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Author Topic: Tramon is a Brown  (Read 12030 times)

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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2015, 06:37:59 PM »
Good for Tramon, but that's way too big of a deal. Im glad GB didnt match. I dont see a realistic chance that Tramon actually plays out that deal.

Rolle was a nice prospect and maybe we should've activated him when Houston plucked him, but let's NOT immediately assume that Goodson is not as good of a player. He just had a stiffer competition to see the field. I'm interested in seeing him compete.

I think the Packers will give Hayward first crack at the job. Can he play on the boundary? That's the question. He's done a nice job in the slot. He did run a 4.47 coming out of college, but it would seem that he isn't as sudden as you would like, but he is a terrific ball hawk.

I also think we definitely draft a CB in rounds 1-3. Marcus Peters, P.J. Williams and Kevin Johnson are probably the 3 best boundary guys that could be there when GB picks at 30. I like Quentin Rollins as a player, but at 4.64, I think he's a slot or Tampa 2 CB only.

Ike Taylor MIGHT be worth a 1 year deal for the vet minimum? Other than that there either way washed up (which Taylor is too) or way to shaky as a player to put any faith in. The CB FA market is sorry.

I think GB should bring back Jarrett Bush, if for nothing more than numbers now. He could be cut later if he doesnt make the club, but he at least offers some experience.

I think he has more "game speed" than timed speed. His athleticism and ball skills (which basketball helped him develop) are what teams are intrigued by. The young man had 72 tackles and 7 INT's last year.............his only year of college football. I saw him make an INT in the Senior Bowl that was purely a thing of beauty. Instincts and athleticism. I'm a buyer.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 06:39:11 PM by dannobanano »

Offline philepps85

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2015, 07:30:39 PM »
How about Tillman from DA' Bears?   I know he is older but is a probowler.

Yeah, good call. Tillman was one I brought up in another thread. Not sure what he has left, but he's a wily vet with an amazing knack for forcing turnovers.

Online scoremore

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2015, 07:46:27 PM »
Tore his biceps twice...he's probably done.

Closest thing in the draft is PJ Williams...

Offline Hincha

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2015, 08:15:15 PM »
Don't blame TT for not paying what those two got. Both got more than their production (House) and age (Williams) should have warranted.

Both should be good for some compensatory picks next year.

I would have liked Williams back last year, but not at that price. 

Read an article that last year was by far his worst.  QBs had 100+ rating when throwing at him.  But still, in looking at his score for year... it was still positive.

Offline Gregg

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2015, 09:12:34 PM »
That didn't take long.

One mock has us taking Jalen Collins in the first round already.

Offline JPPlaya

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2015, 09:35:14 PM »
Good for Tramon, but that's way too big of a deal. Im glad GB didnt match. I dont see a realistic chance that Tramon actually plays out that deal.

Rolle was a nice prospect and maybe we should've activated him when Houston plucked him, but let's NOT immediately assume that Goodson is not as good of a player. He just had a stiffer competition to see the field. I'm interested in seeing him compete.

I think the Packers will give Hayward first crack at the job. Can he play on the boundary? That's the question. He's done a nice job in the slot. He did run a 4.47 coming out of college, but it would seem that he isn't as sudden as you would like, but he is a terrific ball hawk.

I also think we definitely draft a CB in rounds 1-3. Marcus Peters, P.J. Williams and Kevin Johnson are probably the 3 best boundary guys that could be there when GB picks at 30. I like Quentin Rollins as a player, but at 4.64, I think he's a slot or Tampa 2 CB only.

Ike Taylor MIGHT be worth a 1 year deal for the vet minimum? Other than that there either way washed up (which Taylor is too) or way to shaky as a player to put any faith in. The CB FA market is sorry.

I think GB should bring back Jarrett Bush, if for nothing more than numbers now. He could be cut later if he doesnt make the club, but he at least offers some experience.

I think he has more "game speed" than timed speed. His athleticism and ball skills (which basketball helped him develop) are what teams are intrigued by. The young man had 72 tackles and 7 INT's last year.............his only year of college football. I saw him make an INT in the Senior Bowl that was purely a thing of beauty. Instincts and athleticism. I'm a buyer.

I agree that Rollins does have good instincts and athleticism, but it's tough to play the boundary without long speed. Could he do it? Sure, I suppose, but I'd like to see a better time at his pro day.

