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General Category => Green Bay Packers News Talk => Topic started by: gbnd4life on October 30, 2018, 07:01:17 AM

Title: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: gbnd4life on October 30, 2018, 07:01:17 AM
Hello Everyone!! I know this might be kind of early, but I think this would be fun to discuss!! I was watching the Dan Patrick Show and they thought and think the McCarthy’s time in Packer land is over and McCarthy will be heading to Cleveland. Now if if if that would happen Who would or should be the Packers next coach!!
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: PackerJoe on October 30, 2018, 09:03:14 AM
Bill Cowher is one off the top of my head.   ::)

Did you know that McCarthy's record when Rodgers isn't playing is not that better than Hue Jackson's at Cleveland?  Doesn't some much for McCarthy or the last ten years of drafting under TT. :'

Don't know if Gutenkest or TT ran the last draft. A little better last year.

Need OL, pass rushing help.  Lots of talented DL coming out next year.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: scoremore on October 30, 2018, 09:52:21 AM
Mike McCarthy
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: danvillepack on October 30, 2018, 11:55:33 AM
Mike Pettine.  Leave Philbin as OC, or let Pettine pick a new one, and hire or promote a DC.

As for Bill Cowher, I think his time has passed as a coach.  The game has changed significantly in the last 10 years.  The QBs are wearing skirts now, and the players are stronger AND faster.  That requires someone who has been keeping up with these changes and can coach accordingly.  The Packers can probably get anyone they want, so I’d like to see the season play out and then find the best emerging young talent.

Now as much as I’d like to see MM gone, I’d rather they win it all and then of course he stays.  As optimistic as I am, I don’t see this team making a deep playoff run, assuming they make the playoffs, not an insignificant “if”.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Shinesman on October 30, 2018, 01:02:32 PM
I'm not too keen on many coordinators these days, but maybe Josh McDaniels if he wants another shot. He does a lot with average weapons over the years in NE. We have a QB that is every bit as good as Brady, we have a WR squad more talented, a running back on par with the crew in NE, the only thing they have better is TE. But we dont have slouches there either. Brady is 41, and when he goes, the Pat's will be having a tough time. McDaniels could come inherit Rodgers and Co. And continue to dominate with his offensive mind that has continually adopted to the game as it changes.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: dannobanano on October 30, 2018, 01:08:30 PM
I posted this in a different thread..............it should have been here.

Quote
Put me down for Pete Carmichael (OC Saints).
He's been there for 10 years.
QB coach his first 3 years and the OC the last 7 years.
His entire time he's been there, the Saints offense has been ranked in the top 10 of all NFL offenses.
He's been learning from Payton, and could be a great fit with GB.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Shinesman on October 30, 2018, 01:12:14 PM
I posted this in a different thread..............it should have been here.

Quote
Put me down for Pete Carmichael (OC Saints).
He's been there for 10 years.
QB coach his first 3 years and the OC the last 7 years.
His entire time he's been there, the Saints offense has been ranked in the top 10 of all NFL offenses.
He's been learning from Payton, and could be a great fit with GB.

I like this idea
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: The GM on October 30, 2018, 03:43:16 PM
A couple of schools of thought on this.

WHO MAKES THE PICK?

A big part of this process if finding out who makes the selection.  Is it Gute?  Is it Murphy who McCarthy currently reports to?  Does the organization structure go back to the HC reporting to the GM?  It could be very attractive for a new coach to report directly to Murphy.   Not sure if that changes or not.

Murphy is the guy who has to fire McCarthy, are we convinced Murphy will actually do it?  Im not so convinced with Murphy calling the shots McCarthy wont get another year regardless of his record .


WHO TO PICK?


You have to decide which approach you want.  Keep in mind Aaron Rodgers shelf life throughout this selection process. Do you want to gamble on a hot shot Coordinator?  Somebody who may/may not be successful and may take time to insert their system??  Could work very well, or could waste Rodgers years of productivity.
That being said, the most successful Head Coaches in the modern era in Green Bay were all Offensive Coordinators from other teams: Lombardi, Holmgren and McCarthy. 

