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General Category => NFL Talk => Free Agency => Topic started by: mancl on March 09, 2017, 09:44:47 AM

Title: Conner Barwin
Post by: mancl on March 09, 2017, 09:44:47 AM
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017/3/9/14868596/nfl-free-agency-eagles-release-de-olb-connor-barwin-should-packers-call

He wouldn't cost TT a comp pick and sounds as if he should be available for about what they would have to pay for Jones and Peppers
If you added  him to the mix then getting a pass rusher out of the draft is a lower priority.  They could get a DB with the lst and get a good tight end with the second
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Leader on March 09, 2017, 01:27:10 PM
Interesting. Cant say I've seen a bunch of the guy but he was a force in a few games. He'll be 31 come October.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Hands on March 10, 2017, 01:23:56 PM
There seems to have been some contact between the Pack and Barwin.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Lodestar on March 10, 2017, 01:34:47 PM
Not getting my hopes up, but Barwin would be a terrific addition to the team. Very solid all-around player and a great locker room guy.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: ThatGuy284 on March 10, 2017, 01:41:51 PM
Barwin would be a great signing.   

Unless we don't sign him - then he is a worthless bum, overrated, too expensive and hates puppies
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: SSG on March 10, 2017, 02:02:34 PM
Barwin would be a great signing.   

Unless we don't sign him - then he is a worthless bum, overrated, too expensive and hates puppies

haha, this made me laugh because it is all too true!
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Gregg on March 11, 2017, 12:54:44 AM
He has been allegedly contacted by TT.

The more I look at this guy, the more interesting he gets.  He is comparable in size to Peppers, at 6' 5" and 265 lbs.  And I think he is faster than Peppers.

Plus he can play with his hand on the ground.

I still think we should draft an OLB, but he would be a good guy to learn behind.

I mean, Perry, CM 3, Ryan/Thomas  and then Barwin would be a good LB set.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on March 11, 2017, 03:02:18 AM
Don't forget 6'5", 245lb Kyler Fackrell, ready to make a year 2 jump.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 03:50:03 AM
Don't forget 6'5", 245lb Kyler Fackrell, ready to make a year 2 jump.

I'd be more excited about him if he weren't 26
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Pugger on March 11, 2017, 05:02:53 AM
With Peppers back in Carolina it would be nice to get another veteran presence in the locker room.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on March 11, 2017, 05:36:35 AM
But his age is probably a significant part of why he was available with the 88th pick. I don't like him more or less because of his age, I'd just like him to make a big 2nd year jump.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Twain on March 11, 2017, 05:45:45 AM
But his age is probably a significant part of why he was available with the 88th pick. I don't like him more or less because of his age, I'd just like him to make a big 2nd year jump.

Correct.  If he makes a big jump, surprising everyone and ends up all pro no one will be talking about his age.  It is about what he will bring in 2017, not 2027.

That being said, I would love Barwin in Green Bay if he can be had for a reasonable deal.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on March 11, 2017, 05:57:47 AM
Perhaps the biggest benefit of getting Barwin is that round one (or just possibly round 2) of the draft would not almost have to be a pass rusher.

I used to think that rounds 1,2,3 of the draft were likely to be pass rusher, corner, tight end, in some order. If Barwin was signed, to go with TE Bennett, those first three rounds are much harder to predict. Then it would probably be cornerback, ?, ?. The Packers might still go OLB/CB/TE, even with the additions, but it gives them options to go somewhere else, like WR, RB, ILB, DE.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Twain on March 11, 2017, 06:00:40 AM
Perhaps the biggest benefit of getting Barwin is that round one (or just possibly round 2) of the draft would not almost have to be a pass rusher.

I used to think that rounds 1,2,3 of the draft were likely to be pass rusher, corner, tight end, in some order. If Barwin was signed, to go with TE Bennett, those first three rounds are much harder to predict. Then it would probably be cornerback, ?, ?. The Packers might still go OLB/CB/TE, even with the additions, but it gives them options to go somewhere else, like WR, RB, ILB, DE.

Agree 100%.

It would allow you to go with true best player available and not draft for need.

Being able to go best player available is a huge advantage- that is how we got guys like Aaron Rodgers and Jordy Nelson.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: SSGCujo on March 11, 2017, 06:05:33 AM
 Barwin would be a good fit in GB. It comes down to cash. Is he looking to strike it big? If he's looking for a good chance to get a ring, GB is the place. Plus, he needs to be in a 3/4, which fit him better than a 4/3.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 06:51:22 AM
Barwin would be a good fit in GB. It comes down to cash. Is he looking to strike it big? If he's looking for a good chance to get a ring, GB is the place. Plus, he needs to be in a 3/4, which fit him better than a 4/3.

