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Online B

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FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« on: November 01, 2014, 05:27:13 AM »
... because there are so many better options out there...

Regular Season Wins

1.   Bill Belichick Reg. Season 205 – 107 .657;
2.   Tom Coughlin Reg. Season 161 – 134 .546;
3.   Jeff Fisher Reg. Season 158 – 142 – 1 .527;
4.   Andy Reid Reg. Season 145 – 101 – 1 .589;
5.   John Fox Reg. Season 114 – 86 .571;
6.   Marvin Lewis Reg. Season 93 – 86 – 2 .519;
7.   Mike McCarthy Reg. Season 87 – 48 – 1 .643;
8.   Lovie Smith Reg. Season 82 – 69 .543;
9.   Sean Payton Reg. Season 77 – 43 .647;
10.   Mike Tomlin Reg. Season 76 – 44 .633; 
11.   Pete Carroll Reg. Season 75 – 60 .556;
12.   John Harbaugh Reg. Season 67 – 37 644;
13.   Rex Ryan Reg. Season 43 – 45 .489; 
14.   Jim Harbaugh Reg. Season 40 – 14 – 1 .736;
15.   Jason Garrett Reg. Season 35 – 29 .547;
16.   Jim Caldwell Reg. Season 32 – 24 .571;

Championships and Playoff wins

1.   Bill Belichick Super Bowl wins (3) '01, '03, 04; Playoffs 28 = 19 - 9;
2.   Tom Coughlin Super Bowl wins (2) '07, '11; Playoffs 19 = 12 - 7;
3.   John Harbaugh Super Bowl wins  (1) ’12; Playoffs.644; 13 = 9 - 4;
4.   Mike McCarthy Super Bowl wins  (1) ’10; Playoffs 11 = 6 - 5;
5.   Sean Payton Super Bowl wins  (1) ’09; Playoffs 10 = 6 - 4;
6.   Pete Carroll Super Bowl wins  (1) ’13; Playoffs 10 = 6 - 4;
7.   Mike Tomlin Super Bowl wins  (1) ’08; Playoffs 8 = 5 – 3 ;
8.   Andy Reid Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 20 = 10 - 10;
9.   John Fox Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 14 = 8 - 6;
10.   Jeff Fisher Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 11 = 5 – 6;
11.   Jim Harbaugh Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 8 = 5 – 3;
12.   Lovie Smith Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 6 = 3 – 3;
13.   Rex Ryan Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 6 = 4 – 2; 
14.   Marvin Lewis Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 5 = 0 – 5;
15.   Jim Caldwell Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 4 = 2 – 2;
16.   Jason Garrett Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 0 = 0 – 0;

« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:29:49 AM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Offline get louder at lambeau

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2014, 07:25:04 AM »
... because there are so many better options out there...

Regular Season Wins

1.   Bill Belichick Reg. Season 205 – 107 .657;
2.   Tom Coughlin Reg. Season 161 – 134 .546;
3.   Jeff Fisher Reg. Season 158 – 142 – 1 .527;
4.   Andy Reid Reg. Season 145 – 101 – 1 .589;
5.   John Fox Reg. Season 114 – 86 .571;
6.   Marvin Lewis Reg. Season 93 – 86 – 2 .519;
7.   Mike McCarthy Reg. Season 87 – 48 – 1 .643;
8.   Lovie Smith Reg. Season 82 – 69 .543;
9.   Sean Payton Reg. Season 77 – 43 .647;
10.   Mike Tomlin Reg. Season 76 – 44 .633; 
11.   Pete Carroll Reg. Season 75 – 60 .556;
12.   John Harbaugh Reg. Season 67 – 37 644;
13.   Rex Ryan Reg. Season 43 – 45 .489; 
14.   Jim Harbaugh Reg. Season 40 – 14 – 1 .736;
15.   Jason Garrett Reg. Season 35 – 29 .547;
16.   Jim Caldwell Reg. Season 32 – 24 .571;