Oklahoma HC Lincoln Riley is the supposed next big thing.  Problem is everybody will want him.  With very little, if any NFL experience is he the guy for Rodgers final years.  What if he's the next Steve Spurrier?   I like Riley and would gamble on him both during Rodgers years and potentially after.  It will be tough to get him though.
 
My short term solution is a guy designed to get Rodgers to Super Bowl(s) in his time left.  He's a winner, has SB experience.    My selection would be Jim Harbaugh.   He quickly turned around University of San Diego, He rebuilt a down and out Stanford into a powerhouse, He quickly took San Fran from a doormat to a Super Bowl contender while he was there.  He took a down and out Michigan program to its current status in the top 10.   I know he's brash and abrasive, but he's a winner.  Getting him out of Michigan might be tough, but they have games coming against Ohio St, if he loses that one again you might hear some rumblings.  If you are looking for a quick fix in Green Bay, he might be our best shot with Rodgers time left.  Harbaugh usually has about a 5-6 year life and he starts wearing on the organization.  His teams play hard, and with all the question marks out there in coaching today, I'd give him strong consideration with what we are facing in Rodgers time left.  JMO. 
 
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Payne85 on October 30, 2018, 04:16:37 PM
So Clinton-Dix was or was not worth the $6 million option they signed him to for 2018?

Payne85
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: phanatic1 on October 30, 2018, 04:22:54 PM
I was thinking about this the other day and I think that if MM is let go, the list will be very lengthy and extensive.  No matter what people may say, the chance to be the Head Coach of the Green Bay Packers is a pretty elite position.  Right now, I think the list would be:

Josh McDaniels - Pats OC - He passed on the Colts job and said it didn't feel right.  But the chance to work with Rodgers and a legit chance to be a contender may be enough to sway him.

John DeFillipo - Vikings OC - Rising up the charts quickly and is getting that offensive guru label after working with Pederson in Philly.

Lincoln Riley - Oklahoma HC - As others have said, he will be highly sought after and his ideas and philosophies are growing in the NFL.

Dan Campbell - Saints TE coach - Has experience being the head coach, albeit on a limited basis. 

All of those guys are young and would bring some new offensive ideas to the Packers.  And, some current head coaches will be fired or not return back to their teams and would be attractive.  A guy like Bill O'Brien who may be in trouble if the Texans don't make the playoffs. 
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: The GM on October 30, 2018, 05:06:02 PM
Not a big fan of the Bellichick coaching tree.  Weis, Crennel, Mangini were failures.  Patricia may yet work out but.....I think McDaniel will stay in NE and be the HC there.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: craig on October 30, 2018, 05:48:58 PM
It's common to figure that players win games, not coaches.  And that I should be too grown up to be like 7th-grade me who thought a new coach might fix lots of things. 

Seeing the impact of the Bucks going from Jason Kidd to Budenholzer does remind me that maybe my 7th grade self wasn't all wrong, and that coaching can (sometimes) make a difference? 

Yes, I know, football is a different game than basketball, I realize.  (And I can't imagine MM is as negative an influence as was Kidd.....) 
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Shinesman on October 30, 2018, 06:09:36 PM
It's common to figure that players win games, not coaches.  And that I should be too grown up to be like 7th-grade me who thought a new coach might fix lots of things. 

Seeing the impact of the Bucks going from Jason Kidd to Budenholzer does remind me that maybe my 7th grade self wasn't all wrong, and that coaching can (sometimes) make a difference? 

Yes, I know, football is a different game than basketball, I realize.  (And I can't imagine MM is as negative an influence as was Kidd.....)

You severely underestimate the impact of a coach on a team. The best coaches understand players skills and limitations and tailor their game plan to their players strengths. Average coaches think they can come up with a scheme and any players should be able to deliver within that scheme. The latter is what we have right now. There is a reason certain coaches can go to almost any team and have good amounts of success, it's because they understand you have to use the tools at hand to get the job done.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on October 31, 2018, 01:50:51 PM
In the NFL Talk section of this site I listed some coaches who could be the next Browns HC. The same applies to the Packers if MM is gone, so these were the names I had down:

DeFilippo (Vikings OC)
Lazor (Cincy OC)
Monken (Tampa OC)

Leach (Wash St. HC)
Shaw (Stanford HC)
Riley (Sooners HC)

Maybe only one, and surely no more than two of these six coaches would actually work out for the NFL team that got them, even assuming they all became NFL head coaches, which they won't.  The success rate of HCs is not good.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Donzo on October 31, 2018, 02:10:06 PM
You severely underestimate the impact of a coach on a team.


