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Author Topic: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)  (Read 16792 times)

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Offline ervall

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Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« on: September 28, 2014, 02:35:37 PM »
I understand that TT has strong supporters (no pun intended) and strong detractors, as well. Perhaps the best time to take a look at him and his record is after a win over the Bears (Thank God for Jay Cutler). Thompson is in his tenth year and has won one Super Bowl but, to my way of thinking, the real issue is where the Pack is now. So where are they?

The DL is less than average and has so little depth that the loss of a single player, BJ Raji, has rendered it nearly helpless against the run. If anything, it has gotten worse in the last four or five years. There is no noseguard/nosetackle although Boyd or Penell may develop in the future. Jones is getting better but is nowhere near looking like a first round draft choice. Mike Daniels is playing really well but, because of his size, can be taken out of a game when doubled. Guion was a waste of money.

The LBs are average and only because Matthews is outstanding, when he is healthy. Hawk is average, at best, and Lattimore may become a play but Jones never will. Peppers has been okay but is stop gap.

The DBs are pretty good. Williams is playing well as is Shields and Hyde has been a nice draft choice but Burnett is vastly overpaid. The back-ups are much better than average. Clinton-Dix was the best first round draft pick in some time.

The OL is medicore, decent in pass blocking but poor in run blocking. And it hasn't improved in the last four or five years. Center may be in good hands in the future with Tretter and Lindsley and the guards, Lang and Sitton are okay but, in my view a bit over-rated (when you look at the difficulty in running up the middle).

The RBs are a really good group and should be for some time to come as are the WRs. These two groups are, in my view, Thompson's greatest accomplishment as there is not a weak player in the bunch. The TEs are weak with Thompson having been unable to fix the problem caused by Finley's career ending injury even though the position is very important in McCarthy's scheme. And Rodgers is Rodgers. The best QB in football, in my view.

On special teams, there is an excellent punter and a horribly unreliable place kicker. The punt and KO return people have improved but not through clever drafting but rather through the good efforts of the coaching staff because Thompson, apparently, feels that it is more important to keep a third QB than to draft or sign as a free agent, a game changing returner like Hester.

Let's look at Thompson's first round draft choices.
2005 - Aaron Rodgers - a great player but Thompson would have to have been an idiot not to draft him so I can't call this a briliiant pick
2006 - AJ Hawk - never has performed like a high first round pick
2007 - Justin Harrell - a complete bust that no one had rated as a first rounder but Thompson
2008 - None
2009 - BJ Raji - an occasionally very good player but he has not performed as a ninth overall pick.
2010 - Bryan Bulaga - a decent player when he is healthy
2011 - Derek Sherrod - pretty close to a bust
2012 - Nick Perry - may become a decent player but will not ever perform as a first rounder
2012 - Datone Jones - may become a good player but has been a bit of a disappointment
2013 - HaHa Clinton-Dix - may become an excellent player

All in all, not a very distinguished group. In fact, one could argue that the second round group is better, although it contains many more picks - Nick Collins, Terrence Murphy, Darin Colledge, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Brian Bohm, Jordy Nelson, Patrick Lee, Mike Neal, Randall Cobb, Jerold Worthy, Casey Hayward, Eddie Lacey, Davonte Adams.

Thompson's continuing reluctance to sign high dollar unrestricted free agents has, in my view, been a real problem. I am not suggesting that the team should rely on that approach but I also remember what happened when the Packers signed Reggie White and Sean Jones. Cutting yourself off from that group is simply denying yourself access to a pool of players that other GMs do have access to. Charles Woodson was a brilliant pickup and, in the years following, signing three or four other carefully selected UFAs could have ut the Pack in much better shape than they are today. For example, in the past three years, a sold left tackle could have been signed leaving the current OTs to fight for the RT starting job.

Well, that's what I think. Many of you will have different views and I would enjoy reading about them. BTW, I have been a Packer fan for a long time - in the first game I saw in person, people like Tobin Rote, Howie Ferguson, Clayton Tonamaker and Billie Howton played.

Offline MagicMansMullet

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 02:41:59 PM »
Couple of things, it's easy now to say passing on Rodgers in the draft would be idiotic but at the time, it was a decision that was met with a lot of flack from fans who felt TT wasted a pick on a guy who wouldn't help Brett Favre get another ring.

