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Offline Drew the Draft Guru

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Re: Top QB's in draft
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2012, 08:42:16 PM »
I see this as a very average at best QB class.

I came here to say something similar.  I'm not a big draft guy, but my impression is that scouts aren't really in love with any of the QBs in the 2013 class.

I'd be leery of Murray.  I usually try to stay away from the whole "big game" cliche stuff, but wow, Murray might be the worst big game quarterback I've ever seen.  He's got a chance to repent for it though -- the next (and last) 3 games of his college career can re-write that story.

I have mixed feelings on Murray.  Good arm and accurate but not great when it comes to reads and progressions.  Can that be taught?  maybe.

Smith is a system guy (remember Pat White), Barkley should be putting up monster numbers with those WR and RB's but he is not, Wilson and Jones are average. 

Brey looks the part and does not have much around him and is still solid but I question his attitude.

You are way, WAY oversimplifying the Geno Smith situation. Why do you compare him to Pat White? Just because they are both from West Virginia? These guys are nothing alike. Pat Smith was supposed to bring the wildcat to the NFL. I think that says a lot. Lets actually look at some stats:
Pat White (2008): 12g, 180/270 (65.7%), 1842 passing yards, 21 TD's (passing), and 7 INT's.
Geno Smith (2012): 9g, 284/399 (71.2%), 3038 passing yards, 31 TD's (passing), and 3 INT's.
Geno Smith 2012 Projections for Comparison:
12g, 379/532, 4051 passing yards, 41 TD's (passing), and 4 INT's. (All rounded to the nearest 1.)

Now please explain to me how these 2 QB's are anything close to each other, and why we should listen to your comparisons of them. The whole system is obviously being run differently to fit the QB's strengths, because White threw only 270 passes in 12 games. Smith has thrown 399 passes in only 9 games. The fact that you would compare these two to equivocate them is actually quite comical.

Reading is fundamental Drew. I said in my post that Smith is a product of the system just like White. UWV runs a spread just like Holgorsen ran as an OC at Texas Tech under Leach   White also ran a spread read system under Rich Rod.   Actually what Holgorsen runs is not that much different scheme wise to what RichbRod ran. Only real difference is Holgorsen incorporates more pass but its still a spread.

Right...so you are trying to equivocate White to Smith. You are saying that Pat White didn't do well in the NFL and only succeeded in college because of the system and this is no different than Geno Smith. I'm saying that's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too oversimplified. Just look at the stats. How can the system be basically the same when Smith is projected to throw about twice as much as White? That doesn't make any sense. Pat White was a runner and Geno Smith is a passer. Systems can be modified to fit different talent, and that is what has happened here.

You know what your biggest flaw about your argument is? You don't account for the talent of the player. If we put Aaron Rodgers on that West Virginia team does he become a system QB? I say he becomes an NFL talent that happens to be in an offensive system that puts up big numbers in college and doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL that well. That doesn't mean the talent can't translate to the NFL.

Lets see how you tip-toe around this one now. You know everybody can see right through your BS, right?

Oversimplified no.   If White had talent that translated to the NFL he would be in the league now.  He did not. His numbers were because of the system.  One thing you forget is college coaches recruit to fit their systems.  Not the other way around.  Would Rodgers be successful in WVU's system?  Maybe but Holgorsen would never recruit him there because his skill set does not fit the system.  And Pat White was drafted to run the Wildcat in the NFL?  So you waste a second round pick for a situational player taking 3 to 5 sips per game?  Please.

Reading is fundamental Packinatl. My issue isn't with that you are calling Pat White a system QB. My issue is that you are saying Geno Smith can't/won't succeed because he's in the same system that Pat White came from. My statistics show that Smith throws the ball WAY more than White ever did, Smith has a better accuracy (70+% accuracy is impressive, and as one media expert (sorry I forgot who) said it's impressive even if the QB is throwing against air), way more passing yards, and a way better TD:INT ratio.