He referenced the Bucks situation, so I don't know how he severely underestimated a coaches impact.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Donzo on October 31, 2018, 02:14:33 PM
If MM is gone, so these were the names I had down:

Riley (Sooners HC)


Yes please!

For years, I've disregarded all the MM hate... But, in my Kevin Greens voice- "it's time".

Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: B on November 01, 2018, 06:11:39 AM
Mike McCarthy until he quits or is fired. Everything else is kind of silly since there will be tons of factors that at this point are unknowable.

Since we don't have to factor in any of the unknowns like availability, affordability, desire for the job...
 why not say Bill Belichick it makes as much and/or as little sense as...
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Bignutz on November 01, 2018, 08:26:53 AM
It's common to figure that players win games, not coaches.  And that I should be too grown up to be like 7th-grade me who thought a new coach might fix lots of things. 

Seeing the impact of the Bucks going from Jason Kidd to Budenholzer does remind me that maybe my 7th grade self wasn't all wrong, and that coaching can (sometimes) make a difference? 

Yes, I know, football is a different game than basketball, I realize.  (And I can't imagine MM is as negative an influence as was Kidd.....)

I disagree with you here. A good coach makes all the difference. A good coach uses the talent he has and shapes his game plan and philosophy accordingly. Bellechik is a master at this, as was Lombardi. Having a roster full of superstars doesn’t garantee a Super Bowl.A ship needs a good captain.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: B on November 01, 2018, 02:23:12 PM
And some might argue that the 28th winningest NFL coach of all-time would qualify as a good coach/captain

