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Author Topic: Defense: Are we a well coached team?  (Read 8475 times)

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Offline Shinesman

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2015, 08:51:09 PM »
I am wondering if they do pull out this win, how many will jump up stating this defense is good we were just impatient or ignorant. I see it here all the time, you have a mountain of evidence over multiple seasons to back up your point, then a one game anomaly makes you an idiot according to the insanely over-homered crowd.
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Offline PackerYakker

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2015, 12:19:30 PM »
Not sure how anyone can look at this defense, a defense that makes the same mistakes year after year after year and come away with the opinion that they are well coached. 

This particular problem has as much to do with personnel as with coaching. Long-standing mediocrities at multiple positions have lowered the ceiling on run defense efficiency.

At the key ILB position, there hasn't been a real force since Desmond Bishop ('10-'11), let alone a pair of strong players. On the DL, they've generally had adequate run personnel but none of the complete players that can both collapse and pursue. In the secondary, they've had nothing more than average tacklers at both CB spots ever since Woodson was moved.

Add that all up and you've got a recipe for an average run defense, no matter who's coaching it.

Of course Capers should be held accountable to some degree, it's his job to scheme around all shortcomings. Still, the 50 yard completion vs. Shields nicely highlights what he's up against. Shields gets a minor shove at the top of the route which, because he's not at all physical, creates enough separation to turn what should be a routine pass breakup into a huge gain. CHI's game plan involved attacking our #1 CB and making him tackle!   

TT has served up a steady diet of average personnel on the defensive side for years and Capers has understandably struggled to turn it into something more. It seems that Capers has generally meet what should have been low expectations.   
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 12:20:55 PM by PackerYakker »

Offline B

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 07:09:36 AM »
I wonder if folks who posted in this thread have reconsidered any of their thoughts posted in this thread???

The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline golfman

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2015, 10:35:29 AM »
Cannot say the team is well coached on defense because we have been seeing the same garbage every year since the Super Bowl win.  Once again we were told the defense would improve. Once again the defense is absolutely putrid. Front 7 was bad last year. Did nothing to address it, but were told this would be better. Still bad. After this many years of bad defense, one can only conclude that it isn't the players anymore. it's the coaching. Therefore, Capers needs to be shown the door. The whole defensive coaching staff needs to be shown the door. It is time to stop the acceptance of a D that continually gets run over.


Not sure how this can be when the NFL Network is discussing the Packers defense as the BEST in the NFC? How can this be CPK?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/0ap3000000555697/Are-the-Packers-the-best-defense-in-the-league
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Offline claymaker

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2015, 11:55:01 AM »
I wonder if folks who posted in this thread have reconsidered any of their thoughts posted in this thread???

No. Why would they? They've been proven incredibly wrong so far, and won't say anything until someone runs all over the field against them or they give up 40 points in a single game.

All it takes is one game or playoff game for the knee jerkers to come forth. My guess is it won't be because of the defense this year. It'll be about how the offensive line is terrible and a LT needs to be signed ASAP, or how poorly the WRs are, or how Rodgers is beginning to decline in his "old age."

Offline Kepler

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2015, 02:21:48 PM »
Worst in the league! Period!

Offline walker16

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2015, 02:50:30 PM »
No

Offline B

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2015, 05:51:37 AM »
Worst in the league! Period!
I assume you wanted to put a  sarcasm with this post Brother Kepler
No

No what? No, we're not the worst in the league or No, we're not a well coached team?
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline Kepler

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2015, 08:27:46 AM »
Worst in the league! Period!
I assume you wanted to put a  sarcasm with this post Brother Kepler

Yes. My bad.

Offline walker16

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2015, 01:50:40 PM »
Not difficult...read your question.