Pat White was also only 6'0". Geno Smith is supposed to be closer to 6'3". That makes a big difference in the NFL. And you don't think Pat White was drafted to be a wildcat QB? Here's what Pat White's wikipedia says about it: "White was drafted by the Miami Dolphins with the 44th overall pick of the 2009 NFL Draft. After being drafted, Dolphins' general manager Jeff Ireland stated that White would be in competition for the starting quarterback job with Chad Pennington and Chad Henne, while also being used in the Wildcat formation (effectively making it a spread), and as a receiver." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_White_(athlete)

Never said he was in the same system.  I even made the point that  Holgorsen throws the ball more like he did with Leach at Tech.  Fact is that both systems are spread based with Smith in the shotgun just like White was.  I also look at his numbers playing better competition and his numbers are under 60% 2 or his last 4 games with 3 INTs in those games.   He does not have the speed to do it with his legs like Griffin and Newton.  Smith will struggle at the next level

Your point seems to be a moving one at this point. So now Smith is going to struggle at the next level because he's coming from a spread system kind of like what White came from just with twice as much passing (how those two systems are remotely the same is still beyond me...apparently every spread system is now basically the same) and because he's not a good enough runner? I guess pocket passers like Peyton Manning are pretty average in the NFL. The Cam Newtons of the world are really what drive the NFL, right? Wow...And yes, Smith has struggled as of late but when you look at his overall body of work he has 31 TD's to 3 INT's in 9 games, which projects to 41 TD's to 4 INT's over 12 games. I guess a better than 10:1 TD:INT ratio is far from great, though, right?
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Offline Packinatl

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Re: Top QB's in draft
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2012, 08:55:25 PM »
I see this as a very average at best QB class.

I came here to say something similar.  I'm not a big draft guy, but my impression is that scouts aren't really in love with any of the QBs in the 2013 class.

I'd be leery of Murray.  I usually try to stay away from the whole "big game" cliche stuff, but wow, Murray might be the worst big game quarterback I've ever seen.  He's got a chance to repent for it though -- the next (and last) 3 games of his college career can re-write that story.

I have mixed feelings on Murray.  Good arm and accurate but not great when it comes to reads and progressions.  Can that be taught?  maybe.

Smith is a system guy (remember Pat White), Barkley should be putting up monster numbers with those WR and RB's but he is not, Wilson and Jones are average. 

Brey looks the part and does not have much around him and is still solid but I question his attitude.

You are way, WAY oversimplifying the Geno Smith situation. Why do you compare him to Pat White? Just because they are both from West Virginia? These guys are nothing alike. Pat Smith was supposed to bring the wildcat to the NFL. I think that says a lot. Lets actually look at some stats:
Pat White (2008): 12g, 180/270 (65.7%), 1842 passing yards, 21 TD's (passing), and 7 INT's.
Geno Smith (2012): 9g, 284/399 (71.2%), 3038 passing yards, 31 TD's (passing), and 3 INT's.
Geno Smith 2012 Projections for Comparison:
12g, 379/532, 4051 passing yards, 41 TD's (passing), and 4 INT's. (All rounded to the nearest 1.)

Now please explain to me how these 2 QB's are anything close to each other, and why we should listen to your comparisons of them. The whole system is obviously being run differently to fit the QB's strengths, because White threw only 270 passes in 12 games. Smith has thrown 399 passes in only 9 games. The fact that you would compare these two to equivocate them is actually quite comical.

Reading is fundamental Drew. I said in my post that Smith is a product of the system just like White. UWV runs a spread just like Holgorsen ran as an OC at Texas Tech under Leach   White also ran a spread read system under Rich Rod.   Actually what Holgorsen runs is not that much different scheme wise to what RichbRod ran. Only real difference is Holgorsen incorporates more pass but its still a spread.

Right...so you are trying to equivocate White to Smith. You are saying that Pat White didn't do well in the NFL and only succeeded in college because of the system and this is no different than Geno Smith. I'm saying that's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too oversimplified. Just look at the stats. How can the system be basically the same when Smith is projected to throw about twice as much as White? That doesn't make any sense. Pat White was a runner and Geno Smith is a passer. Systems can be modified to fit different talent, and that is what has happened here.

