PC Forums

General Category => Green Bay Packers News Talk => Topic started by: packlaw on November 26, 2018, 05:01:05 AM

Title: What now...
Post by: packlaw on November 26, 2018, 05:01:05 AM
3% chance to make the playoffs if we run the table and lots of help. What now, planning for next year.  Who do we keep and what do we need.  This team needs to rebuild with out a doubt.  On offense, Cobb and Allison are liabilities, Graham is a bust and we need two new guards, youth at tackle and a backup center.  On defense, goodbye to Perry, Mathews and Williams. We need an veteran safety to go along with our younger safeties.  A pass rusher is a must.  We have draft picks; but a few good free agents is a necessity at pass rusher and safety.  Chicago is the model for bold and smart free agent moves.  The Rams, New Orleans, Kansas City are the offensive models.  They have rushers and good quarterbacks.  So do we; but they are in tune with the new NFL and we are stuck in another era of West Coast offense and offshoot.  Sadly, we need a new head coach because McCarthy will not change his ways and will not hire the new breed of OC nor give him the authority to change the system.  So what are the pluses.  Rogers, Jones, Adams and young, tall, fast wide receivers with a year under their belt.  A good defensive line, good young corners as long as they stay healthy, a kicker and a good punter.  Special teams need an upgrade; but the draft can handle that.  If these changes are implemented, there will be a new enthusiasm by the players which is not present now.  Hopefully, it will reinvigorate Rogers to his previous level.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: The GM on November 26, 2018, 08:23:46 AM
One step at a time.  First things first, another special teams F'up last night with Williams and the punt.  Zook should be looking for a job this morning.  JMO.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: Bignutz on November 26, 2018, 11:56:58 AM
Time for a new head coach.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: Gregg on November 26, 2018, 12:36:34 PM
I also think that MM should be gone at the end of year.

AR is just playing like his heart is not in it. 

On defense, I have always thought that we should play a 4-3.  And I really think we could do that if we drafted correctly in the first round.

I think our secondary is good enough, maybe better than that. We just need a better pass rush.

On offense, I don't think we are that far away.  I think one of our young guys will turn out to be a good number two.  Our OL might need an upgrade at RG. And a better back up than Spriggs at tackle.

But in addition to the extra draft picks we have, if we let go of Cobb, Perry and CM 3, we will have some money to bring in FA's. 

I do not think this is a bottom up overhaul.  As long as we have AR, Adams, and Jones on offense, we are respectable.  On defense, we have Clark, Daniels, Wilkerson, Lowry and a good young secondary.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: IBV on November 26, 2018, 01:00:02 PM
Well , not that Gutey would ever listen to me but if he did , this is what I would tell him , first of all , MM has to go , next , at the Draft , with our first pick ( might be top 12 ) go get an edge rusher , with NO's pick , go get a safety , ang with our pick in the second Rd. , go get a Guard .
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: Gregg on November 26, 2018, 01:20:32 PM
Call him and let me know what he says.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: dannobanano on November 26, 2018, 01:24:07 PM
I also think that MM should be gone at the end of year.

AR is just playing like his heart is not in it. 

On defense, I have always thought that we should play a 4-3.  And I really think we could do that if we drafted correctly in the first round.

I think our secondary is good enough, maybe better than that. We just need a better pass rush.

On offense, I don't think we are that far away.  I think one of our young guys will turn out to be a good number two.  Our OL might need an upgrade at RG. And a better back up than Spriggs at tackle.

But in addition to the extra draft picks we have, if we let go of Cobb, Perry and CM 3, we will have some money to bring in FA's. 

I do not think this is a bottom up overhaul.  As long as we have AR, Adams, and Jones on offense, we are respectable.  On defense, we have Clark, Daniels, Wilkerson, Lowry and a good young secondary.

I think that might take a big overhaul, and might take more than one draft. But you might get a good start on building a solid 4-3 if it went something like this.

Lowry isn't best suited as a 4-3 DE, so I don't know if he stays or goes. Looney would be a good fit. Daniels, Clark, Adams can all play interior DL in a 4-3. Would Lancaster be good enough? Or Simon?

I think it would take signing a 4-3 DE in free agency, and then drafting 2 of them in the draft. Or, maybe if Perry stays, he gets used at his more natural position?

