May 25, 2019, 02:38:30 AM

Recent Posts

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There will be lot of factors as to whether Gary becomes a force in the game. Smith has to coach him to get better. Pettine has to design schemes to help Gary succeed. The other players on defense have to successfully fulfill their assignments. He has to stay healthy. He has to want to become a great player. He can't let big money spoil his desire. But this is a slow part of the off-season. For right now, hearing the praise for Gary is encouraging. What are your (as a poster) expectations for Gary and the Packers defense overall this season?
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Green Bay Packers News Talk / Re: Position look: WR
« Last post by dannobanano on May 24, 2019, 12:38:05 PM »
#1) All receivers (WR and TE) are expected to learn the formations first.
#2) All receivers are then expected to learn the route tree off of each formation.

A couple examples of what to expect:

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/film-study-lafleurs-play-action-rollout-419

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/film-study-lafleurs-playbook-swing-pass-207


And just a footnote on Trevor Davis.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/no-receivers-seat-is-hotter-than-trevor-davis-711

here's another installation on what to look for in MLF's passing game.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/film-study-lafleurs-playbook-slantflat-138
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Green Bay Packers News Talk / Re: Position look: OL
« Last post by craig on May 24, 2019, 09:31:59 AM »
Injuries abound, so while I hope it doesn't happen, it's more probably than not that at least one of your main 13 guys will be hurt, and a good chance >1. 

Backup OL aren't usually ST stars.  So they are at some disadvantage winning last spots against ST candidates.  That said, I'd rather compromise on ST than risk a rising young lineman who might become a solid starter in a year or two. 

Bulaga is worn and expiring.  Taylor's contract is also at issue following this season.  So there's a chance that one or both might be replaced for 2020 and beyond.  So I'm really prioritized on depth OL who *MIGHT* have potential to develop into good, solid starters. 

I'm no scout, but I don't see Pankey, Patrick, or McCray as guys we'll want starting from 2020 to 2023 or whatever. 

So my preference (all wishing and hoping, no basis for actually expecting this) is that all three of Light, Madison, and Nijman look absolutely impressive in camp.  So good that they look like very viable potential starters, in a post-Bulaga/Taylor 2020 roster.  So good that you can't even risk exposing them to practice squad. 

Of course that isn't very likely, but position groups that end up being really good, and rosters than end up being SB contenders, often have developmental guys develop well and become good players, against the odds. 

I'm actually quite curious and interested in Light.  I assume with a year of experience and strength, that he's probably going to be ahead of Madison or Nijman. 

I also assume that practice squad is available for all three of those young guys.  **IF** they look so good that you don't want to risk them, and think they might get snagged, then keep them 53.  But otherwise PS seems like a very appropriate place to stash developmental lineman who aren't going to play at all barring injury, and who aren't going to be ST and 45-man active anyway.  **IF** injuries necessitate, a guy can be called up from PS as needed. 

So being an optimist and a hope guy, I'm really curious and hoping that those three young unknown guys will look good and be on their way to being good NFL players that may be good starters someday, or very capable subs if not. 

The Bulaga/Taylor status I think also makes Spriggs a question.  I've kinda felt like he lost the speed/quickness that he was drafted for in order to gain the size and strength that he needed.  So I'm hesitant to believe he's likely to be a very good Bulaga replacement for 2020.  But I'm no scout and know nothing.  **IF** he could look better and better, both as a next-man-up injury-replacement-option this year, but then as a perfectly-fine Bulaga-replacement starter at RT for 2020, that would be really wonderful.  I hope he looks really good in camp and looks like he's really ready to be a good starter, whenever opportunity opens that possibility for him. 
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NFL Talk / Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Last post by raptorman on May 24, 2019, 09:14:35 AM »
I think we are forgetting that Cousins deal is completely guaranteed for its entire length.

I am pretty sure it was the first of its kind.

There is no getting out of it and no adjusting it.

