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General Category => Draft Talk => Topic started by: dannobanano on August 04, 2018, 11:43:00 AM

Title: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: dannobanano on August 04, 2018, 11:43:00 AM
Just continuing some thoughts from a thread in Packers Talk where it was discussed whether or not to use one of the 2019 1st round picks for Earl Thomas.

Looking ahead at the 2019 UFA's AND the 2020 UFA's here is my reasoning as to why Gute needs to keep & use both those 1st rounders in 2019.

The Packers 2019 UFA's include:
Clay Matthews - won't be back unless he has a killer year and/or is willing to accept 1/2 or less what he's making this year
Randall Cobb - won't be back because he will want too much
Mo Wilkerson - Will only be back if he's willing to accept a contract slightly north of what he's making this year. My guess is he will want more and be gone
Marcedes Lewis - If he's a real asset this year I could see another 1 yr extension, but my sense is Gute wants to get younger at the position
Lance Kendricks - Won't be back for the same reason stated above
Byron Bell - May still be cut this year
Davon House - Won't be back next year. His veteran presence is an asset this year as the kids grow into their roles. No future for him
Quinten Rollins - On the fence here. He's playing a sort of hybrid role in the middle of the field so far and hasn't looked lost
Ty Montgomery - Won't be back next year. Expect them to draft another RB. Too much of an injury risk/history
Jake Ryan - His ACL spells the end of his time as a Packer. Too bad. Good guy
Brett Hundley - He might get cut this year
Aaron Ripkowski - Might Keep him with a low end contract extension
Demetri Goodson - He will get cut this year

There are also, 6 RFA's and 19 ERFA's (holy buckets!)
Names of interest in this group include:
Lucas Patrick
Adam Pankey
Justin McCray
Jermaine Whitehead
Kentrell Brice
Marwin Evans
Jake Kumerow
Ahmad Thomas
Reggie Gilbert
Emanuel Byrd

But now look at the key 2020 UFA's that you might want to start planning for with the 2019 draft...............
(This would have been Rodger UFA year, but we all fully expect he will be extended before the season starts this year (2018)
Mike Daniels............. These are three critical signings for the future of the Packers defense.
Kenny Clark............. With some uncertainty regarding whether or not to keep Mo Wilkerson
Dean Lowry............. What to do with these 3 members of the DL will loom large for the Packers future and is a great reason to keep both 2019 1st Rnd's
Bryan Bulaga - His injury history clouds his GB future
Jason Spriggs - His injury history and ineffectiveness clouds his GB future
Kyle Murphy - Ditto
Mason Crosby - How much does he have left in that leg? He's been missing some in camp. Is that on him or lousy long snappers?
Blake Martinez - Fast becoming a cornerstone of the defense. Better find a way to keep him, or defense could take a step back
Tramon Williams - Thanks for helping getting the young'ns up to speed, but it's bye-bye time
Lenzy Pipkins - He's growing towards being a strong 4th CB. If he stays the course, they need to keep him
Trevor Davis - Is he just a PR guy? He may be on the bubble this year
Chris Odom - Read where he's lost some weight and looks like a great fit for Pettines defense. Would be nice to see Odom, Biegel, and Gilbert all break out this year. Might not have to use a high pick in 2019 on an Edge/OLB is that happens.


Just to pull this all together.

The Packers are heading for stormy waters with regard to possibly losing several KEY players on the defensive side of the ball over the next 2 years, unless they can work some magic on early extensions and creative contract structure.

Keeping both 1st round picks for 2019 is one of the best ways to be able to plan for potential loss of some key players. Let's face it. Packers aren't going to be able to keep all of Wilkerson, Daniels, Clark, and Lowry (this is currently 80% of their DL!!). One or two good draft picks are going to be needed here, plus M-Adams becomes UFA in 2021.

Needing to keep Martinez is nearly a given at this point.

I don't see an OT of Bulaga's quality on the roster yet. So that's a high draft priority.

OLB could be a very high need if Odom/Biegel/Gilbert don't make signifcant progress

TE anyone?

Given these thoughts, IMHO, Gute needs to keep (and use wisely) all of his high draft picks for the next two years. If he can swindle more picks from teams like he did to N.O. this year.................I'm all for it! Just.........PLEASE.........don't give any picks away. Especially 1st/2nd/3rd rounders. You're going to need them all, Gute!
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: PackerJoe on August 07, 2018, 03:08:56 PM
Didn't see the worthless Perry on this list.  How much do we save by cutting him?
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: ricky on August 07, 2018, 08:02:22 PM
Didn't see the worthless Perry on this list.  How much do we save by cutting him?

