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Offline LMG

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #75 on: October 11, 2017, 07:43:34 PM »


SSG...You do realize that was more than 30 years ago when Donald Trump bought a franchise in the upstart United States Football League....but whatever if it fits your arguement.


It all comes down to the NFL and their Teams doing their job as a business instead of trying to be 'politically correct'.


If they would have been doing their job last year we wouldn't be going through this crap now.


People can spin this any way they want to promote their narratives but what it is is that the players have no right to be protesting in uniform, in stadiums, on game days, in front of fans that paid big money to watch a professional football game.


The players are employees, not owners, of the venue in which they are protesting. The nfl and their teams have no backbone in enforcing the rights they have.


I'm in no way trying to change peoples political affiliation...hardly. Just saying that the players are using the nfl stadiums on game day in uniform trying to promote their protest and that is NOT OK.



ONE MORE TIME: I have no problem with the NFL players wanting to demonstrate against something. The problem is they are taking advantage of their place of employment on football days in uniform and are disrespecting our flag, national anthem and most importantly all the men and women who gave their service and many many who gave their lives for our flag and Country.


If you can't see that then take your blinders off after getting your heads out of the sand.


Some want to blame OUR President for this recent uprising by the players...far from the truth. President Trump provided the impetus, hopefully, to get the league and owners to take action to show the players and their union that they are out of line on this one.


No matter what your political affiliation if you can't see this it's is just sad.
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Offline SSG

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #76 on: October 11, 2017, 09:07:18 PM »
LMG..... No, its not just my story.  Yes, Trump bought the New Jersey Generals after failing to get into the NFL.  Trump also moved to have the USFL games moved from the Spring to the fall to compete with the NFL.   He also headed an antitrust lawsuit against the NFL that all but tanked the league after a $3 judgement and a bank amount drained by the legal fees.  He failed to get into the NFL again in 2014 and has been attacking the league ever since.  I'm not making this up to fit an agenda, all one has to do is look at Trump's twitter page.  Whether its the NFL's fight against concussions or some of their new rule changes, he's been attacking the league ever since he was spurned.  That's not a fabrication, its in his twitter history.

I'm not tracking.  Did all 32 teams not play 16 regular season games last year?  Was there not a playoff and eventually a Super Bowl?  Is it not the NFL's job to produce football games?  Is it not the players jobs to play football?  Enlighten me Larry, name me one player who decided not to play football last year in favor of protesting?  Name me one team who didn't play 16 games in favor of protesting? The NFL made BILLIONS of dollars last year, I think they did their job and they did it quite well.

The players have every to do what they are doing.  There is NOTHING in the rule book that says that they are breaking any rules.  You don't get to arbitrarily make up rules because you are offended and refuse to look at the situation through any eyes but your own.  You don't get to censor hundreds of players because you are offended.

The NFL went from 10 protestors to over 200 after the President attacked the players and their families.  The fact that you don't believe he has any sort of blame in this just tells me how ridiculously blind you are too his antics. 

Reality is, there is nothing NFL players can do.  As long as they are a target of President Trump they will be on the bad end of some of the most vile, racist hatred ever associated with professional athletes.  It doesn't matter how much good they do, because they have a differing opinion about how to protest they will be the scum of the earth to most Trump supporters.  I can't believe that so many people have such a strong opinion against unity.  Its almost 2018 and we have half the country fighting to keep division and against equality.   

My head isn't in the sand.  If it was I'd be attempting to take the easy way out by telling the players to shut up, fall in line and deal with it.  The easy way out would be telling players to stop kneeling for the NA and flag, something I've served for for the last 6,321 days.  The easy way out is ignoring the social injustice that is going on in this country because I'm a white male that has never needed to worry about some of the same issues that some of my comrades, soldiers and friends have had to deal with.  Equity issues should be uncomfortable because that is the ONLY way there will ever be any sort of positive change. 