You know what your biggest flaw about your argument is? You don't account for the talent of the player. If we put Aaron Rodgers on that West Virginia team does he become a system QB? I say he becomes an NFL talent that happens to be in an offensive system that puts up big numbers in college and doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL that well. That doesn't mean the talent can't translate to the NFL.

Lets see how you tip-toe around this one now. You know everybody can see right through your BS, right?

Oversimplified no.   If White had talent that translated to the NFL he would be in the league now.  He did not. His numbers were because of the system.  One thing you forget is college coaches recruit to fit their systems.  Not the other way around.  Would Rodgers be successful in WVU's system?  Maybe but Holgorsen would never recruit him there because his skill set does not fit the system.  And Pat White was drafted to run the Wildcat in the NFL?  So you waste a second round pick for a situational player taking 3 to 5 sips per game?  Please.

Reading is fundamental Packinatl. My issue isn't with that you are calling Pat White a system QB. My issue is that you are saying Geno Smith can't/won't succeed because he's in the same system that Pat White came from. My statistics show that Smith throws the ball WAY more than White ever did, Smith has a better accuracy (70+% accuracy is impressive, and as one media expert (sorry I forgot who) said it's impressive even if the QB is throwing against air), way more passing yards, and a way better TD:INT ratio.

Pat White was also only 6'0". Geno Smith is supposed to be closer to 6'3". That makes a big difference in the NFL. And you don't think Pat White was drafted to be a wildcat QB? Here's what Pat White's wikipedia says about it: "White was drafted by the Miami Dolphins with the 44th overall pick of the 2009 NFL Draft. After being drafted, Dolphins' general manager Jeff Ireland stated that White would be in competition for the starting quarterback job with Chad Pennington and Chad Henne, while also being used in the Wildcat formation (effectively making it a spread), and as a receiver." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_White_(athlete)

Never said he was in the same system.  I even made the point that  Holgorsen throws the ball more like he did with Leach at Tech.  Fact is that both systems are spread based with Smith in the shotgun just like White was.  I also look at his numbers playing better competition and his numbers are under 60% 2 or his last 4 games with 3 INTs in those games.   He does not have the speed to do it with his legs like Griffin and Newton.  Smith will struggle at the next level

Your point seems to be a moving one at this point. So now Smith is going to struggle at the next level because he's coming from a spread system kind of like what White came from just with twice as much passing (how those two systems are remotely the same is still beyond me...apparently every spread system is now basically the same) and because he's not a good enough runner? I guess pocket passers like Peyton Manning are pretty average in the NFL. The Cam Newtons of the world are really what drive the NFL, right? Wow...And yes, Smith has struggled as of late but when you look at his overall body of work he has 31 TD's to 3 INT's in 9 games, which projects to 41 TD's to 4 INT's over 12 games. I guess a better than 10:1 TD:INT ratio is far from great, though, right?

Thats my opinion of him and if you dont respect that I could really give a flying you know what. 

Yep and most spreads are the same. Shotgun formation, 2 min drill type tempo.  Multiple wide outs...   Texas Tech under Leach ran the same spread principles that Rich Rod did at WVU and Michigan...only difference is ratio run to pass....I have no idea what your comment about Manning in your last post meant or Newtons of the world driving the NFL..but whatever

Smith was great against poor defenses and competition...not so much the last 4 games
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Offline Drew the Draft Guru

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Re: Top QB's in draft
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2012, 10:20:37 PM »
I see this as a very average at best QB class.

I came here to say something similar.  I'm not a big draft guy, but my impression is that scouts aren't really in love with any of the QBs in the 2013 class.

I'd be leery of Murray.  I usually try to stay away from the whole "big game" cliche stuff, but wow, Murray might be the worst big game quarterback I've ever seen.  He's got a chance to repent for it though -- the next (and last) 3 games of his college career can re-write that story.

