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Author Topic: Not watching game.  (Read 7208 times)

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Offline mtsportsfan

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Not watching game.
« on: September 28, 2017, 04:39:05 PM »
I'm 54 yrs old soon to be 55. Have not missed a game since I was in the military. So disappointed in all of this about kneeling for the anthem. Rodgers is 1000 times smarter than me but he is wrong , the flag and the anthem is all about the military and the people who served and died  so that people can have freedom of speech and the freedom  of everyday life in the USA. So this week and and starting tonight I will boycott all nfl  games on television this weekend. This is really going to be hard, but this is my small stand. Go pack go

Offline Kepler

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 05:15:10 PM »
Ok

Online The GM

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2017, 03:27:00 PM »
I'm 54 yrs old soon to be 55. Have not missed a game since I was in the military. So disappointed in all of this about kneeling for the anthem. Rodgers is 1000 times smarter than me but he is wrong , the flag and the anthem is all about the military and the people who served and died  so that people can have freedom of speech and the freedom  of everyday life in the USA. So this week and and starting tonight I will boycott all nfl  games on television this weekend. This is really going to be hard, but this is my small stand. Go pack go

Good for you Mtsportsfan.   I appreciate your values.


Offline claymaker

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 05:27:55 PM »
I'm 54 yrs old soon to be 55. Have not missed a game since I was in the military. So disappointed in all of this about kneeling for the anthem. Rodgers is 1000 times smarter than me but he is wrong , the flag and the anthem is all about the military and the people who served and died  so that people can have freedom of speech and the freedom  of everyday life in the USA. So this week and and starting tonight I will boycott all nfl  games on television this weekend. This is really going to be hard, but this is my small stand. Go pack go

I'm on the side that it means different things for different people, or it can mean nothing at all.

I personally find it disrespectful to the men and women in uniform and everyone that has served. Which is really my only gripe about the whole situation. Like those aren't civilians escorting our flag to midfield. So, not respecting the flag and anthem is directly insulting to them and indirectly to everyone else.

The sad part is people in America have no idea how lucky they are to live here. It is literally the only haven left for free thought, free speech, and free expression. Check out guys like Jordan Peterson on Canada and bill 316, that was a pretty big deal. Countries like the UK, Canada, Australia and Switzerland are all "under the thumb."

I could care less what NFL athletes think or do. They all have an over inflated ego that makes them think the world is constantly watching them for direction, it's just too bad it's actually half true.

Offline LMG

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 06:03:51 PM »
I'm 54 yrs old soon to be 55. Have not missed a game since I was in the military. So disappointed in all of this about kneeling for the anthem. Rodgers is 1000 times smarter than me but he is wrong , the flag and the anthem is all about the military and the people who served and died  so that people can have freedom of speech and the freedom  of everyday life in the USA. So this week and and starting tonight I will boycott all nfl  games on television this weekend. This is really going to be hard, but this is my small stand. Go pack go

I'm on the side that it means different things for different people, or it can mean nothing at all.

I personally find it disrespectful to the men and women in uniform and everyone that has served. Which is really my only gripe about the whole situation. Like those aren't civilians escorting our flag to midfield. So, not respecting the flag and anthem is directly insulting to them and indirectly to everyone else.

The sad part is people in America have no idea how lucky they are to live here. It is literally the only haven left for free thought, free speech, and free expression. Check out guys like Jordan Peterson on Canada and bill 316, that was a pretty big deal. Countries like the UK, Canada, Australia and Switzerland are all "under the thumb."

I could care less what NFL athletes think or do. They all have an over inflated ego that makes them think the world is constantly watching them for direction, it's just too bad it's actually half true.




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Offline Toddfather

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 09:14:33 PM »
Don't you have a meme for this?

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 02:07:56 AM »
The sad part is people in America have no idea how lucky they are to live here. It is literally the only haven left for free thought, free speech, and free expression. Check out guys like Jordan Peterson on Canada and bill 316, that was a pretty big deal. Countries like the UK, Canada, Australia and Switzerland are all "under the thumb."

