November 15, 2019, 11:53:43 AM

Author Topic: Vikings paying for Cousins deal  (Read 3701 times)

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Offline Gregg

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2019, 05:35:11 PM »
RT, I don't know what you are talking about.

Fully guaranteed means just that.  It was 84 M.  If you cut him after one year, you eat about 60 million.  After two, about 30 million.

Who is going to do that?  This is not the same as other QB contracts, like Derek Carr for example. Or Colin K's was.  Just read this article.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2018/12/11/kirk-cousins-is-more-than-an-84-million-mistake-for-the-vikings/#549ffab826b5

They got further in the playoffs last year without him.

Yes, they could not even negotiate with Richardson could they?  He is one of the few DT who gets inside pressure. And they almost lost Barr.  Because they signed Barr, they will now probably lose Kyle Rudolph.  They are about 700 K under the CAP due to that contract.   To put it another way, they are number 32 in that category, meanwhile GB has about 9 million in space.  So I don't understand the comparison.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

Offline RT

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2019, 07:21:04 AM »
The article you are using to prove a point really doesn't help you. The article points out that Detroit has 'an out on Matthew Stafford’s contract with a $10 million dead money hit following the 2020 season' and that 'the Raiders could conceivably move on from Derek Carr with a $7.5 million hit'. If the Vikings decide to move on from Cousins after the 2020 season their dead money hit is......are you ready for this.....it is ....ZERO. Some how the writer of your article decided that 10M and 7.5M dead money hits are better than no cap hit at all. Is that one of those new math things?

As for your fixation about Cousins being cut, well he didn't get cut after one year and he won't get cut after two years, so there is no and won't be any dead money cap hit. The Vikings signed him for 3 years/84M, if the contract was 100% guaranteed or 0% guaranteed, at the end of 2020 the amount that the Vikings will have paid Cousins is the same amount, 84M.

Lastly, your narrative that the symptom (Cousins contract) is the cause of the disease (cap hell) doesn't add up. If his contract is the cause then why isn't every team with a high priced QB also in cap hell? Or is it just guaranteed money? Wait Russell Wilson just got 107M guaranteed, so what if they want to cut him now? They will eat 107M. Wait now, this newsflash just came in, it says that the Seahawks are not cutting Wilson. And neither is every single team that gave their QB a large amount of guaranteed money regardless of the percentage that is guaranteed. They made their bed and they will sleep in them, every single one of them.   

Offline Gregg

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2019, 07:41:55 PM »
Why do you keep on saying after the 2020 season?

I did not say that.  I said after one season, which would be now. Of course it would be zero after 2020.

The Spotrac figures do not lie.

Minnesota is up against it.  That team is made for defense.  Zimmer is a former DC and he is a good one.

They thought that somehow Mr Stats Cousins was going to get them over the hump.  By himself.

He did not.  And that is why I think the Skins did not sign him.  So now, they are trying to upgrade their offense around him, which is why they took so  many offensive players in the top half of the draft and then could not sign their number one unless Kendricks redid his deal.

We will see if Cousins will redeem himself.  Now that he has more weapons.  But if you pay 84 million for three years, plus you have players like Thielen and Rudolph, you would have thought that would be enough.  Evidently it was not.

Offline raptorman

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2019, 06:50:58 AM »
Why do you keep on saying after the 2020 season?

I did not say that.  I said after one season, which would be now. Of course it would be zero after 2020.

The Spotrac figures do not lie.

Minnesota is up against it.  That team is made for defense.  Zimmer is a former DC and he is a good one.

They thought that somehow Mr Stats Cousins was going to get them over the hump.  By himself.

He did not.  And that is why I think the Skins did not sign him.  So now, they are trying to upgrade their offense around him, which is why they took so  many offensive players in the top half of the draft and then could not sign their number one unless Kendricks redid his deal.

We will see if Cousins will redeem himself.  Now that he has more weapons.  But if you pay 84 million for three years, plus you have players like Thielen and Rudolph, you would have thought that would be enough.  Evidently it was not.
First, you assume they wanted Richardson Back.   I don't think they did. There was never and discussion that I remember about him coming back. Which is why they brought Stephonson back before Richardson even signed with the Browns.