You left out Clay Matthews, who was drafted in 2009 after TT traded back up into the first round. 

While I agree that his 1st round picks have been far from awesome, he does have success with some later round picks and UDFAs. 

Im a supporter of the silver fox, but he HAS to hit on more of his draft picks because of the philosophy he chooses to utilize, which is draft and develop.
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2014, 02:48:11 PM »
Couple of things, it's easy now to say passing on Rodgers in the draft would be idiotic but at the time, it was a decision that was met with a lot of flack from fans who felt TT wasted a pick on a guy who wouldn't help Brett Favre get another ring.

You left out Clay Matthews, who was drafted in 2009 after TT traded back up into the first round. 

While I agree that his 1st round picks have been far from awesome, he does have success with some later round picks and UDFAs. 

Im a supporter of the silver fox, but he HAS to hit on more of his draft picks because of the philosophy he chooses to utilize, which is draft and develop.

Ron Wolf's history in the 1st round was far worse:

Terrell Buckley
Wayne Simmons
George Teague
Aaron Taylor
Craig Newsome
John Michaels
Ross Verba
Vonnie Holliday
Antuan Edwards
Bubba Franks
Jamal Reynolds

Ted looks like a damn genius in comparison.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline heikks86

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2014, 02:53:03 PM »
I understand that TT has strong supporters (no pun intended) and strong detractors, as well. Perhaps the best time to take a look at him and his record is after a win over the Bears (Thank God for Jay Cutler). Thompson is in his tenth year and has won one Super Bowl but, to my way of thinking, the real issue is where the Pack is now. So where are they?

The DL is less than average and has so little depth that the loss of a single player, BJ Raji, has rendered it nearly helpless against the run. If anything, it has gotten worse in the last four or five years. There is no noseguard/nosetackle although Boyd or Penell may develop in the future. Jones is getting better but is nowhere near looking like a first round draft choice. Mike Daniels is playing really well but, because of his size, can be taken out of a game when doubled. Guion was a waste of money.

The LBs are average and only because Matthews is outstanding, when he is healthy. Hawk is average, at best, and Lattimore may become a play but Jones never will. Peppers has been okay but is stop gap.

The DBs are pretty good. Williams is playing well as is Shields and Hyde has been a nice draft choice but Burnett is vastly overpaid. The back-ups are much better than average. Clinton-Dix was the best first round draft pick in some time.

The OL is medicore, decent in pass blocking but poor in run blocking. And it hasn't improved in the last four or five years. Center may be in good hands in the future with Tretter and Lindsley and the guards, Lang and Sitton are okay but, in my view a bit over-rated (when you look at the difficulty in running up the middle).

The RBs are a really good group and should be for some time to come as are the WRs. These two groups are, in my view, Thompson's greatest accomplishment as there is not a weak player in the bunch. The TEs are weak with Thompson having been unable to fix the problem caused by Finley's career ending injury even though the position is very important in McCarthy's scheme. And Rodgers is Rodgers. The best QB in football, in my view.

On special teams, there is an excellent punter and a horribly unreliable place kicker. The punt and KO return people have improved but not through clever drafting but rather through the good efforts of the coaching staff because Thompson, apparently, feels that it is more important to keep a third QB than to draft or sign as a free agent, a game changing returner like Hester.

Let's look at Thompson's first round draft choices.
2005 - Aaron Rodgers - a great player but Thompson would have to have been an idiot not to draft him so I can't call this a briliiant pick
2006 - AJ Hawk - never has performed like a high first round pick
2007 - Justin Harrell - a complete bust that no one had rated as a first rounder but Thompson
2008 - None
2009 - BJ Raji - an occasionally very good player but he has not performed as a ninth overall pick.
2010 - Bryan Bulaga - a decent player when he is healthy
2011 - Derek Sherrod - pretty close to a bust
2012 - Nick Perry - may become a decent player but will not ever perform as a first rounder
2012 - Datone Jones - may become a good player but has been a bit of a disappointment
2013 - HaHa Clinton-Dix - may become an excellent player

All in all, not a very distinguished group. In fact, one could argue that the second round group is better, although it contains many more picks - Nick Collins, Terrence Murphy, Darin Colledge, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Brian Bohm, Jordy Nelson, Patrick Lee, Mike Neal, Randall Cobb, Jerold Worthy, Casey Hayward, Eddie Lacey, Davonte Adams.