The cost of cutting him would be prohibitive. $19.1 in dead cap. Here are the details:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/nick-perry-9838/
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: dannobanano on August 08, 2018, 08:11:42 AM
Didn't see the worthless Perry on this list.  How much do we save by cutting him?

The cost of cutting him would be prohibitive. $19.1 in dead cap. Here are the details:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/nick-perry-9838/

Not just the dead money.

There is no (zero) cap savings this year by letting him go. His release would reduce the Packers cap by $8,350,000 this year, and IIRC the Packers currently only have ~ $7M left in cap space.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: RT on August 08, 2018, 08:38:03 AM
Nice work putting all this together danno.

As for the 2019 and 2020 UFA's, I think the only 2 that are strong re-sign possiblities are Clark and Martinez. Spriggs and/or Murphy are yet to be determined. All the remaining on the lists are slim to no chance of recieving another contract from the Packers. Just the natural turnover of a NFL roster, re-sign the players that they identify as core players and everyone else is replaced by new draft classes.

As for Perry, he is going nowhere either, he is a core player on the Packers defense and everyone in 32 NFL front offices know how good of player he is even if some nitwit Packers fans do not. Complain if they want, but Perry will be playing out his contract with the Packers.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: craig on August 08, 2018, 09:01:00 PM
Nice post, Danno, thanks. 
Agree with main two take-home points:
1.  Need to use two firsts to draft two good players, rather than using one to trade up or trade for a pricey rental.
2.  Need to replace a bunch of players with internal talent, whether that be draftees recent, present, or future.  (Or UDFA). 

I admit that I am a big optimist, and am hopeful that a couple of guys have good healthy years and are desirable resigns.  I'm optimistic that Ty has just been the victim of some unfortunately injuries, and that he's going to be very effective this year and beyond.  That's a strong, tough guy to have played through the broken ribs last year.  I think with better health and a healthier offense, that we might appreciate him a lot more this season.

I'm also hopeful that between Cobb and Wilkerson, that both will play healthy and effectively this year, and that after the year is done, the Packers will be interested in resigning one of them. 
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: The GM on August 11, 2018, 07:50:57 PM
Good work Danno.  I think Gute will definitely lose some players, but will also be agressive in getting others.  You drop a Jordy Nelson, and pick up a Jimmy Graham.  Will it be effective? We will see, but I think going after FAs that fit will be a factor in all of this.  Nothing overpriced, but smartly vetted to fit on the team and the cap. I think some are stuck in the TT mindset. I think Gute has some of that, but is more willing to take a risk here and there.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: packdaddy on September 29, 2018, 12:20:34 AM
Didn't see the worthless Perry on this list.  How much do we save by cutting him?

The cost of cutting him would be prohibitive. $19.1 in dead cap. Here are the details:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/nick-perry-9838/

One more good pass rusher, or two, would allow for a rotation wherein Perry could thrive.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: RT on September 29, 2018, 09:35:58 AM
Perry is not playing like someone who is 100% healthy at the moment. Hopefully he starts to turn it up and make more impactful plays soon, they need him.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: ricky on September 29, 2018, 09:52:23 PM
What they needed to do was sign Mack. Two firsts would be too much? Look at what he's doing for the Bears. The guy right now is on track to be DPOY. He would have immediately made the Packers defense a lot better. Expensive? Absolutely. But how often do you get a guy who can tilt the field like him? What would you give to get Rodgers at the same age? Because Mack is that impactful on defense.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: marklawrence on September 30, 2018, 04:55:19 AM
What they needed to do was sign Mack. Two firsts would be too much? Look at what he's doing for the Bears. The guy right now is on track to be DPOY. He would have immediately made the Packers defense a lot better. Expensive? Absolutely. But how often do you get a guy who can tilt the field like him? What would you give to get Rodgers at the same age? Because Mack is that impactful on defense.

How may times will this come up? The Raiders got two Bears firsts, worth about 2100 points. Our two firsts next year are worth about 1300 points. That missing 800 points is more than another of our firsts. We would have had to offer three firsts and a second to be competitive.

Or do you think the raiders are too stupid to add?

The price was not two firsts. It was two Bears firsts.

We were offering two $5 bills. The bears were offering two $10 bills. It's really that simple. It's not, "Why didn't we offer two pieces of money?"
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on September 30, 2018, 06:31:47 AM

How may times will this come up? The Raiders got two Bears firsts, worth about 2100 points. Our two firsts next year are worth about 1300 points. That missing 800 points is more than another of our firsts. We would have had to offer three firsts and a second to be competitive.

Or do you think the raiders are too stupid to add?

A a pick in any one year is always worth more than one the following year - and the Packers could have offered two firsts this year, to the Bears one in 2019 and one in 2020. But, I still agree that the Bears picks just seem more valuable. So, the Bears now have Mack........but the Packers will probably go pass rusher very early in the next draft - they may even double down with two early picks.

