September 19, 2019, 06:04:48 PM

Author Topic: A question and random thoughts  (Read 3157 times)

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Online claymaker

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2019, 01:26:09 PM »
I feel ILB is a need because of a lack of depth and Martinez is a free agent next year. Burks is unproven and had some injury issues last season. Just looking ahead and doing the "what if"?

Well, I don't think Martinez is going anywhere. Depth sure, but when I hear "huge need" I think the position needs a total rework. I don't buy the unproven mantle either. Burks was a 3rd round pick and a guy they traded up for, so there's plenty there to place a fair bet on. All things considered, ILB is not a premier position in any defense these days. The only thing that makes it a valuable position is if you find that one guy like Kuechly or Bobby Wagner. More of them are coming out of college now, however, most them are not Luke Kuechly or Bobby Wagner, they're glorified DBs who struggle to maintain the bulk needed.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 01:26:58 PM by claymaker »

Offline marklawrence

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2019, 03:26:23 PM »
hysterical censs2 hysterical hysterical

Must you always be provocative?

We don't moderate this board. However, if your karma gets to -100 again, there will be more karmic consequences.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 03:33:46 PM by marklawrence »
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Offline LMG

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2019, 03:44:17 PM »
My question - not knocking he pick - why Jenkins over McCoy?

Going to be tough without a 4th round pick. Not that Gute has not been doing it, but now would seem to be the time to look for athletes.

Guys I would like to see added today:

Foster Moreau TE - athletic blocking TE with some skills as a receiver.
Justin Hollins OLB - East/West Shrine game defensive MVP.
Jordan Brown CB - good size, FCS cover corner.
Bryce Love RB - coming off surgery. Would be a great part of a rotation.

ILB is a huge need. Cannot draft what is not there. Would like to see Wilson, Barton, or Burr-Kirven but all will probably go in the 4th. RT has identified several guys who are late round possibilities or UDFA. Also think there is a possibility Hollins could be converted to ILB, if not, he could be a good situational pass rusher.

Not entirely sure why you believe ILB is a huge need. Martinez is one of the better ILBs in the NFL. Very productive and instinctual and not a total liability in coverage. Supplanting him with a rookie even an athletically gifted one like Bush or White would be difficult. Those type of coverage LBs are seldom 3 down players. While Deon Bucannon is good in coverage he is quite terrible in run defense. Can't take on blockers and only thing he can do is blitz or shoot a gap, which isn't what you want in run defense. Traditional ILBs still have a place on the field and even though you may have to sacrifice speed, you can't afford to be light in the pants either. Especially, with the move to nickel being a base defense, at least to me, you still need a guy off the ball who can bang with the big boys. In my view he's a valuable piece on defense and not someone they should be hoping to replace.


Totally agree Clay.
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Offline Shinesman

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2019, 01:11:00 AM »
hysterical censs2 hysterical hysterical

Must you always be provocative?

We don't moderate this board. However, if your karma gets to -100 again, there will be more karmic consequences.

So if the same couple.people continually smite me that's enough to get me in trouble?
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Offline B

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2019, 01:54:09 AM »
hysterical censs2 hysterical hysterical

Must you always be provocative?

We don't moderate this board. However, if your karma gets to -100 again, there will be more karmic consequences.

So if the same couple.people continually smite me that's enough to get me in trouble?

Chill brother, try to lean into discussion without getting provoked or provoking.

The Packers just completed the draft with a heavy emphasis on athleticism. Seemed like a decent balance between addressing team needs and best player available. Now it is up to the coaches to maximize players talent and weave together a cohesive team to make a run in 2019/20.

Seems like there should be plenty of room for discussion without sliding into conversation killing pissing matches.

A new era has begun, I'm looking forward to the journey and results that will follow. I, for one, am cautiously optimistic.
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They just ran out of time.
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Online ricky

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2019, 04:25:50 AM »

The Packers just completed the draft with a heavy emphasis on athleticism. Seemed like a decent balance between addressing team needs and best player available. Now it is up to the coaches to maximize players talent and weave together a cohesive team to make a run in 2019/20.

A new era has begun, I'm looking forward to the journey and results that will follow. I, for one, am cautiously optimistic.

