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Author Topic: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY  (Read 27347 times)

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Offline get louder at lambeau

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2014, 04:30:05 PM »
The numbers are pretty damned straight forward.

Of the 104 head coaches hired since 2000 only 9 have won Super Bowls (and that is counting Jon Gruden and Tony Dungy).

So for starters Mike is at a minimum in an elite group of 7 of 104 ... ahead of Fox, Jim Harbaugh and Rex Ryan who have never won a championship.

M.M.'s 6 playoff wins places him 5th of 104 coaches, only behind 1.)Bill Belichick (19); 2.) Tom Coughlin (12); 3.) Andy Reid (10); 4. John Fox (-8-) ...

You can try to dismiss or spin this as mediocrity if you like (must be some kind of new math you're using ;)), just as one can try to dismiss MM's which is top 5 as well.

I am not married to MM as the Head Coach, I am simply saying trying to find someone to match his success is a HUGE task, let alone trying to hire someone to exceed his success... just saying...

were you a huge MM supporter when he was hired? Just asking
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AldenRoche

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2014, 05:04:50 PM »
I don't think the Packer's principal issues are directly MM's fault. I would say the biggest problems have been and are on the defensive side of the ball and while he is indeed the head coach, defense is neither MM's forte nor his chief responsibility.

The problems on D have to be attributed primarily to either the Defensive Coordinator Capers or the GM TT or both.

That said, for those who continue to praise MM and consider him an elite coach because he won a Super Bowl four seasons ago, how long does he get a pass for that victory, indefinitely?

MM is 1-3 in the playoffs since the Super Bowl run and his teams have not come close to even making a NFC Championship game despite having a QB who is widely considered to be among the top 2-3 in the game.

If you believe that record is acceptable, then I can see why MM gets your praise.






Offline B

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2014, 09:18:11 PM »
The numbers are pretty damned straight forward.

Of the 104 head coaches hired since 2000 only 9 have won Super Bowls (and that is counting Jon Gruden and Tony Dungy).

So for starters Mike is at a minimum in an elite group of 7 of 104 ... ahead of Fox, Jim Harbaugh and Rex Ryan who have never won a championship.

M.M.'s 6 playoff wins places him 5th of 104 coaches, only behind 1.)Bill Belichick (19); 2.) Tom Coughlin (12); 3.) Andy Reid (10); 4. John Fox (-8-) ...

You can try to dismiss or spin this as mediocrity if you like (must be some kind of new math you're using ;)), just as one can try to dismiss MM's which is top 5 as well.

I am not married to MM as the Head Coach, I am simply saying trying to find someone to match his success is a HUGE task, let alone trying to hire someone to exceed his success... just saying...

were you a huge MM supporter when he was hired? Just asking

No, I was not. I thought TT was reaching with the hire - Mike while certainly not without faults, proved me wrong.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline B

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2014, 09:35:55 PM »
I don't think the Packer's principal issues are directly MM's fault. I would say the biggest problems have been and are on the defensive side of the ball and while he is indeed the head coach, defense is neither MM's forte nor his chief responsibility.

The problems on D have to be attributed primarily to either the Defensive Coordinator Capers or the GM TT or both.

That said, for those who continue to praise MM and consider him an elite coach because he won a Super Bowl four seasons ago, how long does he get a pass for that victory, indefinitely?

MM is 1-3 in the playoffs since the Super Bowl run and his teams have not come close to even making a NFC Championship game despite having a QB who is widely considered to be among the top 2-3 in the game.

If you believe that record is acceptable, then I can see why MM gets your praise.

I was not and am not pleased with any of the following losses:

 -- not when they lost to the eventual Super Bowl Champion Giants  20 - 37 (a game short of the NFC championship game) in 2011
 -- not when they lost to San Francisco 49ers 31 - 45, after defeating the Vikings 24 - 10 in 2012
 -- nor when they lost again to San Francisco 49ers 20 - 23 ...

but that is the nature of playoff football. The Packers won their division championship in each of those seasons and were in a position to compete for number 14, but they came up short all three seasons.

I don't make excuses for any of those losses, but like the team I've moved on...

I am looking for the 2014 team to keep growing and getting better, and go back to battle and try to get it done this season.

McCarthy is an elite coach, just as are all of the team on the list who brought home a Super Bowl ring - Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin, John Harbaugh, Sean Payton, Pete Carroll...
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Offline Zyvlyn

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2014, 07:09:33 AM »
Not sure where the best place for this is, but here seems as good as any.

Brady Poppinga offers his thoughts on what went wrong in New Orleans.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/packers-mike-mccarthy-out-of-character-in-saints-loss

A lot of what he says makes sense.  McCarthy's decisions during that game struck me as coming from someone who was expecting to lose the game.