More than this, Mack is gone, so there isn't much to be gained by lamenting that, any more than bringing up how the Packers 'should' have drafted T.J.Watt over King (which I think is a wash, anyway)...........or my personal favourite CB Fabian Moreau, who I really liked before the 2017 draft. Certainly I preferred him over Josh Jones in round 2 (Moreau went #81), but he plays for the Skins and JJ plays for us - it is what it is.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: Gregg on November 16, 2018, 01:37:52 PM
The game that Kyler Fackrell had last night turns a different light on the draft.

From what I can see, this is a good defensive draft.  One of the problems I see on defense is that we are overpaying for our OLB and our ILB do not cover well.

If Fackrell is for real, then we can dump Perry after this year or CM 3.  Then I would key on finding a Roque Smith type of ILB with our first pick in the draft.

The other thing I think we are missing is DL depth.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: dannobanano on November 16, 2018, 04:10:06 PM
Let's see how Kyler finishes down the stretch before we go there.

I've been very surprised and pleased with how he seems to have "transformed". If he continues what he's been doing, then it will help when it comes draft time.

Drafting DL will be important, mostly because Daniels, Clark, and Lowry will all be free agents in 2020.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: SET4YRS on November 16, 2018, 06:34:26 PM
 They can pick up the 5th year option on Clark, but they may as well lock him up when they do that. Will be a big contract.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: PackerJoe on December 17, 2018, 01:00:23 PM
So folks on the board think Perry is worth keeping.  He has played less than 15 games over the past three years!  He has averaged one tackle a game!  One tackle a game! You think he is good!  Again, the Packers tend to keep lousy, untalented, bums around and get rid of folks like Hayward, not an all pro, Hyde, an all pro, Tretter will be all pro this year.  he's making $750,000.00 a game for being a non-performing, non-showing up, non-existing resource on this team.  I have heard folks say, yeah but he holds the edge!  How many sacks has he had the last three years?  How many did he have before the big contract?  I understand the cap concerns, why didn't we get rid of him sooner and we had excess cap space!!!!  Keeping him around gives us the double whammy of a no talent, non-producing rusher who cash straps us!!!
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: The GM on December 17, 2018, 08:12:03 PM
So folks on the board think Perry is worth keeping.  He has played less than 15 games over the past three years!  He has averaged one tackle a game!  One tackle a game! You think he is good!  Again, the Packers tend to keep lousy, untalented, bums around and get rid of folks like Hayward, not an all pro, Hyde, an all pro, Tretter will be all pro this year.  he's making $750,000.00 a game for being a non-performing, non-showing up, non-existing resource on this team.  I have heard folks say, yeah but he holds the edge!  How many sacks has he had the last three years?  How many did he have before the big contract?  I understand the cap concerns, why didn't we get rid of him sooner and we had excess cap space!!!!  Keeping him around gives us the double whammy of a no talent, non-producing rusher who cash straps us!!!
Agree with this.  I dont think they can cut because of the cap hit, clearly one of the most boneheaded signings of the Thompson era.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: Shinesman on December 17, 2018, 10:42:48 PM
So folks on the board think Perry is worth keeping.  He has played less than 15 games over the past three years!  He has averaged one tackle a game!  One tackle a game! You think he is good!  Again, the Packers tend to keep lousy, untalented, bums around and get rid of folks like Hayward, not an all pro, Hyde, an all pro, Tretter will be all pro this year.  he's making $750,000.00 a game for being a non-performing, non-showing up, non-existing resource on this team.  I have heard folks say, yeah but he holds the edge!  How many sacks has he had the last three years?  How many did he have before the big contract?  I understand the cap concerns, why didn't we get rid of him sooner and we had excess cap space!!!!  Keeping him around gives us the double whammy of a no talent, non-producing rusher who cash straps us!!!
Agree with this.  I dont think they can cut because of the cap hit, clearly one of the most boneheaded signings of the Thompson era.

The theme of the Thompson era was to draft guys and play them at a different position. Probably a big reason for poor performance. Randall comes to mind, he played safety in college. Rarely can a safety convert to CB, a CB must have quickness in space and acceleration as a top attribute. Safeties are normally safeties because their acceleration and change of direction is not sufficient to be a CB. We trade him to Cleveland, and he is playing pretty well, at his natural position I believe.

We always draft tackles and try to make them guards. Doesnt end up working very much. Why not draft a damn guard to play guard? And stop resigning guys who have never played a whole season and have recurring issues, and have clearly been overrated most of their career (Bulaga).

We drafted Sherrod, who was known to  be a project. You dont draft projects in the first round, unless by project, you mean someone who is so athletically superior that improving their skills means making them all-pros in a year or two. Someone like Clowney.