Took the liberty of deleting things I'm not really interested in, and got to the gist of your post, B. This strikes the right chord between wild optimism and abject pessimism. This was ineed a draft of "BPA/need/guys we really like" with the first four picks. And after some initiall shock at the selection of Gary, these guys could well be important additions, with at least two starters/heavily rotated players in those picks. After that, the team seemed to be looking for speed/athleticism, something this team lacked the last few years. Now, they need these guys to show some "come get it" attitude, some swagger, and the ability to make some impact plays, especially with turnovers. And, as always, expect one or two guys to emerge from the FA's as solid football players.
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Offline The GM

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2019, 07:32:05 AM »
I thought they had a good draft, but the test with everyone will be in the Fall.  New era, new approach.  Im looking forward to seeing a team tailored to its strengths opposed to the square peg in round hole approach.  Among other things, I wouldve used Cobb a lot differently than they did, but that's water under the bridge now. Really looking forward to the changes and what the season will bring. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 07:33:35 AM by The GM »

Offline PackerJoe

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2019, 12:04:56 PM »
My initial reaction to the whole draft was what the hell is the brass doing?  I calmed down later two days and said hey we can put Gary into the rotation and Savage seems to be a beast.  I would've liked for us to move up and go get Allen, White or oliver. I did not like moving up for savage, especially with Seattle who got our two 4th rd picks, then traded our 30th and got two more first rd. picks.  I never like giving an nfc playoff opponent more picks and talent to work with.  Savage is good, but he was a projected late 2nd rd pick.  And if he was off the board, there were plenty of other safeties we could have drafted.  I was hoping for AJ Brown in the second, he was one of the few WR's I liked along with Boykin who went to the Ravens in Rd. 3.  Liked the OL pick, was hoping for 1 more.  My two favorite big ten guys McGovern and Jordan were gone by the time we picked in rd. 3.   

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2019, 07:29:57 AM »
Didn't like Edge Rashan Gary, pre-draft. Looked into him much more after the Packers took him and I am much happier now than I was. Current projection, better than either of the Smiths (in 2 years).

Loved the FS Darnell Savage pick. I was banging the drum hard pre-draft, for a FS that could play single high - we got the best one in the draft for that (and he has versatility to go with it). 2x 4ths given up is a lot, but it is what it is, if you like a guy enough, you go get him.

Like the C Elgton Jenkins pick. Not sexy, with interesting receivers still on the board, but rock solid, gives a credible OC backup and could be a starter this year at guard. Strong, agile, smart, a perfect fit for the outside zone run system LaFleur uses.

Loved the TE Jace Sternberger pick, the one pick (of the ones they took) that I had tagged the Packers to take. Packers timed him at 4.66 in the 40 (was 4.75 at the combine), a guy who is just so silky smooth running his routes.

Of the later picks, the best fit was RB Dexter Williams. Perfect for LaFleur. Gut instinct says 3-4 guys are successes with a starter/strong rotational future. That is a good to very good draft, especially if you can get a little from the others. I'm ho-hum about Keke, Hollman and Summers, they'll have to do something in TC to excite me.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 07:32:20 AM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline Gregg

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2019, 09:56:28 AM »
As they say, there is no accounting a draft for three years.

 But I think it was an above average draft. 

Gary probably is the key.  If it had been me, I would have traded up for Hockenson.  Because he is an all around TE,  an excellent blocker.  With him, you can play a two TE offense and  that usually keeps the defense in their base set up.  But with Hockenson, that does not disguise a four receiver set because he can block and therefore you can run out of it.  But he is a good enough receiver that he can beat linebackers.  He isn't quite Gronk, but he is as close as you get in this draft.  BB used the two TE set for that purpose and if you have a RB who can catch, it is quite effective.

But clearly, the Pack went for defense like they did in FA.  And I think overall, they did OK.  In Savage, and the kid from Toledo they have speed to burn in the secondary.  They might have even got some good value picks like Summers and the kid from Texas A and M.

I wonder why they did not take a slot guy though?  But I did like the pick of Williams at RB.  He should help.  Tough, strong runner with some wiggle.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 09:58:04 AM by Gregg »

Offline marklawrence

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2019, 03:54:34 PM »
I don't think Gary is an edge.

Pettine likes to generate pressure up the middle, and Gary is much better at than than as an OLB.

I believe we're going to see him almost exclusively inside.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2019, 06:26:39 PM »
Let's see what he's got before we go making predictions.

Things like this, along with the final 53 man roster, draft grades, and the 2019 season W-L record are nothing more than fantasy here on the last day of April.

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2019, 04:53:40 AM »
Savage is good, but he was a projected late 2nd rd pick.  And if he was off the board, there were plenty of other safeties we could have drafted.

