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Author Topic: Todd McShay's First Mock  (Read 10067 times)

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Offline golfman

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2012, 12:52:46 PM »
Tough to go wrong when drafting big men.
We could certainly use an upgrade at center and a backup at guard.
He's a pick that I can get excited about.

Safe pick.  Value pick.  Need pick.

Thanks for posting.

Many teams miss on big guys, the Packers are no exception. In theory I like builiding in the trenches. It's really no more of a lock pick than say a CB or OLBer.

All I was saying!

Justin Harrell?
Always comes back to him, right?
How about trying this...  Bryan Bulaga?
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Offline vegas492

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 12:57:27 PM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.

Offline golfman

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 02:32:37 PM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.


I do not disagree with this one bit, but you're kinda singing a different tune to the original tune a responded too. Not that that is a bad thing.

Me personally, if we're going interior offensive lineman and it is not a true center I want a road grater.
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Offline Terranimal

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2012, 03:37:43 PM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.

I'm not against drafting a Guard. But Thompson seems to favor Tackles over Guards. The last Guard I remember the Pack drafting in round one goes back to Wolf era and Aaron Taylor. Taylor was on the road to being an All pro until that nasty knee injury.

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 02:07:05 AM »
Thompson likes the athleticism of tackles to plug in at tackle or guard. If he wants a center, I expect him to get a center or a guard to develop, not a tackle (Barrett Jones is unusual in playing C and OT).

golfman. I appreciate why you want a road grader type at C. Unfortunately, more coaches seem to value athleticism more highly there. Talented, big, strong and athletic centers are rare and sought after. They will rate a high pick (round one or two at the latest). This is why I like the Cooper guy, he could get bigger, but he is strong and he is athletic. Now, can he play center (he has played a few snaps there)  ?

Here is a link to a scouting report
http://insidethewarroom.wordpress.com/2012/11/24/jonathan-cooper-scouting-report/
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 02:24:39 AM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline golfman

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 03:13:21 AM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.

I'm not against drafting a Guard. But Thompson seems to favor Tackles over Guards. The last Guard I remember the Pack drafting in round one goes back to Wolf era and Aaron Taylor. Taylor was on the road to being an All pro until that nasty knee injury.

He played LT at Notre Dame and was projected by many to be a left tackle in the NFL. Last guard I remember the Pack taking in round one was Ron Hallstrom from Iowa.

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 06:08:40 AM »
I agree that athleticism at OC is a more valuable commodity, hence the reason so many centers are undersized compared to their OG counterparts.  Lots of reach blocks and getting out to the 2nd level to block LBs.  The slower road graders just don't do well at that.  I'm only in favor of taking an inside guy that early IF he can play OC, otherwise if he's an OG then you have a lot of money and talent invested in 3 OG's for 2 spots. 

I've not seen much info on Cooper playing OC but I'll trust to others that he can be a factor there.  If that's the case, then I'm on board.  If not, then I'd rather look elsewhere and draft a depth guy for OG in Rd 3 or later.

Offline vegas492

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 06:29:05 AM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.
Here's what I've always thought....
When drafting at the end of the first round, like the Packers are prone to do, there are very few "safe" guys left to take.  And given that, I like taking interior offensive linemen.  These guys hardly bust and can take care of your quarterback.

There is more risk in taking defensive linemen late in the draft, IMO.  I still like the big guys, but have to admit that the DL tends to bust at a higher rate than the OL.

Case in point, it was two years ago and there were two guys projected to be available near the end of round 1 and early round two that I thought could not bust.  Wisnewski and Brooks Reed.  I was in favor of drafting one of these guys, then packaging up and getting the other.  I'm not sure what each of these guys did this year, but last year they were both quite good.  And right now Wis would look great in the green and gold.  Not a sexy pick, but a nice safe pick.

Offline DenverPackFan

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 11:03:06 AM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.

I'm not against drafting a Guard. But Thompson seems to favor Tackles over Guards. The last Guard I remember the Pack drafting in round one goes back to Wolf era and Aaron Taylor. Taylor was on the road to being an All pro until that nasty knee injury.

This is how I think, too.  While I'm not opposed to drafting a Guard, either, TT seems to draft Tackles in round 4 or later.  That might provide better value.  Examples are Lang and Sitton for the Packers and Carl Nicks for the Saints/Bucs.  I'm sure that there are many other examples - those were just off the top of my head.

Offline vegas492

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 11:09:54 AM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.

I'm not against drafting a Guard. But Thompson seems to favor Tackles over Guards. The last Guard I remember the Pack drafting in round one goes back to Wolf era and Aaron Taylor. Taylor was on the road to being an All pro until that nasty knee injury.

This is how I think, too.  While I'm not opposed to drafting a Guard, either, TT seems to draft Tackles in round 4 or later.  That might provide better value.  Examples are Lang and Sitton for the Packers and Carl Nicks for the Saints/Bucs.  I'm sure that there are many other examples - those were just off the top of my head.
You are right. You can grab guards later.
And I'm not saying that my point of view is correct on the subject, or that it is shared by TT and other GM's.

But if I had the opportunity to take the third best safety, third best running back, fifth best offensive tackle...etc or the best guard in the draft, personally I'd take the best guard.