Rk   Coach   Yrs   Yr-Yr   G   W   L   T   W-L%   G > .500   Yr plyf   G plyf   W plyf   L plyf   W-L%   AvRk   BstRk   Chmp   SBwl   Conf
1   Don Shula+   33   1963-1995   490   328   156   6   .677   172   19   36   19   17   .528   1.8   1   2   2   6
2   George Halas+   40   1920-1967   497   318   148   31   .682   170   8   9   6   3   .667   2.7   1   6   0   0
3   Bill Belichick   24   1991-2018   376   256   120   0   .681   136   16   39   28   11   .718   1.7   1   5   5   8
4   Tom Landry+   29   1960-1988   418   250   162   6   .607   88   18   36   20   16   .556   2.4   1   2   2   5
5   Curly Lambeau+   33   1921-1953   380   226   132   22   .631   94   5   5   3   2   .600   3.2   1   6   0   0
6   Paul Brown+   25   1946-1975   326   213   104   9   .672   109   15   17   9   8   .529   2.0   1   7   0   0
7   Marty Schottenheimer   21   1984-2006   327   200   126   1   .613   74   13   18   5   13   .278   2.0   1   0   0   0
8   Chuck Noll+   23   1969-1991   342   193   148   1   .566   45   12   24   16   8   .667   2.1   1   4   4   4
9   Dan Reeves   23   1981-2003   357   190   165   2   .535   25   9   20   11   9   .550   2.7   1   0   0   4
10   Andy Reid   20   1999-2018   312   190   121   1   .611   69   13   24   11   13   .458   2.0   1   0   0   1
11   Chuck Knox   22   1973-1994   334   186   147   1   .558   39   11   18   7   11   .389   2.6   1   0   0   0
12   Jeff Fisher   22   1994-2016   339   173   165   1   .512   8   6   11   5   6   .455   2.8   1   0   0   1
13   Bill Parcells+   19   1983-2006   303   172   130   1   .569   42   10   19   11   8   .579   2.5   1   2   2   3
14   Tom Coughlin   20   1995-2015   320   170   150   0   .531   20   9   19   12   7   .632   2.5   1   2   2   2
15   Mike Shanahan   20   1988-2013   308   170   138   0   .552   32   8   14   8   6   .571   2.6   1   2   2   2
16   Mike Holmgren   17   1992-2008   272   161   111   0   .592   50   12   24   13   11   .542   1.8   1   1   1   3
17   Bud Grant+   18   1967-1985   259   158   96   5   .621   62   12   22   10   12   .455   1.9   1   0   0   4
18   Joe Gibbs+   16   1981-2007   248   154   94   0   .621   60   10   24   17   7   .708   2.4   1   3   3   4
19   Steve Owen+   24   1930-1953   270   153   100   17   .605   53   10   10   2   8   .200   2.3   1   2   0   0
20   Bill Cowher   15   1992-2006   240   149   90   1   .623   59   10   21   12   9   .571   1.9   1   1   1   2
21   Marv Levy+   17   1978-1997   255   143   112   0   .561   31   8   19   11   8   .579   2.7   1   0   0   4
22   Tony Dungy+   13   1996-2008   208   139   69   0   .668   70   11   19   9   10   .474   1.8   1   1   1   1
23   John Fox   16   2002-2017   256   133   123   0   .520   10   7   15   8   7   .533   2.4   1   0   0   2
24   Hank Stram+   17   1960-1977   238   131   97   10   .574   34   5   8   5   3   .625   2.2   1   2   1   2
25   Weeb Ewbank+   20   1954-1973   266   130   129   7   .502   1   4   5   4   1   .800   3.0   1   3   1   1
26   Marvin Lewis   16   2003-2018   248   130   115   3   .530   15   7   7   0   7   .000   2.3   1   0   0   0
27   Jim Mora   15   1986-2001   231   125   106   0   .541   19   6   6   0   6   .000   2.9   1   0   0   0
28   Mike McCarthy   13   2006-2018   199   124   73   2   .628   51   9   18   10   8   .556   1.8   1   1   1   1
29   Sid Gillman+   18   1955-1974   228   122   99   7   .552   23   6   6   1   5   .167   2.6   1   1   0   0
30   Mike Ditka+   14   1982-1999   216   121   95   0   .560   26   7   12   6   6   .500   2.6   1   1   1   1
31   Mike Tomlin   12   2007-2018   183   120   62   1   .658   58   8   15   8   7   .533   1.6   1   1   1   2
32   Dick Vermeil   15   1976-2005   229   120   109   0   .524   11   6   11   6   5   .545   3.0   1   1   1   2
33   George Allen+   12   1966-1977   168   116   47   5   .712   69   7   9   2   7   .222   1.9   1   0   0   1
34   Pete Carroll   13   1994-2018   199   116   82   1   .585   34   8   17   10   7   .588   2.3   1   1   1   2
35   George Seifert   11   1989-2001   176   114   62   0   .648   52   7   15   10   5   .667   1.9   1   2   2   2
36   Norv Turner   15   1994-2012   237   114   122   1   .483   -8   4   8   4   4   .500   2.5   1   0   0   0
37   Dennis Green   13   1992-2006   207   113   94   0   .546   19   8   12   4   8   .333   2.5   1   0   0   0
38   Don Coryell   14   1973-1986   195   111   83   1   .572   28   6   9   3   6   .333   2.8   1   0   0   0
39   Sean Payton   12   2006-2018   183   111   72   0   .607   39   6   12   7   5   .583   2.0   1   1   1   1
40   Buddy Parker   15   1949-1964   188   104   75   9   .581   29   3   4   3   1   .750   3.2   1   2   0   0
41   John Madden+   10   1969-1978   142   103   32   7   .759   71   8   16   9   7   .563   1.3   1   1   1   1
42   John Harbaugh   11   2008-2018   168   98   70   0   .583   28   6   15   10   5   .667   2.2   1   1   1   1
43   Tom Flores   12   1979-1994   184   97   87   0   .527   10   5   11   8   3   .727   3.3   1   2   2   2
44   Jon Gruden   12   1998-2018   183   96   87   0   .525   9   5   9   5   4   .556   2.4   1   1   1   1
45   Vince Lombardi+   10   1959-1969   136   96   34   6   .738   62   6   10   9   1   .900   1.5   1   5   2   2
46   Lou Saban   16   1960-1976   201   95   99   7   .490   -4   4   4   2   2   .500   3.0   1   2   0   0
47   Jack Del Rio   12   2003-2017   187   93   94   0   .497   -1   3   4   1   3   .250   2.8   2   0   0   0
48   Bill Walsh+   10   1979-1988   152   92   59   1   .609   33   7   14   10   4   .714   1.8   1   3   3   3
49   Buck Shaw   12   1946-1960   150   90   55   5   .621   35   2   3   2   1   .667   2.6   1   1   0   0
50   Lovie Smith   11   2004-2015   176   89   87   0   .506   2   3   6   3   3   .500   2.7   1   0   0   1
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: craig on November 01, 2018, 03:36:52 PM
Would you, B? 
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: The GM on November 01, 2018, 03:52:27 PM
I consider McCarthy a good coach, he's ranked #28.  Then you go light years ahead of McCarthy up to #12 Jeff Fisher.  Whats happened to the Rams since Fisher left??? Just Sayin.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: B on November 01, 2018, 04:57:20 PM
GM, Jeff Fischer was a good (never great) coach, who had success as a player and coach.

