draft picks at the end of TC and hope like 4 of them make it to the PS.

Of course we have a good history of getting very decent OL in the 4th and 5th. Bulaga should be very worried.

A trade of lower picks to get back into the mid-to low third round is very do-able, if complicated, but what if the Packers gave up their 2019 pick (theirs or the Saints) for the Browns pick #33 or #35. That might seem good value to the Browns, with as many high picks as they have this year. Pick #33 or #35  AND the Packers own pick at #45 could really help this team. Think of getting two guys from Connor Williams, Will Hernandez, Courtland Sutton, Anthony Miller, Lorenzo Carter, Harold Landry.

The best value might still be to keep that 2019 pick, but it makes for interesting calculations............lots of options.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 07:03:09 AM
Mark, are you going to start a thread for each player drafted like in pass years?
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: LMG on April 27, 2018, 07:25:57 AM
Mark, are you going to start a thread for each player drafted like in pass years?


I can help out with that as I did it in the past.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 07:30:37 AM
I have to admit that I was not crazy about the selection yesterday. Still not, but a good player anyway. The ability is obvious, just the size that concerns me.
While it is great having an extra 1st rounder next year.............it does not help now. I would like to see them parlay that pick into another 2nd and get back into the 3rd.
Going by the trade value chart, if the Pack were to make it to the NFC title game the approximate trade value would be 620. There would seem to be 3 possible trading partners.

1) Colts - three 2nd round picks. Numbers 36,37,and 49. Number 67 in the 3rd. Point value for 49 & 67 = 665. Not knowing exactly where the pick would be next year could make it work as-is. If not, pick 133 could seal it. Worst case would give us two 2nd rounders, a 3rd and a 4th.
2) Patriots - picks 43 and 95 = 590 points. Also have #63. In addition, they do not have any picks in the 4th or 5th rounds.
3)49'ers - picks 59 and 70 = 550 points. Also have #74.

Possibilities exist. It would be great if we could get 2 or 3 of these guys:
Lorenzo Carter OLB ( my favorite )
Harold Landry OLB
Michael Gallup WR
Anthony Miller WR
Josh Jackson CB
Quenton Meeks CB
Tyrell Crosby RT

Just my opinion could be wrong. Let's hope for a great day 2.

Interesting thoughts on parlaying the 'next year' pick. Both Cleveland and Indianapolis have 2 picks at the top of the 2nd round and a swap of that pick is not out of the question. Personally I hope they keep the pick, but would understand the move if they have a player sitting there with a 1st round grade. That is the key here, I would only make that trade IF the player they went after had a first round grade on him.
 Looking at the best available, not sure who that is? Josh Jackson? Doubt they spend a 1st on a CB after taking one in the first. Reading about Harold Landry and Maurice Hurst this morning, they are viewed as major medical risks by most teams and with the Packers history on injuries would you spend a 1st on one of them? Not sure I see a player left worth spending a first round pick on. It is good to have options.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: WTX_Cheese on April 27, 2018, 07:32:24 AM
Crazy night last night. I was glad that the Packers stuck to #14, but was completely stunned when they traded out considering that they could pick from two perceived Top 10 talents like Edmunds and James.

What I liked: Picking up that first rounder for next year.

What I'm unsure about: Jaire Alexander. If you're drafting a 5'10" cornerback in the middle of the first round (and giving up a 3rd rounder to do it) this guy better be getting serious playing time DAY 1, and he BETTER excel.

What I don't like: Giving up that 3rd rounder.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 07:32:52 AM
Mark, are you going to start a thread for each player drafted like in pass years?


I can help out with that as I did it in the past.

 thumbsup)
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 07:38:36 AM
Crazy night last night. I was glad that the Packers stuck to #14, but was completely stunned when they traded out considering that they could pick from two perceived Top 10 talents like Edmunds and James.

What I liked: Picking up that first rounder for next year.

What I'm unsure about: Jaire Alexander. If you're drafting a 5'10" cornerback in the middle of the first round (and giving up a 3rd rounder to do it) this guy better be getting serious playing time DAY 1, and he BETTER excel.

What I don't like: Giving up that 3rd rounder.

As it turned out, they traded a 3rd this year for a 1st next year. Their are 32 teams that wish they could do that every year. Packers fans should feel lucky this morning to have pulled that off.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 07:44:47 AM
I don't really see how we have the ammo to trade up into the 3rd. If we want a 3rd round pick, we're going to have to trade back to about the 25th pick in the 2nd and throw in a 5th. I dunno about trading back in the 2nd, but we still have 12 picks this year and that's too many. We need to lose some 5ths and 7ths and get another 4th. Or be prepared to cut about 6 low draft picks at the end of TC and hope like 4 of them make it to the PS.

Of course we have a good history of getting very decent OL in the 4th and 5th. Bulaga should be very worried.

A trade of lower picks to get back into the mid-to low third round is very do-able, if complicated, but what if the Packers gave up their 2019 pick (theirs or the Saints) for the Browns pick #33 or #35. That might seem good value to the Browns, with as many high picks as they have this year. Pick #33 or #35  AND the Packers own pick at #45 could really help this team. Think of getting two guys from Connor Williams, Will Hernandez, Courtland Sutton, Anthony Miller, Lorenzo Carter, Harold Landry.

The best value might still be to keep that 2019 pick, but it makes for interesting calculations............lots of options.

All thing the Packers are weighing this morning I'm sure. Just depends on the value they have on each player. Austin Corbett would be another player I might add to your list of possibilies.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: WTX_Cheese on April 27, 2018, 08:22:12 AM
As it turned out, they traded a 3rd this year for a 1st next year. Their are 32 teams that wish they could do that every year. Packers fans should feel lucky this morning to have pulled that off.

Obviously, it depends on how it all shakes out in the coming years. If Derwin James or Tremaine Edmunds is a perennial All-Pro, well then maybe this doesn't look so good. If the Saints win the Super Bowl next year, and our trade results in the 32nd pick, then maybe this isn't so great. There's still value there, but not as much as you'd hope for.