America the only haven left ? Please. UK under the thumb ?  Under whose thumb ? Plenty of free speech and free expression here, as long as you don't resort to the 'isms Racism, Sexism, etc. Free thought is allowed everywhere, EVERYONES thoughts are their own. I don't think you have much idea what it is to live in a country outside your own, it's probably just that you are comfortable there because it is what you know, where you were brought up.

I'll pop a stastistic back at you.
Murders in all of England and Wales combined last year, 573, in a population of 58 million (less than one in a 100,000).
Murders in Chicago last year, 762 in a population of 2.7 million (one in just over every 3,500).
That is a stastistic that inspires personal terror, more than freedom.

I actually have no problem with you applauding America as a free country, just don't assume nowhere else is. While nowhere else is exactly like the US (all countries are unique in their own way), there are plenty of places in the world outside the US, that have a pretty free society.
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Offline claymaker

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 06:32:31 AM »
The sad part is people in America have no idea how lucky they are to live here. It is literally the only haven left for free thought, free speech, and free expression. Check out guys like Jordan Peterson on Canada and bill 316, that was a pretty big deal. Countries like the UK, Canada, Australia and Switzerland are all "under the thumb."

America the only haven left ? Please. UK under the thumb ?  Under whose thumb ? Plenty of free speech and free expression here, as long as you don't resort to the 'isms Racism, Sexism, etc. Free thought is allowed everywhere, EVERYONES thoughts are their own. I don't think you have much idea what it is to live in a country outside your own, it's probably just that you are comfortable there because it is what you know, where you were brought up.

I'll pop a stastistic back at you.
Murders in all of England and Wales combined last year, 573, in a population of 58 million (less than one in a 100,000).
Murders in Chicago last year, 762 in a population of 2.7 million (one in just over every 3,500).
That is a stastistic that inspires personal terror, more than freedom.

I actually have no problem with you applauding America as a free country, just don't assume nowhere else is. While nowhere else is exactly like the US (all countries are unique in their own way), there are plenty of places in the world outside the US, that have a pretty free society.

Well, I didn't say it was the only one. My point was they are the only one where it is the law of the land and they don't compromise it for anyone. We are having this battle of what speech is protected. Also, those "isms" are not illegal, they're just extremely offensive.

It's the "isms" you referred to that are being misrepresented and thrown around by, buzz word spoiler alert, demagogues. Those "isms" have lost their meaning by being thrown around so childishly. Anyone who actually uses them in a debate has no place in the debate because they are poorly prepared, uninformed, and ignorant.

Pretty sure the UK is big on "Islamaphobia." https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9741/islamization-britain - It's not all sunshine and rainbows mate. There's plenty of other articles that support this and other things not mentioned that shine a negative spotlight here. Just don't use Google to search for them. Go ahead and draw a picture of Muhammed in front of a Mosque in your country, I dare you.

Canada's bill 316, that almost got passed, made it illegal to call someone a name they didn't like. Specifically it was gender specific pronouns, but the language of the bill did make it somewhat open.

"that have a pretty free society." - This is my main point. America isn't pretty free. It is free, and if you think the "Free Three" aren't under attack you need to widen your gaze. It's under fire in America, it's under fire everywhere and some of them have already given up some territory. I'm actually not comfortable in my country. I feel like a dragon and my gold coins are my "Free Three," and I will not part with a single coin.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 06:33:57 AM by claymaker »

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 09:41:48 AM »
The sad part is people in America have no idea how lucky they are to live here. It is literally the only haven left for free thought, free speech, and free expression. Check out guys like Jordan Peterson on Canada and bill 316, that was a pretty big deal. Countries like the UK, Canada, Australia and Switzerland are all "under the thumb."

America the only haven left ? Please. UK under the thumb ?  Under whose thumb ? Plenty of free speech and free expression here, as long as you don't resort to the 'isms Racism, Sexism, etc. Free thought is allowed everywhere, EVERYONES thoughts are their own. I don't think you have much idea what it is to live in a country outside your own, it's probably just that you are comfortable there because it is what you know, where you were brought up.

I'll pop a stastistic back at you.
Murders in all of England and Wales combined last year, 573, in a population of 58 million (less than one in a 100,000).
Murders in Chicago last year, 762 in a population of 2.7 million (one in just over every 3,500).
That is a stastistic that inspires personal terror, more than freedom.

