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Author Topic: Early Observations R&V  (Read 22035 times)

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Offline eX Oh

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2015, 11:40:10 AM »
The reason this site sucks is when people like SSG (or CPK or whoever) go on a tirade and repeatedly ignore people correcting his mistakes to re-make the same tired, unsupported, small-minded argument - THE MODS JUST LET HIM DO IT.  OVER AND OVER.

A well moderated site would put SSG on a vacation until he calms down or runs out of booze or whatever. 

I can tell you 100% for sure that I don't want to read another SSG post any time soon.

Observe how he redirects the discussion to attack the poster.  Do you see any information regarding Boyd?  Anything to back up his ranting?  No.  Just a bunch of childish posturing.

I see no error.  Its my opinion and its not one that is formed by 1 or 2 single plays in a game.  You really are looking for me to form an opinion on a player based on 2 or 3 snaps in a game in which the run defense gave up almost 200 yards?  You are right, I'm sure THAT HAPPENED, just like Green Bay getting ran over by Seattle HAPPENED.  I'm not sure how anyone can watch or rematch that game and say that we got a good game in run support from our defensive line.

So Boyd sucks, huh SSG?  Where's your data?  Somehow I don't see any?  Big surprise.  Now go away.  And don't come back for awhile.  Thanks.

Offline SSG

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2015, 11:46:33 AM »
You are aware that the Seahawks Offence did nothing in the first 3 quarters aren't you?  Most of their drives were 3 and out; ended with an INT or resulted in negative yardage.  Yet you still maintain that Boyd was abused by the Seahawks O-Line!

Their only offensive scores were in the 4th quarter when Boyd (playing with an injured ankle) was on field for just a couple of plays. But we can't form an opinion on a couple of snaps can we?

I'm maintaining that Seattle ran for just short of 200 yards and that the entire defensive line was mauled by Seattle's O-Line.  Are you stating that we got a good performance from our defensive line in the NFC Championship game? 

I never said you couldn't form an opinion on 1 or 2 snaps. If you want to look at those 2 snaps and say that Boyd was the missing piece then so be it.  What happened against Seattle is a lot like what happened late in a lot of games last year.  Against Seattle, Detroit (1st gm), New Orleans, New England, Buffalo and even Dallas.  Our run defense late in games last year was terrible. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 12:13:06 PM by SSG »
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Offline SunshinePacker

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Re: Early Observations R&V
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 11:49:15 AM »
I am seriously confused...

(1) the NTs are exactly the same as they were last year but hopefully Raji won't be injured...

(2) though in placing your trust in Raji you're placing your trust in a guy that has been awful at NT and DT since 2011.

#1: Incorrect...

#2: Incorrect...

Just Google these two things:

"Packers draft and develop"

"Ted Thompson draft and develop"


And still no actual specifics....I assumed this didn't need to be said but I'm not counting the third string NT when I talk about the same guys from last year.

Really strong points though on the Googling of Packers-related phrases though, it's gonna be tough to refute that! Mainly because you didn't actually make any points but I'll try nonetheless!

Packers last year (2014) were going to start Raji at NT. This year (2015) the Packers are planning to start Raji at NT. Packers last year (2014) signed Guion to backup Raji at NT. Packers this year (2015) signed Guion to backup Raji but will probably use Guion more often because Guion is actually better than Raji (but Raji has the "potential" of a first round pick!). Last year (2014) the Packers had Josh Boyd and Mike Pennel that moonlighted at NT occasionally. This year (2015) the Packers have Boyd and Pennel to moonlight occasionally at NT if needed (and if both are on the roster).

So, in analyzing your statement, apparently your entire argument (term used loosely) about the NTs being different this year is that the Packers roster currently features Lavon Hooks?

Offline SunshinePacker

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Re: Early Observations R&V
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 12:02:18 PM »
The assumption that when you return the same players you will get the same result is a concept that is not really accurate. Nothing in the nfl stays the same year to year. It goes both ways for sure. Player performance year to year is a set of peaks and valleys, not a flat line.

The packers nose tackle situation is not the same as year ago. A year ago the packers had Guion who had no experience in the 3-4 and missed all of training camp, thrown into the fire at the position. They also had Pennell, a raw but talented rookie see some snaps their.

Right now they have Raji back, Guion back with more experience and understanding of the position, and Pennell who has a chance to make a jump in his quality of play. Capers should have a lot more options on how and when to use each player. He can find ideal matchups for their skill sets and rotate more often to keep them fresh. Its a much more ideal situation than last season.

Will it work out? I don't know. Nobody does. However, it's extremely unlikely that the results will be identical to last season. Things can change in hurry and there is a lot of time left for things to happen. But their depth a talent level at the position seems acceptable at the very least. It's up to the players a coaches to get the best out the situation.