We play 2-4-5 80% of the time.  Now, if his trouble with the 4-3 was lining up in a 3 point stance that's one thing.  But if he's another Fackrell who won't be able to set the edge in the 2-4-5 I'd be hesitant to pay him starter $. 
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 11, 2017, 07:16:23 AM
Barwin would be a good fit in GB. It comes down to cash. Is he looking to strike it big? If he's looking for a good chance to get a ring, GB is the place. Plus, he needs to be in a 3/4, which fit him better than a 4/3.

We play 2-4-5 80% of the time.  Now, if his trouble with the 4-3 was lining up in a 3 point stance that's one thing.  But if he's another Fackrell who won't be able to set the edge in the 2-4-5 I'd be hesitant to pay him starter $.

In his first 3 years at Philly, while they were running a 3-4, Barwin totaled 177 tackles/26.5 sacks/22 PDF/1 INT/4 FF
When they switched to a 4-3 his one season numbers were 34 tackles/5 sacks/2 PDF/ 1 FF

He's a true 3-4 Edge player.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 07:18:50 AM
I guess my question is: can he hold up in the running game when Dom plays nickel against the Cowboys and Redskins?  Is he an every down player for us, or is he a rotational guy who could come on for Datone Jones?
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Foundling on March 11, 2017, 07:20:58 AM
Don't forget 6'5", 245lb Kyler Fackrell, ready to make a year 2 jump.

I think that Barwin could be a good model/mentor for Fackrell. His path to success in this league is likely in becoming a player similar to Barwin.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: JPPlaya on March 11, 2017, 07:23:39 AM
Barwin would be a good fit in GB. It comes down to cash. Is he looking to strike it big? If he's looking for a good chance to get a ring, GB is the place. Plus, he needs to be in a 3/4, which fit him better than a 4/3.

We play 2-4-5 80% of the time.  Now, if his trouble with the 4-3 was lining up in a 3 point stance that's one thing.  But if he's another Fackrell who won't be able to set the edge in the 2-4-5 I'd be hesitant to pay him starter $.

2-4-5 is simply 3-4 Nickel. The concepts and techniques are 3-4 concepts. We just play in a "sub package" much more than the base.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 11, 2017, 07:24:45 AM
Barwin would be a good fit in GB. It comes down to cash. Is he looking to strike it big? If he's looking for a good chance to get a ring, GB is the place. Plus, he needs to be in a 3/4, which fit him better than a 4/3.

These could be the 2 biggest factors that bring him to GB.
He's made some good money from his Philly contract. A fair (but not cheap) contract could seal the deal (JMHO).
Plus, he's a great community minded man. Has done a lot of things for the city of Philadelphia. His team and community leadership would be big added pluses if he were to come to GB.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 11, 2017, 07:29:51 AM
I guess my question is: can he hold up in the running game when Dom plays nickel against the Cowboys and Redskins?  Is he an every down player for us, or is he a rotational guy who could come on for Datone Jones?

http://sjmagazine.net/june-2015/connor-barwin (http://sjmagazine.net/june-2015/connor-barwin)

Quote
signed with the Eagles as an unrestricted free agent prior to the 2013 season, Chip Kelly’s first as the head coach here. The Eagles were changing from a 4-3 defense – four down linemen and three linebackers – to a 3-4, and they needed a versatile linebacker who could play tough against the running game – setting the edge, is the football term – and who could drop back and cover receivers in the passing game and in the process rush the quarterback when called upon.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 07:33:11 AM
Barwin would be a good fit in GB. It comes down to cash. Is he looking to strike it big? If he's looking for a good chance to get a ring, GB is the place. Plus, he needs to be in a 3/4, which fit him better than a 4/3.

We play 2-4-5 80% of the time.  Now, if his trouble with the 4-3 was lining up in a 3 point stance that's one thing.  But if he's another Fackrell who won't be able to set the edge in the 2-4-5 I'd be hesitant to pay him starter $.

2-4-5 is simply 3-4 Nickel. The concepts and techniques are 3-4 concepts. We just play in a "sub package" much more than the base.