Martinez and Toomer could play ILB, Burks and Fackrell could play weakside/cover OLB, strongside LB is a question mark in my mind.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: ricky on November 26, 2018, 01:28:08 PM
Here is an interesting take on what needs to be done. Though the list of players the tweeter suggests could be cut seems overly harsh. Especially Crosby. This off-season will tell us a lot about where the power lies in this organizaiton. Major changes, and Gutekunst has a free hand to reshape the team. Incremental changes and second tier FA's to plug perceived gaps? Then Gutekunst has lost the power struggle. The most important take, though, is the willingness of Rodgers to put up with major changes. He doesn't seem at all happy this year, and if next year sees a major overhaul, will he be on board, or go overboard? Stay tuned.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/thats-all-folks-the-packers-2018-post-mortem-120
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: Gregg on November 26, 2018, 02:01:18 PM
I think this guy is right overall.

We have to be willing to make the tough decisions.  I would even go further than he does in some respects.  I would be willing to release Cobb, and CM 3.  If we went to a 4-3 then Perry might fit in at DE. 

But the point is, with that much money on the table and with the extra draft picks, if we pick correctly its not a major overhaul.  There is a really good piece on the Rams 2017 draft at SI MMQB and how Snead, Phillips, and McVay hit on five draft picks without a number one and how they all fit in to the team concept they had.

From what I can see, we have an extra fourth and first to do the work, plus what we can sign by cutting some slack.  I don't see that as a major overhaul.  As this team has some good elements to it on both offense and defense.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: craig on November 26, 2018, 02:01:49 PM
I know it's heresy, and it was only 8 drafts ago that we went offense in round 1 (the great Sherrod). 

But I wonder if this might not be the year to use one or even both first round picks on offense? 

The pass rush seems very problematic, for sure.   

But to me it seems like the passing game isn't good enough to be competitive for now. 

Somehow the passing game needs to improve if the Packers hope to get back to the playoffs. 
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: packlaw on November 26, 2018, 02:33:56 PM
Ricky if you are referring to me as the twitter, you read my post incorrectly.  I indicated Cosby and the punter were pluses.  I indicated the special team makeup needs an overhaul. 
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: ramrod on November 26, 2018, 02:41:53 PM
I would hope for at least one splash signing. Either Collins (if he isn't tagged) or a trade for Chandler Jones. (should take a 4rth)
Also we need a slot guy. Don't know if or not Kummerow is that guy, or not.
So safety, edge rusher, guard, right tackle, and maybe a defensive end.
Some of that cap money will go to extending Martinez and Clark. But we should still be able to get at least two quality starters in free agency. The rest will be draft picks. And if you are lucky to find that d I amond in the rough off the street.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: WTX_Cheese on November 26, 2018, 02:51:40 PM
I don't think of MM as a "bad" coach, but I DO think of him as a stubborn one. I think it's time to part ways. We really need a new offensive mind that can keep up with the rest of league.

Offense: The OL, while productive in the run this season, makes me nervous. We really haven't gotten much out of Spriggs, Murphy, Bell or McCray (not to mention Cole Madison from this year) and Bulaga has a hard time staying healthy. I feel more confident at RB and WR as we have plenty of good, young talent there. I'm not sure what to make of TE. Lots of free agents, no substantial production.

Defense: Pass rushers, pass rushers, pass rushers. Every year I hope for substantial investments in pass rushers and every year, I'm left scratching my head. I am still a believer in Clay Matthews but he's rarely ever had a good complement aside from one good year from Perry and a couple of good years with a part-time Peppers. I wouldn't bat an eye if we made a pair of early round investments here. I feel pretty good about the DL but feel like we may need a better veteran presence somewhere in the defensive backfield.

I think if we get a fresh prospective on offense, that will help revitalize Rodgers, then start replenishing a mediocre roster, we will be talking about playoff runs in late 2019 and into 2020.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: ricky on November 26, 2018, 04:21:48 PM
My wife forwarded this article to me, so here it is. Provocative, to say the least. Starts out pretty straight forward, then veers into conspiracy, then goes completely off the rails. The "Rodgers is tanking" idea isn't original, but certainly is interesting. Anyone know if Mulder and Scully are available for consultation?