I actually have no problem with you applauding America as a free country, just don't assume nowhere else is. While nowhere else is exactly like the US (all countries are unique in their own way), there are plenty of places in the world outside the US, that have a pretty free society.

Well, I didn't say it was the only one. My point was they are the only one where it is the law of the land and they don't compromise it for anyone. We are having this battle of what speech is protected. Also, those "isms" are not illegal, they're just extremely offensive.

Can you not even read your own post, where you say  "The sad part is people in America have no idea how lucky they are to live here. It is literally the only haven left for free thought, free speech, and free expression."  It isn't.

It's the "isms" you referred to that are being misrepresented and thrown around by, buzz word spoiler alert, demagogues. Those "isms" have lost their meaning by being thrown around so childishly. Anyone who actually uses them in a debate has no place in the debate because they are poorly prepared, uninformed, and ignorant.


So anyone who uses the word sexism or racism in a debate is somehow "poorly prepared, uninformed, and ignorant" ? That is priceless !

Pretty sure the UK is big on "Islamaphobia." https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9741/islamization-britain - It's not all sunshine and rainbows mate. There's plenty of other articles that support this and other things not mentioned that shine a negative spotlight here. Just don't use Google to search for them. Go ahead and draw a picture of Muhammed in front of a Mosque in your country, I dare you.

People are wary of Islam in the UK, due to the terrorist tactics of IS, but there are still an estimated 1,750 mosques in the UK, that generally go about their business quietly. Not exactly Islamophobic. Also, I never claimed the UK is all 'sunshine and rainbows'. I am willing to admit that, like any country, there are things there that work badly. The UK is very multicultural, these days - not surprising with the ease of travel.

Canada's bill 316, that almost got passed, made it illegal to call someone a name they didn't like. Specifically it was gender specific pronouns, but the language of the bill did make it somewhat open.

I have no comment to make on a bill that I don't know, in another country.

"that have a pretty free society." - This is my main point. America isn't pretty free. It is free, and if you think the "Free Three" aren't under attack you need to widen your gaze. It's under fire in America, it's under fire everywhere and some of them have already given up some territory. I'm actually not comfortable in my country. I feel like a dragon and my gold coins are my "Free Three," and I will not part with a single coin


There are many things you cannot do in America, just as there are many things you cannot do in the UK. Restrictions on society are how places crowded with people manage to coexist. In the better countries these are relatively loose controls, while elsewhere they might be rigidly tight, some may even lack any ability to set and enforce the law (ie anarchy).  Exercise your 'free expression' to walk around near the president with a big board saying 'Kill Trump', and see how long it is before you are arrested. It would be the same in the UK (if you substitute Prime Minister or Queen for Trump). So free expression is limited, in the US, in the UK, in any society. If you cannot see that freedom is not the absolute you believe it to be, you are not looking hard enough.

Remember, I am NOT claiming the UK is special, or better than the US. What I am saying is that your idea that the US is the only free society, is both wrong and naive. Your idea that the UK, which you called 'under the thumb' (in terms of free speech, free expression) relative to the US, is also wrong. Feel free to big-up freedoms in the US all you want claymaker, and I won't mind, but don't pretend it is the only place it exists.   

« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 09:54:02 AM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Online ricky

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2017, 01:25:37 PM »
claymaker, a favor, please. Could you post a link to this proposed Canadian Bill 316? I've googled it and only found a bill to allow Canadians to agree to be organ donors on their tax returns. Here is the gamut of stuff I found when googling Canadian bill 316:

https://www.google.com/search?q=canada+bill+316&rlz=1CAACAC_enUS539US539&oq=c&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l4j5.3141j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

So, if you could provide a link as to the contents of this bill, it would be very much appreciated.
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Online ricky

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 03:43:39 PM »
claymaker, never mind. Found an article on this subject while looking into a supposed California law dealing with pronouns in nursing homes. Anyway, I don't expect this to make any difference, but here's the link:

http://www.canadalandshow.com/no-wont-jailed-using-wrong-pronoun/
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Offline claymaker

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 05:53:42 PM »
claymaker, never mind. Found an article on this subject while looking into a supposed California law dealing with pronouns in nursing homes. Anyway, I don't expect this to make any difference, but here's the link:

http://www.canadalandshow.com/no-wont-jailed-using-wrong-pronoun/

Yea Bill C-16 sorry. It doesn't surprise me people don't know about these things enough to even correct me. It all comes down to the news you watch these days, and there a many things MSM outlets simply will not cover.