Which is why I like Cooper in this draft.  And if not Cooper, Jones intrigues me.   I think that those big guys are good value at the end of this draft.

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2012, 11:11:49 AM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.
Here's what I've always thought....
When drafting at the end of the first round, like the Packers are prone to do, there are very few "safe" guys left to take.  And given that, I like taking interior offensive linemen.  These guys hardly bust and can take care of your quarterback.

There is more risk in taking defensive linemen late in the draft, IMO.  I still like the big guys, but have to admit that the DL tends to bust at a higher rate than the OL.

Case in point, it was two years ago and there were two guys projected to be available near the end of round 1 and early round two that I thought could not bust.  Wisnewski and Brooks Reed.  I was in favor of drafting one of these guys, then packaging up and getting the other.  I'm not sure what each of these guys did this year, but last year they were both quite good.  And right now Wis would look great in the green and gold.  Not a sexy pick, but a nice safe pick.
I've also thought that OG and OC were safe picks at the end of rd 1 depending on the draft. Until recently those positions usually weren't taken higher in the 1st rd with a few exceptions. Would you rather have the 4th or 5th OT or DE or the highest rated OC. It's hard for a fan base to get excited about a center but they can lock down the middle of your line for a decade.
Last year I was hoping to get Sherrod, Wisnewski and Brooks Reed would also have been very good picks but I wanted a bookend to Bulaga. In '10 the group I was watching the draft with all wanted Dez Bryant, I was the lone guy hoping for Bulaga. The big uglies aren't as easy to get excited about for the fans but you win games in the trenches. If you are taking a skill position player on either offense or defense in rd 1 they better be a can't miss type of prospect.

Offline vegas492

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2012, 11:20:50 AM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.
Here's what I've always thought....
When drafting at the end of the first round, like the Packers are prone to do, there are very few "safe" guys left to take.  And given that, I like taking interior offensive linemen.  These guys hardly bust and can take care of your quarterback.

There is more risk in taking defensive linemen late in the draft, IMO.  I still like the big guys, but have to admit that the DL tends to bust at a higher rate than the OL.

Case in point, it was two years ago and there were two guys projected to be available near the end of round 1 and early round two that I thought could not bust.  Wisnewski and Brooks Reed.  I was in favor of drafting one of these guys, then packaging up and getting the other.  I'm not sure what each of these guys did this year, but last year they were both quite good.  And right now Wis would look great in the green and gold.  Not a sexy pick, but a nice safe pick.
I've also thought that OG and OC were safe picks at the end of rd 1 depending on the draft. Until recently those positions usually weren't taken higher in the 1st rd with a few exceptions. Would you rather have the 4th or 5th OT or DE or the highest rated OC. It's hard for a fan base to get excited about a center but they can lock down the middle of your line for a decade.
Last year I was hoping to get Sherrod, Wisnewski and Brooks Reed would also have been very good picks but I wanted a bookend to Bulaga. In '10 the group I was watching the draft with all wanted Dez Bryant, I was the lone guy hoping for Bulaga. The big uglies aren't as easy to get excited about for the fans but you win games in the trenches. If you are taking a skill position player on either offense or defense in rd 1 they better be a can't miss type of prospect.
You weren't alone man!  I was watching the draft with a few of my best friends and we were all hoping that Bulaga's slide brought him to our pick.  None of us thought he would, though.
And that was the strange thing about Bulaga.  I don't recall reading anything about that draft that had him sliding that far.  Thank goodness for "short" arms!  :)

Antonio Andolini

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2012, 12:01:38 PM »
Yeah the poor guy is like a TRex out there trying to block DEs. ;D

Antonio Andolini

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2012, 12:06:26 PM »
I know its early in the process but Cooper is the guy I'm pulling for. I hope his stock doesn't elevate to the point where we won't be able to land him. Richardson DE Missouri is a very close second but people are mocking him in the top 1/2 of rd 1 now.

Offline DenverPackFan

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Re: Todd McShay's First Mock
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2012, 12:30:30 PM »
I have zero facts to back this up, but I'll venture a guess that interior offensive linemen bust at a much lower rate than defensive linemen.  Just my opinion.

It isn't a sexy pick, but I like drafting good quality guys that keep #12 upright.

I'm not against drafting a Guard. But Thompson seems to favor Tackles over Guards. The last Guard I remember the Pack drafting in round one goes back to Wolf era and Aaron Taylor. Taylor was on the road to being an All pro until that nasty knee injury.

This is how I think, too.  While I'm not opposed to drafting a Guard, either, TT seems to draft Tackles in round 4 or later.  That might provide better value.  Examples are Lang and Sitton for the Packers and Carl Nicks for the Saints/Bucs.  I'm sure that there are many other examples - those were just off the top of my head.
You are right. You can grab guards later.
And I'm not saying that my point of view is correct on the subject, or that it is shared by TT and other GM's.

But if I had the opportunity to take the third best safety, third best running back, fifth best offensive tackle...etc or the best guard in the draft, personally I'd take the best guard.

Which is why I like Cooper in this draft.  And if not Cooper, Jones intrigues me.   I think that those big guys are good value at the end of this draft.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.  Cooper, Jones, maybe Warford (Kentucky) - they could all help us.  But I don't think TT will take a OG early unless he can play Center, too.  Just my opinion.