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Author Topic: Lacy  (Read 33672 times)

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Offline The GM

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2017, 02:42:15 PM »
... draft a decent RB in the first 3 rounds.  ....A decent RB could thrive in this offense and have a Brian Westbrook/Marshall Faulk type impact.  Lacy isnt going to do that.

Easy enough.  Find a hall of fame running back in the first 3 rounds. Problem solved.

David Johnson, RB, AZ Cardinals, 3rd round pick in 2015.  There are guys like that out there, and a upgrade over Lacy wouldnt be that difficult if he wants to spend the pick.     

Right because every RB drafted in the NFL is the caliber of player that David Johnson is.  There are dozens of RBs selected and signed every year in the NFL, very rarely does a David Johnson caliber player fall on your lap.  It's funny that you think that that caliber of player is the type that just falls off a tree and is easy to find.  I'm pretty sure I don't recall you advocating for the selection of David Johnson during the 2015 NFL draft.  It's easy to point out the easy picks 2 years after their made....   8)

Easy to find, not so much, but when you take into account this offense and defenses focus on Rodgers in the passing game.  You dont need a HOF running back to perform extremely well in this offense.   A decent running back can put up huge numbers.  Lacy is far too fat and slow to be dynamic enough.   The Packers got to the NFCC with Ty Montgomery for crying out loud.    Finding a great running back is hard, finding a good running back who can flourish in this offense and its weapons isnt difficult.           

Eddy Lacy's 2016 season doesn't suggest that he's too fat and slow to be a good RB for GB.  If you want to ignore 100% of that season in an effort to make Lacy out to be a fat slow, back up RB, more power to you.  Its an argument that isn't built on an ounce of fact given how he was playing before the injury.  "Fat slow" RBs aren't hurdling defenders like he did twice against Dallas, a game in which he was playing on one ankle.  "Fat slow" RBs aren't ripping off 20 yard runs with the frequency he was doing it at.  "Fat slow" RBs don't lead EVERY SINGLE ONE of their peers in both broken tackles and yards after contact.  "Fat slow" RBs don't average over 5.1 yards a carry which is almost a full yard more per carry than David Johnson. 

I think you are underestimating how difficult it is to find a RB like David Johnson (all pro caliber RB).  There have been 80 RBs drafted since we took Eddy Lacy.  5 of those RBs not named David Johnson have been an all pro (Lacy included).  The idea that David Johnson, all pro caliber RBs, are all over the NFL is nothing short of ridiculous.  Thats like saying every QB drafted in the 6th round is going to be the next Tom Brady.

Im not exactly sure how we got to the NFCC with a guy who hadnt played RB at the pro level, but his added dimension in the backfield was a key.   The Packers offense struggled with Lacys big 5.1 yards per carry.  His 4 receptions in 5 games certainly wasnt much out of the backfield.  I expect at least 4 receptions per game from a capable back.   His inability to get outside without multiple defenders waiting for him made it easy on opposing defenses.  Lets not forget his 0 TDs this season, perhaps donut is a better word. 

Ty Montgomery came off the street at RB, averaged 5.9 YARDS PER CARRY and actually scored 3 times. Suddenly defenses had to focus on him as a RECEIVING THREAT.  That changed everything.  Rodgers found a groove, no longer could defenses play back and wait for Lacy take take a day and a half to get to a hole, or take forever to get outside.   

If Montgomery can pull this off, what can a dynamic back with some speed and running back experience do??   You can jump up and down all you want about Lacy hurdling defenders.  This offenses loses a lot of potency when he is in there.  Montgomery proved it, and IMO we dont make the playoffs had Lacy been healthy.  We were 3-2 when he played. 

I'd sign Lacy to a small incentive based contract as insurance.  He's too one dimensional, and certainly isn't the back he was 2-3 years ago.  And of all Lacys 20 yard runs how many of those would have been taken to the house by a faster back??  We can do better, a lot better.         
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 03:29:21 PM by The GM »

Offline SSG

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2017, 05:03:56 PM »


Im not exactly sure how we got to the NFCC with a guy who hadnt played RB at the pro level, but his added dimension in the backfield was a key.   The Packers offense struggled with Lacys big 5.1 yards per carry.  His 4 receptions in 5 games certainly wasnt much out of the backfield.  I expect at least 4 receptions per game from a capable back.   His inability to get outside without multiple defenders waiting for him made it easy on opposing defenses.  Lets not forget his 0 TDs this season, perhaps donut is a better word. 