Championships and Playoff wins

1.   Bill Belichick Super Bowl wins (3) '01, '03, 04; Playoffs 28 = 19 - 9;
2.   Tom Coughlin Super Bowl wins (2) '07, '11; Playoffs 19 = 12 - 7;
3.   John Harbaugh Super Bowl wins  (1) ’12; Playoffs.644; 13 = 9 - 4;
4.   Mike McCarthy Super Bowl wins  (1) ’10; Playoffs 11 = 6 - 5;
5.   Sean Payton Super Bowl wins  (1) ’09; Playoffs 10 = 6 - 4;
6.   Pete Carroll Super Bowl wins  (1) ’13; Playoffs 10 = 6 - 4;
7.   Mike Tomlin Super Bowl wins  (1) ’08; Playoffs 8 = 5 – 3 ;
8.   Andy Reid Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 20 = 10 - 10;
9.   John Fox Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 14 = 8 - 6;
10.   Jeff Fisher Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 11 = 5 – 6;
11.   Jim Harbaugh Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 8 = 5 – 3;
12.   Lovie Smith Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 6 = 3 – 3;
13.   Rex Ryan Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 6 = 4 – 2; 
14.   Marvin Lewis Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 5 = 0 – 5;
15.   Jim Caldwell Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 4 = 2 – 2;
16.   Jason Garrett Super Bowl wins  (Zero); Playoffs 0 = 0 – 0;

And all the great "next" coaches have to be existing head coaches, in order to be considered. Much like MM was.
Why can't Ted Thompson be the MVP of the NFL?

Online B

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2014, 07:43:56 AM »
Exactly... The next great head coach comes along so frequently and are so easy to find. Ask Detroit, MN and Chicago...

Oakland has hired 8 next great head coaches in the 13 years.

Of the 104 head coaches hired since 2000 only 28 have survived for 5 years, 23 have been fired in 2 years or less...

Yeah, but I guess most of the next great HC's hang out in this forum.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 07:58:37 AM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline get louder at lambeau

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 08:00:02 AM »
Exactly... The next great head coach comes along so frequently and are so easy to find. Ask Detroit, MN and Chicago...
So hard that there is no point in trying. Ask Green Bay, Seattle and Philadelphia
Why can't Ted Thompson be the MVP of the NFL?

Offline golfman

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 08:26:35 AM »
Bruce,

I'm not exactly sure what those stats you post are supposed to prove, but it didn't work, at least for me. He's barely above 500 in playoff games and the wins are a direct result of longevity, nothing more. He's got a nice winning percentage because of 2 things: blessed with franchise QB's his entire tenure, he plays in the same division as Chicago, Detroit and Minnesota.

What your stats have proven is the man is mediocre, at best! If you're OK with that, that's great. I'm not, I want to win more Super Bowls!
"Make the Packers Great Again! "

AldenRoche

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2014, 08:27:26 AM »
I am writing this down in BIG LETTERS.

The Pack should wait until they make the playoffs -- assuming Detroit has its annual meltdown, the Vikes remain dysfunctional, and the Bears continue to be "led" by the immortal Jay Cutler this should not be too difficult a task with ARod at QB, BEFORE EXTENDING MM FOR LIFE.

I would wait until then because even if the Packers flame out in the playoffs without even reaching the NFC Championship for a fourth year running, WHO REALLY CARES?

It is far too much to expect team to get to a NFC Championship game on a consistent basis. Moreover, it is only because of injuries, bad calls by the refs, etc. that MM's teams have not advanced in the playoffs the last 3 seasons, they were never, ever defeated by more physical, better coached (especially on the D), or hungrier squads.

As the OP makes clear, as long as we continue to win the NFC North that should be good enough for real Packer fans.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 08:29:59 AM by AldenRoche »

Offline Twain

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2014, 08:53:55 AM »
He's barely above 500 in playoff games


This statistic I find interesting as I believe it is hard for either a QB or a coach to be much above .500 in playoffs.

For example: Take a team that ends the season the number 2 seed, then loses in the NFC championship game.  Their playoff record?  1-1.  Pretty impressive season, pretty unimpressive post season record.

Same for a wild card team that loses in the divisional round.