This is just wrong.  The 2-4-5 looks a hell of a lot more like a 4-3 defense than 3-4. 
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/MiamiHLOPS.png)

I've never been able to figure out how to insert an image properly, but this link shows what our 2-4-5 formation looks like. (Edit: Well, look here.  I did it!) Quite often we'll see the Elephant on the strong side line up in a 3 point stance.  The technique and responsibilities of an EDGE player in a 2-4-5 are essentially the same of 4-3 DE.


http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/defense-film-study-nfl/2014/11/29/packers-passing-preview-defending-high-low-opposite/ (http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/defense-film-study-nfl/2014/11/29/packers-passing-preview-defending-high-low-opposite/)
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 07:42:30 AM
I guess my question is: can he hold up in the running game when Dom plays nickel against the Cowboys and Redskins?  Is he an every down player for us, or is he a rotational guy who could come on for Datone Jones?

http://sjmagazine.net/june-2015/connor-barwin (http://sjmagazine.net/june-2015/connor-barwin)

Quote
signed with the Eagles as an unrestricted free agent prior to the 2013 season, Chip Kelly’s first as the head coach here. The Eagles were changing from a 4-3 defense – four down linemen and three linebackers – to a 3-4, and they needed a versatile linebacker who could play tough against the running game – setting the edge, is the football term – and who could drop back and cover receivers in the passing game and in the process rush the quarterback when called upon.

That answers it then! 
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Leader on March 11, 2017, 08:34:19 AM
I guess my question is: can he hold up in the running game when Dom plays nickel against the Cowboys and Redskins?  Is he an every down player for us, or is he a rotational guy who could come on for Datone Jones?

If I'm on the sideline and need to choose between sending Datone or Conner into the game - Barwin would get the nod. Simply because he's productive/disruptive. Too often, you've got to search the "intangibles" file to find Datone's contributions. Nothing against the guy (necessarily) and I'm not against bringing him back but I dont think he's given us a whole lot of on the field "bang" for a #1 pick.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Foundling on March 11, 2017, 08:37:42 AM
Barwin would be a good fit in GB. It comes down to cash. Is he looking to strike it big? If he's looking for a good chance to get a ring, GB is the place. Plus, he needs to be in a 3/4, which fit him better than a 4/3.

We play 2-4-5 80% of the time.  Now, if his trouble with the 4-3 was lining up in a 3 point stance that's one thing.  But if he's another Fackrell who won't be able to set the edge in the 2-4-5 I'd be hesitant to pay him starter $.

The Eagles likewise played a lot of nickel even when they were 3-4 base. Barwin was fine. The issue came in when he was supposed to play down end in a base 4-3.

But I do agree that they need to be prudent in how much money they give him. He should be paid like a role player pass rusher (~6-7M) rather than starter money (~10M).
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: JPPlaya on March 11, 2017, 08:42:43 AM
Barwin would be a good fit in GB. It comes down to cash. Is he looking to strike it big? If he's looking for a good chance to get a ring, GB is the place. Plus, he needs to be in a 3/4, which fit him better than a 4/3.

We play 2-4-5 80% of the time.  Now, if his trouble with the 4-3 was lining up in a 3 point stance that's one thing.  But if he's another Fackrell who won't be able to set the edge in the 2-4-5 I'd be hesitant to pay him starter $.

2-4-5 is simply 3-4 Nickel. The concepts and techniques are 3-4 concepts. We just play in a "sub package" much more than the base.

This is just wrong.  The 2-4-5 looks a hell of a lot more like a 4-3 defense than 3-4. 
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/MiamiHLOPS.png)

I've never been able to figure out how to insert an image properly, but this link shows what our 2-4-5 formation looks like. (Edit: Well, look here.  I did it!) Quite often we'll see the Elephant on the strong side line up in a 3 point stance.  The technique and responsibilities of an EDGE player in a 2-4-5 are essentially the same of 4-3 DE.


http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/defense-film-study-nfl/2014/11/29/packers-passing-preview-defending-high-low-opposite/ (http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/defense-film-study-nfl/2014/11/29/packers-passing-preview-defending-high-low-opposite/)

OK

This is NICKEL 3-4 DEFENSE.

The elephant position is somewhat unique to our defense, but defenses arent "cookie cutter". They dont say " Ok guys, we are a 3-4 team so at all times we need 3 defensive linemen, 4 linebackers and 4 defensive backs on the field at all times." They play in different roles.