Ty Montgomery came off the street at RB, averaged 5.9 YARDS PER CARRY and actually scored 3 times. Suddenly defenses had to focus on him as a RECEIVING THREAT.  That changed everything.  Rodgers found a groove, no longer could defenses play back and wait for Lacy take take a day and a half to get to a hole, or take forever to get outside.   

If Montgomery can pull this off, what can a dynamic back with some speed and running back experience do??   You can jump up and down all you want about Lacy hurdling defenders.  This offenses loses a lot of potency when he is in there.  Montgomery proved it, and IMO we dont make the playoffs had Lacy been healthy.  We were 3-2 when he played. 

I'd sign Lacy to a small incentive based contract as insurance.  He's too one dimensional, and certainly isn't the back he was 2-3 years ago.  And of all Lacys 20 yard runs how many of those would have been taken to the house by a faster back??  We can do better, a lot better.         

Except that's not how or why our offense turned their season around.  In week 17, our offense continued to dominate yet Rip lead all backs in snaps, carries and yards.  Our offense turned it around because we ditched the iso routes, started playing Jordy in the slot more and the return of Cook.  Our offense played well regardless of who was in the backfield in the second half of the year (Adams, Cobb, Rip, Monty, Michael).

Our inability to run the ball is a reason we got humiliated in the NFC Championship game.  Had we been able to extend drives and not had to throw on 3rd and shorts maybe we don't get laughed off the field.  Atlanta could pin their ears back and bring the heat because they didn't have to respect a running game.  Had we had Lacy, maybe its a game as we didnt' have an offense capable of taking advantage of their biggest weakness without him.  Monty did well in spots but its pretty clear he's not a NFL RB who's going to run the ball 20 times a game.

You "expect" 4 catches a game?  I don't think you understand how ridiculous that is.  2 RBS in the NFL last year put up those sort of receptions.  Adrian Peterson , one of the best RBs ever to play the game has half that number of receptions a game.  Jamal Charles, one of the best receiving backs in the NFL isn't anywhere close to that number.  I think its ridiculous to say that our offense needs a HOF caliber RB to preform at a  high level. 

We might be able to do better than Lacy but there is a great chance we could do substantially worse.  What happens if we draft an Alex Green or Brandon Jackson with the expectation that its easy to find a David Johnson or Leveon Bell caliber RB?  Its crazy that your expectation is for a back to be substantially better than Zeke Elliott.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 05:16:29 PM by SSG »
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Offline OnaBadger58

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2017, 08:43:31 AM »


Im not exactly sure how we got to the NFCC with a guy who hadnt played RB at the pro level, but his added dimension in the backfield was a key.   The Packers offense struggled with Lacys big 5.1 yards per carry.  His 4 receptions in 5 games certainly wasnt much out of the backfield.  I expect at least 4 receptions per game from a capable back.   His inability to get outside without multiple defenders waiting for him made it easy on opposing defenses.  Lets not forget his 0 TDs this season, perhaps donut is a better word. 

Ty Montgomery came off the street at RB, averaged 5.9 YARDS PER CARRY and actually scored 3 times. Suddenly defenses had to focus on him as a RECEIVING THREAT.  That changed everything.  Rodgers found a groove, no longer could defenses play back and wait for Lacy take take a day and a half to get to a hole, or take forever to get outside.   

If Montgomery can pull this off, what can a dynamic back with some speed and running back experience do??   You can jump up and down all you want about Lacy hurdling defenders.  This offenses loses a lot of potency when he is in there.  Montgomery proved it, and IMO we dont make the playoffs had Lacy been healthy.  We were 3-2 when he played. 

I'd sign Lacy to a small incentive based contract as insurance.  He's too one dimensional, and certainly isn't the back he was 2-3 years ago.  And of all Lacys 20 yard runs how many of those would have been taken to the house by a faster back??  We can do better, a lot better.         

Except that's not how or why our offense turned their season around.  In week 17, our offense continued to dominate yet Rip lead all backs in snaps, carries and yards.  Our offense turned it around because we ditched the iso routes, started playing Jordy in the slot more and the return of Cook.  Our offense played well regardless of who was in the backfield in the second half of the year (Adams, Cobb, Rip, Monty, Michael).

Our inability to run the ball is a reason we got humiliated in the NFC Championship game.  Had we been able to extend drives and not had to throw on 3rd and shorts maybe we don't get laughed off the field.  Atlanta could pin their ears back and bring the heat because they didn't have to respect a running game.  Had we had Lacy, maybe its a game as we didnt' have an offense capable of taking advantage of their biggest weakness without him.  Monty did well in spots but its pretty clear he's not a NFL RB who's going to run the ball 20 times a game.