I have mixed feelings on Murray.  Good arm and accurate but not great when it comes to reads and progressions.  Can that be taught?  maybe.

Smith is a system guy (remember Pat White), Barkley should be putting up monster numbers with those WR and RB's but he is not, Wilson and Jones are average. 

Brey looks the part and does not have much around him and is still solid but I question his attitude.

You are way, WAY oversimplifying the Geno Smith situation. Why do you compare him to Pat White? Just because they are both from West Virginia? These guys are nothing alike. Pat Smith was supposed to bring the wildcat to the NFL. I think that says a lot. Lets actually look at some stats:
Pat White (2008): 12g, 180/270 (65.7%), 1842 passing yards, 21 TD's (passing), and 7 INT's.
Geno Smith (2012): 9g, 284/399 (71.2%), 3038 passing yards, 31 TD's (passing), and 3 INT's.
Geno Smith 2012 Projections for Comparison:
12g, 379/532, 4051 passing yards, 41 TD's (passing), and 4 INT's. (All rounded to the nearest 1.)

Now please explain to me how these 2 QB's are anything close to each other, and why we should listen to your comparisons of them. The whole system is obviously being run differently to fit the QB's strengths, because White threw only 270 passes in 12 games. Smith has thrown 399 passes in only 9 games. The fact that you would compare these two to equivocate them is actually quite comical.

Reading is fundamental Drew. I said in my post that Smith is a product of the system just like White. UWV runs a spread just like Holgorsen ran as an OC at Texas Tech under Leach   White also ran a spread read system under Rich Rod.   Actually what Holgorsen runs is not that much different scheme wise to what RichbRod ran. Only real difference is Holgorsen incorporates more pass but its still a spread.

Right...so you are trying to equivocate White to Smith. You are saying that Pat White didn't do well in the NFL and only succeeded in college because of the system and this is no different than Geno Smith. I'm saying that's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too oversimplified. Just look at the stats. How can the system be basically the same when Smith is projected to throw about twice as much as White? That doesn't make any sense. Pat White was a runner and Geno Smith is a passer. Systems can be modified to fit different talent, and that is what has happened here.

You know what your biggest flaw about your argument is? You don't account for the talent of the player. If we put Aaron Rodgers on that West Virginia team does he become a system QB? I say he becomes an NFL talent that happens to be in an offensive system that puts up big numbers in college and doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL that well. That doesn't mean the talent can't translate to the NFL.

Lets see how you tip-toe around this one now. You know everybody can see right through your BS, right?

Oversimplified no.   If White had talent that translated to the NFL he would be in the league now.  He did not. His numbers were because of the system.  One thing you forget is college coaches recruit to fit their systems.  Not the other way around.  Would Rodgers be successful in WVU's system?  Maybe but Holgorsen would never recruit him there because his skill set does not fit the system.  And Pat White was drafted to run the Wildcat in the NFL?  So you waste a second round pick for a situational player taking 3 to 5 sips per game?  Please.

Reading is fundamental Packinatl. My issue isn't with that you are calling Pat White a system QB. My issue is that you are saying Geno Smith can't/won't succeed because he's in the same system that Pat White came from. My statistics show that Smith throws the ball WAY more than White ever did, Smith has a better accuracy (70+% accuracy is impressive, and as one media expert (sorry I forgot who) said it's impressive even if the QB is throwing against air), way more passing yards, and a way better TD:INT ratio.

Pat White was also only 6'0". Geno Smith is supposed to be closer to 6'3". That makes a big difference in the NFL. And you don't think Pat White was drafted to be a wildcat QB? Here's what Pat White's wikipedia says about it: "White was drafted by the Miami Dolphins with the 44th overall pick of the 2009 NFL Draft. After being drafted, Dolphins' general manager Jeff Ireland stated that White would be in competition for the starting quarterback job with Chad Pennington and Chad Henne, while also being used in the Wildcat formation (effectively making it a spread), and as a receiver." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_White_(athlete)