But the converse is also true (and what I'm rooting for): Jaire Alexander LOCKS down the slot on his way to becoming a very effective pro corner and the Saints have a mediocre 2018 season resulting in the Packers having 2 picks in the back half of the First Round next year.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 08:47:29 AM
Everyone assumes that James and Edmunds were rated higher because that is what the talking heads have been telling us for over a month now, but Gute suggested Alexander was the pick at 14. I trust in the guys that scout for a living and not the guys who talk for a living.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 09:02:32 AM
I cant help but like the moves.  Alexander is a top corner.  Mayock mocked him to us at 14.  Plus you get a 1st next year.  Alexander will be linked to James and Edmunds and how they do, but he fills a big need.  Seeing many comparisons to Sam Shields.  One thing many are overlooking is the signing of Tramon Williams.  He is going to be a gold mine for both King and Alexander.  I like what Gute has done so far.   Only 1 round in, but he makes you afraid to leave the draft, you might miss something. 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Descartes on April 27, 2018, 10:13:28 AM
13 picks can't all make the team so this is a good day to spend some of the excess draft capital. My speculation is that the Packers, coming into today with one pick (45), come out with three. Based on this draft value chart (https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8422367/Capture.PNG) (representing the current draft exchange rates) here are some potential scenarios:

Trade 45 down
There are many WR’s left with 2nd-round grades that it is likely a trade-down could yield an additional 3rd round pick and still allow a WR to be drafted that isn’t a reach. Here are some potential trade-down partners for 45 by which an additional 3rd round pick can be acquired. These might need tweaking by some 6th and 7th round exchanges.

Atlanta’s 58 & 90
Pittsburgh’s 60 & 92
Jacksonville’s 61 & 93
NE’s 63 & 95

Once acquired, additional trading of late 3rd-day picks might be used to move up in round 2 or round 3. Of course, this is premised on the notion that they will take a WR in the 2nd, but that is their history when they need a new starter.

Trade 101 up
101 is on the doorstep of the 3rd round—the first pick of the 4th. GB has so much draft “change” that practically any position in the 3rd round can be attained by trade if a willing partner is there. I suspect Gut had this in mind when he traded 76 away. To constrain the possibilities, let’s look to get a pick from 73-79, essentially recovering the 3rd round pick traded away yesterday. Again, some 6th and 7th round trades in either direction might be needed for fine-tuning. All of these leave the Packers with one or more picks in the remaining rounds:

Miami’s 73, SF’s 74, or Oakland’s 75 for 101, 138, 147
Cincinnati’s 77, KC’s 78, for 101, 138, 172
KC’s 78 or Pittsburgh’s 79, for 101, 138, 174

(Seattle has 76, but they were looking for a 3rd rounder and I don't think they would hand it back.)

Really, you could bundle 101 with enough later round picks to get another pick in the late 2nd, but I don't expect that to happen.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: WTX_Cheese on April 27, 2018, 10:21:58 AM
So who are you guys looking at for today? Considering that we had the bit of news that Bulaga refused a pay cut, I wonder if there's something there. I'd look long and hard at someone like Tyrell Crosby - OT - Oregon. I know it's not a shiny new receiver or edge rusher, but we have GOT to keep Rodgers upright.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 10:31:54 AM
Enjoy the work Descartes and agree with the idea of moving around, but it is for the sake of improving the roster.

Your first comment is one that seems to get a good percentage of fans lost in the weeds. Whether it is selling short the importance of competition or not understanding it at all, but drafting as many quality players as possible is the goal. Not drafting only enough to fill open roster spots. If draft choices get cut, so be it, it is all about the best final 53 in the end. Competition, Competition, Competition.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 10:48:55 AM
So who are you guys looking at for today? Considering that we had the bit of news that Bulaga refused a pay cut, I wonder if there's something there. I'd look long and hard at someone like Tyrell Crosby - OT - Oregon. I know it's not a shiny new receiver or edge rusher, but we have GOT to keep Rodgers upright.

In reviewing the players still available their is a high volume of quality players still undrafted. Would not be suprised if an OLineman was a 2nd round pick for the Packers. Expect to see 4 or 5 OL go in the first 12 pick of the second round the way the value board is stacked. Based on BPA would think OL, WR and EDGE are all possiblities for the Packers. 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Descartes on April 27, 2018, 10:52:01 AM
RT: Not sure if you're arguing against me or for me, but I agree that maximized competition for everyone on the team is the goal and that more bodies are usually better. My view, however, is that there is a point of diminishing returns whereby the level of competition is reduced if quantity is always pursued over quality. As an extreme example, 32 7th rounders do not create more competition for everyone than 3-4 1st-3rd rounders.  My feeling is that, in a "typical" distribution of draft choices, that peak is around 10, with room for much variation. For the Packers this draft I think if they convert some of their quantity into quality they will be better for it.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: craig on April 27, 2018, 11:00:13 AM
Agree, RT, think receiver, edge, and OL seem most likely target.  Ironically, I still think there are very qualified CB options as well.  But just don't think you can go 1-2 on secondary for the 3rd times in four years.  Need to address some of the rest of the roster, too.... 

I've been dying to add a good receiver for years (whether wide, tight, or slot, I'm not picky).  HOpe they can find one. 

Obviously a good edge would be wonderful, although I'm not confident that anybody who's gone undrafted for the first 44 picks is going to be end up being a studly edge at 45.  Hope Gute can disprove my doubts and find one anyway.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Shinesman on April 27, 2018, 11:21:00 AM
I'm curious on what they plan to do at linebacker. Not many too notch guys left and we added 4th high round db in 4 years after signing House and William's this offseason. With the DB's still available in round 2 I think it's possible they snag another one because they could very well be the best player on the board. Which pushes other needs further down the talent hill. Very curious what the plan is.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 11:55:08 AM
Its about getting quality football players.  Per Casserly, a 10 year study shows that in the 2nd round you have a 50/50 chance of a player still starting in 4 years if he even starts at all.  Thats a flip of the coin.   Its about getting good football players.  Going for need, isn't always a good thing, and you have to do your diligence on medicals, character and the whole nine yards.     
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: ThatGuy284 on April 27, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Everyone assumes that James and Edmunds were rated higher because that is what the talking heads have been telling us for over a month now, but Gute suggested Alexander was the pick at 14. I trust in the guys that scout for a living and not the guys who talk for a living.