However, he was never a good fit with the Rams where he was 31-45-1 - he earned being fired.

Further,
regular season:
Fischer 173 - 165 - 1 - .512
McCarthy 124 - 73 - 2 - .628

post season:
Fischer 5 - 6 - .455
McCarthy 10 - 8 - .556

Fischer 22 seasons
McCarthy 13 seasons

Not a great comparison IMO. McCarthy has been a far more successful coach when placed in context/

craig, Yes.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Shinesman on November 01, 2018, 07:21:37 PM
GM, Jeff Fischer was a good (never great) coach, who had success as a player and coach.

However, he was never a good fit with the Rams where he was 31-45-1 - he earned being fired.

Further,
regular season:
Fischer 173 - 165 - 1 - .512
McCarthy 124 - 73 - 2 - .628

post season:
Fischer 5 - 6 - .455
McCarthy 10 - 8 - .556

Fischer 22 seasons
McCarthy 13 seasons

Not a great comparison IMO. McCarthy has been a far more successful coach when placed in context/

craig, Yes.

Did Jeff Fisher have Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers as Quarterbacks? McCarthy without those two is abysmal. He ran the worst offense in the league for two years in San Fran before getting the HC job in Green Bay. He got the job because he was a prior staff member. Not because he was impressive in his coordinator stint.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Shinesman on November 01, 2018, 07:25:31 PM
You severely underestimate the impact of a coach on a team.


He referenced the Bucks situation, so I don't know how he severely underestimated a coaches impact.

He said it can sometimes make a difference. It makes a difference all the time. No two coaches are the same, and they dictate everything from the practice tempo and excersizes to the teams weekly game plan. Coaches are one of the biggest factors in success. That's why they get paid the big bucks and are quick to get the axe if they dont deliver.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Gregg on November 01, 2018, 08:42:46 PM
I have always said this: the only comparison I can think of to having Favre and then AR as your QB is the Montana/Young tandem.

MM had both for his entire duration and so far he has won one SB.

I have also said that you do not measure an excellent to great coach by if he wins one SB. You measure by consistency. 

BB has a great QB in Brady and he has won five rings..



Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: B on November 01, 2018, 09:46:24 PM
This gets silly.

 ~ Vince Lombardi had hall of fame QB Bart Starr for all of his success
 ~ Bill Belichick didn't win until he had hall of fame QB Tom Brady. He was fired as a failure after  4 seasons in Cleveland where he compiled a 36 - 44 record.
~ Don Shula, the God father of winning coaches in the NFL with 328-156-6 (.678) had three Hall of Fame QB's Unitas, Griese and Marino. Don won ZERO championships with Dan Marino has his QB, he only one 1 with Unitas. Would any of you argue that he was not a GREAT coach? Ironically, his greatest successes came with Griese - the lesser talented of the three great QB's he had during his career.

Either a coach matters and gets credit when his teams win or they don't matter as much -- pick one because trying to argue both ways is nonsense.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on November 02, 2018, 01:37:12 AM
There might be 10 coaches, ever, who played for a decent length of time and had a better win % than McCarthy. That is the statistic you most want to see in a head coach, consistency. That is a big plus against MM.

MM has had two HOF QBs in his time at GB, so expectations (of the fans) for him are very, very high. Just one SB is a minus.

