March 20, 2019, 01:56:21 AM

Author Topic: Play Calling  (Read 8758 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Thom_Tedson

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: +1/-0
Play Calling
« on: September 22, 2014, 10:09:17 AM »
What in the world is going on with GB's offense play calling? Here are some people's thoughts:

Luke Rodgers (Aaron's Brother) via twitter:
Quote
Watching the offensive creativity in these late games is making me nauseous.

Aaron Rodgers in his press conference:
Quote
Offensively, we didn’t make enough good adjustments to score more points...
He goes on to state the word "adjustment" about a dozen more times in his press conference.

Jason Wilde, a reporter whose lively hood depends on not upsetting the powers-that-be at the Packers, said today on Green and Gold Today:
Quote
Here's what I didn't understand about their game plan yesterday: Once their running game wasn't working against that front four… once it was clear that even though they were playing their safeties deep, that they couldn't run the ball against six in the box. Get four wide receivers out there and a back… or tight end… spread it out. Go to the shotgun and go 'boom, bing, bing, bing' and see how accurate Aaron Rodgers is.
(it's worth listening to this whole episode).

Here's what I think:
I go to at least one game a year since my family has season tickets. The benefit of seeing the games live is being able to watch what you want—which is different than TV where everything focuses very closely on the ball.

About two years ago when Clements took over as OC, I noticed that the routes in the offense were changing. It seemed like most of the receivers were running identical routes that mirrored each other. When they weren't doing that, all the recievers were kind of running to the same area of the field, whether the middle, shallow, or deep. This was creating a lot more traffic around the receivers and the passes.

So since Clements took over we still have a Head Coach hired to call and plan the offense, and an offense that has been getting progressively worse and worse since Philbin left. To make things even more pathetic, the Packers have never been able to come up with a good running scheme, so everything is very heavily reliant on the passing game which has deteriorated over recent years with mediocre new schemes and personnel attrition.

What value does Mike McCarthy have at this point? He can't get a run game to work against any team, and can't get a passing game to work against one of the worst secondaries the Packers will see all season. I believe this season is going to be a tipping point for him.

As for this season, I predict a loss to the Bears and mass hysteria. Followed by two wins and chest-beating of the 3-3 Packers going to the Super Bowl again. What follows that will be a season of mediocrity and anywhere from a 6-10 season to a 9-7 season—a record good enough to justify letting McCarthy get another year to get things worked out. But at this point, I think McCarthy has shown that he doesn't bring anything special to the table. So why not move on?

Don't get me wrong; I believe there is plenty of blame to go around the whole organization. I thing the nepotism of the Green Bay Packers organization is catching up with them. The question in my mind is, "When will this all be acted upon? Will we have to wait a few years for this to happen slowly or will they do it quick and get things back on track right away?" The fascinating thing about the Green Bay Packers this year will be to see what it does as an organization.

Offline bbayley

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3212
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 10:44:32 AM »
Definitely seems like there's more players/media discussing the game strategy this week than in weeks past.  Hopefully that will open it up to being more of a openly debatable topic.

I agree with Jason.  It bugs me like crazy that MM would stick with the unsuccessful run game again this week.  I'm all for trying it each week, but sometimes it's just not going to work.

Against the Jets, MM was insistent on getting the run game going.  After 10 or so miserable runs it became clear that the best bet was to give it to Aaron and let him start trying to make something happen.  Shockingly we put some points on the board to close the gap before half time - and ended up pulling out the victory in the 2nd half.

Very next week, we can't run the ball whatsoever against the Lions.  Takes forever to start going to the passing game, but when we finally do we start moving the ball (2nd half).  But for some reason we would make some nice short passes, move the ball down the field, and then run 2 god awful misdirection/stretch plays for negative yards and kill the drive.

Online marklawrence

  • Administrator
  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: +38/-12
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 10:54:26 AM »
We had a couple years with no running game. They went poorly in the post season. Everyone screamed for a running game. So McCarthy builds one. Now it's having some problems and everyone is screaming to abandon it. Y'all seem to believe in "plan and quit." We're going to need that running game in December and January, and I'm perfectly satisfied that McCarthy refuses to give up on it.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” -- John F. Kennedy.

Offline bbayley

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3212
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 11:10:50 AM »
Does it really seem like we're building it up?  We didn't run well in week one.  Didn't run well in week 2.  Didn't run well in week 3.

Don't really want to fall out of the playoff race while we're trying to get the running game going.