At the time I did not think its was wise.  Because in my view, the Vikes were a defensive team.  They won and lost on D.  Cousins was going to ding that defense--he already has, in that they lost a starting DT.

But we will see.
So Rodgers had $98 million guaranteed in his latest contract. How is that any less of stretch?   Lost a starting DT?  Who? Richardson?  He was signed to a one year deal.  They brought back Stephenson.  So exactly who did they lose?
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Hadn't seen the Devin Bush quote before.  Speaks well when a teammate recognizes Gary like that.  The Harbaugh comment, as has been so much a thing with Gary, Harbaugh doesn't refer to football-playing skills or quickness, more the combine-king-type size/speed. 

Many pass-rushers have been quick/fast, but weren't good versus run.  KGB.  Fackrell isn't a strong run-defender.  Matthews increasingly sold out at times in hopes of generating some pass rush, and became run-vulnerable.  Gary's size prevents that.

It's really safe that Gary is plenty strong enough to be an **excellent** set-the-edge run defender.  He's got a chance to be as good or even better than healthy Perry in that regard.  The bigger question is where he'll be on the average-good-excellent-great continuum in terms of pass-rush.   

Smith's size/speed comments speaks to the possibility of become a dual run/pressure stud.  Down the line we may look back with thanks and say "Wow, how wise the Packers were to not let one fluky low-sacks, double-teamed, injury-impacted season mislead them into missing what a stud he could become." 

I hope he answers positively, but my curiosity is how good he'll become in the pass rush.  He's combine fast, for his size.  But is he game fast/quick/explosive, compared to the quick sack artists in the league?  There are definitiely sack artists whose 40-time and 3-cone won't match Gary's, even without being as big and strong as he is.  And many of combine kings over the years who have not come excellent pass rushers despite impressive combine numbers and 3-cones.  So I think we all understand that combine measurables are at best very imperfect predictors of pass-rushing success.  We'll hope he turns out to be one of the combine-kings who had both the measurables and also the game quickness. 

Combine measure straight, predictable runs.  Even 3-cone, you know exactly where the cones are, and you have several seconds to know where the next one is, you know exactly where it is and which way you'll need to turn, and you've had months to practice how and when to manage your momentum and steps and how to redirect.  Real pass rush has components of that for sure; short acceleration, quick re-direction of momentum.  But so much of real game speed is not necessarily the physical capacity to accelerate, decelerate, and redirect, but is instead the mental processing.  A pass rusher is reading the blocker, where is he leaning, where is he vulnerable, where is his balance vulnerable; and the good ones mentally process all that at mega-mental-speed.  The combine has no way to measure that, how quickly a guy can read a situation and decide when to accelerate, decelerate, fake, bull, spin.  All that decision-making happens so quickly. 

I think we're pretty safe that Gary will be a nice run-stop, set-the-edge guy who gets some effort-based sacks.  If the worst-case when healthy is that he's kind of like the healthy version of Perry, even if he's never a dynamic pass-rusher, that wouldn't be a bad outcome for a #12 pick.  But certainly there's the possibility to be a big game-changer within the pass-rush game.  Hope it happens, and happens quickly while perhaps Rodgers still has at least a chance to compete at high level. 

My other question on Gary is where he'll settle in position-wise once he's in the heart of his career.  Will he end up being largely a stand-up, edge-rushing OLB? Running the arc a lot, folding in the pocket, forcing QB's to step up into the pocket only to be enveloped by our inside guys?  Or will Gary perhaps end up being not that often used as an edge rusher, but more often used as a hand-down lineman deforming the front of the pocket?