I have a question, when in 2020 Matt Ryan has the biggest Cap hit in the NFL for QB's and if the Falcons don't win, are you going to be critical of him for not doing enough?   BTW, Cousins ridiculously stupid contract will put him in 6th position cap wise in 2020.
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Offline Gregg

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2019, 11:55:53 AM »
These are the players the Vikes lost

Key losses: DT Sheldon Richardson, C Nick Easton, RB Latavius Murray, RT Mike Remmers, G Tom Compton, S Andrew Sendejo, S George Iloka, CB Marcus Sherels

So its not just Richardson. In reality, they lost five starters. 

As per Ryan, is his contract fully guaranteed? Not that I can see.  Plus, Atlanta is not a defensive oriented team.  But there is a takeaway between the two: from USA Today

Once Kirk Cousins inked a three-year, fully guaranteed $84 million contract with Minnesota in March, it was expected that Ryan would soon after land a deal with figures that would top Cousins’.

The Cousins contract was utterly stupid.

Offline RT

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2019, 05:15:13 AM »
Gregg: That Cousins contract is so utterly stupid that the Vikings will never be able to sign the players they want to keep.

Rick Spielman: Told my beer!


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Vikings are giving veteran TE Kyle Rudolph a four-year, $36 million extension that locks him into Minnesota, per source. Rudolph not going anywhere, except back to the Vikings.

Offline raptorman

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2019, 07:39:11 AM »
These are the players the Vikes lost

Key losses: DT Sheldon Richardson, C Nick Easton, RB Latavius Murray, RT Mike Remmers, G Tom Compton, S Andrew Sendejo, S George Iloka, CB Marcus Sherels

So its not just Richardson. In reality, they lost five starters. 

As per Ryan, is his contract fully guaranteed? Not that I can see.  Plus, Atlanta is not a defensive oriented team.  But there is a takeaway between the two: from USA Today

Once Kirk Cousins inked a three-year, fully guaranteed $84 million contract with Minnesota in March, it was expected that Ryan would soon after land a deal with figures that would top Cousins’.

The Cousins contract was utterly stupid.
Actually,  Compton and Remmers were starters. And they played like crap last year. Which is why they are not longer on the Vikings.   Richardson started, But he was always only a one year deal.   The rest were not starters.  And tell me.  How has Cousins contract not allowed them to sign the people they wanted to keep? 
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Online ricky

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2019, 06:00:03 PM »
So far, the Vikings have dealt with their cap very well. But next year could be the year. Like next year might be the year the Vikes finally win a SB. Or not. The article is from PFT: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/06/15/vikings-facing-cap-issues-in-2020-too/
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Offline raptorman

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2019, 08:25:55 AM »
So far, the Vikings have dealt with their cap very well. But next year could be the year. Like next year might be the year the Vikes finally win a SB. Or not. The article is from PFT: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/06/15/vikings-facing-cap-issues-in-2020-too/
Notice they don't talk about any other teams with cap issues next year. Although 2 others are in worse shape than the Vikings.   

My 2 cents on what happens next year.   Cousins 3rd year cap is $31 million.  No, nothing says they can't renegotiate or extend the contract.  yeah it's guaranteed, But what's guaranteed?   The money.   So, if after this year the Vikings want to keep Cousins, I bet you will see them extend his contract, lower his cap hit for 2020 spread the guaranteed money over 5 years in a signing bonus.
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Offline B

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2019, 11:17:21 AM »
You are probably correct on renegotiating his contract through extension ...

Regardless, the Queens will probably be battling the Kitties for third place in the division, while the Packers and Bears slug it out for the division crown. Both will likely be in the playoffs, while Vikings coaches, players and fans once again get an early start on the off-season.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2019, 01:26:45 PM »
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/06/24/minnesota-vikings-mike-zimmer-under-pressure-produce-postseason/1413719001/


[The Vikings faced some serious cap struggles — to the point where they couldn’t sign draft picks for a bit — and some key veterans were floated on the trade market. It will be interesting to see if those accomplished players, including longtime Vikings leader Kyle Rudolph, can put that behind them once training camp opens.]

It hasn't been just Cousins contract.

The Vikes have also doled out huge contracts in the last 2 years to Barr, Thielen , Diggs, Hunter, and Rhodes.

It's tough to keep all your best players, and some of these moves may haunt MN going forward (one of the reasons they were shopping Rudolph, Rhodes and Waynes earlier this year).