Offline Beast Light

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2940
  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2014, 11:15:12 AM »
We had a couple years with no running game. They went poorly in the post season. Everyone screamed for a running game. So McCarthy builds one. Now it's having some problems and everyone is screaming to abandon it. Y'all seem to believe in "plan and quit." We're going to need that running game in December and January, and I'm perfectly satisfied that McCarthy refuses to give up on it.

I agree to extent.  However, the Lions came into the game with a serious disadvantage at the defensive back position.  I want a the Packers to run the ball and I want them to run the ball well.  However, yesterday was an exceptional situation.  The running game was going no where and the Packers should have attacked through the air.

When it comes to the Packers running game, I'm baffled.  With the way teams have committed themselves to trying to stop our passing games over the years, you'd think we'd average 4.5-5 YPC on the ground.  Instead, our ground game has been pathetic with the exception of last year.  I expected the team to be able to build on last year's success but so far, it looks like we have taken a step backwards.

I've noticed that most of our runs seem to be out of the shot gun, are delayed and rely on misdirection.  I'd really like to see Lacy get the ball at close to full speed, near the LOS to see what he can do.  Give the defense something to think about.  The running game isn't going to do much to slow the pass rush when the defense has a shot to tackle the RB in the backfield every time.  The way I see it, they rush the pass and if its a run, they have a shot at a TFL.

Offline get louder at lambeau

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2014, 11:31:26 AM »
We had a couple years with no running game. They went poorly in the post season. Everyone screamed for a running game. So McCarthy builds one. Now it's having some problems and everyone is screaming to abandon it. Y'all seem to believe in "plan and quit." We're going to need that running game in December and January, and I'm perfectly satisfied that McCarthy refuses to give up on it.

I think the difference in opinion is what we are first, pass or run. Also do we set up the run with passing or set up the passing game with runnning. But I'll agree with your initial sentence, we need a running game. Its just a matter of having a game plan that implements it well.
Why can't Ted Thompson be the MVP of the NFL?

Offline Skinny

  • All Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014, 11:33:00 AM »
If we start seeing the statue of liberty and half back pass then ill be worried about play calling. 

Offline get louder at lambeau

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2014, 11:35:00 AM »
If we start seeing the statue of liberty and half back pass then ill be worried about play calling.
Or the fumblerooski
Why can't Ted Thompson be the MVP of the NFL?

Offline golfman

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11870
  • Karma: +9/-1
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2014, 01:01:13 PM »
We had a couple years with no running game. They went poorly in the post season. Everyone screamed for a running game. So McCarthy builds one. Now it's having some problems and everyone is screaming to abandon it. Y'all seem to believe in "plan and quit." We're going to need that running game in December and January, and I'm perfectly satisfied that McCarthy refuses to give up on it.

Nobody is screaming to abandon it. What people are saying, especially yesterday is why not get the passing game going against that secondary and allow it to open up the running game. It's been done before, by us, with success. EVERYBODY knew the strength was the front 7 and the clear weakness was the secondary.

It doesn't seem like rocket science to me so our coaches sure should have been able to figure that out.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 01:05:01 PM by golfman »
"Make the Packers Great Again! "

Offline Pugger

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • Karma: +4/-1
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2014, 01:31:52 PM »
We had a couple years with no running game. They went poorly in the post season. Everyone screamed for a running game. So McCarthy builds one. Now it's having some problems and everyone is screaming to abandon it. Y'all seem to believe in "plan and quit." We're going to need that running game in December and January, and I'm perfectly satisfied that McCarthy refuses to give up on it.

I don't know if we should abandon the run but if it isn't working in the game try something else.  Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?   :-\  It is a shame we didn't put Kuhn in there to lead block when we were on the 1 yard line after the INT.   :(

Offline golfman

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11870
  • Karma: +9/-1
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2014, 01:33:53 PM »
We had a couple years with no running game. They went poorly in the post season. Everyone screamed for a running game. So McCarthy builds one. Now it's having some problems and everyone is screaming to abandon it. Y'all seem to believe in "plan and quit." We're going to need that running game in December and January, and I'm perfectly satisfied that McCarthy refuses to give up on it.

I don't know if we should abandon the run but if it isn't working in the game try something else.  Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?   :-\  It is a shame we didn't put Kuhn in there to lead block when we were on the 1 yard line after the INT.   :(

He would have had to block 3 guys then. In hindsight Kuhn in there on a fullback dive might have gained a yard or two and been a great option, again in hindsight.

I'm not a fan of running at the 1 yard line when HB is so deep. Too much bad can go wrong, but so can a holding penalty on a pass play which nets the same result.
"Make the Packers Great Again! "

Offline Pugger

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • Karma: +4/-1
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2014, 01:34:17 PM »
We had a couple years with no running game. They went poorly in the post season. Everyone screamed for a running game. So McCarthy builds one. Now it's having some problems and everyone is screaming to abandon it. Y'all seem to believe in "plan and quit." We're going to need that running game in December and January, and I'm perfectly satisfied that McCarthy refuses to give up on it.