Improvement is made, nobody ever said differently. However, Raji will be 29 when the season starts! How long are fans going to wait for him to improve to the level of an average NFL defensive tackle? Guion improved last season and should actually start over Raji if on-field play were the only factor. I also took Guion's improvement into account. The guy is good rushing the passer but he's not very good against the run (witness Lynch running all over the Packers in the playoffs). Let's also not forget that if Peppers didn't have the reach of a crane, that Murray would have had a terrific day against the Packers in the playoffs as well.

The Packers depth and talent level at NT is poor and unknown. Raji hasn't been a good player since 2010 so I'm still not sure why all the faith is being put in him. Just because the guy is now playing two feet closer to the center isn't suddenly going to turn him from a guy that a single olineman can shove anywhere he wants to a guy that can take on double teams. Guion was a very pleasant surprise but his strength last season was rushing the passer, not stopping the run. Boyd is mainly an end and doesn't appear to have much more of a ceiling than what he showed last year. Pennel was an UDFA and there's not a ton of decent nose tackles that went undrafted. Can't address everything in the draft but NT is still a weakness on this team and nothing was done to improve it from last season.

Offline SSG

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 12:12:11 PM »
The reason this site sucks is when people like SSG (or CPK or whoever) go on a tirade and repeatedly ignore people correcting his mistakes to re-make the same tired, unsupported, small-minded argument - THE MODS JUST LET HIM DO IT.  OVER AND OVER.

A well moderated site would put SSG on a vacation until he calms down or runs out of booze or whatever. 

I can tell you 100% for sure that I don't want to read another SSG post any time soon.

Observe how he redirects the discussion to attack the poster.  Do you see any information regarding Boyd?  Anything to back up his ranting?  No.  Just a bunch of childish posturing.

I see no error.  Its my opinion and its not one that is formed by 1 or 2 single plays in a game.  You really are looking for me to form an opinion on a player based on 2 or 3 snaps in a game in which the run defense gave up almost 200 yards?  You are right, I'm sure THAT HAPPENED, just like Green Bay getting ran over by Seattle HAPPENED.  I'm not sure how anyone can watch or rematch that game and say that we got a good game in run support from our defensive line.

So Boyd sucks, huh SSG?  Where's your data?  Somehow I don't see any?  Big surprise.  Now go away.  And don't come back for awhile.  Thanks.

Where am I not calm?  Where exactly is the personal attack? 

I'm not sure I've ever seen you make a football related post on this site.  Its more about attacking the opinions you don't agree with or trashing others.  Instead of attacking me, tell me why you feel I'm wrong about Boyd?  Is it that difficult to leave the childish insults at home and talk football?

What am I missing about Boyd?  He's a guy who played just over 30% of the defensive snaps last year.  He's a guy without a career sack.  He's currently sitting behind Jones on the depth chart who's among the 10 worst rated 3-4 DE run defenders in the NFL.  Sucks is YOUR word, not mine.  I said he's a rotational player that could replaced.   

Why does everyone have to agree that Boyd is this great player?  PFF has him rated as their 69th out of 89 3-4 DEs (69th in run defense as well).
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 12:24:20 PM by SSG »
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Offline Brit Pack

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 12:56:33 PM »
You are aware that the Seahawks Offence did nothing in the first 3 quarters aren't you?  Most of their drives were 3 and out; ended with an INT or resulted in negative yardage.  Yet you still maintain that Boyd was abused by the Seahawks O-Line!

Their only offensive scores were in the 4th quarter when Boyd (playing with an injured ankle) was on field for just a couple of plays. But we can't form an opinion on a couple of snaps can we?

I'm maintaining that Seattle ran for just short of 200 yards and that the entire defensive line was mauled by Seattle's O-Line.  Are you stating that we got a good performance from our defensive line in the NFC Championship game? 

I never said you couldn't form an opinion on 1 or 2 snaps. If you want to look at those 2 snaps and say that Boyd was the missing piece then so be it.  What happened against Seattle is a lot like what happened late in a lot of games last year.  Against Seattle, Detroit (1st gm), New Orleans, New England, Buffalo and even Dallas.  Our run defense late in games last year was terrible.

Your argument started by saying Boyd was mauled by the Seattle O-Line In the NFCCG  The facts and eye test don't bear that out.

If you want to shift your argument now that it's clear you are wrong then fair enough.  I'll not bother wasting more of my time.

Offline LMG

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2015, 03:15:07 PM »
The reason this site sucks is when people like SSG (or CPK or whoever) go on a tirade and repeatedly ignore people correcting his mistakes to re-make the same tired, unsupported, small-minded argument - THE MODS JUST LET HIM DO IT.  OVER AND OVER.

