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Author Topic: How good a coach is MM really?  (Read 8243 times)

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Offline SSG

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2017, 12:11:14 PM »
Ricky I really think you are trying too hard to deny what's right in front of you. Another coach with multiple years of playoff appearance and success with Jack squat at QB? Rex Ryan, didn't he have to deal with Pennington AND Sanchez among other subpar quarterbacks? Making the playoffs and even the AFC title game a couple times?

Fair enough. Remember, I asked for "sustained success". Ryan had two winning seasons with the Jets. Two championship game appearances, I believe. Then, the team got worse and worse. Is it because they didn't have a franchise QB? That is what the overwhelming evidence would suggest. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RyanRe0.htm

Anyway, if it wasn't for Bradichick and their unparalleled success in their 16 year collaboration. Could one have done it without the other? Is Belichick a great coach because he has Brady? Would Brady be as successful with another coach? Who knows?

Belichick is 13-6 when Brady has been out with injury or suspension.  The year TB12 was lost in week 1, Belichick used a back up QB who'd never made a start in either the NFL or college and won 11 games with him.  Last year, he went 3-1 with his back up and third string rookie QB.

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Online ricky

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2017, 01:29:25 PM »
Belichick is 13-6 when Brady has been out with injury or suspension.  The year TB12 was lost in week 1, Belichick used a back up QB who'd never made a start in either the NFL or college and won 11 games with him.  Last year, he went 3-1 with his back up and third string rookie QB.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to notice this. Cassel steps in, and NE keeps rolling. Same thing with Garoppolo during the "Deflategate" suspension. So, definitely this is the glaring exception. Why does this occur? Is Belichick that good? Is his system that immune to a major shock? I have no idea. But it seems that this is similar to the Yankees of the past. A mediocre player joins them, and suddenly becomes the missing part of a well oiled machine.

Bottom line, I agree. Belichick and New England are the exception. Because QB's that left the team have flopped big time on other teams. So, one exception. Can anyone come up with any more?
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Online Shinesman

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2017, 05:42:30 PM »
Belichick is 13-6 when Brady has been out with injury or suspension.  The year TB12 was lost in week 1, Belichick used a back up QB who'd never made a start in either the NFL or college and won 11 games with him.  Last year, he went 3-1 with his back up and third string rookie QB.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to notice this. Cassel steps in, and NE keeps rolling. Same thing with Garoppolo during the "Deflategate" suspension. So, definitely this is the glaring exception. Why does this occur? Is Belichick that good? Is his system that immune to a major shock? I have no idea. But it seems that this is similar to the Yankees of the past. A mediocre player joins them, and suddenly becomes the missing part of a well oiled machine.

Bottom line, I agree. Belichick and New England are the exception. Because QB's that left the team have flopped big time on other teams. So, one exception. Can anyone come up with any more?

Years ago I explained this to a friend prior to Brady being the guy he is today. I told him that Belichek created the ultimate system. Do your job and that's it. Before Brady was a superstar he made clear reads and passed to the first open guy. If no one was open he threw it away and protected the ball. Doing this he then got more comfortable that he was able to adjust during plays and is now the guy we see today. New England has weathered injuries everywhere on that team because they play simple football and concentrate on just doing your job and if everyone does, it will work as a whole. They are very successful in this right
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Offline Tony

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2017, 09:26:12 PM »
I honestly have no real opinion on his ability to coach a football team.  I’ve never met the man, or anyone who’s worked for him and I’d be ignorant to judge him in this regard.  The only thing I will offer an opinion on are his press conferences.  I don’t like them much.  MM comes across as bumbling and inarticulate.  He doesn’t appear comfortable - more like put-out and inconvenienced actually.  He appears stubborn and disgusted by many of the questions.  I honestly almost learn nothing from him in these interviews. 

I’m cognizant that being an effective public speaker isn’t a requirement of the job, or an effective measure of his ability to coach (reference Bill Belichick), but being an effective communicator is important, so I hope he’s more inspiring to his players and coaches.

“There’s a man going round, taking names, and he decides who to free and who to blame!”  LMG ala Johnny Cash

Online ricky

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2017, 06:44:26 AM »
Can MM inspire his team? We'll find out in the next few weeks. Because so far, the team has looked nervous, edgy, worried and altogether not ready for prime time. The defense are making stupid mistakes, while Hundley seems to be have seen the movie "Happy Feet" once too often. Can he instill a sense of confidence in the team? A "just do your job" mentality that works so well in NE? If not, if this team can't function without Rodgers as their QB, well, that is a major problem.
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Online The GM

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2017, 07:43:06 AM »
Can MM inspire his team? We'll find out in the next few weeks. Because so far, the team has looked nervous, edgy, worried and altogether not ready for prime time. The defense are making stupid mistakes, while Hundley seems to be have seen the movie "Happy Feet" once too often. Can he instill a sense of confidence in the team? A "just do your job" mentality that works so well in NE? If not, if this team can't function without Rodgers as their QB, well, that is a major problem.