Nobody is screaming to abandon it. What people are saying, especially yesterday is why not get the passing game going against that secondary and allow it to open up the running game. It's been done before, by us, with success. EVERYBODY knew the strength was the front 7 and the clear weakness was the secondary.

It doesn't seem like rocket science to me so our coaches sure should have been able to figure that out.

 clap)

Offline big ror

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 754
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2014, 01:55:47 PM »
What value does Mike McCarthy have at this point? He can't get a run game to work against any team, and can't get a passing game to work against one of the worst secondaries the Packers will see all season. I believe this season is going to be a tipping point for him.

I think this is one of your better posts, Thom, even if it still contains your trademark criticism that tends to borderline on hyperbole.  Said another way, I think your criticism is quite justified, but I also think your proposed conclusion--that McCarthy is the problem and needs to go--might be overly simplistic.  It seems too early in the season to state with confidence that this is the solution to the offense's woes (plural).

However, there is, to be sure, friction between McCarthy and Rodgers right now.  This isn't the first time it's been there; McCarthy has acknowledged it in the past and even said the friction can be and often is positive, as it acts as a catalyst to better collaboration.  I agree with you that these moments define people.  The reason McCarthy is still around is because he and his teams tend to persevere during the lows.

This is the third straight year they've started 1-2.  They won the division the last two years.  They even won it last year despite missing Rodgers for 8 games and players like Cobb, Finley, and Matthews for large chunks as well.

Another way to frame what I'm saying is that this team has yet to develop their identity (in fact, I bet Rodgers uses some version of this idea on his show this Tuesday, just as he did around this time last year).

The defense seems to be getting things worked out; they're making progress.  The offense is not.  Receivers aren't getting open; Rodgers is (for his standards) not nearly as accurate, is holding on to the ball too long (even for him), is going through his progressions less because he doesn't trust a receiver not named Jordy Nelson, and is displaying happy feet; the offensive line is struggling (Bulaga had the best game, and he looked hobbled); and Lacy looks slow and indecisive.

Rodgers, Cobb, Sitton, Lang, Bakhtiari, Boykin, and Lacy aren't playing well.  At all.  The only people who seem to be ascending on the offensive side of the ball are Nelson, Linsley, and (maybe) Quarless.  Is part of their inability to execute play calling and lack of adjustments?  Sure.  But they also wouldn't need to make adjustments if they were able to execute the plays called.

Also:  why is McCarthy the one who gets the fuzzy end of the lollipop when it comes to critiques of play calling?  We've all read how much McCarthy puts on Rodgers plate, how much agency Rodgers has to check at the line of scrimmage.  Perhaps McCarthy needs to limit Rodgers' control because he's not doing well with the added responsibility and authority.

And why has Lacy played so poorly?  Per reports, even he doesn't know.

My point, in short, is that the offensive problems are much more complex than any of us ever want to admit, and scapegoating one player or coach, while it may make us feel better, is probably not what the problem is in full nor the best way to address that problem.  You do smartly note that there is a lot of blame to go around, and like you, I'm fascinated to see the way they play going forward and the consequences thereof.

It's clear the offense has work to do.  If we see another offensive performance against the Bears like the one we witnessed on Sunday (to me, the worst of Rodgers' career), then the concern level will rise.

I have more confidence in both McCarthy and Rodgers (as well a the rest of the offense) than others may, and that confidence, I'll admit, is rooted in their collective histories of success.  I think (read: hope) they'll right the ship.  If not, then maybe Thom is right:  McCarthy should go--not because it's his fault solely but because some change will need to occur and he's the easier piece to part with. 
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 02:00:24 PM by big ror »
"BBD.  Boring by Design."

Offline Half Empty

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1016
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 02:07:53 PM »
We had a couple years with no running game. They went poorly in the post season. Everyone screamed for a running game. So McCarthy builds one. Now it's having some problems and everyone is screaming to abandon it. Y'all seem to believe in "plan and quit." We're going to need that running game in December and January, and I'm perfectly satisfied that McCarthy refuses to give up on it.

Thrilled that you're perfectly satisfied.  Not much else to say, then, is there?   :)

Offline Hincha

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4101
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Play Calling
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2014, 02:16:22 PM »
If we start seeing the statue of liberty and half back pass then ill be worried about play calling.
Or the fumblerooski

Or a designed Sanchez "butt fumble".