Never said he was in the same system.  I even made the point that  Holgorsen throws the ball more like he did with Leach at Tech.  Fact is that both systems are spread based with Smith in the shotgun just like White was.  I also look at his numbers playing better competition and his numbers are under 60% 2 or his last 4 games with 3 INTs in those games.   He does not have the speed to do it with his legs like Griffin and Newton.  Smith will struggle at the next level

Your point seems to be a moving one at this point. So now Smith is going to struggle at the next level because he's coming from a spread system kind of like what White came from just with twice as much passing (how those two systems are remotely the same is still beyond me...apparently every spread system is now basically the same) and because he's not a good enough runner? I guess pocket passers like Peyton Manning are pretty average in the NFL. The Cam Newtons of the world are really what drive the NFL, right? Wow...And yes, Smith has struggled as of late but when you look at his overall body of work he has 31 TD's to 3 INT's in 9 games, which projects to 41 TD's to 4 INT's over 12 games. I guess a better than 10:1 TD:INT ratio is far from great, though, right?

Thats my opinion of him and if you dont respect that I could really give a flying you know what. 

Yep and most spreads are the same. Shotgun formation, 2 min drill type tempo.  Multiple wide outs...   Texas Tech under Leach ran the same spread principles that Rich Rod did at WVU and Michigan...only difference is ratio run to pass....I have no idea what your comment about Manning in your last post meant or Newtons of the world driving the NFL..but whatever

Smith was great against poor defenses and competition...not so much the last 4 games

Why would we go 4 games back and not 5 games back? Is Texas not good competition or something? Or is it because you are cherry-picking? Lets look at the last 5 games as that Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas St, TCU, and Oklahoma St, and for your benefit it excludes Smith's 45/51 (88.2%), 656 passing yard, 8 TD, 0 INT game against Baylor, which I know you desperately want to exclude. Here's Geno Smith's stats over the last 5 games:
5g, 143/230 (62.2%). 1,310 passing yards, 11 passing TD's, and 3 INT's. That's still almost a 4:1 TD:INT ratio which isn't too shabby. 1,310 yards over 5 games would be about 3,144 yards if it was stretched over 12 games. That's not that bad, either. I think you are oversimplifying the QB argument by counting Smith out because of his system without looking at other things, and I think you overstating just how bad Geno Smith has played lately. That's good competition over the last 5 weeks and sure his production has dropped but that was to be expected. It's UWV's defense that is mainly to blame for most of the losses. I mean, Geno Smith and Co. put together 70 points against Baylor and won by 1 score. They put 34 points up against Oklahoma St and got blown out. In the end, Geno Smith does have that system QB label, but he's put up enough stats to show that people need to look beyond that. The guy has put up 399 passes and only 3 were INT. That's a 0.75% (or 0.0075) INT rate. That's pretty dang good by any standard. He's also listed as 6'3" which gives him some breathing room over the 6'2" measurement, whereas, guys like Barkley, Wilson, and Murray will really be cutting it close or under. Geno Smith is in the 1st round conversation and for good reason, and he has done enough to deserve a closer look than what system he is playing in.
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Offline Terranimal

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Re: Top QB's in draft
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2012, 11:24:03 PM »
UGHHHHHHH another thread hi-jacked! Started off good and then bam...

sorry golfman...you started a great thread....

Offline Drew the Draft Guru

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Re: Top QB's in draft
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2012, 11:42:50 PM »
UGHHHHHHH another thread hi-jacked! Started off good and then bam...

sorry golfman...you started a great thread....

How is anything being hijacked? This thread was about the top QB's, was it not? Geno Smith is a top QB, is it not? So yeah, I guess it got hijacked by relevant information...well until people started complaining about threads being hijacked.
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Offline Packinatl

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Re: Top QB's in draft
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2012, 06:58:42 AM »
nm
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 07:04:44 AM by Packinatl »
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Offline Packinatl

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Re: Top QB's in draft
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2012, 07:18:49 AM »
I see this as a very average at best QB class.

I came here to say something similar.  I'm not a big draft guy, but my impression is that scouts aren't really in love with any of the QBs in the 2013 class.

