June 17, 2019, 01:35:04 AM

Author Topic: 2019 Draft and beyond  (Read 5355 times)

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Offline PackerJoe

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2018, 01:00:23 PM »
So folks on the board think Perry is worth keeping.  He has played less than 15 games over the past three years!  He has averaged one tackle a game!  One tackle a game! You think he is good!  Again, the Packers tend to keep lousy, untalented, bums around and get rid of folks like Hayward, not an all pro, Hyde, an all pro, Tretter will be all pro this year.  he's making $750,000.00 a game for being a non-performing, non-showing up, non-existing resource on this team.  I have heard folks say, yeah but he holds the edge!  How many sacks has he had the last three years?  How many did he have before the big contract?  I understand the cap concerns, why didn't we get rid of him sooner and we had excess cap space!!!!  Keeping him around gives us the double whammy of a no talent, non-producing rusher who cash straps us!!!

Offline The GM

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2018, 08:12:03 PM »
So folks on the board think Perry is worth keeping.  He has played less than 15 games over the past three years!  He has averaged one tackle a game!  One tackle a game! You think he is good!  Again, the Packers tend to keep lousy, untalented, bums around and get rid of folks like Hayward, not an all pro, Hyde, an all pro, Tretter will be all pro this year.  he's making $750,000.00 a game for being a non-performing, non-showing up, non-existing resource on this team.  I have heard folks say, yeah but he holds the edge!  How many sacks has he had the last three years?  How many did he have before the big contract?  I understand the cap concerns, why didn't we get rid of him sooner and we had excess cap space!!!!  Keeping him around gives us the double whammy of a no talent, non-producing rusher who cash straps us!!!
Agree with this.  I dont think they can cut because of the cap hit, clearly one of the most boneheaded signings of the Thompson era.

Offline Shinesman

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2018, 10:42:48 PM »
So folks on the board think Perry is worth keeping.  He has played less than 15 games over the past three years!  He has averaged one tackle a game!  One tackle a game! You think he is good!  Again, the Packers tend to keep lousy, untalented, bums around and get rid of folks like Hayward, not an all pro, Hyde, an all pro, Tretter will be all pro this year.  he's making $750,000.00 a game for being a non-performing, non-showing up, non-existing resource on this team.  I have heard folks say, yeah but he holds the edge!  How many sacks has he had the last three years?  How many did he have before the big contract?  I understand the cap concerns, why didn't we get rid of him sooner and we had excess cap space!!!!  Keeping him around gives us the double whammy of a no talent, non-producing rusher who cash straps us!!!
Agree with this.  I dont think they can cut because of the cap hit, clearly one of the most boneheaded signings of the Thompson era.

The theme of the Thompson era was to draft guys and play them at a different position. Probably a big reason for poor performance. Randall comes to mind, he played safety in college. Rarely can a safety convert to CB, a CB must have quickness in space and acceleration as a top attribute. Safeties are normally safeties because their acceleration and change of direction is not sufficient to be a CB. We trade him to Cleveland, and he is playing pretty well, at his natural position I believe.

We always draft tackles and try to make them guards. Doesnt end up working very much. Why not draft a damn guard to play guard? And stop resigning guys who have never played a whole season and have recurring issues, and have clearly been overrated most of their career (Bulaga).

We drafted Sherrod, who was known to  be a project. You dont draft projects in the first round, unless by project, you mean someone who is so athletically superior that improving their skills means making them all-pros in a year or two. Someone like Clowney.

Perry, a natural 3-4 DE, forced to play OLB..... again, one season of decent production.

Rollins, a guy who had I think 2 years of playing football?  Maybe you take him in round 5-7, not round 2.

We took an often injured guy in college. He has yet to finish a whole season for us.

We draft plodding ILBs like Jake Ryan or that kid from ASU a few years back, then wonder why they cant perform in a defense that requires faster middle linebackers to track the ball carrier and take on blockers at the line in pursuit.

We flat out ignored the most important position in our defense for years!!!! What else do you need to know about our management other than that.

I remember how many people here used to scoff at the thought of drafting the actual player you needed instead of a guy who could play two spots in college. But if the guy is average at two spots in college, hes really nothing in the NFL. Versatility means nothing if you get owned by all the different opposition you have to take on at those positions. This is the price you pay for drafting like you want permanent backups instead of impactful players.