Agree, it comes down to coaching and having guys ready to step up when called.  This team has been built like a house of cards. Jordy goes out for the year, team folds like a box.  Same with Rodgers.  This organization has failed miserably at getting backups ready to play.  Need to spread the practice   reps or something because it shows when someone goes down.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 08:41:27 AM by The GM »

Offline Twain

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2017, 08:08:36 AM »
I think McCarthy is an excellent coach, but that being said, I am ready for a change in philosophy.

Hire a talented defensive coordinator for head coach that can put together a top defense.

Bring in an offensive coordinator that doesn't put the game on Rodgers' ability to extend the play.  Do that by putting together an offensive line that can provide a clean pocket against four rushers, and run the ball well when the defense sits back.

I am tired of running three wide outs and Richard Rodgers against 7 man coverage schemes and exposing Rodgers to hits because he is out of the pocket.  Tired of a focus on attacking the perimeter when the NFL has opened up the middle of the field with rule changes..

I get that McCarthy is a good man, and a good coach, will get a job in 5 minutes after being released, and be successful in a new job, but after 12 years in Green Bay I think we have gone stale, and a change in philosophy might improve things.
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Offline Pugger

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2017, 08:24:06 AM »
I honestly have no real opinion on his ability to coach a football team.  I’ve never met the man, or anyone who’s worked for him and I’d be ignorant to judge him in this regard.  The only thing I will offer an opinion on are his press conferences.  I don’t like them much.  MM comes across as bumbling and inarticulate.  He doesn’t appear comfortable - more like put-out and inconvenienced actually.  He appears stubborn and disgusted by many of the questions.  I honestly almost learn nothing from him in these interviews. 

I’m cognizant that being an effective public speaker isn’t a requirement of the job, or an effective measure of his ability to coach (reference Bill Belichick), but being an effective communicator is important, so I hope he’s more inspiring to his players and coaches.

Yes, BB isn't the most articulate guy in pressers either.  We can only go on results.  His offenses are usually near the top of the league.  It helps to have a great QB but there were times against Detroit where a veteran QB of even modest skills could have made some of the plays Hundley could/did not.   

However, if he doesn't do something about this defense this offseason I'll be in the front of the crowd calling for his head.

Offline Tony

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2017, 10:29:08 AM »
A common theme I’ve heard from many folks over the last 5-6 years is that all of our schemes, offense and defense, are too predictable!  Even the players are now saying this (reference D Randall last week against Stafford).  I’d really like to see this changed.  You can’t gain a competitive edge when the other team know exactly how to dissect your scheme.  Creativity and surprise, while not getting overly complex - too much to ask?
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Offline Leader

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2017, 11:33:37 AM »
Zach Kruse:
Packers coach Mike McCarthy turned 54 years old today.

<Be sure to get your birthday wishes out today>

Online ricky

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2017, 12:35:36 PM »
I think McCarthy is an excellent coach, but that being said, I am ready for a change in philosophy.

Hire a talented defensive coordinator for head coach that can put together a top defense.

Bring in an offensive coordinator that doesn't put the game on Rodgers' ability to extend the play.  Do that by putting together an offensive line that can provide a clean pocket against four rushers, and run the ball well when the defense sits back.

I am tired of running three wide outs and Richard Rodgers against 7 man coverage schemes and exposing Rodgers to hits because he is out of the pocket.  Tired of a focus on attacking the perimeter when the NFL has opened up the middle of the field with rule changes..

I get that McCarthy is a good man, and a good coach, will get a job in 5 minutes after being released, and be successful in a new job, but after 12 years in Green Bay I think we have gone stale, and a change in philosophy might improve things.

So, the Packers need a defensive minded coach. And a top notch offensive coordinator. Two guys who will simply things while being unpredicatable. And, in the meantime, get an OL that (I'll add this little caveat) can stay healthy, and are excellent at both pass blocking and run blocking. And, of course, plan offenses that work and defenses that work. Got it!

Seriously, all your suggestions are terrific. But implementing them is another matter entirely. I'm positive that the coaches have thought of these things, and there are reasons they are doing what they're doing on offense. Defensively? Well,  deadhorse)

Finally, I'll ask some simple questions. Would the Packers have been more successful with another coach? We'll never know. Could another coach lead the team to multiple SB's? Maybe. Could MM? Maybe. Will AR be the same player when he comes back? Will the team stay healthier in the coming seasons? Will the younger players develop and become effective starters? Will the draft picks be immediate help? Will some FA's come in an give the team an immediate boost? And while you're at it, what are the winning numbers going to be in the next Powerball? This final question is of course the most important.  ;)
 
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Offline Twain

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2017, 01:24:45 PM »


So, the Packers need a defensive minded coach. And a top notch offensive coordinator. Two guys who will simply things while being unpredicatable. And, in the meantime, get an OL that (I'll add this little caveat) can stay healthy, and are excellent at both pass blocking and run blocking. And, of course, plan offenses that work and defenses that work. Got it!