What you are looking at here to over simplify it. are 3 down linemen, 3 LBs by position and 5 DBs (which is where NICKEL comes from). Now you see the DB at the bottom of the screen (29, I believe). He is a DB by position, but in this set he is functioning as a LB. We put him in that spot in order to get faster more athletic guys on the field and have better match ups.

Now we also run a version of this with our dime group. Where both guys on the edge are standing up, 2 down linemen. Then one LB in the middle and 6 DBs on the field.  Two of those DBs are in the slot and essentially functioning as LBs. This is a a little more like a 4-3, but again these arent cookie cutter defenses.

In Barwin's case, he would almost exclusively be asked to play with his hand up and out in space. Not with his hand down on the line. Perry and Jones if re-signed will probably play the elephant role this year. They are more of that DL/OLB Hybrid while Barwin and Clay are more of the true OLB role.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Foundling on March 11, 2017, 09:18:06 AM
I think maybe the confusion is that a 2-4-5 or even a 4-2-5 isn't really specifically "3-4 nickel" or "4-3 nickel." It's just nickel defense. Both schemes will employ those formations.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 09:38:08 AM
In Barwin's case, he would almost exclusively be asked to play with his hand up and out in space. Not with his hand down on the line. Perry and Jones if re-signed will probably play the elephant role this year. They are more of that DL/OLB Hybrid while Barwin and Clay are more of the true OLB role.

Can you tell me the difference in assignments that a OLB in a 2-4-5 and a DE in 4-3 nickel have? 

There is no difference. 

The only reason Dom's 2-4-5 nickel defense has survived vs. heavy fronts is by him playing larger Elephant players at the OLB position.  (Perry, D. Jones, Peppers.)  Smaller OLB's have struggled to find playing time because they can't hold up in the running game.  Matthews, Elliott, and Fackrell were liabilities in that capacity. 

The reason I asked the question was simple.  If Barwin struggled because he wasn't used to lining up in a 3 point stance that is something that he won't have to worry about in GB.  They can clearly do both - although lining up in the 2 point stance is much more common.  But, if he struggled in Philly's 4-3 defense because he was asked to set the edge vs. Tackles as a DE instead of setting the edge vs. a TE in a 3-4, those same struggles will follow him to GB because that's precisely what he'll be asked to do 80% of the time he's on the field. 

Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: SSG on March 11, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
I'd love to see Barwin in Green Bay for an affordable deal.  He's a strong, high energy player that is relentless in his pass rush.  I'm not sure how great he is at setting the edge in run defense but he'd more than replace Peppers as a pass rusher IMO.  Worst case, he's a huge upgrade over Fackrell who looked physically overwhelmed most of last year as he was getting tossed around by tackles like he was a 50 lb tackling dummy.

Right now, we're scary thin on the edge so any experienced depth will help.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: golfman on March 11, 2017, 10:16:04 AM
Everybody keeps selling Fackrell short like they did Ryan last offseason. Give the kid a year to get an NFL body. He showed some pass rush ability last year. Having said that I really do not want Barwin, but would rather TJ Watt be our target in round 1. Maybe his teammate too in round 4.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 10:20:12 AM
Everybody keeps selling Fackrell short like they did Ryan last offseason. Give the kid a year to get an NFL body. He showed some pass rush ability last year. Having said that I really do not want Barwin, but would rather TJ Watt be our target in round 1. Maybe his teammate too in round 4.

It would be one thing if Fackrell were 22. I'd be excited about his future.  But at 26 how much more weight and strength is he going to gain?

I think he's miscast as an edge player in our system.  He should be a strong-side linebacker in a 4-3 or a SAM in a 4-3 under. 
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: golfman on March 11, 2017, 10:32:20 AM
I think he can get a lot stronger. He's never had an NFL off season of conditioning.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Lodestar on March 11, 2017, 10:49:04 AM
Every time I see this thread I'm getting my hopes up. I want Barwin.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: craig on March 11, 2017, 10:53:07 AM
Good question on Fackrell.  Not many guys dramatically reconfigure their bodies at age 26.  Super common to be filling out significantly at 21-22, less so at 25-26.  Maybe he'll be able to do so somewhat.  All of the colleges are huge into that too, but not to the level of the NFL.  And lets face it, there are also probably a lot more PED's and stuff in NFL circulation, so he's got that opportunity too. 

Hopefully he improves and emerges dramatically and becomes a much-improved guy.  Even assuming he doesn't get all that much stronger, he might still get better at doing what he does, skills-wise, rushing the passer. 