This front office has a lot of work to do, to undo the mistakes in the past 5 years. We just signed a new scouting director if the rumors are true, so maybe our draft board will finally be stacked properly. I'm hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2018, 06:03:14 AM »

The theme of the Thompson era was to draft guys and play them at a different position. Probably a big reason for poor performance. Randall comes to mind, he played safety in college. Rarely can a safety convert to CB, a CB must have quickness in space and acceleration as a top attribute. Safeties are normally safeties because their acceleration and change of direction is not sufficient to be a CB. We trade him to Cleveland, and he is playing pretty well, at his natural position I believe.

We always draft tackles and try to make them guards. Doesnt end up working very much. Why not draft a damn guard to play guard? And stop resigning guys who have never played a whole season and have recurring issues, and have clearly been overrated most of their career (Bulaga).

We drafted Sherrod, who was known to  be a project. You dont draft projects in the first round, unless by project, you mean someone who is so athletically superior that improving their skills means making them all-pros in a year or two. Someone like Clowney.

Perry, a natural 3-4 DE, forced to play OLB..... again, one season of decent production.

Rollins, a guy who had I think 2 years of playing football?  Maybe you take him in round 5-7, not round 2.

We took an often injured guy in college. He has yet to finish a whole season for us.

We draft plodding ILBs like Jake Ryan or that kid from ASU a few years back, then wonder why they cant perform in a defense that requires faster middle linebackers to track the ball carrier and take on blockers at the line in pursuit.

We flat out ignored the most important position in our defense for years!!!! What else do you need to know about our management other than that.

I remember how many people here used to scoff at the thought of drafting the actual player you needed instead of a guy who could play two spots in college. But if the guy is average at two spots in college, hes really nothing in the NFL. Versatility means nothing if you get owned by all the different opposition you have to take on at those positions. This is the price you pay for drafting like you want permanent backups instead of impactful players.

This front office has a lot of work to do, to undo the mistakes in the past 5 years. We just signed a new scouting director if the rumors are true, so maybe our draft board will finally be stacked properly. I'm hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.

you made a couple of good points with Randall playing CB rather than Safety and the slowness of Ryan. Bradford was an edge rusher who didn't cut it at edge, so they tried him at ILB and that failed as well............just a failed pick in general.

But you went off the rails with your comment about converting OT's into G's.

At draft time there are numerous OT's that are projected at G in the NFL because they lack the proper dimensions/size and athleticism to make it as OT's in the NFL. Many of them convert to G and have successful NFL careers and GB has done that with several over the years. Darryn Colledge, Josh Sitton, and TJ Lang were all OT's in college but moved to G in the NFL. Currently Lane Taylor is another example of converting a college OT to G in the NFL. He had a down year this year, but he was also nagged by several injuries. I hope he bounces back next year.

You could have added converting WR's to TE's as well, and cited Bostick as an example........but I digress.

Your argument was valid until you went a bridge too far on converting OT's to G's. Most teams do it every year.

Offline Shinesman

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2018, 02:06:34 PM »

The theme of the Thompson era was to draft guys and play them at a different position. Probably a big reason for poor performance. Randall comes to mind, he played safety in college. Rarely can a safety convert to CB, a CB must have quickness in space and acceleration as a top attribute. Safeties are normally safeties because their acceleration and change of direction is not sufficient to be a CB. We trade him to Cleveland, and he is playing pretty well, at his natural position I believe.

We always draft tackles and try to make them guards. Doesnt end up working very much. Why not draft a damn guard to play guard? And stop resigning guys who have never played a whole season and have recurring issues, and have clearly been overrated most of their career (Bulaga).

We drafted Sherrod, who was known to  be a project. You dont draft projects in the first round, unless by project, you mean someone who is so athletically superior that improving their skills means making them all-pros in a year or two. Someone like Clowney.

Perry, a natural 3-4 DE, forced to play OLB..... again, one season of decent production.

Rollins, a guy who had I think 2 years of playing football?  Maybe you take him in round 5-7, not round 2.

We took an often injured guy in college. He has yet to finish a whole season for us.

We draft plodding ILBs like Jake Ryan or that kid from ASU a few years back, then wonder why they cant perform in a defense that requires faster middle linebackers to track the ball carrier and take on blockers at the line in pursuit.

We flat out ignored the most important position in our defense for years!!!! What else do you need to know about our management other than that.

I remember how many people here used to scoff at the thought of drafting the actual player you needed instead of a guy who could play two spots in college. But if the guy is average at two spots in college, hes really nothing in the NFL. Versatility means nothing if you get owned by all the different opposition you have to take on at those positions. This is the price you pay for drafting like you want permanent backups instead of impactful players.