Perry, a natural 3-4 DE, forced to play OLB..... again, one season of decent production.

Rollins, a guy who had I think 2 years of playing football?  Maybe you take him in round 5-7, not round 2.

We took an often injured guy in college. He has yet to finish a whole season for us.

We draft plodding ILBs like Jake Ryan or that kid from ASU a few years back, then wonder why they cant perform in a defense that requires faster middle linebackers to track the ball carrier and take on blockers at the line in pursuit.

We flat out ignored the most important position in our defense for years!!!! What else do you need to know about our management other than that.

I remember how many people here used to scoff at the thought of drafting the actual player you needed instead of a guy who could play two spots in college. But if the guy is average at two spots in college, hes really nothing in the NFL. Versatility means nothing if you get owned by all the different opposition you have to take on at those positions. This is the price you pay for drafting like you want permanent backups instead of impactful players.

This front office has a lot of work to do, to undo the mistakes in the past 5 years. We just signed a new scouting director if the rumors are true, so maybe our draft board will finally be stacked properly. I'm hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: dannobanano on December 18, 2018, 06:03:14 AM

The theme of the Thompson era was to draft guys and play them at a different position. Probably a big reason for poor performance. Randall comes to mind, he played safety in college. Rarely can a safety convert to CB, a CB must have quickness in space and acceleration as a top attribute. Safeties are normally safeties because their acceleration and change of direction is not sufficient to be a CB. We trade him to Cleveland, and he is playing pretty well, at his natural position I believe.

We always draft tackles and try to make them guards. Doesnt end up working very much. Why not draft a damn guard to play guard? And stop resigning guys who have never played a whole season and have recurring issues, and have clearly been overrated most of their career (Bulaga).

We drafted Sherrod, who was known to  be a project. You dont draft projects in the first round, unless by project, you mean someone who is so athletically superior that improving their skills means making them all-pros in a year or two. Someone like Clowney.

Perry, a natural 3-4 DE, forced to play OLB..... again, one season of decent production.

Rollins, a guy who had I think 2 years of playing football?  Maybe you take him in round 5-7, not round 2.

We took an often injured guy in college. He has yet to finish a whole season for us.

We draft plodding ILBs like Jake Ryan or that kid from ASU a few years back, then wonder why they cant perform in a defense that requires faster middle linebackers to track the ball carrier and take on blockers at the line in pursuit.

We flat out ignored the most important position in our defense for years!!!! What else do you need to know about our management other than that.

I remember how many people here used to scoff at the thought of drafting the actual player you needed instead of a guy who could play two spots in college. But if the guy is average at two spots in college, hes really nothing in the NFL. Versatility means nothing if you get owned by all the different opposition you have to take on at those positions. This is the price you pay for drafting like you want permanent backups instead of impactful players.

This front office has a lot of work to do, to undo the mistakes in the past 5 years. We just signed a new scouting director if the rumors are true, so maybe our draft board will finally be stacked properly. I'm hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.

you made a couple of good points with Randall playing CB rather than Safety and the slowness of Ryan. Bradford was an edge rusher who didn't cut it at edge, so they tried him at ILB and that failed as well............just a failed pick in general.

But you went off the rails with your comment about converting OT's into G's.

At draft time there are numerous OT's that are projected at G in the NFL because they lack the proper dimensions/size and athleticism to make it as OT's in the NFL. Many of them convert to G and have successful NFL careers and GB has done that with several over the years. Darryn Colledge, Josh Sitton, and TJ Lang were all OT's in college but moved to G in the NFL. Currently Lane Taylor is another example of converting a college OT to G in the NFL. He had a down year this year, but he was also nagged by several injuries. I hope he bounces back next year.

You could have added converting WR's to TE's as well, and cited Bostick as an example........but I digress.

Your argument was valid until you went a bridge too far on converting OT's to G's. Most teams do it every year.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: Shinesman on December 18, 2018, 02:06:34 PM

The theme of the Thompson era was to draft guys and play them at a different position. Probably a big reason for poor performance. Randall comes to mind, he played safety in college. Rarely can a safety convert to CB, a CB must have quickness in space and acceleration as a top attribute. Safeties are normally safeties because their acceleration and change of direction is not sufficient to be a CB. We trade him to Cleveland, and he is playing pretty well, at his natural position I believe.

We always draft tackles and try to make them guards. Doesnt end up working very much. Why not draft a damn guard to play guard? And stop resigning guys who have never played a whole season and have recurring issues, and have clearly been overrated most of their career (Bulaga).

We drafted Sherrod, who was known to  be a project. You dont draft projects in the first round, unless by project, you mean someone who is so athletically superior that improving their skills means making them all-pros in a year or two. Someone like Clowney.

