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Author Topic: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread  (Read 11239 times)

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Offline SSG

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2015, 11:42:44 AM »
The way Ted has treated inside linebacker over the years, I think he just doesn't see the position as having as large an impact as cornerback.
Putting Clay at ILB in a desperate attempt to stop the bleeding because ILB play has been so bad for several seasons should have been the smack in the back of the head that TT needed to see it as an issue.

Some of us think that Clay's move improved the run defense in two ways- one of which involves Clay being poor against the run from the OLB position.  Ted may not be in a big hurry to move him on first and second down.
TEd doesn't make that call. Dom Capers does. I'm pretty confident Dom would prefer that Clay stay on the outside. Of course, he can't do that without help from his GM.

I think both Capers and Thompson would prefer him on the outside.  For Capers, that would mean they've finally solved the ILB issue.  For Thompson, Mathews is paid like a pass rusher, not an ILB which is something that I think would matter for a GM.
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Offline Twain

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2015, 03:22:27 PM »

Some of us think that Clay's move improved the run defense in two ways- one of which involves Clay being poor against the run from the OLB position.  Ted may not be in a big hurry to move him on first and second down.
TEd doesn't make that call. Dom Capers does. I'm pretty confident Dom would prefer that Clay stay on the outside. Of course, he can't do that without help from his GM.

I think both Capers and Thompson would prefer him on the outside.  For Capers, that would mean they've finally solved the ILB issue.  For Thompson, Mathews is paid like a pass rusher, not an ILB which is something that I think would matter for a GM.

I am pretty sure Capers prefers moving Clay around, having him in the middle but moving him outside on passing downs.  He is much more effective that way.  But feel free to repeat your point over and over now that I have disagreed. ;D
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Offline SSG

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2015, 03:41:38 PM »

Some of us think that Clay's move improved the run defense in two ways- one of which involves Clay being poor against the run from the OLB position.  Ted may not be in a big hurry to move him on first and second down.
TEd doesn't make that call. Dom Capers does. I'm pretty confident Dom would prefer that Clay stay on the outside. Of course, he can't do that without help from his GM.

I think both Capers and Thompson would prefer him on the outside.  For Capers, that would mean they've finally solved the ILB issue.  For Thompson, Mathews is paid like a pass rusher, not an ILB which is something that I think would matter for a GM.

I am pretty sure Capers prefers moving Clay around, having him in the middle but moving him outside on passing downs.  He is much more effective that way.  But feel free to repeat your point over and over now that I have disagreed. ;D

Just following your lead my very repetitive friend.  If you can't beat them, join them right?  goodpost
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2015, 02:36:53 PM »

Some of us think that Clay's move improved the run defense in two ways- one of which involves Clay being poor against the run from the OLB position.  Ted may not be in a big hurry to move him on first and second down.
TEd doesn't make that call. Dom Capers does. I'm pretty confident Dom would prefer that Clay stay on the outside. Of course, he can't do that without help from his GM.

I think both Capers and Thompson would prefer him on the outside.  For Capers, that would mean they've finally solved the ILB issue.  For Thompson, Mathews is paid like a pass rusher, not an ILB which is something that I think would matter for a GM.

I am pretty sure Capers prefers moving Clay around, having him in the middle but moving him outside on passing downs.  He is much more effective that way.  But feel free to repeat your point over and over now that I have disagreed. ;D
Considering that Dom moved Clay around in 2010, then stopped doing it until 2014 tells me he doesn't want to move him around.  Resorting to gimmicks = GM failing to get talent. 
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Offline Hincha

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2015, 11:55:34 AM »
Resorting to gimmicks = GM failing to get talent.

Actually I believe TT has done great in the last 2 drafts prior to 2015...  I would give each a B+/A- grade already.

2013 - Lacy, Bakhtiari, Hyde, D. Jones, Boyd and Barrington....  have to say I am hoping D. Jones can take another step this year.
2014 - Dix, Adams, R. Rodgers and Linsley...  potential for some others to take a step this year.

The two years prior would give average grades
2012 - Daniels, Heyward and Perry only ones left
2011 - Cobb...  House we will get a comp. pick for upcoming.  Other than that nothing.

I am also of the opinion that if a GM is "failing to get talent", the team is missing the playoffs much more than they are making the playoffs.

Packers could have went in many directions with first several picks...  hard for me to criticize this draft so early before the pads even go on. 

Offline cpk1994

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2015, 01:18:03 PM »
Resorting to gimmicks = GM failing to get talent.

Actually I believe TT has done great in the last 2 drafts prior to 2015...  I would give each a B+/A- grade already.

2013 - Lacy, Bakhtiari, Hyde, D. Jones, Boyd and Barrington....  have to say I am hoping D. Jones can take another step this year.
2014 - Dix, Adams, R. Rodgers and Linsley...  potential for some others to take a step this year.