Unless a team wins the superbowl, they are going to get a loss in the post season.  A team doesn't play enough post season games to make up for the inevitable loss.  The only way to get much above .500 is to win the superbowl multiple times.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 08:55:34 AM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

AldenRoche

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2014, 09:12:31 AM »
He's barely above 500 in playoff games


This statistic I find interesting as I believe it is hard for either a QB or a coach to be much above .500 in playoffs.

For example: Take a team that ends the season the number 2 seed, then loses in the NFC championship game.  Their playoff record?  1-1.  Pretty impressive season, pretty unimpressive post season record.

Same for a wild card team that loses in the divisional round.

Unless a team wins the superbowl, they are going to get a loss in the post season.  A team doesn't play enough post season games to make up for the inevitable loss.  The only way to get much above .500 is to win the superbowl multiple times.

Playoff records of some CURRENT coaches:

Bill Belichick = 19 - 9;
Tom Coughlin = 12 - 7;
John Harbaugh = 9 - 4;
Sean Payton = 6 - 4;
Pete Carroll = 6 - 4;
Mike Tomlin = 5 – 3 ;
John Fox = 8 - 6;
Jim Harbaugh = 5 – 3;
Rex Ryan S = 4 – 2; and
Mike McCarthy = 6 - 5.

It is indeed difficult to win in the playoffs. However, the fact is that 9 current head coaches have won games at a higher % than MM.

Offline Twain

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2014, 09:25:02 AM »


Playoff records of some CURRENT coaches:

Bill Belichick = 19 - 9;
Tom Coughlin = 12 - 7;
John Harbaugh = 9 - 4;
Sean Payton = 6 - 4;
Pete Carroll = 6 - 4;
Mike Tomlin = 5 – 3 ;
John Fox = 8 - 6;
Jim Harbaugh = 5 – 3;
Rex Ryan S = 4 – 2; and
Mike McCarthy = 6 - 5.

It is indeed difficult to win in the playoffs. However, the fact is that 9 current head coaches have won games at a higher % than MM.

Sure Aldon, but your post proves my point.  Outside of Belichick, who actually was caught cheating, and John Harbaugh, none of those really are any different than McCarthy's record.

That is to say, they are barely above .500.

Cowher I believe was 12-9 in the playoffs.  He would not have survived in Pittsburgh if subjected to the standards here because he missed the playoffs three years in a row, at a time when he was 5-6 in the playoffs.  He only survived because Mr. Rooney believed in him.

Coughlin was 8-7 in the playoffs before his last super bowl run where he went 4-0.  Needless to say it was his only playoff appearance in the last 6 years.

So like I said, hard to get far above .500, just like the math points out.

But hey, we can hire Jim Harbaugh this year after he and the 49ers part ways.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 09:37:23 AM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Online B

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2014, 09:44:28 AM »
Bruce,

I'm not exactly sure what those stats you post are supposed to prove, but it didn't work, at least for me. He's barely above 500 in playoff games and the wins are a direct result of longevity, nothing more. He's got a nice winning percentage because of 2 things: blessed with franchise QB's his entire tenure, he plays in the same division as Chicago, Detroit and Minnesota.

What your stats have proven is the man is mediocre, at best! If you're OK with that, that's great. I'm not, I want to win more Super Bowls!
I'm pretty certain we all want to win the Superbowls.

I'm not trying to prove anything, though I'm not sure I agree on your definition of mediocrity Golf
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Online Shinesman

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2014, 10:13:01 AM »
Again the Rant and Vent forum gets used as a tool to simply mock those who discuss the Packers multiple issues. I wonder how I would be treated if I made a thread mocking the rose-glass crowd in the hoopla forum.... oh yes I would get suspended...... too bad it doent go both ways.
"Tradition! Just because we've always done it that way, doesn't mean that it isn't incredibly stupid."

AldenRoche

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2014, 10:40:16 AM »


Playoff records of some CURRENT coaches:

Bill Belichick = 19 - 9;
Tom Coughlin = 12 - 7;
John Harbaugh = 9 - 4;
Sean Payton = 6 - 4;
Pete Carroll = 6 - 4;
Mike Tomlin = 5 – 3 ;
John Fox = 8 - 6;
Jim Harbaugh = 5 – 3;
Rex Ryan S = 4 – 2; and
Mike McCarthy = 6 - 5.