A well moderated site would put SSG on a vacation until he calms down or runs out of booze or whatever. 

I can tell you 100% for sure that I don't want to read another SSG post any time soon.

Observe how he redirects the discussion to attack the poster.  Do you see any information regarding Boyd?  Anything to back up his ranting?  No.  Just a bunch of childish posturing.

I see no error.  Its my opinion and its not one that is formed by 1 or 2 single plays in a game.  You really are looking for me to form an opinion on a player based on 2 or 3 snaps in a game in which the run defense gave up almost 200 yards?  You are right, I'm sure THAT HAPPENED, just like Green Bay getting ran over by Seattle HAPPENED.  I'm not sure how anyone can watch or rematch that game and say that we got a good game in run support from our defensive line.

So Boyd sucks, huh SSG?  Where's your data?  Somehow I don't see any?  Big surprise.  Now go away.  And don't come back for awhile.  Thanks.


If you choose not to read certain posters remarks/opinions you can put them on 'ignore'.
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Offline B

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Re: Early Observations R&V
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2015, 06:56:11 PM »
Obviously the Packers don't share your views/opinions.

Exactly Larry! But that will not stop him from stating his same views/opinions over and over and over again...

Reports on Raji indicate he is in the best shape of his life and stronger than at any point in his career...

Guion played last season at a new position in a new complicated defensive system (MN ran a 4/3)

Pennel was as green as grass as a rookie, he will have a year's experience and development

It is reasonable to expect that all three will be improved, and worst case scenario the position will at least have more depth

And that is without factoring in competition from stronger more developed guys like Khyri Thornton, Bruce Gaston, Luther Robinson or any of the rookies.
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They just ran out of time.
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Offline SSG

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 08:13:38 PM »
You are aware that the Seahawks Offence did nothing in the first 3 quarters aren't you?  Most of their drives were 3 and out; ended with an INT or resulted in negative yardage.  Yet you still maintain that Boyd was abused by the Seahawks O-Line!

Their only offensive scores were in the 4th quarter when Boyd (playing with an injured ankle) was on field for just a couple of plays. But we can't form an opinion on a couple of snaps can we?

I'm maintaining that Seattle ran for just short of 200 yards and that the entire defensive line was mauled by Seattle's O-Line.  Are you stating that we got a good performance from our defensive line in the NFC Championship game? 

I never said you couldn't form an opinion on 1 or 2 snaps. If you want to look at those 2 snaps and say that Boyd was the missing piece then so be it.  What happened against Seattle is a lot like what happened late in a lot of games last year.  Against Seattle, Detroit (1st gm), New Orleans, New England, Buffalo and even Dallas.  Our run defense late in games last year was terrible.

Your argument started by saying Boyd was mauled by the Seattle O-Line In the NFCCG  The facts and eye test don't bear that out.

If you want to shift your argument now that it's clear you are wrong then fair enough.  I'll not bother wasting more of my time.

You are 100% incorrect. Where is that opinion stated as it surely isn't anywhere on this message board. My original comment was about the entire defensive line getting mauled and the poster asked me about my opinion of Josh Boyd, who I think is JAG. No where did I say just say just Boyd was mauled as he was on the bench for the majority of the game (the fact that he got fewer than 30 snaps in both playoff games combined was mentioned) I suggest you read all the posts before you start making accusations and putting words into others mouths. The OP felt the need to "rant and rave" in his reply so he moved his reply of a thread in the normal forum to this section.

Can you tell me that the defensive front played a good game in support of the run against Seattle?
Act your age, not your shoe size.

Offline SSG

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Re: Early Observations R&V
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 08:30:36 PM »
Obviously the Packers don't share your views/opinions.

Exactly Larry! But that will not stop him from stating his same views/opinions over and over and over again...

Reports on Raji indicate he is in the best shape of his life and stronger than at any point in his career...

Guion played last season at a new position in a new complicated defensive system (MN ran a 4/3)

Pennel was as green as grass as a rookie, he will have a year's experience and development

It is reasonable to expect that all three will be improved, and worst case scenario the position will at least have more depth

And that is without factoring in competition from stronger more developed guys like Khyri Thornton, Bruce Gaston, Luther Robinson or any of the rookies.

You state the exact same overly positive view points over and over and over again year after year.  Why complain about others views not changing when yours are exactly the same every year? Because theirs contains some pessimism and can't take positives from EVERY SINGLE THING they look at and evaluate?

You are right, the Packers probably don't agree with many on this board but the packers are also a team that got steam rolled by Seattle's rushing attack. Not sure one could look at that terrible rush defense and say the packers are above reproach when considering the rush defense has been terrible for some time now. Time will tell but I hope the defense makes the miraculous turnaround you are predicting it to make.
Act your age, not your shoe size.