Offline B

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2015, 02:34:43 PM »
Not difficult...read your question.
Got it. Probably a combination of how easy it is to get lost in these longer threads, and my being dense sometimes. :-)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 02:36:23 PM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline Bignutz

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2015, 09:46:47 AM »
Doesn't it bother anyone that in the San Diego game we knew that Rivers was going to throw the ball almost every play yet we still had a hard time stopping them.  I think we have a pretty good defense but this concerns me. Just my opinion.
And God so loved the Green Bay Packers, He reached forth his mighty hand and stamped his initial upon the sides of their helmets!--Lombardi 3-16

Offline B

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2015, 06:44:57 AM »
Dom Capers post San Diego:

“I don’t like the yardage, obviously, but I liked the way our guys competed because, to me, good football teams find a way to win. You do it different ways each and every week. You’ve seen over the last two, three weeks to where we’ve won different ways. I always tells guys, ‘Winners find a way to win.’ You never know what play’s going to make the difference. Yeah, I think that we can take and learn and I think in the long run we’ll take some positives out of this thing yesterday.”

“Obviously, our No. 1 point of emphasis is scoring defense. I just think that that’s where it all starts. To be a good scoring defensive team, you’ve got to play well in the red zone. People are going to get down in the red zone on you and you’ve got to try to keep them kicking field goals.”


By the Way: Over the last 3 games (including S.D.),  the Packers three (3) touchdowns in 12 red-zone possessions is tied for the best in the league during that span at 25%.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
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Offline Twain

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2015, 07:53:25 AM »
I wonder if folks who posted in this thread have reconsidered any of their thoughts posted in this thread???

As the OP, and because I respect you as a poster, I will respond to this question because despite the location in rant and vent, I think there are some interesting football points to be discussed as opposed to the emotional argumentation that so often takes place of late.

First off, let me say that my last line of the original post is true and I did indeed admit that I was wrong in another thread, which in true form was jumped by someone who just wanted to argue.  I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, and in the case of the improving defense, nothing makes me happier.

In some ways though, the original post from the end of preseason is not that far off, in that Capers even admits that he has simplified both the scheme and the calls in order to create a faster defense with fewer mental errors. 

       http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/dom-capers-using-brand-new-play-calls-to-simplify-the-defense-b99591848z1-331183831.html

Second, I would say that the play of the defense on Sunday was more of what I expected for the first part of the season.  My error was that I didn't recognize the limitations of the passing attacks that we would see to start the season-- The bears without their first round pick and an injured Alshon Jeffrey, the ineffective nature of Jimmie Graham in Seattle or Maclin in KC.

The experience with Demarious Randall on Allen this last Sunday was more of what I was expecting early in the year.  As much natural talent as Demarious Randall has, we saw him get his introduction to what it is like to play against elite QB's in the NFL.  He is clearly going to be a player, but he needs work on his technique, which is expected for a rookie.  Watching him Sunday, his technique is based on great movement skills, being able to stay with his man and break on the ball.  What was lacking on Sunday though was the ability to get physical at the line and prevent Allen from getting a clean break off the line.

With a blitz heavy defense, preventing a clean break denies Rivers the hot route and denies him the ability to get the ball out before the blitzing player gets there. 

This was a great game for Randall and his coaches to identify the next step up in his game and where he needs to improve in his transition to NFL corner.  He already has the ability to position himself to break on routes in zone, and we have seen that many time this year including the key last play of the game,  He also has shown he can run well and attack the arms for the pass breakup on the deep ball.  Now it is time to see if the coaches can teach him to jam at the line.

As an aside, I wonder if Gunter might have been a better option on Allen due to his more physical style at the line. I would guess that Capers values Randall's speed and ability to break on the route in zone more than Gunter's ability to play press man at this point.

I still stand on my hypothesis that the scheme is only as good as the technique employed by the players, and that scheme can get too complicated and take away from practice of fundamentals.  I think Capers has surprised me this year with putting together a defense based on his players talents and putting them in a position to play a technically sound game.
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Online The GM

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Re: Defense: Are we a well coached team?
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2015, 08:02:23 AM »
I dont think its a coincidence that when Raji plays well, this defense plays well.  He had a good Super Bowl year, had a lull  in production a couple of years, and started out good this year.  Sounds like the Packer defense the past few years too.  When Raji comes to play, this defense plays much better IMO.