For Barney, even if you sign him, I don't think you'd be wised to expect him to be a 3-down guy.  If he doesn't set the edge the greatest versus the run, most downs you're not expecting run anyway; he'd not be getting wasted ever running play anyway; and if they want to run on 2nd-and-8 or 3rd-and-6, that's probably a good thing. 

Plus, even if the other edge guy isn't setting a great edge, shouldn't be a lot easier if Perry is strongly setting one edge and the LBers and safeties know it's really only the other edge that they need to be watching, in terms of outside runs? 

Aren't going to be many every-down-guys in our defensive front.  Barwin wouldn't need to be, and Fackrell doesn't need to be either. 
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: SSG on March 11, 2017, 10:55:24 AM
Everybody keeps selling Fackrell short like they did Ryan last offseason. Give the kid a year to get an NFL body. He showed some pass rush ability last year. Having said that I really do not want Barwin, but would rather TJ Watt be our target in round 1. Maybe his teammate too in round 4.


Ryan plays a different position though so its hard to compare.  Ryan didn't have MAJOR physical limitations that held him back as a rookie.  Ryan also wasn't the age of players going on their second contract.  How many of those guys completely change their bodies at the age of 26?  Ryan wasn't physically overwhelmed.  Fackrell was dominated damn near every time a tackle got their hands on him and it was because of a clear lack of strength.  He came into the league with the upper body strength that was a lot closer to that of a DB than an 3-4 Edge guy (15 reps on the bench.  Randall and Rollins both had 14). Without looking, i'd imagine there wasn't an 3-4 OLB in last year's class that was as limited when it came to upper body strength.  Unless he puts on 20-30 lbs of muscle I don't ever seem him developing the strength needed to be a 3 down player in our scheme.  You don't often see tackles throw players around like tackles did Fackrell last year.  Trent Williams must have thrown him 7 yards in the air against Washington in a blooper he'll see for the rest of his NFL career.

Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 11, 2017, 11:05:04 AM
Really a lot of dumping on Fackerll around here.
I think he was "swimming" last year, coming from a smaller grade program (Utah St.) into the NFL. I'm hopeful he has a stronger grasp of the defense this year, and that it will pay dividends.
 
Do I think he's the next Julius Peppers? No!
Do I think he will be noticably improved over last year? Yes!

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/kyler-fackrell?id=2555340 (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/kyler-fackrell?id=2555340)

Quote
DRAFT ANALYSIS:
"He is very loose and bendy to wrap around blocks and pursue from the back side. He's versatile in the passing game. He can run and mirror tight ends and he's an explosive blitzer. Overall, this is a very athletic edge defender with the ability to make plays on all three downs." -- Daniel Jeremiah

BOTTOM LINE When it comes to the length and athleticism teams will look for off the edge, Fackrell will be one of the poster boys. His field versatility, coverage talent and potential as a pass rusher could make him one of the fastest rising prospects in this draft and a future contender for a Pro Bowl nod. - Lance Zierlein

I also think that because of his last year's performance, that it is totally within reason for GB to draft two edge rushers in this years draft, plus sign Connor Barwin. In GB's defense, you can't have enough quality/potential edge rushers.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: JPPlaya on March 11, 2017, 11:54:00 AM
In Barwin's case, he would almost exclusively be asked to play with his hand up and out in space. Not with his hand down on the line. Perry and Jones if re-signed will probably play the elephant role this year. They are more of that DL/OLB Hybrid while Barwin and Clay are more of the true OLB role.

Can you tell me the difference in assignments that a OLB in a 2-4-5 and a DE in 4-3 nickel have? 

There is no difference. 



One plays in space, one plays with his hand in the dirt. The elephant, in our scheme, plays both in space and with his hand in the dirt. Their responsibilities are similar to 4-3 DEs, but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not.

Thats about it. Defense is defense. Call it whatever you want 3-4, 4-3, 2-4-5 (nickel), 2-3-6 (dime). Most teams use some version of all at different times. We prefer to play Nickel the majority of the time.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 12:07:39 PM
"but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not."


I can count the number of times this has happened in the last two years on one hand.  Capers just doesn't ask those guys to drop anymore. 
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Foundling on March 11, 2017, 12:18:53 PM
"but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not."


I can count the number of times this has happened in the last two years on one hand.  Capers just doesn't ask those guys to drop anymore.