Thompson's continuing reluctance to sign high dollar unrestricted free agents has, in my view, been a real problem. I am not suggesting that the team should rely on that approach but I also remember what happened when the Packers signed Reggie White and Sean Jones. Cutting yourself off from that group is simply denying yourself access to a pool of players that other GMs do have access to. Charles Woodson was a brilliant pickup and, in the years following, signing three or four other carefully selected UFAs could have ut the Pack in much better shape than they are today. For example, in the past three years, a sold left tackle could have been signed leaving the current OTs to fight for the RT starting job.

Well, that's what I think. Many of you will have different views and I would enjoy reading about them. BTW, I have been a Packer fan for a long time - in the first game I saw in person, people like Tobin Rote, Howie Ferguson, Clayton Tonamaker and Billie Howton played.


Harrell was rated a first rounder by other teams. there were other teams that said they were mad when the Packers took Harrell because they wanted him. Also Crosby is no longer unreliable he has been very very good the past season and a half

Offline Beagle

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2014, 03:02:33 PM »
Thompson's continuing reluctance to sign high dollar unrestricted free agents has, in my view, been a real problem.

No argument there, but I don't think you are being completely fair. You have to judge his entire body of work for the drafts he has done. In other words, all 7 rounds.

He has hit on some great players. I would say "The Trenches" is where he is having his biggest problems.

Interesting read, thanks for sharing.
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Offline LMG

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2014, 03:17:14 PM »
BTW, I have been a Packer fan for a long time - in the first game I saw in person, people like Tobin Rote, Howie Ferguson, Clayton Tonamaker and Billie Howton played.


Don't forget Bobby Dillion, Gary Knafelc, Veryl Switzer, Al Carmichael, Fred Cone, Dave Hanner, Floyd (Breezy) Reid....the list goes on.  8)


I don't remember seeing you at City Stadium (East HS).   hatsoff)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 08:49:43 PM by LMGAdmin »
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Offline Hincha

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2014, 03:54:46 PM »
Perhaps the best time to take a look at him and his record is after a win over the Bears (Thank God for Jay Cutler).

What is it about playing the Bears that makes this the best time to evaulate TT? 

I would think late in the season or offseason a better time to evaluate.




Offline big ror

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2014, 04:03:15 PM »
I applaud the effort to point out facts but be prepared for the usual deny/deflect/attack the messenger responses.

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Offline skcusICH

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2014, 04:20:52 PM »
I don't think you can fault Thompson for the AJ Hawk pick. Just about every scouting report had him as the most NFL ready prospect. It was a position of need for the Packers. It seemed the perfect fit/match.

BJ Raji was an important part of the Super Bowl run. Was being viewed as one of the top young NT's in the league by many people. Drafting him was the right move...using him as DE the last couple years is debatable. Nothing to do with the draft.

If Bulaga doesn't tear his ACL last year, that looks like a great pick.

I do not agree one bit about Crosby. One of the strongest legs in the league and has been nothing short of consistent since his sub-par season. The Packers' special teams my not be the best in the league, but they also aren't a weakness. Masthay rarely kicks it into the endzone or allows return yardage. His only weakness in my opinion, is his inability to get off a booming punt with tons of hang time when deep in his own territory. I see some punters around the league who can do this, and I just shake my head in awe.

I still believe Nick Perry can be a player. He sets the edge in the run game really well and can knock a TE to the ground at the line of scrimmage in the passing game. Reminds me of Wayne Simmons in that regard. I think he needs to be utilized correctly and he has shown some flashes of being able to blow plays up when he's been healthy.

Offline golfman

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2014, 04:23:03 PM »
Not blaming TT for taking Hawk, but TE was a position of need and VD was a freak athlete that doesn't come along very often. We had Bubba, but he was like watching a guy run with a piano on his back and near the end of the line.
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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2014, 04:30:01 PM »
I don't think you can fault Thompson for the AJ Hawk pick. Just about every scouting report had him as the most NFL ready prospect. It was a position of need for the Packers. It seemed the perfect fit/match.

