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Author Topic: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...  (Read 4654 times)

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Offline B

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Nearly every yard rushing by the Lynch came while the Packers were playing a 4/3 defense, with Peppers and Neal at defensive end positions , Jones and Daniels at defensive tackles and (don't ask me why) Matthews Hawk and Jones as the 3 linebackers.

just sayin'
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They just ran out of time.
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Offline golfman

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2014, 04:48:53 AM »
That is just simply not true. Many of those yards were gained when Capers was playing his 2-4-5 BS defense. The Packers did play some 4-3, but often only the tackles had their hand in the dirt. I'll say it again. This teams talent is perfectly designed to play 4-3. Especially the linemen. We're 4 deep at DE and 3 deep at the 1 tech tackle and Daniels is the perfect 3 technique.

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Offline iarwain

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2014, 06:03:23 AM »
Well, if this team is perfectly built for a 4-3, that should make the transition easier if Capers leaves at the end of the season and we get a new coach who favors the 4-3.

Offline Hincha

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2014, 07:10:13 AM »
I do not know who is right...  but I distinctly recall Guion getting pushed around in the middle of the defense on some of the Seahawks running plays.

Offline golfman

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2014, 07:12:48 AM »
I do not know who is right...  but I distinctly recall Guion getting pushed around in the middle of the defense on some of the Seahawks running plays.


Guion was pushed around on all the plays he was in on, not just running plays. We did play some 4-3 but to say all the rushing yards came against that is simply NOT true. We played a lot of 2-4-5 and got the ball jammed down our throat, which is the norm with that defense.
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Offline cheech

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2014, 08:04:54 AM »
I posted this on PR.  My thoughts:

About 9 months ago - when I was on a little "hiatus" - I was championing a change on defense to the 4-3 "under" formation that is run by the Seahawks.  Looking at our defensive personnel at the time it was obvious that a two gapping 3-4 wasn't the answer.  Daniels and Worthy were a better fit for a 3 technique 1 gap system.  Neal and Perry were better suited to play 4-3 end.  Raji was better suited to play NT than DE.  Matthews had proven that he can play absolutely anywhere. 

I had some trepidation about D. Jones holding up vs. the run as a 5 technique end.  I was hoping that Josh Boyd would be able to fill that position in obvious running situations and allow Jones to grow into it in year 3.  I was also concerned about the LB situation - knowing that Hawk and Jones surely wouldn't cut it.  I had hopes of Lattimore stepping up at SAM and TT drafting another LB that could run.  (Freaking JETS picked up the perfect player in AJ EDDS last week to fill that role.)

Once Peppers was signed the Packer journalists finally caught on to the idea that change was a-coming.  "Elephant" position was mentioned 1,000 times in articles.  The problem was that MM wouldn't allow them to expand on other changes to the defense to keep it "under wraps."  Shoot.  If little old me could figure it out BEFORE we signed Peppers - every OC in the league knew what was coming when they signed Peppers. 

Pete Carroll surely wasn't fooled when Dom Capers strutted out the defense that Pete Carrol himself perfected.  Darrell Bevell must have been licking his chops when he saw the Packers come out in the formations that his offense practiced against for the last 4-5 years.  Think Russell Wilson was fooled?  Seattle knows exactly how to attack the 4-3 U defense.  It does it every day in practice.  We shouldn't be surprised that a lesser defense didn't hold up vs. the Seattle offense at all. 

So here's where it all went wrong:
*The loss of BJ Raji at NT - I don't care if he didn't live up to the hype of his first and second year.  The move back to NT was needed and he had a GREAT summer.  Raji has demonstrated the ability to BLOW UP centers in this league.  He would require help from a back or a guard when playing.  Guion can't hold his jock strap.  Raji was poised to be a difference maker again.  Now the NT position is a weak point in the defense.  Unger was able to take him off of the LOS single-handedly - allowing other blockers to get to our ILB - who cannot get off of blocks.

*When Guion was signed I thought he would be a perfect fit at the 5-tech in running situations.  A better version of C. Wilson.  He's out of position at NT.  He doesn't have that anchor. 