Offline get louder at lambeau

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2014, 07:53:59 AM »
The numbers are pretty damned straight forward.

Of the 104 head coaches hired since 2000 only 9 have won Super Bowls (and that is counting Jon Gruden and Tony Dungy).

So for starters Mike is at a minimum in an elite group of 7 of 104 ... ahead of Fox, Jim Harbaugh and Rex Ryan who have never won a championship.

M.M.'s 6 playoff wins places him 5th of 104 coaches, only behind 1.)Bill Belichick (19); 2.) Tom Coughlin (12); 3.) Andy Reid (10); 4. John Fox (-8-) ...

You can try to dismiss or spin this as mediocrity if you like (must be some kind of new math you're using ;)), just as one can try to dismiss MM's which is top 5 as well.

I am not married to MM as the Head Coach, I am simply saying trying to find someone to match his success is a HUGE task, let alone trying to hire someone to exceed his success... just saying...

were you a huge MM supporter when he was hired? Just asking

No, I was not. I thought TT was reaching with the hire - Mike while certainly not without faults, proved me wrong.

And there I think most of  the Packer fan base would have at the time agreed with you. My point is that it can happen again. Maybe not Capers or McCarthy, but some other, currently unknown person, that can, with faults, prove all of us wrong. Capers to many is long in the tooth, to fewer the same might apply to MM. To fewer yet, TT. So like most things, it may not be for everyone, but change may be good, not for changes sake, but for the team's sake.
Why can't Ted Thompson be the MVP of the NFL?

Offline Zyvlyn

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2014, 08:25:16 AM »
In terms of wins and losses, McCarthy has done well in this league.   A lot of that has to do with his future HOF QB (who McCarthy recommended passing over in the draft in favor of Alex Smith) but it's not easily separated out.  Without Rodgers or Favre, McCarthy is 3-7-1 in the regular season.  McCarthy has never had to coach a playoff game without Rodgers or Favre.

I personally think of McCarthy as an above average, but not elite, coach.  A lot of this has to do with his inability to implement an effective counter to the cover-2, a series of poorly thought out challenges, his inability to groom a backup QB better than Matt Flynn, and his inexplicable love of having Kuhn run up the middle on 3rd and short (mercifully reduced since the arrival of Lacy).

For an above average coach, you don't fire him unless you can find someone better.  I personally think Rex Ryan is better, which I caught a lot of crap for, but other than him I don't forsee a ton of coaching talent immediately available.  So I won't be upset when McCarthy's contract is extended later this year.

Capers is a different story though.

Offline claymaker

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2014, 08:38:41 AM »
Offense sputtered in the redzone: Peppers dropped TD pass, McCarthy's fault. Quarless tipped pass INT, McCarthy's fault. Adams' tipped ball INT on a good drive, McCarthy's fault. The game was close.

One thing I think McCarthy missed on was not being aggressive enough in the redzone. I would of liked to see them go for it on 4th down at least once.

Offline Pugger

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2014, 08:41:29 AM »
Offense sputtered in the redzone: Peppers dropped TD pass, McCarthy's fault. Quarless tipped pass INT, McCarthy's fault. Adams' tipped ball INT on a good drive, McCarthy's fault. The game was close.

One thing I think McCarthy missed on was not being aggressive enough in the redzone. I would of liked to see them go for it on 4th down at least once.

 sarcasm

Surely you jest...

Offline get louder at lambeau

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2014, 08:50:57 AM »
Offense sputtered in the redzone: Peppers dropped TD pass, McCarthy's fault. Quarless tipped pass INT, McCarthy's fault. Adams' tipped ball INT on a good drive, McCarthy's fault. The game was close.

One thing I think McCarthy missed on was not being aggressive enough in the redzone. I would of liked to see them go for it on 4th down at least once.
I get the sarcism but really who's fault would it be on Peppers' dropped pass. It would either be the call or the player. You can't count on a LB/DL to make that play. If they ran Mason Crosby up the middle on 4th and 2 and he hit the wrong hole, would it be on Crosby? You've got to put the team/player in position to make plays. That was not an example of it. When Jordy Nelson plays outside linebacker and doesn't pressure QBs I hope you find room to call Jordy out on that too. All of your other examples of sarcism fall short as I don't think there was a single post calling out MM for the tipped passes.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 08:52:59 AM by get louder at lambeau »
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Offline Zyvlyn

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2014, 08:53:56 AM »
Offense sputtered in the redzone: Peppers dropped TD pass, McCarthy's fault. Quarless tipped pass INT, McCarthy's fault. Adams' tipped ball INT on a good drive, McCarthy's fault. The game was close.