So what we have here is a failure to communicate an endless roundabout, one side says he is a winner and should be kept, the other side says with the QBs he had, there should be more SBs.

I think MM has kept the Packers stable and competitive for a very long time. I also think that over time a coach can get stale (no matter how much they self-scout). So, as you can see I'm somewhat conflicted here. I do think a change in HC would be the final step in 'freshening up' the franchise (a process that started with the re-organisation of front office and coaches before this season), but I also recognise the odds of getting a coach in that is better than McCarthy are poor, probably somewhere around 30/70, maybe even less.

Advocates of change will dispute my 30/70, but I think it isn't far from the mark.  twocents)
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: B on November 02, 2018, 05:23:24 AM
 goodpost OneTwoSixFive hard to argue with your well thought out balanced twocents)

BTW: Like you, I have no stake (other than the very unique situation for the NFL of being a shareholder) in whether or not the Packers retain McCarthy after this season. Change can be good, but if it is not managed well it can also lead to chaos and disaster. Fans can do whatever they please, but I believe talk of replacing a competent and successful coach during a football season where playoff and championship hopes are still of alive are at best premature and at worst reckless and undermining.

Here is what Bill Belichick, widely seen as a GREAT coach has to say on the topic:
“Mike’s one of the best coaches I’ve ever gone up against.”
“Coach McCarthy does a great job with this team, this organization,” Belichick said as the team’s preparations to face the Packers shifted into high gear. “It’s one of the great organizations in all of sports, certainly in the National Football League. I have a ton of respect for the way they’re run, what they do, how they do it, and how consistently they’ve done it.”

So back to my thoughts, Like last week, I am very much looking forward to watching our team facing another huge challenge on Sunday in Foxborough, in what should be another great football game.

 
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: RT on November 02, 2018, 07:19:18 AM
Good series of post B and 1265, nice to see some rationale applied to this topic.

Last year when MM signed a one year extension, that should of told us all something.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Gregg on November 02, 2018, 09:46:16 AM
The other point is this: take a look at how successful he has been when AR was not playing. 

This undermines the point you three are making above.

Now take a look at what BB did the year without Brady.

Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: B on November 02, 2018, 09:50:15 AM
The other point is this: take a look at how successful he has been when AR was not playing. 

This undermines the point you three are making above.

Now take a look at what BB did the year without Brady.

Gregg, then it would also be fair to look at how he did in Cleveland without Brady too: 36 - 44.

Further, I think we all agree that Belichick is a GREAT coach - even if he cheats 8)
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: dannobanano on November 02, 2018, 10:39:49 AM
I'll draw a comparison between 2 historic franchise's here.

Green Bay and Pittsburgh.

Chuck Noll led the 70's Steelers to 4 SB's during that decade, yet never won another SB before finally retiring in 1991, which ushered in the Bill Cowher era in Steel City which brought them back to being consistently contending and more SB's.

After Bradshaw & Co. started to decline, Noll struggled to find the right "formula" win more SB's. Eventually, he probably realized that it was going to take a new face and fresh idea's to bring the Steelers back to glory.

That may be where the Packers are at this point. It may take a new face and fresh idea's to bring more "Lombardi's" back to Titletown.

Green Bay, like Pittsburgh, have a devoted and ardently loyal fan base.
Green Bay, like Pittsburgh, plays in a smaller media market than some of the other higher profile franchises.
Green Bay, like Pittsburgh, as an organization, shows greater loyalty to coaches/staff/players than a number of other franchises.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: The GM on November 02, 2018, 11:17:32 AM
The other point is this: take a look at how successful he has been when AR was not playing. 

This undermines the point you three are making above.

Now take a look at what BB did the year without Brady.

Spot on Gregg, McCarthy has been disappointing for the past couple of years.  The backups in general arent ready to play, attitude issue arose leading to trades.  I'm on the fence with McCarthy.  Gregg, you have to realize that some of these posters spent the last 5 years slobbering over themselves about the greatness of Dom Capers and his bottomfeeding defenses.  Change can be good, but some will have to go kicking and screaming into the next HC era no matter who and when that is.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: B on November 02, 2018, 12:22:13 PM
That is nonsense GM, especially since I know you can read. When the season ends it may be time for MM and GB to part ways despite the team has signing McCarthy to a contract extension through 2019. That is the most extreme thing that has been said on the topic from the slow down and wait for the season to end crowd.