You "expect" 4 catches a game?  I don't think you understand how ridiculous that is.  2 RBS in the NFL last year put up those sort of receptions.  Adrian Peterson , one of the best RBs ever to play the game has half that number of receptions a game.  Jamal Charles, one of the best receiving backs in the NFL isn't anywhere close to that number.  I think its ridiculous to say that our offense needs a HOF caliber RB to preform at a  high level. 

We might be able to do better than Lacy but there is a great chance we could do substantially worse.  What happens if we draft an Alex Green or Brandon Jackson with the expectation that its easy to find a David Johnson or Leveon Bell caliber RB?  Its crazy that your expectation is for a back to be substantially better than Zeke Elliott.

First of all, everyone and their mother knows that Peterson is not a receiving back. Peterson isn't a HOF rb because he can catch... Not even close. And I wouldn't put James White, who is right around that average, in a HOF category either. I don't think it's ridiculous for the Packers to throw to a WR that changed positions to RB 4-5 times a game. That is a huge strength and advantage the Packers possess and need to make it more of a focal point in the offense.

Offline SSG

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2017, 12:00:45 PM »


First of all, everyone and their mother knows that Peterson is not a receiving back. Peterson isn't a HOF rb because he can catch... Not even close. And I wouldn't put James White, who is right around that average, in a HOF category either. I don't think it's ridiculous for the Packers to throw to a WR that changed positions to RB 4-5 times a game. That is a huge strength and advantage the Packers possess and need to make it more of a focal point in the offense.

Of course I wouldn't put James White into that category.  He's almost worthless when being asked to run the ball and is nothing more than a 3rd down back.  WHite's never had more than 30 yards rushing in a game in his entire NFL career muchless showed what it takes to be a featured back.  Are you really going to completely ignore White's rushing ability  to lump him into David Johnson and Leveon Bell's group?
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Offline OnaBadger58

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2017, 12:34:38 PM »


First of all, everyone and their mother knows that Peterson is not a receiving back. Peterson isn't a HOF rb because he can catch... Not even close. And I wouldn't put James White, who is right around that average, in a HOF category either. I don't think it's ridiculous for the Packers to throw to a WR that changed positions to RB 4-5 times a game. That is a huge strength and advantage the Packers possess and need to make it more of a focal point in the offense.

Of course I wouldn't put James White into that category.  He's almost worthless when being asked to run the ball and is nothing more than a 3rd down back.  WHite's never had more than 30 yards rushing in a game in his entire NFL career muchless showed what it takes to be a featured back.  Are you really going to completely ignore White's rushing ability  to lump him into David Johnson and Leveon Bell's group?

The assumption that I'm putting White in the same category as Leveon or Johnson is almost crazier than if you get 4 catches a game from the rb position, you're a HOF rb. So no, I'm not grouping white with those two.

What I am saying is if Monty is our main rb, it's not ridiculous tho think he can have a 60 reception season. Does it happen often, no. Do WRs move to RB often, no. Do teams have QBs they can plug in with the talent of Rodgers, no. In fact, for our offense to run at its highest potential, that should happen.  Having Monty put stress on lbs and ss will only open up the field for Jordy and crew.

Offline The GM

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2017, 04:05:16 PM »
[
What I am saying is if Monty is our main rb, it's not ridiculous tho think he can have a 60 reception season. Does it happen often, no. Do WRs move to RB often, no. Do teams have QBs they can plug in with the talent of Rodgers, no. In fact, for our offense to run at its highest potential, that should happen.  Having Monty put stress on lbs and ss will only open up the field for Jordy and crew.

Bingo!!! 

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2017, 05:18:02 PM »
[
What I am saying is if Monty is our main rb, it's not ridiculous tho think he can have a 60 reception season. Does it happen often, no. Do WRs move to RB often, no. Do teams have QBs they can plug in with the talent of Rodgers, no. In fact, for our offense to run at its highest potential, that should happen.  Having Monty put stress on lbs and ss will only open up the field for Jordy and crew.

Bingo!!!

So would a great receiving RB like McCaffrey or Kamara. (hint-hint..........the draft is coming Ted!)