Perry, a natural 3-4 DE, forced to play OLB..... again, one season of decent production.

Rollins, a guy who had I think 2 years of playing football?  Maybe you take him in round 5-7, not round 2.

We took an often injured guy in college. He has yet to finish a whole season for us.

We draft plodding ILBs like Jake Ryan or that kid from ASU a few years back, then wonder why they cant perform in a defense that requires faster middle linebackers to track the ball carrier and take on blockers at the line in pursuit.

We flat out ignored the most important position in our defense for years!!!! What else do you need to know about our management other than that.

I remember how many people here used to scoff at the thought of drafting the actual player you needed instead of a guy who could play two spots in college. But if the guy is average at two spots in college, hes really nothing in the NFL. Versatility means nothing if you get owned by all the different opposition you have to take on at those positions. This is the price you pay for drafting like you want permanent backups instead of impactful players.

This front office has a lot of work to do, to undo the mistakes in the past 5 years. We just signed a new scouting director if the rumors are true, so maybe our draft board will finally be stacked properly. I'm hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.

you made a couple of good points with Randall playing CB rather than Safety and the slowness of Ryan. Bradford was an edge rusher who didn't cut it at edge, so they tried him at ILB and that failed as well............just a failed pick in general.

But you went off the rails with your comment about converting OT's into G's.

At draft time there are numerous OT's that are projected at G in the NFL because they lack the proper dimensions/size and athleticism to make it as OT's in the NFL. Many of them convert to G and have successful NFL careers and GB has done that with several over the years. Darryn Colledge, Josh Sitton, and TJ Lang were all OT's in college but moved to G in the NFL. Currently Lane Taylor is another example of converting a college OT to G in the NFL. He had a down year this year, but he was also nagged by several injuries. I hope he bounces back next year.

You could have added converting WR's to TE's as well, and cited Bostick as an example........but I digress.

Your argument was valid until you went a bridge too far on converting OT's to G's. Most teams do it every year.

Guards are roadgraders, if someone hasn't been playing that way, it's tough to adjust to it at the highest level of competition. I agree it's an easier transition than most others but it's still something of a higher gamble than drafting a guard.

I thought they drafted Bradford with the intention of moving him inside because he lacked size. I didnt even touch on Thornton, who was a complete reach.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: marklawrence on December 18, 2018, 06:27:10 PM
Guards are road graders unless your ol does zone blocking, in which case sideways movement is critical. And that's why we convert ot to g.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: Shinesman on December 18, 2018, 09:39:41 PM
Guards are road graders unless your ol does zone blocking, in which case sideways movement is critical. And that's why we convert ot to g.

Well I guess we are bad at converting. Anyone running not named Aaron Jones had a tough time finding openings consistently.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: PackerJoe on December 24, 2018, 07:27:50 AM
As of this am, we have the 14th pick and NO.  So, I don't wish ill will on them, but I'm kind of hoping they lose their first playoff game.  That will give us another pick in the 20-24 range.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: dannobanano on December 24, 2018, 07:44:44 AM
As of this am, we have the 14th pick and NO.  So, I don't wish ill will on them, but I'm kind of hoping they lose their first playoff game.  That will give us another pick in the 20-24 range.

I read this morning that #25 is the best to hope for from Saints pick.


I stand corrected. #27 is best to hope for.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/23/reassessing-packers-draft-pick-positioning-after-win-over-jets/
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: PackerJoe on February 15, 2019, 06:17:07 PM
I read somewhere our cap space is currently at plus 50mil.  Get rid of Mathews and Cobb that is another 20 mil, get rid of perry after june 1, that's another 5 mil.  Not that I want to spend that much, but oh yeah I do.  Dee Ford and Earl Thomas come to mind along with Golden Tate.  Maybe a guard like Chance WarmacK.  That might help this team out as long as they draft the right people!

Defense comes first and I don't want to see a wr drafted til rd 4! 
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: RT on February 15, 2019, 07:25:11 PM
I read somewhere our cap space is currently at plus 50mil.  Get rid of Mathews and Cobb that is another 20 mil, get rid of perry after june 1, that's another 5 mil.  Not that I want to spend that much, but oh yeah I do.  Dee Ford and Earl Thomas come to mind along with Golden Tate.  Maybe a guard like Chance WarmacK.  That might help this team out as long as they draft the right people!

Defense comes first and I don't want to see a wr drafted til rd 4!

Here, please educate yourself a little bit.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

I started a thread, 'Who's under contract' and it list all the players currently counting against the salary cap. Matthews and Cobb are both free agents, so there is no 'another 20 mil' by not bringing them back for next season.   
 