*TT didn't find 1-2 more linebackers that fit the 4-3.  Jones and Hawk simply can't move.  Hawk still made some plays - but we know how atrocious he is when he's blocked.  We needed some athletic guys who can tackle.  I think we have two in Lattimore and Barrington, but of course Capers is youthaphobic. 

* Worthy was a PERFECT fit as a gap busting 3 technique.  Injuries/attitude must have derailed his summer.  TT hoped that Thornton was the answer as a backup to Daniels.  He wasn't ready, and now Daniels doesn't have a backup and Worthy is still without a job. 

* With Guion playing on skates DC went to the nickel version of the 4-3 U - essentially 3-3-5 with Matthews at ILB and Perry/Neal in a 2 point stance next to the line.  Problem:  Harvin.  Lack of discipline on the outside and lack of practice defending the triple option killed the Pack.  I don't know of a single team that is prepared to defend that triple option, though.  Beastmode requires one to stay at home in the middle.  Harvin is too fast to stay at home in the middle.  Wilson is deadly outside the pocket.  That there is a scary offense and will not be stopped this year unless we sacrifice some animals to AGBPHG and ask him to turn his gaze to Seattle - specifically Harvin. 


Solutions?

* Find someone who can play NT.  Pennel isn't a difference maker, but he surely can play better than Guion.  Again - Capers must get over his youthphobia. 

* Get Lattimore on the field.  I don't care if he doesn't know how to line up.  He knows how to tackle.  He knows how to be aggressive enough  to attack the ball carrier before blocks get to him.  We might have been better with 10 on the field than having Brad Jones out there.  Whoofta.  He was TURRIBLE. 

* Get some depth on the DL.  Go back and get Worthy.  Sign Still.  Is Vickerson still available?   The DL needs depth. 

* Practice tackling year round.  MM admitted that his players didn't run through the near hip.  Guess who's fault that is?  The coaching.  If you want them to do it every time - like Seattle does - you MUST make it a culture.  DC needs to forget about the fancy pants blitzes and scheme that he'll use 5 times a year and focus MUCH MORE of his practice time on something that needs to happen every play - tackling.  Seattle is so stinkin' proud of how they do it that they posted a video on how they practice it on the bottom of their web page.  Fundamentals have always been an issue under MM's tenure.  That falls on him.  Seattle does it year round - even w/o helmets.  That is Lombardi-esque.  If Clinton-Dix were in the Seattle camp we wouldn't have seen those missed tackles. 

* Re-sign JF.  The offense needs to stay on the field more to help the defense.  We need a pass catching TE.  TT needs to go and get JF and DROP Quarless' sorry self. 


So - get to know GBP's new defense.  The ins and outs are exciting to a guy like me.  If you take some time to read and learn yourself the concepts you'll find yourself watching the front 7 intently on every play.  I think we're 2-3 players away from a formidable front 7.  Raji's injury hurt like hell - but considering the circumstances of the game Thursday night I think brighter days may be ahead with a few cultural and personnel adjustments.
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Offline golfman

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2014, 08:10:31 AM »
You had me until you said resign JF. It's football and not worth risking the kids life over.
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2014, 08:15:37 AM »

* Practice tackling year round.  MM admitted that his players didn't run through the near hip.  Guess who's fault that is?  The coaching.  If you want them to do it every time - like Seattle does - you MUST make it a culture.  DC needs to forget about the fancy pants blitzes and scheme that he'll use 5 times a year and focus MUCH MORE of his practice time on something that needs to happen every play - tackling.  Seattle is so stinkin' proud of how they do it that they posted a video on how they practice it on the bottom of their web page.  Fundamentals have always been an issue under MM's tenure.  That falls on him.  Seattle does it year round - even w/o helmets.  That is Lombardi-esque.  If Clinton-Dix were in the Seattle camp we wouldn't have seen those missed tackles. 
You do remember the Seahawks got fined $300,000 and lost practices for violating the no-contact rules in the CBA right? You can ask for tacking year round, but the CBA says it won't happen. Unless you cheat like the Seahawks.
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Offline cheech

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2014, 08:22:32 AM »
You had me until you said resign JF. It's football and not worth risking the kids life over.