They spent a lot of time with Edmunds and James pre-draft - including bringing them to GB as part of their 30 visits.   They knew as much about those two prospects as they possibly could.    I liked Edmunds as much..or more..than anyone but trust the GB staff knows a fair bit more than my YouTube scouting exploits dug up.   No one can accuse the Pack of making a trade and bypassing these two options without having done their full due diligence as to what these guys could add to the team
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on April 27, 2018, 12:28:15 PM
Just hated to see us lose that third round pick.  Thought Gute might have got his guy at 27 or been satisfied with Jackson or Oliver if Alexander didn't make it to 27.
Thought it was interesting Gute's comments that they still got there guy after trading out of number 14 which would have put Alexander above Edwards and James on their big board.

As I pointed out in another thread, if the Packers really feel the need for another high pick this year they should be able to trade one of next years first round picks (their own or the Saints) for (for example) one of the Browns round two picks (pick #33 or #35). Failure to do that kind of trade would suggest to me they don't feel a burning need for another high second rounder, not at the cost of next years round 1 pick.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: dannobanano on April 27, 2018, 01:01:23 PM
Agree, RT, think receiver, edge, and OL seem most likely target.  Ironically, I still think there are very qualified CB options as well.  But just don't think you can go 1-2 on secondary for the 3rd times in four years.  Need to address some of the rest of the roster, too.... 

I've been dying to add a good receiver for years (whether wide, tight, or slot, I'm not picky).  HOpe they can find one. 

Obviously a good edge would be wonderful, although I'm not confident that anybody who's gone undrafted for the first 44 picks is going to be end up being a studly edge at 45.  Hope Gute can disprove my doubts and find one anyway.

Yes, agreed craig.

There are still very good CB's & S's that could go early in this round which may push an OL or Edge player even farther down than may have previously been expected.

Josh Jackson
Donte Jackson
Isaiah Oliver
Carlton Davis

Those CB's could cause an early run at that position group.

Safety group is decent as well.

Harrison
Reid
Bates

That's about 22% of the available 2nd round picks.

We might even see a mini-run on RB's here too.

Very good values in Chubb, Guice, and Jones
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 01:05:05 PM
Everyone assumes that James and Edmunds were rated higher because that is what the talking heads have been telling us for over a month now, but Gute suggested Alexander was the pick at 14. I trust in the guys that scout for a living and not the guys who talk for a living.

They spent a lot of time with Edmunds and James pre-draft - including bringing them to GB as part of their 30 visits.   They knew as much about those two prospects as they possibly could.    I liked Edmunds as much..or more..than anyone but trust the GB staff knows a fair bit more than my YouTube scouting exploits dug up.   No one can accuse the Pack of making a trade and bypassing these two options without having done their full due diligence as to what these guys could add to the team

Agree,  Gute and the Packers do this year round, they talk to everyone around the players, teammates, coaches, friends, trainers.  They have access to the medical questions. law, and character issues they might find through resources.  It takes a lot of time and energy to dig into these backgrounds.  Hell, if your just going off YouTube, Aaron Hernandez had some great college highlights.  You are investing millions of dollars in these guys, and you cant afford to miss.   They might look good, but their issues can come back to bite you.  Got no issues with the Packs selection.   Its a little tougher to select for Green Bay, but they do a great job.   
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: ThatGuy284 on April 27, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Wonder if Hundley gets included in any trade packages today or tomorrow?  Could be another way to hold onto one of the 4th or 5th round picks while trying to move back into the 3rd..   

I know some (many?) will argue he's not even worth that much but among the terrible performances he also had 3 games with QB ratings of 110.7, 111.2 and 134.3 and another 86.0.  All good performances and on par with starting experiences of guys like Case Keenum.   Even Peyton Manning had 26 TD's and 28 INT's in his first starting experience.   Not expecting much value but don't think an extra 25-35 pts trade value is outrageous for a potential backup QB.   He's not great - but he's better than some of the fodder on rosters currently

For giggles - any teams this could even be a consideration?  Seattle, Tennessee, Oakland...
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Ptpaq on April 27, 2018, 01:23:41 PM
Forget trading up into the 3rd. Trading up here in the 2nd for Harold Landry should be of utmost importance.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 01:31:01 PM
Forget trading up into the 3rd. Trading up here in the 2nd for Harold Landry should be of utmost importance.

None of us know the truth, but the fact that Landry and Hurst were not drafted yet and the rumors in many places of failed medicals make me wonder if either are even on the Packers board.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 01:41:45 PM
Wonder if Hundley gets included in any trade packages today or tomorrow?  Could be another way to hold onto one of the 4th or 5th round picks while trying to move back into the 3rd..   

I know some (many?) will argue he's not even worth that much but among the terrible performances he also had 3 games with QB ratings of 110.7, 111.2 and 134.3 and another 86.0.  All good performances and on par with starting experiences of guys like Case Keenum.   Even Peyton Manning had 26 TD's and 28 INT's in his first starting experience.   Not expecting much value but don't think an extra 25-35 pts trade value is outrageous for a potential backup QB.   He's not great - but he's better than some of the fodder on rosters currently

For giggles - any teams this could even be a consideration?  Seattle, Tennessee, Oakland...