I'd be leery of Murray.  I usually try to stay away from the whole "big game" cliche stuff, but wow, Murray might be the worst big game quarterback I've ever seen.  He's got a chance to repent for it though -- the next (and last) 3 games of his college career can re-write that story.

I have mixed feelings on Murray.  Good arm and accurate but not great when it comes to reads and progressions.  Can that be taught?  maybe.

Smith is a system guy (remember Pat White), Barkley should be putting up monster numbers with those WR and RB's but he is not, Wilson and Jones are average. 

Brey looks the part and does not have much around him and is still solid but I question his attitude.

You are way, WAY oversimplifying the Geno Smith situation. Why do you compare him to Pat White? Just because they are both from West Virginia? These guys are nothing alike. Pat Smith was supposed to bring the wildcat to the NFL. I think that says a lot. Lets actually look at some stats:
Pat White (2008): 12g, 180/270 (65.7%), 1842 passing yards, 21 TD's (passing), and 7 INT's.
Geno Smith (2012): 9g, 284/399 (71.2%), 3038 passing yards, 31 TD's (passing), and 3 INT's.
Geno Smith 2012 Projections for Comparison:
12g, 379/532, 4051 passing yards, 41 TD's (passing), and 4 INT's. (All rounded to the nearest 1.)

Now please explain to me how these 2 QB's are anything close to each other, and why we should listen to your comparisons of them. The whole system is obviously being run differently to fit the QB's strengths, because White threw only 270 passes in 12 games. Smith has thrown 399 passes in only 9 games. The fact that you would compare these two to equivocate them is actually quite comical.

Reading is fundamental Drew. I said in my post that Smith is a product of the system just like White. UWV runs a spread just like Holgorsen ran as an OC at Texas Tech under Leach   White also ran a spread read system under Rich Rod.   Actually what Holgorsen runs is not that much different scheme wise to what RichbRod ran. Only real difference is Holgorsen incorporates more pass but its still a spread.

Right...so you are trying to equivocate White to Smith. You are saying that Pat White didn't do well in the NFL and only succeeded in college because of the system and this is no different than Geno Smith. I'm saying that's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too oversimplified. Just look at the stats. How can the system be basically the same when Smith is projected to throw about twice as much as White? That doesn't make any sense. Pat White was a runner and Geno Smith is a passer. Systems can be modified to fit different talent, and that is what has happened here.

You know what your biggest flaw about your argument is? You don't account for the talent of the player. If we put Aaron Rodgers on that West Virginia team does he become a system QB? I say he becomes an NFL talent that happens to be in an offensive system that puts up big numbers in college and doesn't necessarily translate to the NFL that well. That doesn't mean the talent can't translate to the NFL.

Lets see how you tip-toe around this one now. You know everybody can see right through your BS, right?

Oversimplified no.   If White had talent that translated to the NFL he would be in the league now.  He did not. His numbers were because of the system.  One thing you forget is college coaches recruit to fit their systems.  Not the other way around.  Would Rodgers be successful in WVU's system?  Maybe but Holgorsen would never recruit him there because his skill set does not fit the system.  And Pat White was drafted to run the Wildcat in the NFL?  So you waste a second round pick for a situational player taking 3 to 5 sips per game?  Please.

Reading is fundamental Packinatl. My issue isn't with that you are calling Pat White a system QB. My issue is that you are saying Geno Smith can't/won't succeed because he's in the same system that Pat White came from. My statistics show that Smith throws the ball WAY more than White ever did, Smith has a better accuracy (70+% accuracy is impressive, and as one media expert (sorry I forgot who) said it's impressive even if the QB is throwing against air), way more passing yards, and a way better TD:INT ratio.