This front office has a lot of work to do, to undo the mistakes in the past 5 years. We just signed a new scouting director if the rumors are true, so maybe our draft board will finally be stacked properly. I'm hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.

you made a couple of good points with Randall playing CB rather than Safety and the slowness of Ryan. Bradford was an edge rusher who didn't cut it at edge, so they tried him at ILB and that failed as well............just a failed pick in general.

But you went off the rails with your comment about converting OT's into G's.

At draft time there are numerous OT's that are projected at G in the NFL because they lack the proper dimensions/size and athleticism to make it as OT's in the NFL. Many of them convert to G and have successful NFL careers and GB has done that with several over the years. Darryn Colledge, Josh Sitton, and TJ Lang were all OT's in college but moved to G in the NFL. Currently Lane Taylor is another example of converting a college OT to G in the NFL. He had a down year this year, but he was also nagged by several injuries. I hope he bounces back next year.

You could have added converting WR's to TE's as well, and cited Bostick as an example........but I digress.

Your argument was valid until you went a bridge too far on converting OT's to G's. Most teams do it every year.

Guards are roadgraders, if someone hasn't been playing that way, it's tough to adjust to it at the highest level of competition. I agree it's an easier transition than most others but it's still something of a higher gamble than drafting a guard.

I thought they drafted Bradford with the intention of moving him inside because he lacked size. I didnt even touch on Thornton, who was a complete reach.
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Offline marklawrence

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2018, 06:27:10 PM »
Guards are road graders unless your ol does zone blocking, in which case sideways movement is critical. And that's why we convert ot to g.
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Offline Shinesman

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2018, 09:39:41 PM »
Guards are road graders unless your ol does zone blocking, in which case sideways movement is critical. And that's why we convert ot to g.

Well I guess we are bad at converting. Anyone running not named Aaron Jones had a tough time finding openings consistently.
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Offline PackerJoe

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2018, 07:27:50 AM »
As of this am, we have the 14th pick and NO.  So, I don't wish ill will on them, but I'm kind of hoping they lose their first playoff game.  That will give us another pick in the 20-24 range.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2018, 07:44:44 AM »
As of this am, we have the 14th pick and NO.  So, I don't wish ill will on them, but I'm kind of hoping they lose their first playoff game.  That will give us another pick in the 20-24 range.

I read this morning that #25 is the best to hope for from Saints pick.


I stand corrected. #27 is best to hope for.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/23/reassessing-packers-draft-pick-positioning-after-win-over-jets/
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 07:47:23 AM by dannobanano »

Offline PackerJoe

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2019, 06:17:07 PM »
I read somewhere our cap space is currently at plus 50mil.  Get rid of Mathews and Cobb that is another 20 mil, get rid of perry after june 1, that's another 5 mil.  Not that I want to spend that much, but oh yeah I do.  Dee Ford and Earl Thomas come to mind along with Golden Tate.  Maybe a guard like Chance WarmacK.  That might help this team out as long as they draft the right people!

Defense comes first and I don't want to see a wr drafted til rd 4! 

Offline RT

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2019, 07:25:11 PM »
I read somewhere our cap space is currently at plus 50mil.  Get rid of Mathews and Cobb that is another 20 mil, get rid of perry after june 1, that's another 5 mil.  Not that I want to spend that much, but oh yeah I do.  Dee Ford and Earl Thomas come to mind along with Golden Tate.  Maybe a guard like Chance WarmacK.  That might help this team out as long as they draft the right people!

Defense comes first and I don't want to see a wr drafted til rd 4!

Here, please educate yourself a little bit.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

I started a thread, 'Who's under contract' and it list all the players currently counting against the salary cap. Matthews and Cobb are both free agents, so there is no 'another 20 mil' by not bringing them back for next season.   
 

Offline footballdad

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2019, 03:43:09 AM »
I read somewhere our cap space is currently at plus 50mil.  Get rid of Mathews and Cobb that is another 20 mil, get rid of perry after june 1, that's another 5 mil.  Not that I want to spend that much, but oh yeah I do.  Dee Ford and Earl Thomas come to mind along with Golden Tate.  Maybe a guard like Chance WarmacK.  That might help this team out as long as they draft the right people!

Defense comes first and I don't want to see a wr drafted til rd 4!

Ok. I'm confused. Matthews and Cobb are free agents. They are gone. Cap space is in the 30's, not 50 million.

In another thread, just yesterday you said all of the receivers drafted last year were "garbage" and that you wanted them to draft "good" receivers this year. Now you do not want any drafted until round 4. Oooooohkayyyy...........