One thing I think McCarthy missed on was not being aggressive enough in the redzone. I would of liked to see them go for it on 4th down at least once.

You could make the case that that one IS McCarthy's fault.  Since Peppers is a DE turned OLB who lined up at WR.  Was anyone really surprised when it turned out he didn't have the best hands?  Anyone besides McCarthy, I mean.

Offline Zyvlyn

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2014, 08:56:52 AM »
Offense sputtered in the redzone: Peppers dropped TD pass, McCarthy's fault. Quarless tipped pass INT, McCarthy's fault. Adams' tipped ball INT on a good drive, McCarthy's fault. The game was close.

One thing I think McCarthy missed on was not being aggressive enough in the redzone. I would of liked to see them go for it on 4th down at least once.
I get the sarcism but really who's fault would it be on Peppers' dropped pass. It would either be the call or the player. You can't count on a LB/DL to make that play. If they ran Mason Crosby up the middle on 4th and 2 and he hit the wrong hole, would it be on Crosby? You've got to put the team/player in position to make plays. That was not an example of it. When Jordy Nelson plays outside linebacker and doesn't pressure QBs I hope you find room to call Jordy out on that too. All of your other examples of sarcism fall short as I don't think there was a single post calling out MM for the tipped passes.

Damn.  Beat me to it and put it better than I did.  Good post.

Offline Twain

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2014, 09:03:04 AM »
Offense sputtered in the redzone: Peppers dropped TD pass, McCarthy's fault. Quarless tipped pass INT, McCarthy's fault. Adams' tipped ball INT on a good drive, McCarthy's fault. The game was close.

One thing I think McCarthy missed on was not being aggressive enough in the redzone. I would of liked to see them go for it on 4th down at least once.
I get the sarcism but really who's fault would it be on Peppers' dropped pass. It would either be the call or the player. You can't count on a LB/DL to make that play. If they ran Mason Crosby up the middle on 4th and 2 and he hit the wrong hole, would it be on Crosby? You've got to put the team/player in position to make plays. That was not an example of it. When Jordy Nelson plays outside linebacker and doesn't pressure QBs I hope you find room to call Jordy out on that too. All of your other examples of sarcism fall short as I don't think there was a single post calling out MM for the tipped passes.

Seriously though, did you notice that when Peppers ran the play it was incomplete, and when Quarless ran the play it was picked?  Maybe having Peppers there wasn't so bad.  Play may have been a bad idea as the DB wasn't as weak as MM thought, but the problem might be Ted's for not having a more viable tight end.

Face it, we all think if MM goes away we will get the next Holmgren or Belichick.  I'm just not certain the next guy might not be the next Ray Rhodes.
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Offline SSG

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2014, 09:08:30 AM »
Offense sputtered in the redzone: Peppers dropped TD pass, McCarthy's fault. Quarless tipped pass INT, McCarthy's fault. Adams' tipped ball INT on a good drive, McCarthy's fault. The game was close.

One thing I think McCarthy missed on was not being aggressive enough in the redzone. I would of liked to see them go for it on 4th down at least once.

In modern day NFL history has any NFL coach ever asked a DE beat a CB on a slant route?  Mike Daniels is a tremendous athlete, maybe next week he'll put him on the outside and have him run the post.  WHEN it doesn't work out 100% of the blame can be put on Daniels for his head coach making a pee wee football type play call.  To take the responsibility for that ridiculous play call off McCarthy's shoulders is absolutely crazy.  There is likely a reason I can't ever remember a NFL coach calling a play which requires a 34 year old DE beat a CB on a slant route.  Maybe McCarthy is innovative and you'll start seeing NTs, DEs and DTs out running pass routes all over the NFL.  It might be the NFL's new version of the wildcat.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 09:10:39 AM by SSG »
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Offline Twain

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Re: FIRE MIKE MCCARTHY
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2014, 09:13:58 AM »

In modern day NFL history has any NFL coach ever asked a DE beat a CB on a slant route?  Mike Daniels is a tremendous athlete, maybe next week he'll put him on the outside and have him run the post.  WHEN it doesn't work out 100% of the blame can be put on Daniels for his head coach making a pee wee football type play call.  To take the responsibility for that ridiculous play call off McCarthy's shoulders is absolutely crazy.  There is likely a reason I can't ever remember a NFL coach calling a play which requires a 34 year old DE beat a CB on a slant route.  Maybe McCarthy is innovative and you'll start seeing NTs, DEs and DTs out running pass routes all over the NFL.  It might be the NFL's new version of the wildcat.

If that happened credit would go to Bill Obrien, not McCarthy.   McCarthy is just a copy cat.
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."