Would ask it more if he had a guy who was an asset in that role? It seems possible, since they're talking to Barwin and that's sort of what that guy brings to the table.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Toddfather on March 11, 2017, 12:33:46 PM
I would be all about this... The guy gushes over Rodgers on his top 100 player segments every year. Maybe he wants to win something?
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Leader on March 11, 2017, 12:48:04 PM
I'm not selling anybody short or dissing on anybody. I'm not entirely sure what Barwin's got in the tank either - so my comments could be considered "fill in the blank" with whatever player equates to what I've seen out of Barwin: relentless pursuit and agression at the point of attack. He brings it - or he used to at least - and our D so desperately needs a player like that IMO. Somebody who's gonna break his man down and get after the QB/RB.

If somebody else can do that - fine with me - no arguement at all. I just want that "step up" to the D. It'll make our secondary that much better to have PRESSURE guys up front. Take Barwin - then draft Watt?

Weapons in the DL/LB corps. Guys that will / can get after folks.

We have issues covering guys? Okay - evaluate / change / coach up the talent - and/or - get guys up front who are gonna chop down the QB's time in the pocket and smack him around.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Donzo on March 11, 2017, 12:50:15 PM
"but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not."
I can count the number of times this has happened in the last two years on one hand.  Capers just doesn't ask those guys to drop anymore.

Are you a freak with a thousand fingers?  hatsoff)

It happens a lot... One of my best memories of Peppers was his pick six against the the vikes.



Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Donzo on March 11, 2017, 12:57:48 PM
This is just wrong.  The 2-4-5 looks a hell of a lot more like a 4-3 defense than 3-4. 
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/MiamiHLOPS.png)

Sorry for nitpicking your posts, but the 2-4-5 is real close to the standard 3-4-4.

In this alignment, one of the 3 down linemen is replaced with a deep safety- this is a standard Packer 2-4-5 alignment... At left OLB, Peppers is crouching for whatever reason, but he's lined up outside the TE- classic 3-4 OLB.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Donzo on March 11, 2017, 01:04:33 PM
A lot of different things posted here about Barwin... His skill-set is excellent, both as a pass rusher and a rund defender- FYI, he's 20lbs+ heavier than Frak... He's now on the wrong side of 30, so there's that.

Philly switched to a 4-3 last year, he's much better in the 3-4.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: cheech on March 11, 2017, 02:19:57 PM
This is just wrong.  The 2-4-5 looks a hell of a lot more like a 4-3 defense than 3-4. 
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz11/mascho030916/MiamiHLOPS.png)

Sorry for nitpicking your posts, but the 2-4-5 is real close to the standard 3-4-4.

In this alignment, one of the 3 down linemen is replaced with a deep safety- this is a standard Packer 2-4-5 alignment... At left OLB, Peppers is crouching for whatever reason, but he's lined up outside the TE- classic 3-4 OLB.

He's lined up even with the TE and more importantly his assignment is to take on that double team should they run to his side.  That requires bulk and strength.  Any 4-3 DE would line up in a similar position - just in a 3 point stance. 

(http://d1s25m6npd4nen.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/post/2015/05/cover_3_buzz_at_miami.jpg)

The only difference between that defensive formation and a 4-3 nickel can be seen in the 2 point vs. 3 point stance. 

(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/4130719/Nickel_1.png)
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 11, 2017, 04:02:55 PM
"but OLBs and even elephants are asked to drop in coverage a fair amount while 4-3 DEs normally are not."


I can count the number of times this has happened in the last two years on one hand.  Capers just doesn't ask those guys to drop anymore.

Peppers did his first year in GB.

He had two pick-6's that year.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: SSGCujo on March 12, 2017, 09:06:04 PM
 Barwin is to meet with the Bengals tomorrow.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Leader on March 13, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
Jason Wilde‏Verified account @jasonjwilde 1m1 minute ago:
Connor Barwin is visiting the Bengals today, so I'm guessing he won't be joining the Packers.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/03/13/reports-connor-barwin-visiting-bengals/99120780/
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 13, 2017, 09:50:50 AM
Jason Wilde‏Verified account @jasonjwilde 1m1 minute ago:
Connor Barwin is visiting the Bengals today, so I'm guessing he won't be joining the Packers.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/03/13/reports-connor-barwin-visiting-bengals/99120780/

Looks like it's possible neither House or Barwin end up in GB.

Too bad, because with losing Lang, they have more than enough money at this point.