I think this conversation has run its course.  Neither one of us are going to change each others minds. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 09:13:42 PM by SSG »
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Online The GM

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2017, 06:25:42 AM »
Complete nonsense.  New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft and Dallas Owner Jerry Jones among other owners are good friends with Donald Trump and have contributed millions to his campaign.   They have family dinners together with the Krafts.   Why would they do that if he was trying to take down the NFL and have this hatred for the league?  My God people, pull your head out.  You have to be pretty wrapped around the axle to come up with stupid stuff like that.   

A President of the United States saying players should stand for the National Anthem isnt racist, sexist, marxist., communist or any other "ist".    Its patriotic.  Making it out to be anything more than that is pure delusion.   

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2017, 09:27:23 AM »
There's just so much irony and hypocrisy in this World - none of us immune, only some of us aware.

I think this country has a few too many social media and internet Patriotic Super Heroes.   One of my best friends is this guy and I tease him regularly for it.  In public standing for the flag, hand on heart.  Maybe a little flag lapel pin or a little American flag waving in the front yard - 90% of which are improperly displayed. In private - beer in hand, feet on couch or treating the National Anthem as their last opportunity to make some nachos or take a leak.  Or maybe spending those couple minutes banging out a couple pre-game must-read messages on your favorite fansite forum thread.  I've repeatedly seen the argument, "this is a workplace, it's different than what you do in private."   Why?   Is your Patriotism purely a show, only to be displayed around other people or only to be displayed if required by your employer?   Do I need to be present to witness your awesome display of patriotism to recognize you must really love this country.   Or do you actually give a s&*t?

Claiming I can't possibly watch or enjoy a down of football anymore because a player quietly knelt during a time I usually reserve to pee or get a fresh beer when at home

I've been to a couple NFL games around the country the last few weeks and recently saw a high school game.  At the last two games I've been to I've watched "patriots" in the stands actively booing and catcalling players that were kneeling and/or holding a fist up during the National Anthem.   Does it not strike anyone as hypocritical or ironic to boo people quietly kneeling because they are incredibly disrespectful and to do so DURING the National Anthem?

Claiming any anthem protest has "lost it's meaning" and is now a distraction from it's original purpose while being the person that has actively sought to run from it's purpose or has actively tried to re-frame the player's actions/arguments.   It's okay to tune out First Take, whatever sports radio station you listen to or whatever News station you listen to and independently choose to form your own opinion or independently TRY TO LISTEN.   Stop blaming others for becoming a distraction - you are that distraction

Want to be a public voice for "family values"?  At the same time having a browser history full of porn and/or mistress you've texted to encourage an abortion. 

Attack an elitist big-money donating Hollywood democratic serial sexual predator while electing the same as President.   (feel free to flip that to Roger Ailes and Bill Clinton should you like)

Want to Champion the 1st Amendment by holding up Eminem as a demigod but "I will burn this campus to the ground if Ann Coulter is allowed to speak!"   (as an aside -
"The Storm" really is a beautiful tune and Coulter is the devil incarnate - but the 1st Amendment says both should have their voices heard in this country)

Praising Breitbart and InfoWars and Fox News and Limbaugh and Bannon (or HuffPost and MSN and Olberman and Sharpton) as "Fair and Balanced" while condemning the others as "Fake News".    Using those sites as your sole source of information, parroting any coverage they have and claiming oneself as an "independent thinker"

Claiming the NFL is just about the $ - but that Donald Trump guy - he really cares!  Reading numerous examples by others in previous posts detailing Trump's disdain for our military yet holding him up as some bastion of Patriotism.  POW's aren't heroes and I'm way smarter than those generals (I've got all the words) and those people kneeling hate our military and country!

Claiming Donald Trump cares about you or anything other than himself and his family's bottom line or claiming Donald Trump is a rallying cry for Patriotism! rather than trying to find ways to stir his base, raise some donations ($$) and get someone, anyone to feed his need to be cheered over anything while his entire presidency has been an abject embarrassing failure

OKAY - the last one was just gratuitous for me :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 09:45:23 AM by ThatGuy284 »

Offline Thom_Tedson

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2017, 11:41:42 AM »
A President of the United States saying players should stand for the National Anthem isnt racist, sexist, marxist., communist or any other "ist".    Its patriotic.  Making it out to be anything more than that is pure delusion.   