Online craig

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2017, 06:06:33 PM »
[
What I am saying is if Monty is our main rb, it's not ridiculous tho think he can have a 60 reception season. Does it happen often, no. Do WRs move to RB often, no. Do teams have QBs they can plug in with the talent of Rodgers, no. In fact, for our offense to run at its highest potential, that should happen.  Having Monty put stress on lbs and ss will only open up the field for Jordy and crew.

Bingo!!!

Bingo agreed.

Offline Hands

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2017, 07:53:20 AM »
It seems that Green Bay has a another TY Monty on the roster in Antwan Goodley. He had that WR, put him in the backfield, position at Baylor and was very effective. It doesn't discount the issues of another RB that can take 15carries/game.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2017, 08:00:40 AM »
It seems that Green Bay has a another TY Monty on the roster in Antwan Goodley. He had that WR, put him in the backfield, position at Baylor and was very effective. It doesn't discount the issues of another RB that can take 15carries/game.

Might want to draft a "pounder" like Connor or Hood with a 5th/6th round pick then, rather than spend $3-5M on a 1 yr prove it with Lacy.
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Offline SSG

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2017, 09:27:10 AM »


First of all, everyone and their mother knows that Peterson is not a receiving back. Peterson isn't a HOF rb because he can catch... Not even close. And I wouldn't put James White, who is right around that average, in a HOF category either. I don't think it's ridiculous for the Packers to throw to a WR that changed positions to RB 4-5 times a game. That is a huge strength and advantage the Packers possess and need to make it more of a focal point in the offense.

Of course I wouldn't put James White into that category.  He's almost worthless when being asked to run the ball and is nothing more than a 3rd down back.  WHite's never had more than 30 yards rushing in a game in his entire NFL career muchless showed what it takes to be a featured back.  Are you really going to completely ignore White's rushing ability  to lump him into David Johnson and Leveon Bell's group?

The assumption that I'm putting White in the same category as Leveon or Johnson is almost crazier than if you get 4 catches a game from the rb position, you're a HOF rb. So no, I'm not grouping white with those two.

What I am saying is if Monty is our main rb, it's not ridiculous tho think he can have a 60 reception season. Does it happen often, no. Do WRs move to RB often, no. Do teams have QBs they can plug in with the talent of Rodgers, no. In fact, for our offense to run at its highest potential, that should happen.  Having Monty put stress on lbs and ss will only open up the field for Jordy and crew.

No where did I say a 4 catch per game RB was HOFer or elite.  1000+ plus rushers that also catch the ball 4 times a game are hard to find.  A great receiver like Jamal Charles has substantially less catches per game.  Are we really "expecting" a better runner and receiver than one of the league's elite backs?  The OP didn't use James White as an example, he used David Johnson.  James White is not a featured, NFL starting RB. 

I don't think having Monty as a starting RB is going to be enough (JMO).  He's not a RB who's going to be able to manage 20 carries a game, a number he's never even come close to.  He's got just one game with over 12 carries.  You are right.  Putting a body in the backfield that is almost useless as a runner but catches over 60 balls in season isn't hard.  Those type of players fall off trees and those aren't the type of backs the OP was talking about. 

Its funny, because the offense was every bit as potent and put every bit the amount of stress on LBs with Rip leading the backfield in carries, snaps and yards.  The offense played perfectly well against Atlanta, a game in which Rip didn't even play in.  The idea that he's the only reason for the turn around on offense is false IMO. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 09:31:32 AM by SSG »
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Offline scoremore

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2017, 10:22:49 AM »
Lacy says Packers vocal about wanting him back.  Not surprised.  Sportrak says his value is at around 2.8 mil/yr which sounds exactly right to me.  I
 would have no problem bringing him back at that number.  Ideally would like them to get him under contract for 3 years.  See how it shakes out but that earlier report of Vet minimum plus incentives is way off....

Offline golfman

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #72 on: February 28, 2017, 04:17:56 PM »
I hope Lacy is allowed to walk.
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Offline pacman5252

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #73 on: February 28, 2017, 06:32:44 PM »
I'd like to have Lacy back (lower risk deal of course). Our running game was solid with him early last year and terrible until we found a small spark with a WR playing RB. The guy when healthy is a solid back. The best we've had since Green.

Offline Hands

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Re: Lacy
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2017, 07:06:35 AM »
The surgery that Lacy had didn't sound that minor to me. He could be slow/delayed in playing for a few weeks. It might be enough to chase away perspective teams, but also want to know if he is limited next year. Of course....he may be fine and starts the season on a tear. I'm not a doctor and slept at home verses at a Holiday Inn Express so what do I know.
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