It is indeed difficult to win in the playoffs. However, the fact is that 9 current head coaches have won games at a higher % than MM.

Sure Aldon, but your post proves my point.  Outside of Belichick, who actually was caught cheating, and John Harbaugh, none of those really are any different than McCarthy's record.

That is to say, they are barely above .500.

Cowher I believe was 12-9 in the playoffs.  He would not have survived in Pittsburgh if subjected to the standards here because he missed the playoffs three years in a row, at a time when he was 5-6 in the playoffs.  He only survived because Mr. Rooney believed in him.

Coughlin was 8-7 in the playoffs before his last super bowl run where he went 4-0.  Needless to say it was his only playoff appearance in the last 6 years.

So like I said, hard to get far above .500, just like the math points out.

But hey, we can hire Jim Harbaugh this year after he and the 49ers part ways.

You can interpret the data regarding current NFL coaches winning percentages any way you want Twain.

For example, once might note, as you did, that Coughlin was 8-7 before he went on his last playoff run in an attempt to diminish his overall 12-7 record while simultaneously ignoring that MM is 2-5 in the playoffs without his 4-0 run 4 years ago.

On the other hand, one might note that MM has had nothing but hall of fame QBs to work with in achieving his 6-5 playoff record, while 4-2 Rex Ryan has had Mark Sanchez and, now, Geno Smith.

Anyway, all I did was post the 9 active coaches (30% of the league) with better winning percentages in the playoffs than MM, nothing more nothing less.


Offline SSG

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2014, 12:06:35 PM »
Exactly... The next great head coach comes along so frequently and are so easy to find. Ask Detroit, MN and Chicago...

Oakland has hired 8 next great head coaches in the 13 years.

Of the 104 head coaches hired since 2000 only 28 have survived for 5 years, 23 have been fired in 2 years or less...

Yeah, but I guess most of the next great HC's hang out in this forum.

Finding a Hall of Fame QB is much more difficult than finding a good head coach.  Mike McCarthy has had the luxury of never having to lead a team without a Hall of Fame QB throwing the ball.  Is there another coach on that list that can make the same statement?  McCarthy has had as much offensive talent as any coach in the NFL to use and has had very limited success in the playoffs.  Brian Billick has a better playoff record and just as many Super Bowls as McCarthy yet 32 teams don't want anything to do with him..  is having a Super Bowl really the stamp of a great coach?  I don't think it is as 32 teams want nothing to do with Billick.  McCarthy is a decent coach but he is a far cry from a great coach.  I think there are probably over a half dozen coaches in the NFL that would have the same sort of success or more with the latent he's had to work with. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 12:09:55 PM by SSG »
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Online B

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2014, 03:51:30 PM »
Again the Rant and Vent forum gets used as a tool to simply mock those who discuss the Packers multiple issues. I wonder how I would be treated if I made a thread mocking the rose-glass crowd in the hoopla forum.... oh yes I would get suspended...... too bad it doent go both ways.

This is simply a discussion thread, no one has been mocked, and no one has victimized you.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Online B

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2014, 04:13:19 PM »
The numbers are pretty damned straight forward.

Of the 104 head coaches hired since 2000 only 9 have won Super Bowls (and that is counting Jon Gruden and Tony Dungy).

So for starters Mike is at a minimum in an elite group of 7 of 104 ... ahead of Fox, Jim Harbaugh and Rex Ryan who have never won a championship.

M.M.'s 6 playoff wins places him 5th of 104 coaches, only behind 1.)Bill Belichick (19); 2.) Tom Coughlin (12); 3.) Andy Reid (10); 4. John Fox (-8-) ...

You can try to dismiss or spin this as mediocrity if you like (must be some kind of new math you're using ;)), just as one can try to dismiss MM's which is top 5 as well.

I am not married to MM as the Head Coach, I am simply saying trying to find someone to match his success is a HUGE task, let alone trying to hire someone to exceed his success... just saying... 

« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 04:16:21 PM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi