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AldenRoche

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"Special" Teams
« on: December 22, 2014, 04:45:41 PM »
How many others are now to the point they hope kickoffs will go out of the end zone and punts fair caught?

I like DuJuan Harris but he can't return at all it appears. Of course, Devin Hester would have a hard-time getting to the 20 with the piss poor blocking on our KO returns.

On punts I prefer Hyde. He is sure handed and runs North South picking up what is there. Cobb has other priorities and is just not any good any more. What our gunners do outside of getting holding calls is tough to discern.

The coverage teams have been better than the return game, but hardly stellar.

As for the kicking game, Crosby can't miss any more makeable FGs. Not when his kickoffs are no longer up to NFL standards. Poor Masthay seems to have just lost it. Then there are the blocked kicks, truly shocking.

STs have never been a strength under MM but considering the lack of injuries this season, the poor performance has really been an unpleasant surprise.

To what do folks attribute these collective woes?

Offline Lodestar

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2014, 06:21:36 PM »
Looking at the numbers, Harris (19 returns, 20.7 average) is 19th out of 20 qualified kick returners in terms of average. Interesting that the last-place guy is Ted Ginn, who has made an NFL career out of being a good returner and bad receiver. Anyway, I agree we need to find a replacement next offseason. Harris struggles just getting past the 20-yard line.

Neither Hyde (13 returns, 12.8 average) nor Cobb (14 returns, 8.0 average) have enough punt returns to qualify among PR leaders (looks like the cutoff is 20 returns), but if they did Hyde would be 2nd and Cobb would be tied for 16th. I like Hyde back there.

I don't know what's gotten into Crosby, but hopefully he makes his kicks next Sunday and has confidence going into the playoffs.

Offline JQ

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2014, 07:38:46 PM »
How many others are now to the point they hope kickoffs will go out of the end zone and punts fair caught?

I like DuJuan Harris but he can't return at all it appears. Of course, Devin Hester would have a hard-time getting to the 20 with the piss poor blocking on our KO returns.

On punts I prefer Hyde. He is sure handed and runs North South picking up what is there. Cobb has other priorities and is just not any good any more. What our gunners do outside of getting holding calls is tough to discern.

The coverage teams have been better than the return game, but hardly stellar.

As for the kicking game, Crosby can't miss any more makeable FGs. Not when his kickoffs are no longer up to NFL standards. Poor Masthay seems to have just lost it. Then there are the blocked kicks, truly shocking.

STs have never been a strength under MM but considering the lack of injuries this season, the poor performance has really been an unpleasant surprise.

To what do folks attribute these collective woes?

Agreed that Harris isn't the answer at KR, but who else do the Packers have on the squad to return kick-offs?
 
And I'm glad you used the qualifier "seems to have just lost it" regarding Masthay. He has had a tough year, to be sure, but I think it's too early to tell if "he's lost it." Folks on this message board were ready to tar and feather Crosby as well at the start of last year.

I wonder if a part of Masthay's, and maybe Crosby's, inconsistencies are related to a lack of confidence in the line blocking, which has led to a league-leading SIX blocked punts, field goals, and PATS. I have also wondered if maybe Goode is struggling as Long Snapper. That's another possible variable that may be out of sync.

Here's an article posted on Silversteins blog:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/285868101.html

Also a link to an article I posted after the Atlanta game:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/blocked-kicks-become-urgent-problem-for-packers-to-solve-b99407776z1-285696151.html

In the article Masthay states,"Without going into too much detail, we've punted out of a lot of different formations this year. That was another formation we punted out of and there was just a little bit of miscommunication."

I don't know anything about punt formations, but I wonder why the Packers would be changing things up "a lot." To me that seems like it would add to confusion. I noticed that "coach" Slocum assigns responsibility to his players , Masthay holding the ball, Sitton and Lang being pulled from the line-blocking (even though many blocks occurred prior to their injuries), and other player miscues.

We shall see if the "Special Teams" improve against the kittens and beyond, and if not who/what "coach" Slocum blames...uh, er, has to say.

Online Shinesman

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2014, 12:52:33 AM »
How many others are now to the point they hope kickoffs will go out of the end zone and punts fair caught?

I like DuJuan Harris but he can't return at all it appears. Of course, Devin Hester would have a hard-time getting to the 20 with the piss poor blocking on our KO returns.

On punts I prefer Hyde. He is sure handed and runs North South picking up what is there. Cobb has other priorities and is just not any good any more. What our gunners do outside of getting holding calls is tough to discern.

The coverage teams have been better than the return game, but hardly stellar.

As for the kicking game, Crosby can't miss any more makeable FGs. Not when his kickoffs are no longer up to NFL standards. Poor Masthay seems to have just lost it. Then there are the blocked kicks, truly shocking.

STs have never been a strength under MM but considering the lack of injuries this season, the poor performance has really been an unpleasant surprise.

To what do folks attribute these collective woes?

Agreed that Harris isn't the answer at KR, but who else do the Packers have on the squad to return kick-offs?
 
And I'm glad you used the qualifier "seems to have just lost it" regarding Masthay. He has had a tough year, to be sure, but I think it's too early to tell if "he's lost it." Folks on this message board were ready to tar and feather Crosby as well at the start of last year.

I wonder if a part of Masthay's, and maybe Crosby's, inconsistencies are related to a lack of confidence in the line blocking, which has led to a league-leading SIX blocked punts, field goals, and PATS. I have also wondered if maybe Goode is struggling as Long Snapper. That's another possible variable that may be out of sync.

Here's an article posted on Silversteins blog:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/285868101.html

Also a link to an article I posted after the Atlanta game:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/blocked-kicks-become-urgent-problem-for-packers-to-solve-b99407776z1-285696151.html

In the article Masthay states,"Without going into too much detail, we've punted out of a lot of different formations this year. That was another formation we punted out of and there was just a little bit of miscommunication."

I don't know anything about punt formations, but I wonder why the Packers would be changing things up "a lot." To me that seems like it would add to confusion. I noticed that "coach" Slocum assigns responsibility to his players , Masthay holding the ball, Sitton and Lang being pulled from the line-blocking (even though many blocks occurred prior to their injuries), and other player miscues.

We shall see if the "Special Teams" improve against the kittens and beyond, and if not who/what "coach" Slocum blames...uh, er, has to say.

Jeff Janis could return kicks, guy has blazing speed, may as well use it for something, it will help him get gametime experience.
"Tradition! Just because we've always done it that way, doesn't mean that it isn't incredibly stupid."

Offline Pugger

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 08:28:59 AM »
How many others are now to the point they hope kickoffs will go out of the end zone and punts fair caught?

I like DuJuan Harris but he can't return at all it appears. Of course, Devin Hester would have a hard-time getting to the 20 with the piss poor blocking on our KO returns.

On punts I prefer Hyde. He is sure handed and runs North South picking up what is there. Cobb has other priorities and is just not any good any more. What our gunners do outside of getting holding calls is tough to discern.

The coverage teams have been better than the return game, but hardly stellar.

As for the kicking game, Crosby can't miss any more makeable FGs. Not when his kickoffs are no longer up to NFL standards. Poor Masthay seems to have just lost it. Then there are the blocked kicks, truly shocking.

STs have never been a strength under MM but considering the lack of injuries this season, the poor performance has really been an unpleasant surprise.

To what do folks attribute these collective woes?

Agreed that Harris isn't the answer at KR, but who else do the Packers have on the squad to return kick-offs?
 
And I'm glad you used the qualifier "seems to have just lost it" regarding Masthay. He has had a tough year, to be sure, but I think it's too early to tell if "he's lost it." Folks on this message board were ready to tar and feather Crosby as well at the start of last year.

I wonder if a part of Masthay's, and maybe Crosby's, inconsistencies are related to a lack of confidence in the line blocking, which has led to a league-leading SIX blocked punts, field goals, and PATS. I have also wondered if maybe Goode is struggling as Long Snapper. That's another possible variable that may be out of sync.

Here's an article posted on Silversteins blog:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/285868101.html

Also a link to an article I posted after the Atlanta game:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/blocked-kicks-become-urgent-problem-for-packers-to-solve-b99407776z1-285696151.html

In the article Masthay states,"Without going into too much detail, we've punted out of a lot of different formations this year. That was another formation we punted out of and there was just a little bit of miscommunication."

I don't know anything about punt formations, but I wonder why the Packers would be changing things up "a lot." To me that seems like it would add to confusion. I noticed that "coach" Slocum assigns responsibility to his players , Masthay holding the ball, Sitton and Lang being pulled from the line-blocking (even though many blocks occurred prior to their injuries), and other player miscues.

We shall see if the "Special Teams" improve against the kittens and beyond, and if not who/what "coach" Slocum blames...uh, er, has to say.

Jeff Janis could return kicks, guy has blazing speed, may as well use it for something, it will help him get gametime experience.

GMTA

Unfortunately I suspect Jeff isn't getting playing time because of House's injury.  I heard House will be back for the playoffs so perhaps Jeff will get some playing time then?

Offline Toddfather

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2015, 06:40:03 AM »
I know it sounds crazy but could puntless games be hurting mathsay as well? Maybe it is just a crappy year, but ST does scare me at times.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2015, 04:07:07 PM »
Kickers are like golfers.

It's their confidence that affects their play the most. It's between the ears for the most part.

Offline Leader

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2015, 06:09:15 AM »
Kickers are like golfers.

It's their confidence that affects their play the most. It's between the ears for the most part.

Not disagreeing with the above "per se" - theres a mental component to every players tasks and I've no doubt the mental stresses of wandering on a football field no more than a handful of times per game - to execute fundamentals and techniques successfully in front of 50-70,000 people - probably weighs on the brain of most FG kickers - or certainly could - but - I still believe its the proper functioning or application of their talents and techniques that result in success or not.

It aint easy to kick a ball thru FG posts from 40-50+ yards away....there's "things to do" in getting that done properly - but continual practice relieves the mental stresses when actually doing it.

The interesting thing about golf is you could practice all you'd like - but next day they move the cup on you!  :)

Offline dannobanano

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2015, 07:23:09 AM »
Kickers are like golfers.

It's their confidence that affects their play the most. It's between the ears for the most part.

Not disagreeing with the above "per se" - theres a mental component to every players tasks and I've no doubt the mental stresses of wandering on a football field no more than a handful of times per game - to execute fundamentals and techniques successfully in front of 50-70,000 people - probably weighs on the brain of most FG kickers - or certainly could - but - I still believe its the proper functioning or application of their talents and techniques that result in success or not.

It aint easy to kick a ball thru FG posts from 40-50+ yards away....there's "things to do" in getting that done properly - but continual practice relieves the mental stresses when actually doing it.

The interesting thing about golf is you could practice all you'd like - but next day they move the cup on you:)

LOL!!

Worked my way through college as a greenskeeper and was varisty/captain (sr.) all 4 years for college golf team.

And that is why I made the claim, and you reinforced the premise of it...................... "its the proper functioning or application of their talents and techniques that result in success or not."

There is a mental issue in making sure that you do all the mechanics correctly, whether it's making the correct golf swing, or making the correct plant/kick on a field goal. It goes beyond just "muscle memory" from practice/repetition, it's a between the ears confidence factor that sometimes makes players over-think what they are doing and allows doubt and unnecessary corrections, or over corrections, to creep into the process. Plus, in football, just like in golf, the weather conditions play a role (wind/rain/etc.) that adds to the over-thinking process.

I wonder what would happen if they moved the goalposts from one week to the next?   ;D

Offline Beagle

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2015, 09:38:11 AM »
As far as Special Teams goes, it's not the punting and kicking that bothers me. It's the punt coverage and the kick coverage that scares me.
“It’s not whether you get knocked down, it’s whether you get up.” -V. Lombardi

Offline Kepler

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2015, 12:53:58 PM »
As far as Special Teams goes, it's not the punting and kicking that bothers me. It's the punt coverage and the kick coverage that scares me.

I'll add blocking to that list

Offline dannobanano

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2015, 04:05:46 PM »
That about covers everything!!

AldenRoche

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2015, 10:00:27 PM »
Final regular season rankings are out. Hope STs do not bite us in the arse in the playoffs, but #31 out of 32 without many injuries and 2 veteran kickers is ridiculous.

RANK TEAM NET PUNT OPP NET KICKOFF KO RETURN FG PCT AVERAGE

1   Baltimore   1   22   1   4   15   8.6
2   Philadelphia 18   4   9   6   7   8.8
3   Buffalo   21   6   5   10   6   9.6
4   Indianapolis   3   32   3   9   1   9.6
5   Cincinnati   5   2   16   3   26   10.4
6   New England   12   3   19   17   2   10.6
7   St. Louis   4   1   14   13   25   11.4
8   Atlanta   6   8   25   18   4   12.2
9   Kansas City8   14   26   1   18   13.4
10   Dallas   14   11   6   24   13   13.6
11   New Orleans2   29   11   21   10   14.6
12   Minnesota   19   10   15   2   31   15.4
13   N.Y. Giants22   26   8   20   3   15.8
14   Seattle   24   16   12   12   17   16.2
15   Tennessee   7   25   28   11   10   16.2
16   San Francisco15   20   7   19   24   17.0
17   N.Y. Jets   13   31   17   5   22   17.6
18   Oakland   11   12   27   30   10   18.0
19   Arizona   29   17   4   32   9   18.2
20   Washington10   21   32   22   7   18.4
21   Miami   23   9   29   8   27   19.2
22   Pittsburgh   25   15   24   28   4   19.2
23   Cleveland   17   19   2   31   28   19.4
24   Jacksonville16   30   10   14   29   19.8
25   Denver   28   24   21   7   21   20.2
26   Tampa Bay30   7   23   25   18   20.6
27   Houston   20   28   13   29   14   20.8
28   Detroit   9   18   20   26   32   21.0
29   Chicago   27   13   22   15   30   21.4
30   Carolina   32   23   18   16   20   21.8
31   Green Bay   31   5   30   23   23   22.4
32   San Diego   26   27   31   27   16   25.4
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 10:03:17 PM by AldenRoche »

Offline Pugger

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2015, 07:41:50 AM »
To be blunt I have no clue why Slocum still is our ST coordinator.  Fans have been grousing about his units for years.  Does he have compromising photos of McCarthy or something?   :P  Seriously, IMO this decision to keep Slocum as our ST coach all these years is a black mark against McCarthy in my eyes.  I'm a fan of Mike's otherwise.    :-\

Offline JQ

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Re: "Special" Teams
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2015, 07:05:17 AM »
Quote from: Pugger link=topic=not3557.msg95753#msg95753 date=1420645310
To be blunt I have no clue why Slocum still is our ST coordinator...

Agreed Pugger, also remember Ron Zook was hired after last season as "Special Teams Assistant Coach" to bring his "expertise" to the Packers. I wonder if they can get their money back, since they've "had 3 or 4 seasons worth" of blocked kicks this year, according to Larry McCarren. It's unknown how much input Zook has had on special teams this year, but he obviously has not helped, and possibly/probably has contributed to the lousy line-blocking on place kicks and punts.

Posters/readers here probably know I'm not much on complaining and whining, but these blocked kicks REALLY GRATE ON ME! After the season BOTH Zook and Slocum should both be down the road in my opinion.

Count me as one that will be holding my breath every time the Packers punt or FG/PAT...  / - : #
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 07:32:24 AM by JQ »