Here's another "ist" for you: fascist

A fascist is a follower of a political philosophy characterized by authoritarian views and a strong central government — and no tolerance for opposing opinions.

Offline Kepler

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2017, 11:51:24 AM »
A President of the United States saying players should stand for the National Anthem isnt racist, sexist, marxist., communist or any other "ist".    Its patriotic.  Making it out to be anything more than that is pure delusion.   

Here's another "ist" for you: fascist

A fascist is a follower of a political philosophy characterized by authoritarian views and a strong central government — and no tolerance for opposing opinions.

Bolded part is why we're at risk of a fascist coup. Blows my mind that the way we would slip into a fascist regime isn't by violent military intervention, but with the support of a third of the country. Anyone here watched any of the Handmaid's Tale on Hulu? Christian fundamentalists and the alt right will see we go the same way. Welcome to the theocratic authoritarian regime of Gilead! Public hangings for dissenters and no rights for anyone except the white elite. That is the slope we are on right now. Mark it down.

Online The GM

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2017, 12:07:10 PM »
Complete garbage.  Every president has had their positions.  Trump and his "lack of tolerance for other views" has met with Schumer and Pelosi and made agreements on immigration and other issues.  Dont worry though, there are other brain dead idiots peddling the same fascist labeling crap.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 12:20:37 PM by The GM »

Offline Pat22

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2017, 02:09:08 PM »
September 24, 2017 will go down in history as the day the NFL died. It died because its pampered, babied, overgrown millionaires showed an utter lack of respect for their country and their flag and insulted every working American who buys tickets to watch them play a game.
 
It died because players, coaches, and owners alike insulted a country that gave them the opportunity to make an obscene amount of money that almost everyone in the stands can only dream of. They insulted a supposedly racist country in which African-American athletes make millions of dollars playing in a league in which 68% of the players are black. Their lack of gratitude is staggering, grotesque, and utterly offensive.
 
To make matters worse, these players chose National Gold Star Mother's and Family's Day to diss America, a day set aside by Congress to remember the families of those who paid the last full measure of devotion for our security, our safety, and our freedom.
 
Easily the defining moment of the day came in London, where the Baltimore Ravens and the Jacksonville Jaguars played the NFL's annual game in the United Kingdom. The players – along with the Muslim owner of the Jaguars – locked arms and refused to honor America's national anthem but stood as one in respectful attention while the national anthem of the UK was being played. They would not honor the "Star-Spangled Banner" but stood in honor of "God Save the Queen." That moment, that moment right there, is the moment the NFL died.
 
It should be noted that the 17 Ravens and Jaguar players who defied their country's flag on foreign soil make a combined $448,373,425, an amount greater than the gross domestic product of a number of the world's nations.
 
In America, three teams (the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Seattle Seahawks, and the Tennessee Titans) stayed in the locker rooms for the playing of the national anthem, despite the fact that NFL policy requires them to be fined for doing so. (An NFL official told ESPN the feeble and weak-kneed head office has no interest in imposing any fines at all.) But the truth is if the NFL can fine entire teams for disrespecting the flag, they can certainly fine individual players for doing the same thing.
 
Only one player for the Steelers, former Army Ranger Alejandro Villanueva, a veteran of three tours in Afghanistan, came out of the locker room and stood at attention for the national anthem. The rest of the Steelers hid like surly cowards in the bowels of the stadium while the rest of the stadium honored America. By the count of the Associated Press, across the league over 200 players dissed their nation and their flag yesterday.
 