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/11/26/18112156/green-bay-packers-minnesota-vikings-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: phanatic1 on November 26, 2018, 04:39:17 PM
Here is an interesting take on what needs to be done. Though the list of players the tweeter suggests could be cut seems overly harsh. Especially Crosby. This off-season will tell us a lot about where the power lies in this organizaiton. Major changes, and Gutekunst has a free hand to reshape the team. Incremental changes and second tier FA's to plug perceived gaps? Then Gutekunst has lost the power struggle. The most important take, though, is the willingness of Rodgers to put up with major changes. He doesn't seem at all happy this year, and if next year sees a major overhaul, will he be on board, or go overboard? Stay tuned.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/thats-all-folks-the-packers-2018-post-mortem-120

I am pretty much on board with the cuts listed - except, I think Crosby stays and Matthews is added to the list.  I can live with Lane Taylor, he is an average G, a middle of the pack LG in the league.  But, if you cut Bulaga, and it is time I think to do that, cutting Taylor really puts the OL in total rebuild mode.  A RG is already needed, so to replace 3 OL is a lot. 

Defensively, no doubt, an edge rusher and a safety are musts.  Another DL added to Clark and Daniels would also be a nice addition, but not necessarily a need. 

Coaching - well, unless this team gets into the playoffs and wins a game there, I think the need for a new staff has to happen.  The message of MM sure seems to have grown old on this team and a move is needed to inject new energy into the team. 

Summarizing - Needs on offense - in order of importance - LT, LG, TE.  Defense - OLB, S, DL. 

The cupboard is not bare, but the overall talent level has declined.  The misses of 2015 haunts this team and the philosophy of draft and develop by TT can not be carried over by Gute.  It is time to move into the 21st century of free agent football and stop the non-sense of hoping un-drafted free agents can step in an play instead of known commodities.  In order to return to a Super Bowl in the next 2-3 years, Gute is going to have to take some shots in free agency. 
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: dannobanano on November 26, 2018, 05:13:11 PM
Here is an interesting take on what needs to be done. Though the list of players the tweeter suggests could be cut seems overly harsh. Especially Crosby. This off-season will tell us a lot about where the power lies in this organizaiton. Major changes, and Gutekunst has a free hand to reshape the team. Incremental changes and second tier FA's to plug perceived gaps? Then Gutekunst has lost the power struggle. The most important take, though, is the willingness of Rodgers to put up with major changes. He doesn't seem at all happy this year, and if next year sees a major overhaul, will he be on board, or go overboard? Stay tuned.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/thats-all-folks-the-packers-2018-post-mortem-120

I am pretty much on board with the cuts listed - except, I think Crosby stays and Matthews is added to the list.  I can live with Lane Taylor, he is an average G, a middle of the pack LG in the league.  But, if you cut Bulaga, and it is time I think to do that, cutting Taylor really puts the OL in total rebuild mode.  A RG is already needed, so to replace 3 OL is a lot. 

Defensively, no doubt, an edge rusher and a safety are musts.  Another DL added to Clark and Daniels would also be a nice addition, but not necessarily a need. It's absolutely a need, because Clark, Daniels, and Lowry are all UFA in 2020.

Coaching - well, unless this team gets into the playoffs and wins a game there, I think the need for a new staff has to happen.  The message of MM sure seems to have grown old on this team and a move is needed to inject new energy into the team. 

Summarizing - Needs on offense - in order of importance - LT, LG, TE.  Defense - OLB, S, DL. 

The cupboard is not bare, but the overall talent level has declined.  The misses of 2015 haunts this team and the philosophy of draft and develop by TT can not be carried over by Gute.  It is time to move into the 21st century of free agent football and stop the non-sense of hoping un-drafted free agents can step in an play instead of known commodities.  In order to return to a Super Bowl in the next 2-3 years, Gute is going to have to take some shots in free agency.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: ricky on November 26, 2018, 05:36:06 PM
Ricky if you are referring to me as the twitter, you read my post incorrectly.  I indicated Cosby and the punter were pluses.  I indicated the special team makeup needs an overhaul.

Not at all. The author of the article included a tweet from someone that had a list of players currently on the Packers and how much could be saved by cutting them. Crosby was on the list at a "savings" of about $3.4 million. But then you don't have a very reliable kicker.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: SET4YRS on November 26, 2018, 06:11:19 PM
 I don't agree with cutting that list, you clear all that cap space and have no team? No way to replace all those players with better options in free agency and we don't have limitless draft picks. Some of those could be traded instead of cut also. Gute will make some moves to clear more cap space and have plenty to go after a few big free agents. Free agency looks good right now, but that will change a bit when teams start extending their own players.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: LMG on November 26, 2018, 07:09:48 PM
Firing the coach is an easy answer isn't it?