Offline LMG

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Re: Early Observations R&V
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2015, 09:50:54 PM »
Yes, time will tell.


If you don't think the Packers realize that they have to improve in various positions, including DL, then I can't help you with your opinions.


Obviously, to most, the Packers are comfortable with who will be on the roster and ultimately on the field this year. This years draft picks should help solidify positions that needed to be addressed now and for the near future. Some forget the future and only concentrate on now. I look for the run D to be better this year and I look for Ragi to be a big part of this because he will be playing in the position that fits his talents...NT...and yes he is talented no matter what some think. The Packers had him penciled back into that position, NT, last year until the injury.


When was the last time when the Packers have not been the NFC champ and contender for the SB?


They will be in the running again this year as I am usually optimistic with the people actually in charge.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 09:56:30 PM by LMGAdmin »
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Offline Donzo

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2015, 03:54:28 AM »
Thanks for proving my point that you aren't adult enough to make a post without your cute little buzz word insults that you throw in every single post that disagrees with your opinion. 

I see no error.  Its my opinion and its not one that is formed by 1 or 2 single plays in a game.  You really are looking for me to form an opinion on a player based on 2 or 3 snaps in a game in which the run defense gave up almost 200 yards?  You are right, I'm sure THAT HAPPENED, just like Green Bay getting ran over by Seattle HAPPENED.  I'm not sure how anyone can watch or rematch that game and say that we got a good game in run support from our defensive line.


It's amazing how comfortable you are with your hypocrisy...

How many times have you posted this same nonsense over & over- you power whine, bellyache, play the victim card then lash out in a hypocritical rant at those that don't agree with your nonsense... awful

Even worse is how you don't own your incompetence... You get caught making up BS about Boyd, and you just spin up more BS about Boyd... pathetic





Offline Donzo

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2015, 04:10:38 AM »
[quote author=Brit Pack link=topic=4201.msg106760#msg106760 date=1431114993

Your argument started by saying Boyd was mauled by the Seattle O-Line In the NFCCG  The facts and eye test don't bear that out.

If you want to shift your argument now that it's clear you are wrong then fair enough.  I'll not bother wasting more of my time.


Quote

You are 100% incorrect. Where is that opinion stated as it surely isn't anywhere on this message board. My original comment was about the entire defensive line getting mauled and the poster asked me about my opinion of Josh Boyd, who I think is JAG. No where did I say just say just Boyd was mauled as he was on the bench for the majority of the game (the fact that he got fewer than 30 snaps in both playoff games combined was mentioned) I suggest you read all the posts before you start making accusations and putting words into others mouths. The OP felt the need to "rant and rave" in his reply so he moved his reply of a thread in the normal forum to this section.

Can you tell me that the defensive front played a good game in support of the run against Seattle?


No, he was close... You are 100% incorrect... This is what you said about Boyd, (as I quoted in the first post) "He's not a guy who can take on multiple blockers and isn't very stout in run defense."

As has been pointed, your ignorant comments about Boyd were 100% incorrect, just like your nonsense with Brit-Pack.

Also, you're also 100% incorrect on why I started this thread... I didn't want to pollute the main board with your vitriol. I know you power whiners love to do that and disrespect the main board that way, so I moved your nonsense here.

Offline Donzo

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Re: Early Observations
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2015, 04:14:02 AM »
If you want to shift your argument now that it's clear you are wrong then fair enough.  I'll not bother wasting more of my time.

That's a good idea...

The guy doesn't want to talk about the Packers. He just wants to cause a stink and drag the board down...

Offline Donzo

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Re: Early Observations R&V
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2015, 04:20:13 AM »
And still no actual specifics....I assumed this didn't need to be said but I'm not counting the third string NT when I talk about the same guys from last year.

Really strong points though on the Googling of Packers-related phrases though, it's gonna be tough to refute that! Mainly because you didn't actually make any points but I'll try nonetheless!

Packers last year (2014) were going to start Raji at NT. This year (2015) the Packers are planning to start Raji at NT. Packers last year (2014) signed Guion to backup Raji at NT. Packers this year (2015) signed Guion to backup Raji but will probably use Guion more often because Guion is actually better than Raji (but Raji has the "potential" of a first round pick!). Last year (2014) the Packers had Josh Boyd and Mike Pennel that moonlighted at NT occasionally. This year (2015) the Packers have Boyd and Pennel to moonlight occasionally at NT if needed (and if both are on the roster).

So, in analyzing your statement, apparently your entire argument (term used loosely) about the NTs being different this year is that the Packers roster currently features Lavon Hooks?


My reply was just as specific as your post was... All you did was state flawed opinion as fact.

Did you really count Raji as a DT for 2014?!?.... Too funny!

You can ignore the Packers' draft and develop process all you like, but it doesn't change the process.