Savage was projected by sites like Drafttek as a late 3rd-4th pick early in the draft process. As the pundits refined their boards, heard whispers fro scouts etc, Savage was very quickly bumped up to a second round pick. Getting closer to draft day when there are more big boards up from the better talent evaluators, by then Savage was an upper 2nd and (depending on the board) a late first. He is said to have had a fast rise right in the last couple of weeks before the draft.

Remember this is all media stuff. I doubt very much that GMs team boards moved much. Gutekunst said he KNEW Savage was going before his pick at #30. That isn't something you are likely to say if you are only projecting another teams pick. I think that after the draft he (or Pettine) talked to the Ravens (Pettine spent six years with the Ravens, so he'll have contacts there) and had his thinking confirmed by them. He must have had a clue the Ravens wanted Savage before the draft and moved up to get him before Baltimore did (who then immediately traded back). If i remember correctly I think it was said that two teams wanted Savage in round one.

So, to summarise Savage was indeed a 'late 2nd' at one point, going by media big boards, but the real boards, the teams boards, had him higher, and the media boards were slow to get in step with reality. I can understand if PackerJoe doesn't like Savage. I can understand if he doesn't think he is worth the 21st pick, but let us stamp on any idea that this was some sort of reach pick and that he could have been obtained later.

As I have said elsewhere, if the Packers wanted just a decent decent FS, they could have taken Adderley at #44, or Gardner Johnson at #75. they didn't want that, they wanted Savage and were working the phones to move for him, right after the Gary pick was made. When they moved up for Savage the other good quality FS guys (Thompson, CGJ, Adderley, Thornton) were all on the board. THEY COULD EASILY HAVE WAITED. They chose not to, which tells you everything you need to know what they thought about him. He was specifically targeted and the move up to get him was made because it was needed to secure him.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 05:06:20 AM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2019, 06:27:16 AM »
Don't forget Packers Director of Football Operations, Milt Hendrickson, just came to Green Bay from Baltimore's personnel department on January 24th of this year.

He would have been even more tuned in to the Ravens than Pettine.

Also, it was rumored that there was a second team, in addition to the Ravens, that had designs on Savage in the 1st round.


Ps..............I'll add this from an article I just read at
https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/01/packers-morning-buzz-offensive-line-2020-draft-priority/3620482002/

"The MMQB's Albert Breer talks about why Mike Pettine wanted Darnell Savage in his 10 post-draft thoughts:
The Packers’ deal up from 21 to 30 for S Darnell Savage in the first round turned some heads, mainly because it was unclear who they were concerned about taking him. The Ravens (then at 22) just signed Earl Thomas, the Texans (at 23) were always taking a tackle, and the Raiders’ affection (at 24) for Josh Jacobs was no secret.
But here’s the thing: Savage was more highly thought of in league circles than most thought. Add that to the fact that defensive coordinator Mike Pettine is known for being particular about players—he has a smaller, more refined list in who he wants—and you can understand GM Brian Gutekunst’s aggression. So what’s Savage as a player? One veteran evaluator I talked to Monday saw him as a Rodney McLeod or Antoine Bethea type of player, a free safety with the ability to play nickel corner, too, which is pretty valuable in today’s NFL."
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 06:42:35 AM by dannobanano »

Offline Hands

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Re: A question and random thoughts
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2019, 07:29:35 AM »
My last post didn't go through....it was the best ever! I'll try to duplicate the effort.

Savage was selected, I suspect, because he was the BPA and fit a need for the Packers-FS. To say the Ravens didn't want him because they signed Earl Thomas is crap. They traded down immediately after the selection so that tells us more with their actions then personnel move opinions by an amateur pundit. 

I don't know if Jenkins is better than McCoy. I do know Green Bay hired a coach from MS. St. and if anyone knew Jenkins...he would.

I appreciate this subject because it brings about some hypocrisy in people who are draft experts. They are always saying take the BPA. So during all the mock drafts they had Gary going to: Giants, Detroit, and Buffalo all of which picked before Green Bay. Yet when Green Bay took him, it was why him? They brought in two edge guys so why go with Gary? Maybe because he was the BPA. You can't go extremes, but also believe that you can't have enough talented defenders on a team either.
Gary has talent that mirrors a player like Mack. Mack was a game changer for the Raiders and is one with the Bears. I'm sure Green Bay looked at Gary and said what if he could be our game changer? Not just any player can be that good. They have to have talent and Gary has it. Now we will see if the Packer coaches can get it out of him. 
In the land of the blind.....the one eye man is king!