Without factoring Kendricks numbers (because they still aren't available), the Packers still having $29.6M in cap space for 2017.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Leader on March 13, 2017, 09:53:55 AM
Jason Wilde‏Verified account @jasonjwilde 1m1 minute ago:
Connor Barwin is visiting the Bengals today, so I'm guessing he won't be joining the Packers.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/03/13/reports-connor-barwin-visiting-bengals/99120780/

Looks like it's possible neither House or Barwin end up in GB.

Too bad, because with losing Lang, they have more than enough money at this point.

Without factoring Kendricks numbers (because they still aren't available), the Packers still having $29.6M in cap space for 2017.

Question -

Was he in GB - got an offer and walked?
Or -
Was he in GB - got an offer and walked to get others before deciding?

Do we know whats up?
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: LMG on March 13, 2017, 10:01:19 AM
Or...was he even in GB?
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: JQ on March 13, 2017, 10:12:46 AM
Barwin has only “heard from” Green Bay, based upon a Google search.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Big Lou on March 13, 2017, 10:13:00 AM
Or...was he even in GB?

With the signings of Bennett Friday, and Peppers three years ago, I often wonder how many FA's come in to GB for a visit and leave without a deal.  Those two signings came out of nowhere, and the Packers seem to demand absolute secrecy when it comes to free agent visits.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: JQ on March 13, 2017, 10:36:04 AM
Or...was he even in GB?

With the signings of Bennett Friday, and Peppers three years ago, I often wonder how many FA’s come in to GB for a visit and leave without a deal.  Those two signings came out of nowhere, and the Packers seem to demand absolute secrecy when it comes to free agent visits.

A good point Lou. I’ve wondered how the Packers, in these days of internet and instant social media, are able to broker these deals seemingly out of nowhere. Is it possible the Packers send their people to meet on the potential FA’s turf?

Maybe a question to pose to Spoff and WesHod...
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: elginpackerbacker on March 14, 2017, 03:14:55 PM
the sports radio station in chicago claim he has signed with the bears but cant find anything concrete yet
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: pacman5252 on March 14, 2017, 03:43:39 PM
I'd love Barwin. I really wanted him in 2009 in the second since he was the smaller school (Cinci) workout stud, but we traded up for clay (a win). He is really the only half decent pass rusher on the market right now and wouldn't cost comp picks.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: SSG on March 14, 2017, 03:49:00 PM
the sports radio station in chicago claim he has signed with the bears but cant find anything concrete yet

Hope this isn't the case.  We really need this guy with Peppers and Jones leaving and CM3 getting dropped back into coverage more.  Kyler Fackrell looked to be a long long way from being a defensive contributor. 
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Twain on March 14, 2017, 04:35:01 PM
the sports radio station in chicago claim he has signed with the bears but cant find anything concrete yet

Bears signed kicker Connor Barth--

not Barwin.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: ThatGuy284 on March 14, 2017, 05:24:50 PM
Bad move for them - checked the stats, seems Barth didn't have any sacks last year
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: elginpackerbacker on March 14, 2017, 05:48:00 PM
glad i heard that wrong then :D
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 14, 2017, 06:57:02 PM
I want Barwin. I've made no bones about that even when it was just rumored that the Eagles might make him a cap casualty.

With all the cash Ted has on hand, I can't understand why this hasn't happened already??.........Unless there's something else in the wind, and Ted is keeping it hidden behind closed doors.

Dare I say.............................Dont'a Hightower??
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: ThatGuy284 on March 14, 2017, 08:41:51 PM
Ah the tricks people play in their minds the same time every year.  I think he's close to signing Hightower and trading with the Broncos for Chris Harris and I will be shocked and bitterly disappointed should neither occur
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: green machine on March 15, 2017, 07:40:09 AM
He is visiting the Rams today.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Leader on March 15, 2017, 10:00:58 AM
He is visiting the Rams today.

Rotoworld:
Free agent OLB Connor Barwin is visiting the Rams on Wednesday.
This makes too much sense not to happen. Barwin turns 31 this year, but the Rams are transitioning to a 3-4 defense under new DC Wade Phillips and have zero edge rushers behind Robert Quinn. Barwin played for Phillips in Houston earlier in his career. He's appeared in all 16 games each of the past six seasons and remains a reliable edge-setter with 46 sacks the past six years.
Source: Gary Klein on Twitter Mar 15 - 10:16 AM
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 15, 2017, 11:03:35 AM
He is visiting the Rams today.