He did some great things in his lone football season, but the MACC is a long way from the NFL. So Im not buying " game speed" vs. that level. Id rather see it on the track to prove it of Im looking at him to be a boundary CB. If he were playing in a major college conference that might be less risky since he would have covered NFL level WRs regularly on the outside. I'm just not buying that he's seen that level of WR routinely in the MACC to say that he has shown "game speed". Again Im not opposed to GB taking him, but we just lost 2 of our best 3 boundary guys and Im not sure thats where Rollins will play in this league.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 09:36:34 PM by JPPlaya »

Offline JPPlaya

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2015, 09:42:05 PM »
How about Tillman from DA' Bears?   I know he is older but is a probowler.  Screw Da' Bears once, screw Da' Bears twice, maybe screw Da' Bear three times and sign Briggs to.  Is Briggs an ILB or OLB? Just like Peppers, they may have something to prove and want a chance for a ring!

NO WAY

Remember we are paying for who these guys ARE and not who they WERE. Peppers was still productive up until the minute we signed him with the Bears. He was also durable.

Briggs and Tillman arent the Briggs and Tillman of 5 years ago. Both injured all the time and producing very little when they do play. I would not be suprised if neither get a reasonable offer elsewhere. If they do, it should be from some other sucker. I think these guys are both DONE,

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2015, 03:33:12 AM »
Good for Tramon, but that's way too big of a deal. Im glad GB didnt match. I dont see a realistic chance that Tramon actually plays out that deal.

Rolle was a nice prospect and maybe we should've activated him when Houston plucked him, but let's NOT immediately assume that Goodson is not as good of a player. He just had a stiffer competition to see the field. I'm interested in seeing him compete.

I think the Packers will give Hayward first crack at the job. Can he play on the boundary? That's the question. He's done a nice job in the slot. He did run a 4.47 coming out of college, but it would seem that he isn't as sudden as you would like, but he is a terrific ball hawk.

I also think we definitely draft a CB in rounds 1-3. Marcus Peters, P.J. Williams and Kevin Johnson are probably the 3 best boundary guys that could be there when GB picks at 30. I like Quentin Rollins as a player, but at 4.64, I think he's a slot or Tampa 2 CB only.

Ike Taylor MIGHT be worth a 1 year deal for the vet minimum? Other than that there either way washed up (which Taylor is too) or way to shaky as a player to put any faith in. The CB FA market is sorry.

I think GB should bring back Jarrett Bush, if for nothing more than numbers now. He could be cut later if he doesnt make the club, but he at least offers some experience.

I think he has more "game speed" than timed speed. His athleticism and ball skills (which basketball helped him develop) are what teams are intrigued by. The young man had 72 tackles and 7 INT's last year.............his only year of college football. I saw him make an INT in the Senior Bowl that was purely a thing of beauty. Instincts and athleticism. I'm a buyer.

I agree that Rollins does have good instincts and athleticism, but it's tough to play the boundary without long speed. Could he do it? Sure, I suppose, but I'd like to see a better time at his pro day.

He did some great things in his lone football season, but the MACC is a long way from the NFL. So Im not buying " game speed" vs. that level. Id rather see it on the track to prove it of Im looking at him to be a boundary CB. If he were playing in a major college conference that might be less risky since he would have covered NFL level WRs regularly on the outside. I'm just not buying that he's seen that level of WR routinely in the MACC to say that he has shown "game speed". Again Im not opposed to GB taking him, but we just lost 2 of our best 3 boundary guys and Im not sure thats where Rollins will play in this league.

His pro day was last week and he stood on his Combine numbers

Offline ChicagoPackerFan

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2015, 04:20:24 AM »
Too much IMO, glad Ted didn't pay that amount.

I bet Ted is saving money to renew some contracts this year before they expire.
You are better off signing if you can before they hit the free market and are over paid.

Offline favre_4_ever

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2015, 05:13:41 AM »
This draft process could be a hell of a lot easier if we just paid Knighton (1 year/4 million) or Wilfork (2 years/9 million) Both are premier run stuffing NTs and both got short term reasonable contracts....

Offline Gregg

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2015, 06:38:51 AM »
Good observation, and I agree with that.

Especially Knighton.

Offline B

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2015, 06:49:33 AM »
I liked the Tramon Williams story and appreciated his play in years past, but at 32 the guy was clearly in decline.

In 2014, not only did he give up the winning TD in OT against the Seahawks, he allowed nealy 2/3 of the passes thrown his way to be completed on the season, surrendering a 106.5 passer rating when he was targeted on the season. His number were career worsts and there is no upside to build on - especially for $7 million a year.

No doubt, his departure coupled with House leaving thins the CB position, but I will not miss the 10 TD passes he gave up (often looking quite ugly in doing so).