I am still hoping for a championship run and the decision being made with the team on top. Regardless, that will be the time for evaluating and deciding. If the decision is to make the change I know no one who will be kicking or screaming other than the hysterics who think now (during the season) is the time to be making such a decision.

If Mike is fired or quits to take another job (Cleveland has been widely speculated) the calmer folks will be thanking him for his service and wishing him well. They will be interested in the replacement process and wishing whomever the next coach is does well and takes the Packers to the promised land.

Thoughtful and organized is how successful organizations operate. Green Bay is certainly a very successful organization - I expect them to operate regardless of the decisions about the Head Coaching position. I am pretty sure Danno, RT, OneTwoSixFive, Gregg and others think as well. 
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: The GM on November 02, 2018, 01:26:33 PM
Of course you wait until the end of the season.  They could get on a roll, and McCarthy has earned the right to complete the season IMO.  What happens after that is up to Murphy. For me, McCarthy has been disappointing the past few years.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: Hands on November 02, 2018, 01:33:35 PM
I'll draw a comparison between 2 historic franchise's here.

Green Bay and Pittsburgh.

Chuck Noll led the 70's Steelers to 4 SB's during that decade, yet never won another SB before finally retiring in 1991, which ushered in the Bill Cowher era in Steel City which brought them back to being consistently contending and more SB's.

After Bradshaw & Co. started to decline, Noll struggled to find the right "formula" win more SB's. Eventually, he probably realized that it was going to take a new face and fresh idea's to bring the Steelers back to glory.

That may be where the Packers are at this point. It may take a new face and fresh idea's to bring more "Lombardi's" back to Titletown.

Green Bay, like Pittsburgh, have a devoted and ardently loyal fan base.
Green Bay, like Pittsburgh, plays in a smaller media market than some of the other higher profile franchises.
Green Bay, like Pittsburgh, as an organization, shows greater loyalty to coaches/staff/players than a number of other franchises.
I was at the SB in Dallas and the difference between the two teams and fan base are very little. Different team colors, coaches, and players, but the fans and feel are so much alike. Which makes me wonder who you would get if you fire MM? I hope you have another coach as good as MM on the horizon, if not I can see another decade of records.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: OneTwoSixFive on November 02, 2018, 03:30:51 PM
The other point is this: take a look at how successful he has been when AR was not playing. 

This undermines the point you three are making above.

Now take a look at what BB did the year without Brady.

This doesn't undermine anything. When you have a backup QB in, it's all about how he (the QB) handles it, because unless he is a well travelled vet, he likely will have seen little to no regular season action. So there is a large chunk of luck in how he does. Luck in how well the backup rises to the challenge of real games, luck in how much real experience he has had, luck in the opponent, etc. Yes, the coaches should be striving to make the best of what they have, but if your backup is pretty awful, no team will get far (including NE).

You might get a Matt Flynn type situation, where he really shines for a game, or you might get a Hundley series of games, where he regressed from what he showed in preseason, and bear in mind there had been a few bad drafts for 'Hundley-time', causing a reduction in team talent. MM did not have control of the draft like Belechick, which was in the hands of an aging TT and Russ Ball.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: ricky on November 03, 2018, 07:18:19 AM
I posted this in a different thread..............it should have been here.

Quote
Put me down for Pete Carmichael (OC Saints).
He's been there for 10 years.
QB coach his first 3 years and the OC the last 7 years.
His entire time he's been there, the Saints offense has been ranked in the top 10 of all NFL offenses.
He's been learning from Payton, and could be a great fit with GB.

I like this idea

Seconded! However, there are always risks involved in hiring a new coach. Look at the linked article, and change doesn't always mean success:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/03/with-hue-jackson-fired-most-of-the-2016-new-coaching-class-is-gone/
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: The GM on November 03, 2018, 08:14:54 AM
I posted this in a different thread..............it should have been here.

Quote
Put me down for Pete Carmichael (OC Saints).
He's been there for 10 years.
QB coach his first 3 years and the OC the last 7 years.
His entire time he's been there, the Saints offense has been ranked in the top 10 of all NFL offenses.
He's been learning from Payton, and could be a great fit with GB.