Rotoworld:
Free agent OLB Connor Barwin is visiting the Rams on Wednesday.
This makes too much sense not to happen. Barwin turns 31 this year, but the Rams are transitioning to a 3-4 defense under new DC Wade Phillips and have zero edge rushers behind Robert Quinn. Barwin played for Phillips in Houston earlier in his career. He's appeared in all 16 games each of the past six seasons and remains a reliable edge-setter with 46 sacks the past six years.
Source: Gary Klein on Twitter Mar 15 - 10:16 AM

And TT is sitting with $10M+ more available cap space than the Rams.

It does make sense for the Rams, but if Ted wants him more, he can get him.

I won't be surprised if he signs with LAR, but the overweight person hasn't sung yet
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Leader on March 15, 2017, 11:13:31 AM
It does make sense for the Rams, but if Ted wants him more, he can get him.

Agree entirely. TT's gotta be planning on spending that cash on somebody.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: JPPlaya on March 15, 2017, 08:00:34 PM
H
It does make sense for the Rams, but if Ted wants him more, he can get him.

Agree entirely. TT's gotta be planning on spending that cash on somebody.
Gosh I hope so. Its been an uncharacteristic off season. We've retained far fewer than normal and so far signed more than normal.

On Barwin. The Rams do make sense from a familiarity standpoint. But....I'm hoping that a cat like Barwin put more of a premium on winning and wants to make a run. The Rams are probably still a couple of years away and thats if everything goes right.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Pugger on March 16, 2017, 07:05:50 AM
Did he leave LA without a deal?
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: green machine on March 16, 2017, 03:55:16 PM
Did he leave LA without a deal?
no, the Rams just announced his signing.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Lodestar on March 16, 2017, 04:12:07 PM
Major bummer.

1 year, $6.5 million.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Leader on March 16, 2017, 04:22:12 PM
Major bummer.
1 year, $6.5 million.

Okay :(
I'm outta names.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: golfman on March 16, 2017, 05:35:43 PM
Major bummer.
1 year, $6.5 million.

Okay :(
I'm outta names.

I'm retired so I'm out! Me thinks we get one in round 1 of the draft. Me also thinks TT is actually going to go to Madison to get that hypothetical EDGE rusher.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: LMG on March 16, 2017, 05:52:48 PM
I don't there were a lot of teams really that interested in Barwin...including the Packers.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: dannobanano on March 16, 2017, 06:01:00 PM
I don't there were a lot of teams really that interested in Barwin...including the Packers.

Maybe not at $6.5M, but if his number had been around $5M I think that would be a different opinion.

I agree with golf right now (even though my last mock didn't have an edge guy in Rnd 1).

I think that the strategy changes now and either edge rusher or CB are the two target options.

I read today that Dallas has lost 4 of it's secondary to free agency, so even though the rumor mill was speculating that TJ Watt was the Pokes 1st round target, I have to think their priorities have changed, and IF Watt is still on the board at #29 then Ted will not hesitate.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Gregg on March 16, 2017, 08:36:33 PM
What a bummer.

I wonder if ten million over two years would have gotten him?

This  means that, almost certainly,  we are going with a rookie at OLB.

Which leads to the question of, what is going to be our depth at the position?
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: LMG on March 16, 2017, 10:47:33 PM
What a bummer.

I wonder if ten million over two years would have gotten him?

This  means that, almost certainly,  we are going with a rookie at OLB.

Which leads to the question of, what is going to be our depth at the position?



We'll find ou in early September won't we.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Donzo on March 21, 2017, 04:54:16 AM
I don't there were a lot of teams really that interested in Barwin...including the Packers.

A $6.5M contract suggests there was interest.

From what I understand, he went with a previous coach he really liked.
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: Donzo on March 21, 2017, 04:56:59 AM
What a bummer.

This  means that, almost certainly,  we are going with a rookie at OLB.

Huh-  ??? ?

Did something happen to Mathews, Perry, Elliot or Fackrell?
Title: Re: Conner Barwin
Post by: SSG on March 21, 2017, 06:00:09 AM
What a bummer.

I wonder if ten million over two years would have gotten him?

This  means that, almost certainly,  we are going with a rookie at OLB.

Which leads to the question of, what is going to be our depth at the position?


We're certainly going to draft at least 1 and maybe 2 OLBs.  Losing Peppers and Jones was significant as the depth we had behind those 2 is almost nonexistent. Jones played a lot of our early down snaps due to his ability in support of the run.  Not sure who is going to fill that role next season.  With CM3 getting moved back into the middle substantially more, we've got major issues at OLB.