I really have been disconnected in following the Packers mainly because of the nfl. That however is another story.

Last night I watched out of more curiosity than anyhing and was really miffed and not knowing hardly any DB player names. Then all the injuries!!

Wow that's all on the HC isn't it?

How about calling out the guy that GETS the players for the HC and his assitants to work with?

Fickle fans...even Packer fans!!

Title: Re: What now...
Post by: Gregg on November 27, 2018, 09:48:53 AM
Chicago showed this year what you can accomplish something with a change in coach and being aggressive in the player mart.  It looks like they will take the division with GB possibly in third.

The way I look at MM is this: the guy is supposed to be a fine OC, QB coach.  In 13 years he had two HOF quarterbacks. Teams would kill to have a HOF quarterback. He had two.  But I would actually go beyond that.  If you look at the 26 modern QB's in the HOF today, Favre and AR would be better than half of them.  In fact, if I had to choose the top 15 quarterbacks in history, those two would be there.

What did MM do in 13 years with two all time great QB's? He won one SB. And how long ago was that?

Compare that with what BB has done with Brady.  Or what SF did with Young and Montana. Or what Dallas did with Aikman.


Title: Re: What now...
Post by: PackerJoe on November 29, 2018, 11:47:18 AM
As for DL, let's see how adams pans out.  Wilkerson is pretty good, but if ND's DT (Tulley is out there in with our 2nd or 3rd pick), then pull the plug.  Speed kills as does passion!!!!

Last year was a good year for QB's, this year so so.  It is time to get a replacement for Rodgers as last year will be his last here!  We've held on too long and haven't built around him properly!!!!!!  Great athlete and player, upper management failed him!!!!!!!!  Let's get what we can in a trade.  Denver or Oakland might give us a few decent picks!
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: RT on November 29, 2018, 12:18:13 PM
As for DL, let's see how adams pans out.  Wilkerson is pretty good, but if ND's DT (Tulley is out there in with our 2nd or 3rd pick), then pull the plug.  Speed kills as does passion!!!!

Last year was a good year for QB's, this year so so.  It is time to get a replacement for Rodgers as last year will be his last here!  We've held on too long and haven't built around him properly!!!!!!  Great athlete and player, upper management failed him!!!!!!!!  Let's get what we can in a trade.  Denver or Oakland might give us a few decent picks!


You have mentioned trading Rodgers in two different postings today, but their is zero chance he is traded for at the least 3 more years. He could of been traded last off season, but after he signed his new deal this summer the Packers have to live with him.


Dead cap money by year for Rodgers,


2018 - 80,300,000.00

2019 - 59,400,000.00

2020 - 34,500,000.00

2021 - 23,000,000.00

First real potential out of Rodgers contract is 2022 with a hit of 11,500,000.00

Their will be no parting of ways with Aaron Rodgers for awhile.
 
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: Gregg on November 29, 2018, 03:29:33 PM
I am not for trading AR either.

If that was even thinkable at all, it would have been last year before he signed. 

AR is still one of the top five QBs in the NFL. He just needs a new coach, bolder ideas,  and maybe one or two players on offense to recharge him.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: RT on May 23, 2019, 03:23:56 PM
Well , not that Gutey would ever listen to me but if he did , this is what I would tell him , first of all , MM has to go , next , at the Draft , with our first pick ( might be top 12 ) go get an edge rusher , with NO's pick , go get a safety , ang with our pick in the second Rd. , go get a Guard .

Just wanted to point out this post from November.

That is all.
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: ricky on May 23, 2019, 03:51:00 PM
Well , not that Gutey would ever listen to me but if he did , this is what I would tell him , first of all , MM has to go , next , at the Draft , with our first pick ( might be top 12 ) go get an edge rusher , with NO's pick , go get a safety , ang with our pick in the second Rd. , go get a Guard .

Just wanted to point out this post from November.

That is all.

So, Gutey does take advise from fan boards?  ;D
Title: Re: What now...
Post by: dannobanano on May 23, 2019, 06:58:54 PM
DUDE!!!

IBV is really...………….

Nostradamus!