I like this idea

Seconded! However, there are always risks involved in hiring a new coach. Look at the linked article, and change doesn't always mean success:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/03/with-hue-jackson-fired-most-of-the-2016-new-coaching-class-is-gone/

Agree with the article, its gotta be the right fit for Green Bay and the Rodgers ticking clock issue.  A bad hire would be a disaster as Rodgers is on the back nine.  Carmichael may be the perfect choice but you have zero room for error on this one.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: TAYLORBOY on November 03, 2018, 08:30:06 AM
To be  honest and fair one should also include the GM in the conversation...

With Rodgers out would we have done better if we still had T Hill? Look at what the Saints have done with Hill and I feel that is amazing what that kid can do. Now would MM do the same thing?...that is a good question.


MM was tied to TT AND HIS METHOD SINCE HE WAS HIRED.. I think with Gute we might see some different routes to the roster and maybe bring out some better coaching by MM... HaHa and Monte's departure might be the 1st test of how good MM is at adjusting on the fly..


I think the answer to how good MM is at coaching is about to be decided...
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: dannobanano on November 03, 2018, 08:30:47 AM
I posted this in a different thread..............it should have been here.

Quote
Put me down for Pete Carmichael (OC Saints).
He's been there for 10 years.
QB coach his first 3 years and the OC the last 7 years.
His entire time he's been there, the Saints offense has been ranked in the top 10 of all NFL offenses.
He's been learning from Payton, and could be a great fit with GB.

I like this idea

Seconded! However, there are always risks involved in hiring a new coach. Look at the linked article, and change doesn't always mean success:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/03/with-hue-jackson-fired-most-of-the-2016-new-coaching-class-is-gone/

The only reason I made this suggestion is because Payton has been very adept at molding his offenses to the types of skills/talent that he has had on his offenses.
It's always been built around the arm of Drew Brees, but it has morphed over the years to accommodate players who can be dominant like a Jimmy Graham, and now Ingram/Kamara for example.

Carmichael has been involved and absorbing this approach for the last 10 years. So you would think he's maybe a possibility.

But maybe he's not HC material, and is one of those "career" type OC's. But you'll never know until you start to kick the tires and find out if he's got a desire/philosophy that he'd like to apply.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: B on November 03, 2018, 08:44:50 AM
Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy, both good coaches, are a good comparison. Both we're hired in 2006, and both have won a Super Bowl

Mike McCarthy  ranked 28th   2006-2018 
Regular season 199   124   73   2   .628   
Postseason 18   10   8   .556   
Sean Payton   rank 39   2006-2018   
Regular season 183   111   72   0   .607     
Postseason 12   7   5   .583
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: PackerJoe on November 05, 2018, 10:20:24 AM
Take Aaron Rodgers away and McCarthy's records would be near the bottom along with Hue Jackson!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: RT on November 05, 2018, 12:17:51 PM
Take Aaron Rodgers away and McCarthy's records would be near the bottom along with Hue Jackson!!!!!!!

I think everyone understands that every coach benefits from having a very good QB, but your hyperbole has a negative effect on the point you are attempting to make. I get people are frustrated, but MM is not one of the worst coaches in NFL history.

Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: lozmel on November 05, 2018, 04:37:59 PM
Josh McDaniels is a great offensive mind.  I think he could put this offense over the top. Mike Pettine   as turned this defense  around . Give him a few free agents with the $40+ million   in cap  money along with a few offensive linemen  and we will be back in business.
Title: Re: Who will or should be the next head coach of the Packers!!
Post by: mancl on November 05, 2018, 05:46:06 PM
I am sure this thread will get longer as the season goes on.

Here are a few thoughts.

I want nothing to do with Mc Daniel- he's a slime bag who screwed the Colts last year.

Don't want a college coach either.  For one it's a lot different coaching 20 year olds and adults who are making millions of dollars.  And coaching is only part of the job.  A new coach has to put together a staff of 2 dozen or so people. Would a college coach have the connections to put together a staff?

The OC at Minnesota coached with Pettine at NY and was his OC when he was the head guy at Cleveland.  Interesting