Oakland was rumored earlier in the offseason, but not sure I see them as an option. Carolina, Dallas and Seattle all run read option offenses and that is probably his best niche and all 3 could uses of depth. Here is a link to teams QB depth,


http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/QB
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Ptpaq on April 27, 2018, 01:52:37 PM
Forget trading up into the 3rd. Trading up here in the 2nd for Harold Landry should be of utmost importance.

None of us know the truth, but the fact that Landry and Hurst were not drafted yet and the rumors in many places of failed medicals make me wonder if either are even on the Packers board.

Yeah, something is causing the drop, we know that much. If its medical (like Hurst) I can understand the fall. But if this is a nitpick over run-support or 2017 tape then I think we are maming a mistake. If we stay put I’d love for Miller, Guice or Daniels on offense. Reid, Oliver.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 02:21:12 PM
Forget trading up into the 3rd. Trading up here in the 2nd for Harold Landry should be of utmost importance.

None of us know the truth, but the fact that Landry and Hurst were not drafted yet and the rumors in many places of failed medicals make me wonder if either are even on the Packers board.

Yeah, something is causing the drop, we know that much. If its medical (like Hurst) I can understand the fall. But if this is a nitpick over run-support or 2017 tape then I think we are maming a mistake. If we stay put I’d love for Miller, Guice or Daniels on offense. Reid, Oliver.

Must be something concerning with Landry.  Too good of a player not to go in the 1st round.
Title: 2nd day options
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 03:01:33 PM
Put together a little list of players that could be in play for the Packers tonight.

DT Maurice Hurst, Michigan
EG Harold Landry, Boston College
CB Josh Jackson, Iowa
These 3 probably had 1st grades minus medicals. NFL teams are the only ones who know if/when Hurst or Landry come off the board. Expect Jackson to be one of the first 5 taken tonight.

This list should have 2nd or 3rd round grades minus medical unknowns.

OL Connor Williams, Texas - Will Hernandez, UTEP - Austin Corbett, Nevada - James Daniels, Iowa - Braden Smith, Auburn

WR Courtland Sutton, SMU - DJ Chark,   LSU - Michael Gallup, Colorado State - Anthony Miller, Memphis - Deon Cain, Clemson

TE Michael Gesicki, Penn State -  Dallas Goedert, South Dakota St. -  Mark Andrews, Oklahoma -  Ian Thomas, Indiana

EDGE Lorenzo Carter, Georgia -  Josh Sweat, Florida State -  Sam Hubbard, Ohio State -  Duke Ejiofor, Wake Forest - Uchenna Nwosu, USC - Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, Oklahoma - Kemoko Turay, Rutgers -  Rasheem Green, USC

DL  Harrison Phillips, Stanford - B.J. Hill, North Carolina St. - Nathan Shepherd, Fort Hays State - P. J. Hall, Sam Houston State - Da'Shawn Hand, Alabama 

DB Isaiah Oliver, Colorado - Jessie Bates III, Wake Forest -  Quenton Meeks, Stanford - Justin Reid, Stanford

RB  Derrius Guice, LSU - Nick Chubb, Georgia -  Kerryon Johnson, Auburn 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 03:05:38 PM
Put together a little list of players that could be in play for the Packers tonight.

DT Maurice Hurst, Michigan
EG Harold Landry, Boston College
CB Josh Jackson, Iowa
These 3 probably had 1st grades minus medicals. NFL teams are the only ones who know if/when Hurst or Landry come off the board. Expect Jackson to be one of the first 5 taken tonight.

This list should have 2nd or 3rd round grades minus medical unknowns.

OL Connor Williams, Texas - Will Hernandez, UTEP - Austin Corbett, Nevada - James Daniels, Iowa - Braden Smith, Auburn

WR Courtland Sutton, SMU - DJ Chark,   LSU - Michael Gallup, Colorado State - Anthony Miller, Memphis - Deon Cain, Clemson

TE Michael Gesicki, Penn State -  Dallas Goedert, South Dakota St. -  Mark Andrews, Oklahoma -  Ian Thomas, Indiana

EDGE Lorenzo Carter, Georgia -  Josh Sweat, Florida State -  Sam Hubbard, Ohio State -  Duke Ejiofor, Wake Forest - Uchenna Nwosu, USC - Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, Oklahoma - Kemoko Turay, Rutgers -  Rasheem Green, USC

DL  Harrison Phillips, Stanford - B.J. Hill, North Carolina St. - Nathan Shepherd, Fort Hays State - P. J. Hall, Sam Houston State - Da'Shawn Hand, Alabama 

DB Isaiah Oliver, Colorado - Jessie Bates III, Wake Forest -  Quenton Meeks, Stanford - Justin Reid, Stanford

RB  Derrius Guice, LSU - Nick Chubb, Georgia -  Kerryon Johnson, Auburn

Will start a separate thread with this list for people who may want quick access to the list.     

 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: bmaafi on April 27, 2018, 03:35:57 PM
Wonder if Hundley gets included in any trade packages today or tomorrow?  Could be another way to hold onto one of the 4th or 5th round picks while trying to move back into the 3rd..   

I know some (many?) will argue he's not even worth that much but among the terrible performances he also had 3 games with QB ratings of 110.7, 111.2 and 134.3 and another 86.0.  All good performances and on par with starting experiences of guys like Case Keenum.   Even Peyton Manning had 26 TD's and 28 INT's in his first starting experience.   Not expecting much value but don't think an extra 25-35 pts trade value is outrageous for a potential backup QB.   He's not great - but he's better than some of the fodder on rosters currently

For giggles - any teams this could even be a consideration?  Seattle, Tennessee, Oakland...

that is actually a good idea I never thought of. Offer up Hundley, a 4th, and two 5ths. Should get it done.
Title: Re: 2nd day options
Post by: dannobanano on April 27, 2018, 03:46:24 PM
Might consider adding RB Jones to that list as well, RT.
Title: Re: 2nd day options
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 03:51:01 PM
Some of the projected second rounders may have issues we dont know about that cause them to drop too.   
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: LMG on April 27, 2018, 04:06:41 PM
Put together a little list of players that could be in play for the Packers tonight.