I wish you well in adjusting to losing in Cleveland T, but you will be well paid to do so...
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Online craig

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2015, 07:17:40 AM »
There are several arguments being made here.  Should Packers have paid or outbid the Cleveland bid?  Consensus there is no.  Is Tramon a declining player, or likely to be so?  The answer is yes. 

That said, I think you guys are undervaluing the caliber of his play.  He was in man coverage a lot, and for the most part he did really well.  I thought he played very well. 

Second, while having good value-per-dollar contracts is important within the common constraints of the salary cap, the real goal isn't good-per-dollar, the real goal is simply being good. 

Whatever faults you may find in Tramon's play last season, the coaches considered the play of Hayward and Goodson and Glover-Wright to be inferior.  So we've presumably downgraded.   And by downgrading at corner, we're now left with not two but three big holes to fill, and only one first round pick between them. 

So I admit I'm disappointed. 



 

Offline B

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2015, 07:52:37 AM »
There are several arguments being made here.  Should Packers have paid or outbid the Cleveland bid?  Consensus there is no.  Is Tramon a declining player, or likely to be so?  The answer is yes.

Good to have consensus... 

Quote
That said, I think you guys are undervaluing the caliber of his play.  He was in man coverage a lot, and for the most part he did really well.   

I respectfully disagree.
 ~ How is surrendering a QB rating when targeted of 106.5 doing well?
 ~ How is letting receivers catch 64% if the passes thrown to them playing well?
 ~ What about the 10 TD's given up - some of which he didn't even seem to compete on?
 ~ On the final play giving away the NFC Championship Tramon Williams lined up wrong (a fundamental issue taught in High School) and had Wilson and Kearse licking their chops

watch it, if you can stomach it: http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/NFC-Championship-Cant-Miss-Play-Kearse-game-winning-TD/3753a767-1054-40a6-82c4-f55141a06255

No way any professional gives up the middle with no safety help, yet somehow Tramon Williams a seasoned veteran did... Kearse ran uncontested. I watched in disbelief, hoping against hope that Wilson would under or over throw the gift. No such luck, it was too easy of a throw.

Quote
I thought he played very well.


Fair enough, but I am not sure what you are basing that thought on.

Quote
Second, while having good value-per-dollar contracts is important within the common constraints of the salary cap, the real goal isn't good-per-dollar, the real goal is simply being good. 

Agreed. However, Williams' play declined significantly in 2014 and at 32 it was likely to decline more. I have to assume that the Packers thought it was time to move on rather than commit to an aging player who was giving up a QBR of 106.5 and letting his receivers catch 64% of the passes thrown his way. I am thinking that the Packers believe they can do better - especially with the improved pass rush they had in 2014...

Quote
Whatever faults you may find in Tramon's play last season, the coaches considered the play of Hayward and Goodson and Glover-Wright to be inferior.  So we've presumably downgraded.   

Goodson and Glover-Wright were green rookies, so at least last season they saw Williams as better. Hayward was their inside/slot DB and played well - Williams was coming off of a good season in 2013, so I am thinking they didn't see the need for change as they set their team  up for 2014.  I am presuming that they believe he will be better than Williams would have been in 2015, thus the change.

Quote
And by downgrading at corner, we're now left with not two but three big holes to fill, and only one first round pick between them. 

So I admit I'm disappointed.

There is plenty of off season left - free agency, draft, trades and roster cuts coming...

I get that you are disappointed, but I suggest being patient and keeping the faith as the process plays out brother.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 08:15:50 AM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Offline GreenAndGoldLenses

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Re: Tramon is a Brown
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2015, 08:24:54 AM »
There are several arguments being made here.  Should Packers have paid or outbid the Cleveland bid?  Consensus there is no.  Is Tramon a declining player, or likely to be so?  The answer is yes. 

That said, I think you guys are undervaluing the caliber of his play.  He was in man coverage a lot, and for the most part he did really well.  I thought he played very well. 

Second, while having good value-per-dollar contracts is important within the common constraints of the salary cap, the real goal isn't good-per-dollar, the real goal is simply being good.

Whatever faults you may find in Tramon's play last season, the coaches considered the play of Hayward and Goodson and Glover-Wright to be inferior.  So we've presumably downgraded.   And by downgrading at corner, we're now left with not two but three big holes to fill, and only one first round pick between them. 

So I admit I'm disappointed.

Sorry to disagree dude, but I think this is EXACTLY what the current free agency is. Is Suh good? Yes, without a doubt. Is he that good-per-dollar that he got with his new contract? I'm gonna doubt that.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. (Confucius)