Thirty-two Denver Broncos took a knee, and LeSean McCoy of the Buffalo Bills nonchalantly did his stretching exercises during the anthem. Black Power salutes are now common not only on the sidelines but during the game in celebration of sacks, interceptions, and touchdowns. If the NFL does not get a handle on this right now, it's going to get ugly as new forms of angry protest are devised.
PacFan

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #83 on: October 12, 2017, 02:21:27 PM »
After nearly 400 separate posts on this subject, the huge thread on this subject was was finally put to bed. Essentially, it still simmers on in another thread in the Rant and Vent board. I suggest you continue it there, if anywhere, it certainly doesn't need to be resurrected yet again here.

Ah, it has now been moved to R&V. My thanks to the mods.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 03:24:58 PM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline OnaBadger58

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #84 on: October 12, 2017, 02:49:00 PM »
Why has this been all about Trump lately? Because he had the nads to speak up about how the players were disrespecting in uniform our flag, anthem and military/vets in stadiums on game days when no one else supposdly in charge (NFL, Team owners) would?


The NFL let this issue go on since Kaep started all this 'protesting'....shame on them...and now they are trying to find a way to calm the fans down that don't agree with them and are doing their own protesting.
Do you know how many players were on their knee during the anthem week 1? That would be one player who knelt (and 4 players that sat on the bench). This was becoming a non-issue before Trump came storming in calling out players. Now Kaepernick's message is completely diluted and it has become a dividing issue since Trump threw fuel to the fire that was burning out.

Kaepernick used his platform to get his message across. Racism is real. Police brutality is real. Oppression is real. Would his message been as strong if he protested and sent a message after the game or on Twitter? Absolutely not. That is why he used this time to protest. Because this is a real issue that needs to be addressed.  Nate Boyer, a Green Beret and former player, told him to knee because that's a way to show a sign of repsect.

I just don't understand how this gets turned into such an anti-American protest. It's truly unfortunate that Kapernick has all the right intentions, yet he gets crucified for trying to make America a better place for everyone.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 02:52:18 PM by OnaBadger58 »

Online ricky

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #85 on: October 12, 2017, 02:51:02 PM »
After nearly 400 separate posts on this subject, the huge thread on this subject was was finally put to bed. Essentially, it still simmers on in another thread in the Rant and Vent board. I suggest you continue it there, if anywhere, it certainly doesn't need to be resurrected yet again here.

How dare you stifle discussion! This issue is bigger than anything in the history of the world! We need to  deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse) deadhorse)
until we're all  crazy) banghead censs2 hysterical crazy) banghead rant rant banghead censs2 hysterical crazy) rant banghead censs2 hysterical crazy)

I actually wrote out then deleted a long rant. It made me feel better, but no one needs to read my temper tantrums. Perhaps others could take this lesson to heart.
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Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #86 on: October 12, 2017, 03:31:39 PM »
I actually wrote out then deleted a long rant. It made me feel better, but no one needs to read my temper tantrums. Perhaps others could take this lesson to heart.

Back when I was a mod on another board (many years ago, now), I would rip off a blazing reply to a post I strongly disagreed with, calling down the wrath of the gods - very satisfying. Then having got it out of my system somewhat, I deleted it, and either posted nothing, or typed another, much milder, more respectful answer. I know exactly where you are coming from ricky.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 03:34:49 PM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline Kepler

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #87 on: October 12, 2017, 03:32:26 PM »
Complete garbage.  Every president has had their positions.  Trump and his "lack of tolerance for other views" has met with Schumer and Pelosi and made agreements on immigration and other issues.  Dont worry though, there are other brain dead idiots peddling the same fascist labeling crap.

Trump's too stupid to orchestrate anything of that magnitude. The people behind him are a different story however. I wouldn't be surprised if they want Trump to be impeached so Pence can take over, which is even more scary. He's pushing for theocracy.

Offline Kepler

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #88 on: October 12, 2017, 03:33:57 PM »
Why has this been all about Trump lately? Because he had the nads to speak up about how the players were disrespecting in uniform our flag, anthem and military/vets in stadiums on game days when no one else supposdly in charge (NFL, Team owners) would?