DT Maurice Hurst, Michigan
EG Harold Landry, Boston College
CB Josh Jackson, Iowa
These 3 probably had 1st grades minus medicals. NFL teams are the only ones who know if/when Hurst or Landry come off the board. Expect Jackson to be one of the first 5 taken tonight.

This list should have 2nd or 3rd round grades minus medical unknowns.

OL Connor Williams, Texas - Will Hernandez, UTEP - Austin Corbett, Nevada - James Daniels, Iowa - Braden Smith, Auburn

WR Courtland Sutton, SMU - DJ Chark,   LSU - Michael Gallup, Colorado State - Anthony Miller, Memphis - Deon Cain, Clemson

TE Michael Gesicki, Penn State -  Dallas Goedert, South Dakota St. -  Mark Andrews, Oklahoma -  Ian Thomas, Indiana

EDGE Lorenzo Carter, Georgia -  Josh Sweat, Florida State -  Sam Hubbard, Ohio State -  Duke Ejiofor, Wake Forest - Uchenna Nwosu, USC - Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, Oklahoma - Kemoko Turay, Rutgers -  Rasheem Green, USC

DL  Harrison Phillips, Stanford - B.J. Hill, North Carolina St. - Nathan Shepherd, Fort Hays State - P. J. Hall, Sam Houston State - Da'Shawn Hand, Alabama 

DB Isaiah Oliver, Colorado - Jessie Bates III, Wake Forest -  Quenton Meeks, Stanford - Justin Reid, Stanford

RB  Derrius Guice, LSU - Nick Chubb, Georgia -  Kerryon Johnson, Auburn

Will start a separate thread with this list for people who may want quick access to the list.     

 


Merged here RT...don't need the same thing in different areas.


Thanks RT.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 04:10:30 PM
The same guy that told me a few days ago to not be surprised if the Packers used their 14th overall pick on Alexander, has just told me not to be surprised if the Packers flip the 1st rounder they got from the Saints to the Colts if G Austin Corbett is available when the Colts are on the board. I don't think I care for that idea, but he does have a connected source. It is not in stone, but worth watching. 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: scoremore on April 27, 2018, 04:13:22 PM
That would be horrible RT. 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: scoremore on April 27, 2018, 04:15:17 PM
Well he's gone now so...
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 04:18:35 PM
The same guy that told me a few days ago to not be surprised if the Packers used their 14th overall pick on Alexander, has just told me not to be surprised if the Packers flip the 1st rounder they got from the Saints to the Colts if G Austin Corbett is available when the Colts are on the board. I don't think I care for that idea, but he does have a connected source. It is not in stone, but worth watching.




Cleveland just picked him in the second round.  Wolf and Dorsey must have the same board that the packers do.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 04:23:16 PM
The same guy that told me a few days ago to not be surprised if the Packers used their 14th overall pick on Alexander, has just told me not to be surprised if the Packers flip the 1st rounder they got from the Saints to the Colts if G Austin Corbett is available when the Colts are on the board. I don't think I care for that idea, but he does have a connected source. It is not in stone, but worth watching.




Cleveland just picked him in the second round.  Wolf and Dorsey must have the same board that the packers do.

Ward last night, Corbett tonight. You are probably right.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 04:27:24 PM
Darn, the Auburn guard Smith was a guy I was really hoping would get to the Packers.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 04:36:46 PM
Almost all the 2nd day OL are gone already.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: LMG on April 27, 2018, 04:37:48 PM
Anyone you like that seems to be sliding?


Landry?
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Shinesman on April 27, 2018, 04:41:45 PM
Sutton is gone, thought he might be in play.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 04:43:29 PM
so we go WR , Christian Kirk or DJ Chark?   Have to put Washington in there also
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: phanatic1 on April 27, 2018, 04:44:27 PM
This is going really out on a limb here - but do the Packers dare go back and take another one of the DB's that are sitting there??
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 04:46:26 PM
I would think if Conner Williams is there he would be the pick.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Shinesman on April 27, 2018, 04:48:09 PM
This is going really out on a limb here - but do the Packers dare go back and take another one of the DB's that are sitting there??

I said that earlier in the thread, with everyone they passed on first round, a DB may be the best player there at their selection. I wouldnt doubt it one bit. Which makes me sad. They have to know at some point the front seven had to get home for any cornerbacks to have success.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 04:49:03 PM
If they have a trade partner, a trade back 5-10 picks would be OK.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 04:51:13 PM
Gesicki gone dang
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 04:53:01 PM
This is going really out on a limb here - but do the Packers dare go back and take another one of the DB's that are sitting there??

You could put that critical CB position in a good position for a while.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: phanatic1 on April 27, 2018, 04:53:45 PM
If they have a trade partner, a trade back 5-10 picks would be OK.

How far down would Gute have to go to maybe get a 3rd back??
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
Lorenzo Carter, Georgia is still there also.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: LMG on April 27, 2018, 04:57:17 PM
Ya like CB Josh Jackson?


Can he make it by the 49ers who just traded up ahead of us?
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 04:58:48 PM
If they have a trade partner, a trade back 5-10 picks would be OK.

How far down would Gute have to go to maybe get a 3rd back??

Don't think like that, think in multiples.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 04:59:10 PM
Sam Hubbard is still there.  Were on the clock
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 04:59:48 PM
Id trade back a few spots if they can.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 05:01:02 PM
Wow, Pettis was our guy, that is why the 49ers traded up.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: LMG on April 27, 2018, 05:01:22 PM
Pick is in.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: JQ on April 27, 2018, 05:01:57 PM
I Like Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, Edge/DE here.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 05:03:57 PM
Wow, are they telling us something about King?
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 05:04:37 PM
our secondary is know 360 degrees different.  Love the Pick
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: phanatic1 on April 27, 2018, 05:04:49 PM
There ya go!  Josh Jackson.  Doubling up. 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 05:05:14 PM
Wow, are they telling us something about King?