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: footballdad on February 16, 2019, 03:43:09 AM
I read somewhere our cap space is currently at plus 50mil.  Get rid of Mathews and Cobb that is another 20 mil, get rid of perry after june 1, that's another 5 mil.  Not that I want to spend that much, but oh yeah I do.  Dee Ford and Earl Thomas come to mind along with Golden Tate.  Maybe a guard like Chance WarmacK.  That might help this team out as long as they draft the right people!

Defense comes first and I don't want to see a wr drafted til rd 4!

Ok. I'm confused. Matthews and Cobb are free agents. They are gone. Cap space is in the 30's, not 50 million.

In another thread, just yesterday you said all of the receivers drafted last year were "garbage" and that you wanted them to draft "good" receivers this year. Now you do not want any drafted until round 4. Oooooohkayyyy...........
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: PackerJoe on February 16, 2019, 06:17:56 PM
I think this team has far deeper issues on defense than offense.  So we drafted three WR's last year, none of them lit up the world and in fact costs us a few games.   Those picks could've been used better somewhere else, and I still don't understand a punter in the 5th rd. , water over the dam!  I'm not at all impressed with the WR's coming out this year being touted as 1st and 2nd rd talents.  I think there are some very good WR's coming out who will be available in rds 3-6.  Dare I say, much better than the piule of heap we got last year in the draft.  I do like Kumerow who wasn't drafted.  Hope he stays healthy!!!

My choices (Boykin from Notre Dame - Big body, chain mover, deadly in the red zone 6'6" 245 lbs.  now tell me who is going to guard this monster?)  LED ND in TD's YAC, Receptions, etc.  Last guy to do that at ND is in the hall of fame and played 16 years with the Raiders!

Terry Godwin, Georgia probably the best route runner coming out.  Was injured so he might be off the radar screen a bit, so if we are lucky he will drop and maybe into our hands.  Very similar to Donald Driver.

Johnson from Buffalo is a very good route receiver and not afraid to go over the middle.  I think we had about ten passes caught over the middle by a wide receiver last year and Adams had ten of them.  This used to be one of our strengths, now it is a weakness and other teams know it.  We are being restricted by what we run on offense because of this.   

Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: Uncle Josh on February 17, 2019, 05:25:06 AM
PackerJoe, I don't know what you expect from a rookie receiver, but both MVS and ESB had excellent first years. Valdes-Scantling is probably our fastest player from scrimmage, and it wouldn't surprise me if he became our #2 boundary receiver before season's end. At 6' 4", 206 and running a 4.37, what's not to like?? -- those are 1st round measurables we stole at the end of round 5. He's been training with Randy Moss and if he pick up any of his game, we'll have the steal of the 2018 draft. Similarly, Equanimeous St. Brown stands 6' 4 3/4", 214 and runs a 4.48-- rare size and speed to be found all the way down into round 6! Many scouts had him ranked as high as round 2! He showed excellent hands and seemed to find open spots over the middle-- something we've been missing for awhile. He will no doubt challenge MVS for that starter spot(as Geronimo Allison is not the long-term answer there). Two absolute steals high on my board that I was overjoyed to see us get! Now I'll admit I never wanted J'Mon Moore in the fourth round-- and he's struggled quite a bit and is no lock to even make the team-- but he does possess very good route running ability and definitely has a chance. You mentioned Miles Boykin being 6' 6", 245. Try 6' 2 5/8", 228. A slight difference. His 4.6 40 isn't all that impressive, either. I don't know what you expect from a rookie wideout-- but both Valdes-Scantling and EQ surpassed expectations and almost every Packers rookie WR EVER, in fact. Your grasp on reality may be slightly skewed as it pertains to drafted WRs.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: claymaker on February 17, 2019, 08:31:04 AM
I think this team has far deeper issues on defense than offense.  So we drafted three WR's last year, none of them lit up the world and in fact costs us a few games.   Those picks could've been used better somewhere else, and I still don't understand a punter in the 5th rd. , water over the dam!  I'm not at all impressed with the WR's coming out this year being touted as 1st and 2nd rd talents.  I think there are some very good WR's coming out who will be available in rds 3-6.  Dare I say, much better than the piule of heap we got last year in the draft.  I do like Kumerow who wasn't drafted.  Hope he stays healthy!!!

My choices (Boykin from Notre Dame - Big body, chain mover, deadly in the red zone 6'6" 245 lbs.  now tell me who is going to guard this monster?)  LED ND in TD's YAC, Receptions, etc.  Last guy to do that at ND is in the hall of fame and played 16 years with the Raiders!

Terry Godwin, Georgia probably the best route runner coming out.  Was injured so he might be off the radar screen a bit, so if we are lucky he will drop and maybe into our hands.  Very similar to Donald Driver.