I was under the impression that he was cleared by doctors who said he had no greater chance of sustaining the same injury again.  If that is not true, then I'm fine with him staying retired.  Maybe Bostick will alleviate the need.
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Offline cheech

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2014, 08:23:30 AM »

* Practice tackling year round.  MM admitted that his players didn't run through the near hip.  Guess who's fault that is?  The coaching.  If you want them to do it every time - like Seattle does - you MUST make it a culture.  DC needs to forget about the fancy pants blitzes and scheme that he'll use 5 times a year and focus MUCH MORE of his practice time on something that needs to happen every play - tackling.  Seattle is so stinkin' proud of how they do it that they posted a video on how they practice it on the bottom of their web page.  Fundamentals have always been an issue under MM's tenure.  That falls on him.  Seattle does it year round - even w/o helmets.  That is Lombardi-esque.  If Clinton-Dix were in the Seattle camp we wouldn't have seen those missed tackles. 
You do remember the Seahawks got fined $300,000 and lost practices for violating the no-contact rules in the CBA right? You can ask for tacking year round, but the CBA says it won't happen. Unless you cheat like the Seahawks.


Sure seems like 300k well spent if you ask me. 
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2014, 08:28:42 AM »

* Practice tackling year round.  MM admitted that his players didn't run through the near hip.  Guess who's fault that is?  The coaching.  If you want them to do it every time - like Seattle does - you MUST make it a culture.  DC needs to forget about the fancy pants blitzes and scheme that he'll use 5 times a year and focus MUCH MORE of his practice time on something that needs to happen every play - tackling.  Seattle is so stinkin' proud of how they do it that they posted a video on how they practice it on the bottom of their web page.  Fundamentals have always been an issue under MM's tenure.  That falls on him.  Seattle does it year round - even w/o helmets.  That is Lombardi-esque.  If Clinton-Dix were in the Seattle camp we wouldn't have seen those missed tackles. 
You do remember the Seahawks got fined $300,000 and lost practices for violating the no-contact rules in the CBA right? You can ask for tacking year round, but the CBA says it won't happen. Unless you cheat like the Seahawks.


Sure seems like 300k well spent if you ask me.
  And if they keep doing it, the fines will get larger and they will lose more practices.  I don't want the packers to be cheating scumbags like Carroll.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline cpk1994

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2014, 08:33:22 AM »
You had me until you said resign JF. It's football and not worth risking the kids life over.

I was under the impression that he was cleared by doctors who said he had no greater chance of sustaining the same injury again.  If that is not true, then I'm fine with him staying retired.  Maybe Bostick will alleviate the need.
He was cleared by his neurosurgeon. But the word of a specialist doesn't seem to be enough for team doctors who seem to think they know more than other doctors.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline get louder at lambeau

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2014, 08:34:26 AM »
I want the Packers to be winning scumbags. I don't care if we burn precious cap space. Sign risky free agents. Practice to win. Change the front office. The Lombardi trophy isn't the Lady Byng.
Why can't Ted Thompson be the MVP of the NFL?

Offline cheech

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2014, 08:51:34 AM »
Offseason or no offseason tackling - clearly the coaching staff doesn't put enough emphasis or practice time into it.  Seattle players have it down to muscle memory.  Green Bay players don't.  The best tackling players we have CAME IN as good tacklers:  See Hyde, Micah and Matthews, Clay. 
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Offline Beagle

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Re: Those Pounding The Table and Calling for the 4/3 Defense Got Their Wish...
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2014, 08:58:35 AM »
Offseason or no offseason tackling - clearly the coaching staff doesn't put enough emphasis or practice time into it.  Seattle players have it down to muscle memory.  Green Bay players don't.  The best tackling players we have CAME IN as good tacklers:  See Hyde, Micah and Matthews, Clay.

I don't blame Clinton-Dix for not being able to take down Lynch because he is a rookie and Lynch is a beast. Lynch knows how to get away from smaller guys.

HA HA will be just fine, but like Sharper and other guys before him, he will need to grow into the position and learning to tackle will be one of the things he will get better at.
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