Telling us something about Rollins.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 05:06:32 PM
Wow, are they telling us something about King?

Telling us something about Rollins.



outside with King and Jackson , slot with Alexander..sweet.   Great value Jackson and Alexander both first round grades
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: JQ on April 27, 2018, 05:07:43 PM
I doubt Josh Jackson has anything to do with Kenny King. Jackson is a terrific value at a position that has plagued the Packers the past two seasons. AND they’ve got a 35 YO Tramon and oft injured Davon in the fold...

Guty is looking ahead a couple years, like TT often did.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 05:08:34 PM
our secondary is know 360 degrees different.  Love the Pick

Agree.   Put that position to bed.  LOVE IT!!!!!
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Starr2Max on April 27, 2018, 05:11:50 PM
Looks like our defense is pressured up the middle and stifling coverage.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: JQ on April 27, 2018, 05:12:13 PM
our secondary is know 360 degrees different.  Love the Pick

Agree.   Put that position to bed.  LOVE IT!!!!!

But maybe make that 180 degrees different...( - ; #

Now, can Gutey package some of those lower round spots to garner a 3rd round pick, or maybe even get into the 2nd???
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 05:15:17 PM
our secondary is know 360 degrees different.  Love the Pick

Agree.   Put that position to bed.  LOVE IT!!!!!

Maybe make that 180 degrees different...( - ; #

Now, can Gutey package some of those lower round spots to garner a 3rd round pick, or maybe even get into the 2nd???

Good catch! thumbsup)
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 05:20:13 PM
A similar question to yours JQ, would you trade next years 2nd for a pick in the top of the 3rd? Having 2 first rounders in the bank for next year would give them that option.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Fargofootball on April 27, 2018, 05:20:20 PM
KK and JJ will be a fine duo at CB.

I know it's early but what pick in the 3rd were looking at trading up for?

Noteboom? Fitts? Sweat?


I tend to cross off WR as we will find a way to get Fountain with a 5th.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: ricky on April 27, 2018, 05:48:28 PM
Wow, are they telling us something about King?

Telling us something about Rollins.

Also telling us that apparently TT made a mistake with his first two picks a couple years ago. Now, they have to clean up the mess. And I'm a huge defender of TT. He took a chance and apparently whiffed.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: claymaker on April 27, 2018, 05:59:22 PM

outside with King and Jackson , slot with Alexander..sweet.   Great value Jackson and Alexander both first round grades

I think we'll see more of Alexander on the outside TBH. Better cover guy and more of a technician than Jackson. They're both instinctive guys, but Alexander takes less chances. I want to see what Jackson can do closer to the ball. Essentially, I think they'll both develop into versatile corners capable of lining up everywhere but right now, between the two, Alexander is my choice for starting/playing on the boundary. Both players were team captains and appear to high character and self respecting young men, exactly the type of players Green Bay looks for early and throughout the draft.

When they traded back and up AND Jackson didn't get picked late in the 1st I knew Green Bay, if given the chance, would draft him in the second. I thought they landed a CB in Alexander equal and better in some regards to Ward. Now they've completely filled the ranks with talent, speed, and brought in seasoned vets to help bring them along.

Already five deep and the young guys down the depth chart who saw time last year, Green Bay seems to filled this gap on defense finally. It was lacking speed at the position and they fixed that with King and Alexander. It was minus a couple of +height guys as well and fixed that with King last year and Jackson is on the positive end of that spectrum too.

Everyone wants the pass rusher, but all things considered they have a good pass rush. Matthews+Perry is still one of the better combos in the league. Now with Daniels+Clark+Wilkerson the pass rush isn't in such dire straits. It is true they are thin on the edge, but who in this league isn't? I'm not sure they can add much more to their pass rush besides another body or two, which isn't helpful imo. They have bodies in guys like Fackrell and Biegel, so pass rusher has fallen off my radar now. It's still a need but it's not a need they can address anymore with what's left. Would much rather see them stock up on the OLine tomorrow or later tonight, I guess. 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: scoremore on April 27, 2018, 05:59:57 PM
Ricky, Blame Elliot and Alonzo it's their fault...
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 06:04:04 PM
Wow, are they telling us something about King?

Telling us something about Rollins.

Also telling us that apparently TT made a mistake with his first two picks a couple years ago. Now, they have to clean up the mess. And I'm a huge defender of TT. He took a chance and apparently whiffed.

Yep, these new guys need to come in and develop, otherwise we do this again in a few years.  We can love picks today (as I do) but the real test is on the field.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: scoremore on April 27, 2018, 06:06:44 PM
Wow, are they telling us something about King?

Telling us something about Rollins.

Also telling us that apparently TT made a mistake with his first two picks a couple years ago. Now, they have to clean up the mess. And I'm a huge defender of TT. He took a chance and apparently whiffed.

Yep, these new guys need to come in and develop, otherwise we do this again in a few years.  We can love picks today (as I do) but the real test is on the field.

Think they got it right this time.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: claymaker on April 27, 2018, 06:08:29 PM
Wow, are they telling us something about King?

Telling us something about Rollins.

Also telling us that apparently TT made a mistake with his first two picks a couple years ago. Now, they have to clean up the mess. And I'm a huge defender of TT. He took a chance and apparently whiffed.

Yep, these new guys need to come in and develop, otherwise we do this again in a few years.  We can love picks today (as I do) but the real test is on the field.

I think they did better this time around, specifically with Alexander. Randall wasn't a pure cover guy.

Jackson also had a visibly better one year wonder than Rollins did. He was productive and he covered well.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Ptpaq on April 27, 2018, 06:12:24 PM
This is the 3rd time in recent history we have had to doubly invest first and second round picks on db’s. This just has to hit because we can’t keep missing opportunities to address value elsewhere. I wonder if Josh will go to safety.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 06:17:26 PM
It is kinda painful watching all these quality players going off the board. Save some for tomorrow.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: The GM on April 27, 2018, 06:18:46 PM
This is the 3rd time in recent history we have had to doubly invest first and second round picks on db’s. This just has to hit because we can’t keep missing opportunities to address value elsewhere. I wonder if Josh will go to safety.