"There are many things you cannot do in America, just as there are many things you cannot do in the UK. Restrictions on society are how places crowded with people manage to coexist. In the better countries these are relatively loose controls, while elsewhere they might be rigidly tight, some may even lack any ability to set and enforce the law (ie anarchy).  Exercise your 'free expression' to walk around near the president with a big board saying 'Kill Trump', and see how long it is before you are arrested. It would be the same in the UK (if you substitute Prime Minister or Queen for Trump). So free expression is limited, in the US, in the UK, in any society. If you cannot see that freedom is not the absolute you believe it to be, you are not looking hard enough."

Free expression is limited in America? Remind me again about the Cathy Griffon debacle. What she did wasn't illegal right? There are many who might want it to be, but I don't.

Obviously, you can't go around inciting violence. There's actually a specific Supreme Court case that confirms this, Bradenburg vs. Ohio, which says that sort of speech, inciting violence, isn't protected. You actually could hold a poster that says "Kill Trump" around President Trump. What you couldn't do is hold a sign that says "I Am Going To Kill Trump Now." There has to be immediate danger and clear intent. Would the Secret Service detain that person? Yes, that's their job, but a "Kill Trump" sign is not illegal even around the President. I find it fascinating people inherently know this when they make their signs and say things in public, yet have no idea that law exists.

In what way is America not a "free country?" I'm not interested in the semantics argument here. Of course there are limits and those limits are the laws of the country. I assume this is understood as a baseline.

""So anyone who uses the word sexism or racism in a debate is somehow "poorly prepared, uninformed, and ignorant" ?"" - If it is an unwarranted attack on the person across from them yes, and it almost always is unwarranted these days. Anyone who is actually using those pejoratives, being racist, sexist or whatever is poorly prepared, uninformed, and ignorant. So in my little world, parties who are not those things are the ones whose debates I would hold up as an example of how most debates should be. Pretty sure that sort of debate is often identified as a "British" one. I believe we are encouraged to be on the offensive against racism, sexism, homophobia etc by calling it out when we see it, but I also firmly believe it is more important to be correct when doing so. If you're calling someone racist who isn't a racist, that's really wrong too.



Online ricky

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2017, 10:45:57 PM »
claymaker, so Bill 316 is not what you thought? Or what? Not trying to "pile on" or anything, Just curious. Because there is a lot of misinformation out there. And increasingly, we make up our minds, and simply find sources that agree with our preconceived ideas. As "The X Files" was fond of saying, "the truth is out there". But so are a thicket of lies, misrepresentations and exagerrations, all offered as facts. 
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Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 01:07:30 AM »
OK. I think I've said enough on freedoms as they apply to countries. My posts already make clear where I'm coming from. It's not really football talk, so I'll sign off on this thread.
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Offline claymaker

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2017, 05:18:29 AM »
claymaker, so Bill 316 is not what you thought? Or what? Not trying to "pile on" or anything, Just curious. Because there is a lot of misinformation out there. And increasingly, we make up our minds, and simply find sources that agree with our preconceived ideas. As "The X Files" was fond of saying, "the truth is out there". But so are a thicket of lies, misrepresentations and exagerrations, all offered as facts.

No it is exactly what I was thinking of. Just got the name wrong. It is Bill C-16, not Bill 316.

OK. I think I've said enough on freedoms as they apply to countries. My posts already make clear where I'm coming from. It's not really football talk, so I'll sign off on this thread.

That's fine. Just to be clear America is not a perfect place.

This thread or these posts aren't out of place in this subforum. It's taken a hard, right turn due to what I wrote, but we are allowed to embellish ourselves in this sub forum. It's not politics. It's just a discussion that is likely to take this sort of direction. It's not, not allowed, it's just not allowed in the rest of the forums.