Johnson from Buffalo is a very good route receiver and not afraid to go over the middle.  I think we had about ten passes caught over the middle by a wide receiver last year and Adams had ten of them.  This used to be one of our strengths, now it is a weakness and other teams know it.  We are being restricted by what we run on offense because of this.   

Considering both Cobb and Allison went down for most of the year MVS and Brown were great choices and paid off instantly. Even Moore helped ease the burden of injuries to the position. Defenses also kept an eye on MVS throughout year and respected his speed. It's true they didn't set the world on fire as rookies, but name another position(s) in those spots that would have been more positively impacted from last year's draft. They will need to address the slot WR, but imagine what the WR position would have looked like without those three players last year.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: PackerJoe on February 17, 2019, 11:10:57 AM
I guess I can let the cat out of the bag.  I know Myles personally, I'm 6"3" 220lbs. and he is at least three inches taller than I am and a tat big more weightier and alot more muscular.

I tried attaching a picture, don't think he is 6'2" as you stated and he is closer to 250 at this time.

Here's the ND roster posts:

Miles Boykin | 81
WR | SR |  Notre Dame
Ht: 6040 | Wt: 225 | Upd: 12/29/2018
Hometown: Tinley Park, IL | High School: Providence Catholic

HONORS AND AWARDS

Citrus Bowl MVP (2018)
SENIOR SEASON (2018)

Led team during the regular season with 803 receiving yards on 54 catches and eight TDs
Had at least one TD catch in six straight games (STAN, VT, PITT, NAVY, NW, FSU), the longest such streak by an Irish WR since Will Fuller in 2014
Eclipsed 100 receiving yards in three games and had two games with multiple TD catches
Snared 11 receptions for 144 yards and a score against Stanford
Made a pair of TD catches among eight receptions for 117 yards at No. 24 Virginia Tech
Had four catches and two TD grabs against Navy

Not going to argue with this one. 

Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: dannobanano on February 17, 2019, 01:25:15 PM
Maybe we should draft Boykin as a TE then!?

Packers already have one of those tall/heavy WR's on the roster.

Allen Lazard/WR/Iowa State
6-5/227
(2017) Senior year
71 receptions
941 yds
10 TD's

https://www.packers.com/team/players-roster/allen-lazard/ (https://www.packers.com/team/players-roster/allen-lazard/)

BTW.........Boykin is listed as 6-4/228

http://www.cfbstats.com/2018/player/513/1072176/index.html (http://www.cfbstats.com/2018/player/513/1072176/index.html)
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: Hands on February 19, 2019, 07:16:08 AM
Lazard and Boykins are similar receivers. They have speed but usually considered possession receivers. If PackerJoe is correct...Boykin could be a TE candidate, but not Lazard. Lazard doesn't have the weight/strength to become one.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: dannobanano on February 19, 2019, 08:31:41 AM
Let’s see what Boykins measures (Ht/Wt) at the Combine.

ESPN lists him at 6-4/228.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3932423/miles-boykin

That’s an inch shorter than Lazard and 1 lb heavier.

On average, players tend to measure shorter and lighter when they show up at the Combine, so Packkaw’s claims will be interesting to follow.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: Uncle Josh on February 20, 2019, 08:20:13 AM
I get all my H/W/40-times from nfldraftscout.com. They've been fairly reliable compared to many sources that tend to inflate measurables. Granted, college athletes are still growing and can put on/lose lbs. at the drop of a hat-- but if Miles Boykin is 6' 6"-- I'll eat said hat.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: RT on February 20, 2019, 08:51:15 AM
I get all my H/W/40-times from nfldraftscout.com. They've been fairly reliable compared to many sources that tend to inflate measurables. Granted, college athletes are still growing and can put on/lose lbs. at the drop of a hat-- but if Miles Boykin is 6' 6"-- I'll eat said hat.

The combine is right around the corner and their will be no fudging of numbers after that. Every year most teams have some new large WR that is going to set the world on fire, he is going to be just unstoppable. But each year they come and go only to be replaced by the next unstoppable oversized WR. The 3-cone drill is the place that will expose them as having a chance to be the real deal or if he is a fraud. What is Miles Boykin? I have no idea at this moment, but after the combine most should have a very good idea.   
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: claymaker on February 23, 2019, 08:15:49 AM
I get all my H/W/40-times from nfldraftscout.com. They've been fairly reliable compared to many sources that tend to inflate measurables. Granted, college athletes are still growing and can put on/lose lbs. at the drop of a hat-- but if Miles Boykin is 6' 6"-- I'll eat said hat.

The combine is right around the corner and their will be no fudging of numbers after that. Every year most teams have some new large WR that is going to set the world on fire, he is going to be just unstoppable. But each year they come and go only to be replaced by the next unstoppable oversized WR. The 3-cone drill is the place that will expose them as having a chance to be the real deal or if he is a fraud. What is Miles Boykin? I have no idea at this moment, but after the combine most should have a very good idea.