The good thing us our D is under new management.  I think and hope that makes a difference.  As Gute is proving so far, some new blood and a fresh start can do wonders.

To be fair, I have no idea how much influence TT has in the war-room. He might be orchestrating some of this.  No idea.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 06:58:51 PM
Darn Seahawks, took my player.  :D
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 07:17:18 PM
They are at the point in the 3rd round where the Packers can easily trade back in if they truly want too.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 07:20:24 PM
Packers are on the clock.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: phanatic1 on April 27, 2018, 07:21:10 PM
Packers back on the clock! 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 07:28:23 PM
Oren Burks, Vanderbilt was a player they had in for a visit. Needed to get ahead of the Rams who wanted him to replace Alec Ogletree. Good Pick, will be an upgrade from Joe Thomas.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 07:29:47 PM
hmm.  Burks 6'3" 233 lbs.  Draftek has him rated at 406 in the draft.  I think he would have been there at 4.1.  Geez.  Sounds like he should have been rated higher that's where you have to believe in your scouting department.

I thought Deshawn Hand would have had more upside there, but guess we will find out.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MrJuly4th on April 27, 2018, 07:30:45 PM
Burks has played both ILB and Safety.


Strengths
Well-proportioned between upper and lower body
Has broad back and long arms
Leader on and off the field
Has experience at three different positions over the last three seasons
Fits as 4-3 WILL or 3-4 inside linebacker
Former safety with athletic ability to handle coverage duties at linebacker
Range and pursuit speed is above average
Possesses good lateral twitch
Has reactive athleticism to spring into adjacent gap as tackler
Plays with good toughness
Willing to take on pulling guards with good force
Continued to improve as season progressed
Has talent to become a core special-teamer

Weaknesses
Will make mistakes in diagnosing that pull him out of position
Still learning the position, but instincts may be average for a role as inside linebacker
Below average punching and playing off blockers
Gets engulfed and will need to become more capable in slipping or playing around blocks
Gets neutralized in the hole
Has to become more effective at imposing his will despite physical challenges
Consistency as a tackler is a concern
Doesn't flow with leverage and will overshoot the ball carrier
Needs to tackle with better positioning to finish what he starts
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: scoremore on April 27, 2018, 08:22:40 PM
Watched his tape against Alabama.  Can't tackle and no instincts.  I don't like the pick at all.  Maybe he can contribute on special teams in his first year.  He better be smart because he's going to be in for a rude awakening in the NFL.  Hope I am dead wrong but hate when the Packers get cute and try to find that diamond in the rough.  He tested well athletically but that doesn't mean squat if he can't play.  Wouldn't bitch if we blew a late 5th but trading up to get this guy don't like it.  I'll look into him further and try to get behind him having a hard time right now.  One thing he can do is cover that's about it.  Don't think he'll be seeing the field this year.  Kid has to learn how to play the position.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 08:35:17 PM
hmm.  Burks 6'3" 233 lbs.  Draftek has him rated at 406 in the draft.  I think he would have been there at 4.1.  Geez.  Sounds like he should have been rated higher that's where you have to believe in your scouting department.

I thought Deshawn Hand would have had more upside there, but guess we will find out.

If draftek has him as their 406th player you may want to get some other sources of information. That is a pretty bad miss for them.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: ricky on April 27, 2018, 08:36:25 PM
Watched his tape against Alabama.  Can't tackle and no instincts.  I don't like the pick at all.  Maybe he can contribute on special teams in his first year.  He better be smart because he's going to be in for a rude awakening in the NFL.  Hope I am dead wrong but hate when the Packers get cute and try to find that diamond in the rough.  He tested well athletically but that doesn't mean squat if he can't play.  Wouldn't bitch if we blew a late 5th but trading up to get this guy don't like it.  I'll look into him further and try to get behind him having a hard time right now.  One thing he can do is cover that's about it.  Don't think he'll be seeing the field this year.  Kid has to learn how to play the position.

Another "draft and develop" pick. Since the Packers moved up to get him, they must have had him targetted. So, we'll see.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: morango on April 27, 2018, 08:56:40 PM
Wow, are they telling us something about King?

Telling us something about Rollins.

Also telling us that apparently TT made a mistake with his first two picks a couple years ago. Now, they have to clean up the mess. And I'm a huge defender of TT. He took a chance and apparently whiffed.

Yep, these new guys need to come in and develop, otherwise we do this again in a few years.  We can love picks today (as I do) but the real test is on the field.

I think they did better this time around, specifically with Alexander. Randall wasn't a pure cover guy.

Jackson also had a visibly better one year wonder than Rollins did. He was productive and he covered well.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Randall resurrect his career in Cleveland playing safety which he probably should have been all along.

Also it appears that some of the cornerbacks currently on the roster will be cut.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Ptpaq on April 27, 2018, 09:01:06 PM
Look Burks is a great kid/ athlete and its not personal but man he looks lost at all times and can’t get off a block from players 20lb’s less than him to save his life. Over Okoronkwo? Josh Sweat? Griffin?

Man we could have been going into tomorrow with Derwin James PLUS Harold Landry.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: MO.Pack on April 27, 2018, 09:20:44 PM
Look Burks is a great kid/ athlete and its not personal but man he looks lost at all times and can’t get off a block from players 20lb’s less than him to save his life. Over Okoronkwo? Josh Sweat? Griffin?

Man we could have been going into tomorrow with Derwin James PLUS Harold Landry.




Must be missing something.  Would have gotten James at 14 Landry was picked at 9 in the second, packers picked 13th.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Ptpaq on April 27, 2018, 09:35:40 PM
Look Burks is a great kid/ athlete and its not personal but man he looks lost at all times and can’t get off a block from players 20lb’s less than him to save his life. Over Okoronkwo? Josh Sweat? Griffin?