Offline PackerJoe

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2019, 06:17:56 PM »
I think this team has far deeper issues on defense than offense.  So we drafted three WR's last year, none of them lit up the world and in fact costs us a few games.   Those picks could've been used better somewhere else, and I still don't understand a punter in the 5th rd. , water over the dam!  I'm not at all impressed with the WR's coming out this year being touted as 1st and 2nd rd talents.  I think there are some very good WR's coming out who will be available in rds 3-6.  Dare I say, much better than the piule of heap we got last year in the draft.  I do like Kumerow who wasn't drafted.  Hope he stays healthy!!!

My choices (Boykin from Notre Dame - Big body, chain mover, deadly in the red zone 6'6" 245 lbs.  now tell me who is going to guard this monster?)  LED ND in TD's YAC, Receptions, etc.  Last guy to do that at ND is in the hall of fame and played 16 years with the Raiders!

Terry Godwin, Georgia probably the best route runner coming out.  Was injured so he might be off the radar screen a bit, so if we are lucky he will drop and maybe into our hands.  Very similar to Donald Driver.

Johnson from Buffalo is a very good route receiver and not afraid to go over the middle.  I think we had about ten passes caught over the middle by a wide receiver last year and Adams had ten of them.  This used to be one of our strengths, now it is a weakness and other teams know it.  We are being restricted by what we run on offense because of this.   


Offline Uncle Josh

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2019, 05:25:06 AM »
PackerJoe, I don't know what you expect from a rookie receiver, but both MVS and ESB had excellent first years. Valdes-Scantling is probably our fastest player from scrimmage, and it wouldn't surprise me if he became our #2 boundary receiver before season's end. At 6' 4", 206 and running a 4.37, what's not to like?? -- those are 1st round measurables we stole at the end of round 5. He's been training with Randy Moss and if he pick up any of his game, we'll have the steal of the 2018 draft. Similarly, Equanimeous St. Brown stands 6' 4 3/4", 214 and runs a 4.48-- rare size and speed to be found all the way down into round 6! Many scouts had him ranked as high as round 2! He showed excellent hands and seemed to find open spots over the middle-- something we've been missing for awhile. He will no doubt challenge MVS for that starter spot(as Geronimo Allison is not the long-term answer there). Two absolute steals high on my board that I was overjoyed to see us get! Now I'll admit I never wanted J'Mon Moore in the fourth round-- and he's struggled quite a bit and is no lock to even make the team-- but he does possess very good route running ability and definitely has a chance. You mentioned Miles Boykin being 6' 6", 245. Try 6' 2 5/8", 228. A slight difference. His 4.6 40 isn't all that impressive, either. I don't know what you expect from a rookie wideout-- but both Valdes-Scantling and EQ surpassed expectations and almost every Packers rookie WR EVER, in fact. Your grasp on reality may be slightly skewed as it pertains to drafted WRs.

Offline claymaker

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Re: 2019 Draft and beyond
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2019, 08:31:04 AM »
I think this team has far deeper issues on defense than offense.  So we drafted three WR's last year, none of them lit up the world and in fact costs us a few games.   Those picks could've been used better somewhere else, and I still don't understand a punter in the 5th rd. , water over the dam!  I'm not at all impressed with the WR's coming out this year being touted as 1st and 2nd rd talents.  I think there are some very good WR's coming out who will be available in rds 3-6.  Dare I say, much better than the piule of heap we got last year in the draft.  I do like Kumerow who wasn't drafted.  Hope he stays healthy!!!

My choices (Boykin from Notre Dame - Big body, chain mover, deadly in the red zone 6'6" 245 lbs.  now tell me who is going to guard this monster?)  LED ND in TD's YAC, Receptions, etc.  Last guy to do that at ND is in the hall of fame and played 16 years with the Raiders!

Terry Godwin, Georgia probably the best route runner coming out.  Was injured so he might be off the radar screen a bit, so if we are lucky he will drop and maybe into our hands.  Very similar to Donald Driver.

Johnson from Buffalo is a very good route receiver and not afraid to go over the middle.  I think we had about ten passes caught over the middle by a wide receiver last year and Adams had ten of them.  This used to be one of our strengths, now it is a weakness and other teams know it.  We are being restricted by what we run on offense because of this.   

Considering both Cobb and Allison went down for most of the year MVS and Brown were great choices and paid off instantly. Even Moore helped ease the burden of injuries to the position. Defenses also kept an eye on MVS throughout year and respected his speed. It's true they didn't set the world on fire as rookies, but name another position(s) in those spots that would have been more positively impacted from last year's draft. They will need to address the slot WR, but imagine what the WR position would have looked like without those three players last year.