Only time will tell if the Cousins signing was the wrong move, or if it was the right move. 2019 is year 2 of a 3 year deal. A lot will be revealed this year.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 01:28:09 PM by dannobanano »

Online ricky

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2019, 01:37:34 PM »
   

My 2 cents on what happens next year.   Cousins 3rd year cap is $31 million.  No, nothing says they can't renegotiate or extend the contract.  yeah it's guaranteed, But what's guaranteed?   The money.   So, if after this year the Vikings want to keep Cousins, I bet you will see them extend his contract, lower his cap hit for 2020 spread the guaranteed money over 5 years in a signing bonus.

This assumes that Cousins will want to renegotiate his contract. Because next year he'll make a GUARANTEED $31 million. He might be nice and agree to a longer term deal with less guaranteed money. But why should he? He stayed with Washington as long as they were willing to pay him the guaranteed money from the franchise tag. Then, rather than sign a longer term (non-guaranteed deal), he got the guaranteed money from Minny. If you were guaranteed that much money, would you change it to more non-guaranteed money? This would be good for the Vikes, of course. But it's not as if Cousins has been their QB for years. He is a hired gun out for the most guaranteed money he can make. And good for him for doing that.
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Offline raptorman

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2019, 05:48:17 PM »
   

My 2 cents on what happens next year.   Cousins 3rd year cap is $31 million.  No, nothing says they can't renegotiate or extend the contract.  yeah it's guaranteed, But what's guaranteed?   The money.   So, if after this year the Vikings want to keep Cousins, I bet you will see them extend his contract, lower his cap hit for 2020 spread the guaranteed money over 5 years in a signing bonus.

This assumes that Cousins will want to renegotiate his contract. Because next year he'll make a GUARANTEED $31 million. He might be nice and agree to a longer term deal with less guaranteed money. But why should he? He stayed with Washington as long as they were willing to pay him the guaranteed money from the franchise tag. Then, rather than sign a longer term (non-guaranteed deal), he got the guaranteed money from Minny. If you were guaranteed that much money, would you change it to more non-guaranteed money? This would be good for the Vikes, of course. But it's not as if Cousins has been their QB for years. He is a hired gun out for the most guaranteed money he can make. And good for him for doing that.
Your missing the point.  The guaranteed money doesn't go away.  Look at it this way.   Let's say they come to Cousins and say look, we want to do a 5 year extension, $149 million.  5 more years, 6 total.  $45 as a signing bonus and the rest as roster bonus's down the road.  With an average salary or $30 million over 6 years.   He get's an extra $14 million next year, and then the following year, it goes down as salary and say a $15 million roster bonus the next two years.   It's possible to to and keep his cap number under $30 million a year while reducing next years number to much lower.

The most he can make?   The Jet's offered him more.   
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Online ricky

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Re: Vikings paying for Cousins deal
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2019, 08:14:25 PM »
Your missing the point.  The guaranteed money doesn't go away.  Look at it this way.   Let's say they come to Cousins and say look, we want to do a 5 year extension, $149 million.  5 more years, 6 total.  $45 as a signing bonus and the rest as roster bonus's down the road.  With an average salary or $30 million over 6 years.   He get's an extra $14 million next year, and then the following year, it goes down as salary and say a $15 million roster bonus the next two years.   It's possible to to and keep his cap number under $30 million a year while reducing next years number to much lower.

The most he can make?   The Jet's offered him more.
[/quote

Cousins will make $31 million next year. Yes, he could spread that out over more years, and make the Vikes happy. Or, he could refuse to renegotiate, take the money and see who else would be dumb or desperate enough to offer him a lot of guaranteed money. Yes, he could have made more with the Jets (no offense, but I googled it to find out the details). But he was apparently only using the Jets to force other teams to increase their offers. Besides, he looked at the respective rosters and decided that the Vikings offered him a better chance at winning. He has shown himself to be more than willing to pit teams against each other to get a lot of guaranteed money, but to choose the best team that will overpay him. More power to him for being smart enough to do this. But again, why should he give up any leverage or make the contract more palatable to the team? He'll be 31 when his contract is done, and he could easily play the same game, and get another guaranteed contract with another team.

I don't think you're wrong. Your scenario might just work for a regular QB. I just don't see Cousins suddenly becoming less capitalistic so he can stay with the Vikes. They guaranteed his salary for three years. Unless they're willing to do the same for three/four more years, he'd be foolish to accept that contract.
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