BJ Raji was an important part of the Super Bowl run. Was being viewed as one of the top young NT's in the league by many people. Drafting him was the right move...using him as DE the last couple years is debatable. Nothing to do with the draft.

If Bulaga doesn't tear his ACL last year, that looks like a great pick.

I do not agree one bit about Crosby. One of the strongest legs in the league and has been nothing short of consistent since his sub-par season. The Packers' special teams my not be the best in the league, but they also aren't a weakness. Masthay rarely kicks it into the endzone or allows return yardage. His only weakness in my opinion, is his inability to get off a booming punt with tons of hang time when deep in his own territory. I see some punters around the league who can do this, and I just shake my head in awe.

I still believe Nick Perry can be a player. He sets the edge in the run game really well and can knock a TE to the ground at the line of scrimmage in the passing game. Reminds me of Wayne Simmons in that regard. I think he needs to be utilized correctly and he has shown some flashes of being able to blow plays up when he's been healthy.

Assuming TT is blameless for taking an (at best) average Hawk, does he get CREDIT for signing AJ to a huge (5 year $33.75 Million) second contract?

Offline skcusICH

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2014, 04:46:33 PM »
I don't think you can fault Thompson for the AJ Hawk pick. Just about every scouting report had him as the most NFL ready prospect. It was a position of need for the Packers. It seemed the perfect fit/match.

BJ Raji was an important part of the Super Bowl run. Was being viewed as one of the top young NT's in the league by many people. Drafting him was the right move...using him as DE the last couple years is debatable. Nothing to do with the draft.

If Bulaga doesn't tear his ACL last year, that looks like a great pick.

I do not agree one bit about Crosby. One of the strongest legs in the league and has been nothing short of consistent since his sub-par season. The Packers' special teams my not be the best in the league, but they also aren't a weakness. Masthay rarely kicks it into the endzone or allows return yardage. His only weakness in my opinion, is his inability to get off a booming punt with tons of hang time when deep in his own territory. I see some punters around the league who can do this, and I just shake my head in awe.

I still believe Nick Perry can be a player. He sets the edge in the run game really well and can knock a TE to the ground at the line of scrimmage in the passing game. Reminds me of Wayne Simmons in that regard. I think he needs to be utilized correctly and he has shown some flashes of being able to blow plays up when he's been healthy.

Assuming TT is blameless for taking an (at best) average Hawk, does he get CREDIT for signing AJ to a huge (5 year $33.75 Million) second contract?
Good point. I guess I've been brainwashed to overlook that fact.

Offline skcusICH

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2014, 04:51:10 PM »
Not blaming TT for taking Hawk, but TE was a position of need and VD was a freak athlete that doesn't come along very often. We had Bubba, but he was like watching a guy run with a piano on his back and near the end of the line.
Yea, I remember myself hoping for Vernon Davis. Wasn't there some sort of concern about behavior or off field stuff leading to the draft? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Online The GM

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2014, 05:14:22 PM »
Not blaming TT for taking Hawk, but TE was a position of need and VD was a freak athlete that doesn't come along very often. We had Bubba, but he was like watching a guy run with a piano on his back and near the end of the line.

I knew Hawk was vastly overrated (Im a huge Ohio St fan) and spent post after post after spelling out exactly what the Packers would get with him.  I wanted Vernon Davis. 

Offline Cocoman2

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Re: Ted Thompson - Judge for Yourself (long)
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2014, 05:19:07 PM »
Not blaming TT for taking Hawk, but TE was a position of need and VD was a freak athlete that doesn't come along very often. We had Bubba, but he was like watching a guy run with a piano on his back and near the end of the line.
Yea, I remember myself hoping for Vernon Davis. Wasn't there some sort of concern about behavior or off field stuff leading to the draft? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.
I believe he asked Green Bay not to draft him and made disparaging comments about the city. Also, don't forget that Singletary almost (or did, I don't remember) ask him to leave the team. he was very imature coming out of college.