Lots of physical capacity there, will be really interesting to watch his first-contract career develop. 
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Green Bay Packers News Talk / Re: Position look: OL
« Last post by RT on May 24, 2019, 04:55:03 AM »
Hoping the Milwaukee Bucks can win one more in Toronto so we get one more round of Bakhtiari beer chugging. Yelich gets an attaboy for a rookie effort, now as for Rodgers that was just straight up weak. Wimpy, Wimpy, Wimpy! 
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NFL Talk / Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Last post by RT on May 24, 2019, 04:47:33 AM »
I think we are forgetting that Cousins deal is completely guaranteed for its entire length.

I am pretty sure it was the first of its kind.

There is no getting out of it and no adjusting it.

At the time I did not think its was wise.  Because in my view, the Vikes were a defensive team.  They won and lost on D.  Cousins was going to ding that defense--he already has, in that they lost a starting DT.

But we will see.

The guaranteed money is a non-factor unless he had a career ending injury early in the contract, the contract ends in 2020. The guaranteed clause is now meaningless.
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So, if Smith is saying this stuff this autumn, then great.  Right now, it means little.

Brother Gregg, that is the case with every single rookie that has ever existed. I guess there is no need to talk about any of them until they produce game time in the NFL.

Yet here we are in a football forum talking about players and prospects for 2019. Go figure.

Mike Smith played LB and coached in college and the NFL. He could have talked about any of the Packers LB's. What he did do was praise Blake Martinez' intelligence and work ethic...
And then Mike Smith said:

“It’s unbelievable! A guy that size and that speed and that athleticism, I’ve never seen it, and I’ve been in the league for 11 years. You can do a lot of things with him. In Kansas City, we had Dee Ford, he’s smaller, great get off. Justin Houston, who is a big strong guy. Get a guy like Gary, he’s both of them.”.

“I knew we had a chance. I honestly didn’t think he was going to go at 12. I thought he was going to go way before then, based on how I evaluated him. I’ll throw it out there, I thought he was best in college football at outside linebacker. I had him No. 1, because I believe in that, and I believe in him..."


Take it for what its worth, I think it was note worthy and fitting for discussion in a football discussion forum.

As for his previous production at Michigan.

Jim Harbaugh has seen the game as a collegiant and professional player, as a professional  assisstant and head coach scouting prospects. And as a highly successful college coach.

Here is what Harbaugh had to say about Rashan Gary just before the draft:

“I see people trying to put out a negative thing about a player. Rashan Gary runs in the 4.5’s, he’s 280 pounds. He’s going to get drafted in the top 10. These people that are trying to kid themselves that he’s not, it’s comical to me. They’re trying to get someone to not pick him in the top 10 so he could fall. There’s some people out there who would love to see him get into the 20s so they can get him. It’s fairly transparent.

“And the way pro teams go about it is that. They try the ‘I don’t know, I wouldn’t take him there or here.’ Watch on draft day. He’ll get taken in that spot.”


Take it for what its worth, I think it was note worthy and fitting for discussion in a football discussion forum.

His teammate Devin Bush, taken by the Steelers as a top 10 pick, said before and after the draft that he couldn't believe anyone would pick him before his teammate Rashan Gary. He said he sure wouldn't...

Take it for what its worth, I think it was note worthy and fitting for discussion in a football discussion forum.

As I responded to brother GM's similar sentiments earlier in this thread.

"WE All want to see it manifest on game day, but since it is the off-season and this is a football forum it seems likely there will be discussion threads like this."
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No one ever said that Gary did not look good on the practice field.

In fact, everyone said that.

The critique of Gary is that he did not produce like that in games.

So, if Smith is saying this stuff this autumn, then great.  Right now, it means little.
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NFL Talk / Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Last post by Gregg on May 24, 2019, 01:13:20 AM »
I think we are forgetting that Cousins deal is completely guaranteed for its entire length.

I am pretty sure it was the first of its kind.

There is no getting out of it and no adjusting it.

At the time I did not think its was wise.  Because in my view, the Vikes were a defensive team.  They won and lost on D.  Cousins was going to ding that defense--he already has, in that they lost a starting DT.

But we will see. 

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