Seriously, all your suggestions are terrific. But implementing them is another matter entirely. I'm positive that the coaches have thought of these things, and there are reasons they are doing what they're doing on offense. Defensively? Well,  deadhorse)

Finally, I'll ask some simple questions. Would the Packers have been more successful with another coach? We'll never know. Could another coach lead the team to multiple SB's? Maybe. Could MM? Maybe. Will AR be the same player when he comes back? Will the team stay healthier in the coming seasons? Will the younger players develop and become effective starters? Will the draft picks be immediate help? Will some FA's come in an give the team an immediate boost? And while you're at it, what are the winning numbers going to be in the next Powerball? This final question is of course the most important.  ;)
 

So we should stay the course.   Don't try and protect Rodgers, let him keep running around getting exposed to hits while extending plays, let him either get knocked out for the season or play the last quarter of the season injured as he has for 4 of the last 5 seasons, and have a defense that can't play an effective zone coverage scheme.  Got it!

You are entitled to you opinion Ricky, but I have no idea what it is from what you write.  Snark is not content.

You can mock my viewpoint, but chew on this:  In effectively 10 years as a starter, Aaron Rodgers has been sacked 351 times.  Peyton Manning in 17 years was sacked 303 times.  If the offensive philosophy doesn't change, will Rodgers be able to play as long as Manning?  I don't know, and neither does anyone else, but his injury status over the last 5 years suggests no.  Just sayin.




« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 01:49:19 PM by Twain »
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Online ricky

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2017, 02:22:54 PM »
So we should stay the course.   Don't try and protect Rodgers, let him keep running around getting exposed to hits while extending plays, let him either get knocked out for the season or play the last quarter of the season injured as he has for 4 of the last 5 seasons, and have a defense that can't play an effective zone coverage scheme.  Got it!

You are entitled to you opinion Ricky, but I have no idea what it is from what you write.  Snark is not content.

You can mock my viewpoint, but chew on this:  In effectively 10 years as a starter, Aaron Rodgers has been sacked 351 times.  Peyton Manning in 17 years was sacked 303 times.  If the offensive philosophy doesn't change, will Rodgers be able to play as long as Manning?  I don't know, and neither does anyone else, but his injury status over the last 5 years suggests no.  Just sayin.

First, sorry about the snark. Uncalled for an undeserved.

Stay the course? Hardly. A defensive makeover is needed. As far as AR getting sacked, he does have a habit of holding onto the ball. Whether this is because his receivers aren't open enough, or he is looking for a larger gain is something that can be debated. Also, the OL has had a run of injuries that is amazingly bad. At the same time, the OL has been built to try to protect the passer. But , just as DB's can't be expected to stay with a receiver forever, an OLman can't be expected to hold his block forever. Expecially if AR moves around, at which time he is much more effective as a passer. A lot of his movement is planned, as he is not a great pocket passer, but outstanding while on the move.

Now, replacing MM with a defensive minded coach has been explored by me in an earlier post. It's not a matter of disagreeing, but of finding the proper person to replace MM. Same thing with an OC. Right now, it seems that AR is comfortable with MM. You apparently want to mess with tha chemistry. I'm not so sure. As stated earlier, its easier to find a decent HC than it is a franchise QB. Much less an all time star like Rodgers. Perhaps the team should be looking to upgrade their WR's so they get open more easily. Or get a better OC who will design plays to accomplish that. And maybe AR should settle for smaller gains, or get rid of the ball more quickly.


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Offline RT

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2017, 07:34:34 AM »
Rob Demovsky‏Verified account
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Sunday was Mike McCarthy's 50th divisional win since he became the Packers head coach in 2006. The only team with more division wins in that span is the Patriots with 52.

Offline Pugger

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Re: How good a coach is MM really?
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2017, 09:06:41 AM »
A common theme I’ve heard from many folks over the last 5-6 years is that all of our schemes, offense and defense, are too predictable!  Even the players are now saying this (reference D Randall last week against Stafford).  I’d really like to see this changed.  You can’t gain a competitive edge when the other team know exactly how to dissect your scheme.  Creativity and surprise, while not getting overly complex - too much to ask?

Creativity is fine but like Shinesman said in this thread - NE normally doesn't do anything tricky.  They do what Lombardi did - execute the hell out of their plays in their system.  If the players don't screw up they are difficult to stop.