Man we could have been going into tomorrow with Derwin James PLUS Harold Landry.




Must be missing something.  Would have gotten James at 14 Landry was picked at 9 in the second, packers picked 13th.

Right. Well Tennessee used their 3rd to trade up and get him. If we stay put and select Derwin, we keep our 3rd rounder and would have had plenty of additional ammunition to outbid Tennessee for that move up. I understand we have the future 1st and I’m not saying the Packers even wanted Derwin/Landry (since it is clear they oassed in both). Was just speaking for myself there.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 27, 2018, 11:51:28 PM
From McGinn

12. OREN BURKS, Vanderbilt (6-3, 232, 4.62, 4): Started 19 games at free safety in 2014-’15 before shifting to ILB in a 3-4 defense the past two years. “Smart as a whip,” said one scout. “There’s no doubt this guy will play. What a great kid. This is the type of kid you search for.” Finished with 237 tackles (15 1/2 for loss), 4 ½ sacks, five interceptions and 26 passes defensed. Tied for the positional lead in the vertical jump (39 ½) and led the broad jump (10-10). “Good instincts against the run,” a second scout said. “Can roam, match up and blitz on third down. Tough.” Wonderlic of 24. From  Fairfax Station, Va.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: footballdad on April 28, 2018, 01:36:10 AM
Hopefully the CB position is finally solidified. I don't want to say other positions have been neglected in the past, but they have. At least near the top end of the draft.
Liking the draft so far. Any complaints would be of the nit pick variety. Unfortunately picking at the bottom of the 4th round, Crosby, Okoronkwo, and Sweat will likely be gone.
Wish list for day 3:
Jamarco Jones
Daurice Fountain
Troy Fumagalli
Quin Blanding
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: Twain on April 28, 2018, 04:30:57 AM
I think the draft says to me that we will be playing the Rex Ryan 4-3 under and not a true 3-4 this year.

They drafted to solidify the CB position so that Pettine can tighten up coverage and force the QB to hold the ball longer.

Burks is the prototypical Will linebacker- which in that system is a smaller, faster, sideline to sideline player with cover skills.  And scoremore- Vanderbilt vs Alabama is such a mismatch that I am not sure you can grade out Burks just on that one game.  He may be like you say, but I would give it time.

With the current veterans, Daniels is likely the under tackle (3 technique), Clark the 1 technique, Willkerson the 5 technique, Perry/ Matthews the WDE.  The pass rush will come by getting single matchups on everyone but Clark.

In that system, EDGE becomes less urgent for us as the SAM doesn't require the typical EDGE skills so guys like Fackrell and Biegel, that can play in space are better for the position than a typical 3-4 OLB that functioned as an upright DE in the Capers 3-4.  The SAM and the 5 combination create the 1 on 1 for the 5 technique, and an overload blitz possibility where the SAM is unblocked.

In that system Matthews can play any of the positions of WDE, SAM, or MIKE.

It looks to me that this defense will be much better this year.  Much better.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 28, 2018, 06:10:47 AM
Good observations, Twain.

It was my concern when they hired Pettine that good quality players may be discarded over scheme fit. We see this year-in and year-out where staffs change and spent draft capital is flushed. It was said at his hire that the great thing with him was he could adjust to the skillsets of players. Hope this is true.
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: craig on April 28, 2018, 08:56:31 AM
Good thoughts, Twain and RT.  Not sure on Jackson, but seems Jaire and Burks are smart guys.  That doesn't mean Burks can diagnose quickly, I guess, or play smart on the field.  But there has been reference to Pettine's systems past wanting smart guys, not necessarily being the simplest.  These guys may have the brains to play smart, certainly same for Blake Martinez.  King is pretty smart, too, I think.  A feel I've had is that they've collected lots of fast UDFA secondary guys, but sometimes they didnt play nearly as well as their speed-numbers; something in the mental processing wasn't there. 

Ben Fennel (and many others, I'm sure) have talked about the issue of pass defense:  how much is pressure, versus how much is coverage?  Fennel argues that Matthews and the Packers pass rushers are actually OK, but that the modern NFL QB is so trained to get the ball out quick that it's VERY difficult to have time to actually make sacks.  And that the Packer secondary gave so much space that almost regardess of how fast the pass rush came, a QB could always find somebody to throw to.  Hard to get a sack when a completion can be out in 2 seconds. 

It may be that the Packers see it that way, too, and that improved coverage will do more good than an extra pass-rusher.  Hope it works out that way,  and that with more talent in the back, that the front guys will have more time to get home. 
Title: Re: April 27 Day 2 Discussions
Post by: RT on April 28, 2018, 09:06:20 AM
Good thoughts, Twain and RT.  Not sure on Jackson, but seems Jaire and Burks are smart guys.  That doesn't mean Burks can diagnose quickly, I guess, or play smart on the field.  But there has been reference to Pettine's systems past wanting smart guys, not necessarily being the simplest.  These guys may have the brains to play smart, certainly same for Blake Martinez.  King is pretty smart, too, I think.  A feel I've had is that they've collected lots of fast UDFA secondary guys, but sometimes they didnt play nearly as well as their speed-numbers; something in the mental processing wasn't there. 

Ben Fennel (and many others, I'm sure) have talked about the issue of pass defense:  how much is pressure, versus how much is coverage?  Fennel argues that Matthews and the Packers pass rushers are actually OK, but that the modern NFL QB is so trained to get the ball out quick that it's VERY difficult to have time to actually make sacks.  And that the Packer secondary gave so much space that almost regardess of how fast the pass rush came, a QB could always find somebody to throw to.  Hard to get a sack when a completion can be out in 2 seconds. 

It may be that the Packers see it that way, too, and that improved coverage will do more good than an extra pass-rusher.  Hope it works out that way,  and that with more talent in the back, that the front guys will have more time to get home.

Excellent post, agree with the theory.