Pat White was also only 6'0". Geno Smith is supposed to be closer to 6'3". That makes a big difference in the NFL. And you don't think Pat White was drafted to be a wildcat QB? Here's what Pat White's wikipedia says about it: "White was drafted by the Miami Dolphins with the 44th overall pick of the 2009 NFL Draft. After being drafted, Dolphins' general manager Jeff Ireland stated that White would be in competition for the starting quarterback job with Chad Pennington and Chad Henne, while also being used in the Wildcat formation (effectively making it a spread), and as a receiver." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_White_(athlete)

Never said he was in the same system.  I even made the point that  Holgorsen throws the ball more like he did with Leach at Tech.  Fact is that both systems are spread based with Smith in the shotgun just like White was.  I also look at his numbers playing better competition and his numbers are under 60% 2 or his last 4 games with 3 INTs in those games.   He does not have the speed to do it with his legs like Griffin and Newton.  Smith will struggle at the next level

Your point seems to be a moving one at this point. So now Smith is going to struggle at the next level because he's coming from a spread system kind of like what White came from just with twice as much passing (how those two systems are remotely the same is still beyond me...apparently every spread system is now basically the same) and because he's not a good enough runner? I guess pocket passers like Peyton Manning are pretty average in the NFL. The Cam Newtons of the world are really what drive the NFL, right? Wow...And yes, Smith has struggled as of late but when you look at his overall body of work he has 31 TD's to 3 INT's in 9 games, which projects to 41 TD's to 4 INT's over 12 games. I guess a better than 10:1 TD:INT ratio is far from great, though, right?

Thats my opinion of him and if you dont respect that I could really give a flying you know what. 

Yep and most spreads are the same. Shotgun formation, 2 min drill type tempo.  Multiple wide outs...   Texas Tech under Leach ran the same spread principles that Rich Rod did at WVU and Michigan...only difference is ratio run to pass....I have no idea what your comment about Manning in your last post meant or Newtons of the world driving the NFL..but whatever

Smith was great against poor defenses and competition...not so much the last 4 games

Why would we go 4 games back and not 5 games back? Is Texas not good competition or something? Or is it because you are cherry-picking? Lets look at the last 5 games as that Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas St, TCU, and Oklahoma St, and for your benefit it excludes Smith's 45/51 (88.2%), 656 passing yard, 8 TD, 0 INT game against Baylor, which I know you desperately want to exclude. Here's Geno Smith's stats over the last 5 games:
5g, 143/230 (62.2%). 1,310 passing yards, 11 passing TD's, and 3 INT's. That's still almost a 4:1 TD:INT ratio which isn't too shabby. 1,310 yards over 5 games would be about 3,144 yards if it was stretched over 12 games. That's not that bad, either. I think you are oversimplifying the QB argument by counting Smith out because of his system without looking at other things, and I think you overstating just how bad Geno Smith has played lately. That's good competition over the last 5 weeks and sure his production has dropped but that was to be expected. It's UWV's defense that is mainly to blame for most of the losses. I mean, Geno Smith and Co. put together 70 points against Baylor and won by 1 score. They put 34 points up against Oklahoma St and got blown out. In the end, Geno Smith does have that system QB label, but he's put up enough stats to show that people need to look beyond that. The guy has put up 399 passes and only 3 were INT. That's a 0.75% (or 0.0075) INT rate. That's pretty dang good by any standard. He's also listed as 6'3" which gives him some breathing room over the 6'2" measurement, whereas, guys like Barkley, Wilson, and Murray will really be cutting it close or under. Geno Smith is in the 1st round conversation and for good reason, and he has done enough to deserve a closer look than what system he is playing in.

Last post on this topic...........
I think its fair to exclude the Baylor game considering they are ranked 116 out of 118 teams in FBS vs the pass.  His other decent game was vs Oklahoma St ranked 96th vs the pass out of 118.  But look what happens when he goes against Tech (18 in total D)  TCU (28) and K State (34)

On your other point that its WVU defense is to blame, then how do you explain scoring only 14 points in 2 of the 4 losses  And vs TCU of the 3 TD scoring drives one was on a 9 yard drive after a fumble.

Now if you want to continue this PM me...Im done wasting other good posters time
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Offline LMG

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Re: Top QB's in draft
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2012, 07:41:20 AM »
Thank you!!  deadhorse)
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