The two years prior would give average grades
2012 - Daniels, Heyward and Perry only ones left
2011 - Cobb...  House we will get a comp. pick for upcoming.  Other than that nothing.

I am also of the opinion that if a GM is "failing to get talent", the team is missing the playoffs much more than they are making the playoffs.

Packers could have went in many directions with first several picks...  hard for me to criticize this draft so early before the pads even go on.
Yet, the defense is still a problem. Sure, he can draft an offense. Defense, not so much.
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Offline hitnhope

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2015, 06:57:59 PM »
My only expectation is to see needs addressed in the early rounds. The biggest one was not addressed.

So is it fair to say that you favor needs based drafting over best player available?

Randall was projected at pick 20 to the eagles by Mayock.  Can't rule out that he was at the top of Ted's board as best available.

Sure looks to me like Ted was following BPA.
Do you really believe TT drafts the BPA?   Like most GM's he drafts need.  The Packers were embarrassed by their ST and set about to fix them.  They felt exposed and thin at CB so they drafted to cover the openings.

Dangerous to go the route they did this year.  Didnt work for Mike Sherman.  Hope it works out better this time.

Offline Still Cheesy

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2015, 10:26:01 PM »
My only expectation is to see needs addressed in the early rounds. The biggest one was not addressed.

So is it fair to say that you favor needs based drafting over best player available?

Randall was projected at pick 20 to the eagles by Mayock.  Can't rule out that he was at the top of Ted's board as best available.

Sure looks to me like Ted was following BPA.
Do you really believe TT drafts the BPA?   Like most GM's he drafts need.  The Packers were embarrassed by their ST and set about to fix them.  They felt exposed and thin at CB so they drafted to cover the openings.

Dangerous to go the route they did this year.  Didnt work for Mike Sherman.  Hope it works out better this time.

I'm beginning to dislike the terms needs drafter and BPA. Like most times when you have two extremes used as short hand, neither actually is used in real life. No GM, at least none that remains employed, actually makes a 300-player list and just takes the top one on it regardless of position, and no team lists their needs in order and then drafts the best player left at that spot regardless of where they are on the board. I'd wager most if not all have some tiered system and then factor in the subtler BPA aspects within the tier along with need, positional value and roster composition. Teams might weigh these differently (and have different views on positional value) but the difference between what is generally considered a needs draft and a BPA draft is actually probably pretty small on the spectrum.

I don't know that there is even enough evidence to say this is any different from any other Thompson draft as far as the ratios used either. The only pick that stands out in that regard is Montgomery, and they might either just be convinced he's better than what he showed last year or the board fell really badly for them.

Offline Twain

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Re: Rant & Rage Against the Picks Thread
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2015, 08:13:11 AM »

Do you really believe TT drafts the BPA?   Like most GM's he drafts need.  The Packers were embarrassed by their ST and set about to fix them.  They felt exposed and thin at CB so they drafted to cover the openings.

Dangerous to go the route they did this year.  Didnt work for Mike Sherman.  Hope it works out better this time.

Yes, I actually feel he drafts "best player available".  I think most fans are naive about ratings on players, and by this I mean it is rare that there is only one best player available.

To my understanding, the rankings are such that there may be multiple players with similar rankings- that is how he can trade back 5 spots and grab Eddie Lacy.  The players at the top of his board all had similar rankings so trading back was a gain.

I have heard Ted say that when he has multiple players with similar rankings, he will take the one that is likely to have the biggest impact for his team.  It sounded to me, that when he has multiple with similar rankings and no trade back opportunity, he then uses need as the tie breaker.

We as fans want the "black or white" clarity- where real life is a lot muddier.  What this draft says to me is that 1) Demarious Randall is a guy that wasn't heavily promoted to the press by his agent or university, so fans never thought about him as a possibility, and 2) Ted saw things in the guys that the fans wanted that made them look like riskier picks.  Face it, Brown fell pretty far in the draft, so Ted wasn't the only one with questions about him.

Aaron Rodgers was clearly a BPA pick when drafted, and thank God that Minnesota, Detroit, and Chicago didn't believe in BPA.  Jody Nelson was a BPA pick, and was so unpopular with the fans that Bob Harlan had to go on radio talk shows and explain the pick and the philosophy.

Fans are making too many assumptions about Demarious Randall.  Could he be Ahmad Carroll- a first round corner bust?  God I hope not, but he sure could.  I think he has a good chance to be like HaHa was last year- starts out the season as a backup, but grows into the starting nickel back position.  I still feel that Hyde lacks the foot speed to be a good nickel back in coverage situations, and frequently get burned deep.  I don't think Randall will have that problem.  Randall could bust, but so can Stephone Anthony, Eric Kendricks, or Malcom Brown.  Only time will tell.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 08:24:23 AM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."