The NFL let this issue go on since Kaep started all this 'protesting'....shame on them...and now they are trying to find a way to calm the fans down that don't agree with them and are doing their own protesting.
Do you know how many players were on their knee during the anthem week 1? That would be one player who knelt (and 4 players that sat on the bench). This was becoming a non-issue before Trump came storming in calling out players. Now Kaepernick's message is completely diluted and it has become a dividing issue since Trump threw fuel to the fire that was burning out.

Kaepernick used his platform to get his message across. Racism is real. Police brutality is real. Oppression is real. Would his message been as strong if he protested and sent a message after the game or on Twitter? Absolutely not. That is why he used this time to protest. Because this is a real issue that needs to be addressed.  Nate Boyer, a Green Beret and former player, told him to knee because that's a way to show a sign of repsect.

I just don't understand how this gets turned into such an anti-American protest. It's truly unfortunate that Kapernick has all the right intentions, yet he gets crucified for trying to make America a better place for everyone.

It's just plain old racism. Murica

Offline LMG

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Re: Not watching game.
« Reply #89 on: October 12, 2017, 05:06:11 PM »

It’s NFL Owners’ Job — Not the President’s — to Control Their Employees. 

When the NFL didn't do their job somebody had to say something and somebody did!! Some say owe but before Trump commented there was only 1 or 10 that were protesting and a non-issue!! Now after Trump's comments all of a sudden there is a bigger group and it's Trump's fault!! That is delushional reasoning!!


Where were all these additional players now protesting before??


It doesn't matter if it was just 1 or 10+ players doing their protesting, most probably not even knowing why. Players, or anyone else, that want to protest something that is your right but you don't do it on company time and in the case of the football players making it worse by disrespecting the flag, national anthem and the vets/military on game days in stadiums, where they are an employee not an owner, and all this in uniform. How sad that some can't read and understand facts.


But could everyday workers be fired for expressing their opinions at the office?


Here’s what experts say:


Does the First Amendment protect my right to share political opinions and keep my job?


The short answer: If you’re not a government employee: No.


More below from credible but informed unnamed sources;

Quotes;


"The NFL, trapped in a box of its own making, is desperate to find some graceful way out.  But there really is none.  If, as expected, the league orders all players to stand during the Anthem, one player has already predicted an "uproar," and many on the left will immediately scream "racism!"


We see it already.  After Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said that his players will stand, the charming Al Sharpton said Jones has a "plantation mentality."  The rapper Common went farther, accusing Jones of acting like a "slave owner."  Even sports pundit Michael Wilbon, usually a reasonable guy, trotted out the "plantation" analogy.


Are these people serious?  Unfortunately, they are.  But they are kneeling on very shaky legal ground.  Any attorney remotely familiar with First Amendment law will tell you that Jerry Jones is a private employer who can make and enforce the rules in his workplace, which just happens to be the stadium.  Same for Roger Goodell and the NFL.


One player who has emerged as a very articulate spokesperson for the protesters is Eric Reid of the San Francisco 49ers.  He asserts that players have a constitutional right to protest, which they do, but not in the arena.


Doesn’t the First Amendment also apply to NFL players?


NFL players are in the same legal position of any private-sector employee with respect to their First Amendment rights, Merrick Rossein a professor of law and former acting dean of CUNY Law School in New York said. Owners of NFL teams may even have additional rights to fire players, according to the terms players sign in their contracts, giving the owners “great leeway,” Rossein said.


Owners may be able to argue that they should be able to fire players who do not conduct themselves on and off the field appropriately, he said. NFL players are part of a union, the NFL Players Association, which may give players additional protections. Representatives for the union have said they support the players’ rights to protest.


“Those opinions are protected speech and a freedom that has been paid for by the sacrifice of men and women throughout history,” said the association’s executive director DeMaurice Smith. “No worker, nor any athlete — professional or not — should be forced to become less than human when it comes to protecting their basic health and safety. We understand that our job as a union is not to win a popularity contest and it comes with a duty to protect the rights of our members.”


NFL team owners thus far have also seemingly defended the players. “Instead of using their right to fire, the owners elevated the First Amendment principles of protest to support their players,” Rossein said."


End Quotes
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