Very good point. Consider the amount of WRs over 6'4 or even 6'5 and look at how many of them are successful the list is very small. Mike Evans, that's really about it. Most big WRs are in the 6'3 range. I think people get their head stuck in the clouds over big WRs, pretending they have a reasonable shot at being the next Calvin Johnson. The larger bodied receivers often end up being solid contributors instead of number 1 options. I feel like they already have that with MVS and St. Brown, and to a larger extent the potential to be a playmaker like Adams rests with Moore. We'll see but I really like what they did to address the future of WR last year.
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: RT on February 23, 2019, 08:32:26 AM
I get all my H/W/40-times from nfldraftscout.com. They've been fairly reliable compared to many sources that tend to inflate measurables. Granted, college athletes are still growing and can put on/lose lbs. at the drop of a hat-- but if Miles Boykin is 6' 6"-- I'll eat said hat.

The combine is right around the corner and their will be no fudging of numbers after that. Every year most teams have some new large WR that is going to set the world on fire, he is going to be just unstoppable. But each year they come and go only to be replaced by the next unstoppable oversized WR. The 3-cone drill is the place that will expose them as having a chance to be the real deal or if he is a fraud. What is Miles Boykin? I have no idea at this moment, but after the combine most should have a very good idea.

Very good point. Consider the amount of WRs over 6'4 or even 6'5 and look at how many of them are successful the list is very small. Mike Evans, that's really about it. Most big WRs are in the 6'3 range. I think people get their head stuck in the clouds over big WRs, pretending they have a reasonable shot at being the next Calvin Johnson. The larger bodied receivers often end up being solid contributors instead of number 1 options. I feel like they already have that with MVS and St. Brown, and to a larger extent the potential to be a playmaker like Adams rests with Moore. We'll see but I really like what they did to address the future of WR last year.

On point claymaker. The Packers paid some dues last year with the rookie WR's and should benefit from it in the next few years. The needle is pointing up at the WR position.

Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: RT on February 28, 2019, 10:16:21 AM
I guess I can let the cat out of the bag.  I know Myles personally, I'm 6"3" 220lbs. and he is at least three inches taller than I am and a tat big more weightier and alot more muscular.

I tried attaching a picture, don't think he is 6'2" as you stated and he is closer to 250 at this time.

Here's the ND roster posts:

Miles Boykin | 81
WR | SR |  Notre Dame
Ht: 6040 | Wt: 225 | Upd: 12/29/2018
Hometown: Tinley Park, IL | High School: Providence Catholic

HONORS AND AWARDS

Citrus Bowl MVP (2018)
SENIOR SEASON (2018)

Led team during the regular season with 803 receiving yards on 54 catches and eight TDs
Had at least one TD catch in six straight games (STAN, VT, PITT, NAVY, NW, FSU), the longest such streak by an Irish WR since Will Fuller in 2014
Eclipsed 100 receiving yards in three games and had two games with multiple TD catches
Snared 11 receptions for 144 yards and a score against Stanford
Made a pair of TD catches among eight receptions for 117 yards at No. 24 Virginia Tech
Had four catches and two TD grabs against Navy

Not going to argue with this one.

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#NFLCombine key measurements thread…

146. #NotreDame WR Miles Boykin
Height: 6-3 6/8
Weight: 220
Hand: 9 7/8
Arm: 33 4/8
Wingspan: 81 3/8

So you say he is atleast 3 inches taller than you. And he is closer to 250? Are you 5'11" or 6'0"? And what other measurements have you been fudging about through the years? Wait, I don't want to know that. 
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: PackerJoe on March 05, 2019, 09:54:50 AM
Danno, So after the combine do you still want Lazard on our roster?
Title: Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
Post by: dannobanano on March 05, 2019, 04:19:59 PM
Danno, So after the combine do you still want Lazard on our roster?

Glad that you are friends with him. Kind of fun when you can make a claim like that.

Answer: No. I'll keep Lazard for now, thanks.

Lazard represents a different body type than Boykin, at an inch taller and several pounds heavier. IMO, Lazard would be used in a different capacity than Boykin, should Lazard even make the roster (hint: Lazard is a long shot, but you never know)

While Boykin had a fine Combine, he's basically the same size/speed as ESB, and a 14 lb bigger/slightly slower WR than MVS. Do we need more of same while the slot WR is vacant?

Not sure they will want to add another "same kind" of WR to the mix, but then...............I don't know anything that they may do in the draft this year. Does anyone?

Maybe Gute drafts Boykin in the 4th/5th and he's lights out. I'd be shocked, but never say never, I guess.