December 14, 2018, 09:03:03 AM

Author Topic: Janis to Cleveland  (Read 2428 times)

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Offline Favre2Rodgers

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2018, 12:03:46 PM »
The Browns have a history of developing WR's. This might be a great place for Janis.

Offline ricky

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2018, 12:53:29 PM »
Janis will be hard to replace for the simple reason that he was one of the best gunners in the NFC.

He had extraordinary speed and just about perfect size for that job.

Plus, he can return kicks also.

As per his WR possibilities, I don't think the Packers ever took the time to really work with him.  Coming from where he did, that is what he needed. In Cleveland I think they will.  He will be getting a fresh start.

Donald Driver was also a seventh round pick, and he became a terrific WR for the Packers. Janis was given the opportunity and coaching to be better. He either didn't have the physique to be able to be effective (The GM did an excellent job of diagnosing his problems). Or, he didn't have the mental acuity/commitment to learn that separates starters from bench warmers. Will it be different in Cleveland? We'll see. Though I get the feeling that if Janis does manage to have a good game, there will be a lot of "I told you so'ers" who will emerge. Similar to Peterson going to Arizona- he had a strong first game, and some on here, who had wanted the Packers to sign him, were in full throat. But when he washed out and was benched? Crickets. Expect the same thing with Janis. And for a different view of Janis, and in response to all the mourners, here:

 https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/jeff-janis-wasnt-set-up-to-fail-537
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Offline Twain

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2018, 03:29:11 PM »
He had ample opportunities to be coached up by the Packers. 

It is more than route running with Janis- he is not a natural at catching with his hands so he ends up being a body catcher.  That gives him a tiny catch radius so he has to be wide open to get the ball, as well as sets him up for deflections that result in interceptions.

His speed is good, but without being able to set up the route and catch with the hands he will always be special teams.

"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline Gregg

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2018, 06:40:44 PM »
A tiny catch radius?

Ask Patrick Peterson about that one.

Offline Twain

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2018, 06:02:06 AM »
A tiny catch radius?

Ask Patrick Peterson about that one.

You have to look at his entire body of work.  "Catch Radius" isn't about what you can get once in a while, it is about what you can reliably catch.  The hail mary was simply the exception that proves the rule.

He went up and got the ball on his hands, and then bobbled it to the ground.  Admittedly, Peterson got in there and was pulling on his arm and the ball, but not the solid hands that you look for in a WR.  Compare that catch with the one Richard Rodgers made in Detroit in much heavier traffic.

If you want to thrive as a wide receiver in the NFL, you have to catch with the hands, not the body, and that is not Janis.   When you catch with the body, The QB has to put it on the body, thus the reliable catch radius is tiny.

If he goes out with Cleveland and has a big season as a wide receiver, I will eat my words, but I don't see that happening.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 06:40:37 AM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline phanatic1

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2018, 06:49:51 AM »
Not sure anyone in the Browns organization is expecting Janis to come in and even be a #3 guy.  But, if he is a reliable #4 and continues to be a core special teamer - then there should be questions asked of MM why he could not play in Green Bay. 

There hasn't been any details that I can find about his new contract, but I would have had no issue of keeping him as a #5 WR and the special teams leader.  I can't find it now, but the stats showed that he forced a large number of fair catches on punts and saved a lot of hidden yards.  While this might be easy to dismiss, his special teams play is going to be hard to replace.   

Offline Twain

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2018, 07:40:49 AM »
I don't know if this is accurate, but if it is, it would cast some light on this issue- it is snap counts for 2016-

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2016-snap-counts.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JaniJe00/fantasy/2016

Janis had the 5th highest snap counts of wide receivers, with Montgomery 4th but playing RB, so one could argue that Janis was the #4 that year-  with a 6 game run with a significant number of snaps,  and only produced 93 yds.  He fundamentally was replace by Allison later in the season due to production issues.

I just don't think we can say he didn't get chances.  He had his moments, but wasn't consistent producing when he got the chances.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 07:44:42 AM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline RT

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2018, 08:38:11 AM »
I might be wrong, but I think those busy debating Janis' merits as a WR are speeding 100 MPH down a deadend road.

Who/What is Jeff Janis? Janis is a one percentile athlete that excels at covering punts and kicks and moonlights at returning kickoffs. Also plays WR in emergency situations and is their best blocking WR when the offense is attempting to runout the clock.

Because of his measurables fans have put some unrealistic expectations on what they believed he was or should be. After the Arizona playoff game people let their minds run wild and when those expectations fell flat many fans seem to turn on him. Rather than appreciate the fact that he is an exceptional special teams player they choose to focus on what he is not.

Is there a place for such a player? Empty your minds for a minute of all the bias and misconceptions that are build up over the past couple of years about Janis. Steve Tasker spent 12 years in the NFL and caught a total of 51 passes, yet reached godlike statis with the Bills fans, while Janis does the same thing and Packers fans debate his catch radius. The Patriots just re-signed Matthew Slater to play special teams and no one in Boston is discussing his shortcoming with catching the ball even if he does have a WR next to his name. Each year the Packers keep 5 or 6 WR, is it so crazy that each year that 6th WR/STer spot go to a guy that is the major reason they had one of the best coverage units in the NFL last year? The Bills who played in 4 Super Bowls with Tasker and the current Patriots team are a few teams that seem to feel their is value in such a player.

A couple of things of interest on Janis, Andy Herman posted a 1 minute 51 second clip of Janis highlights on his twitter yesterday. One of the things that is striking in the clip is how many times he outruns NFL DB's who had an angle on him.

Also on twitter Zach Kruse wonders if the Arizona playoff Hail Mary TD catch isn't, " Maybe the two most incredible individual feats on a single play ever".

Offline Twain

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2018, 09:18:53 AM »
I might be wrong, but I think those busy debating Janis' merits as a WR are speeding 100 MPH down a deadend road.

Who/What is Jeff Janis? Janis is a one percentile athlete that excels at covering punts and kicks and moonlights at returning kickoffs. Also plays WR in emergency situations and is their best blocking WR when the offense is attempting to runout the clock.

Because of his measurables fans have put some unrealistic expectations on what they believed he was or should be. After the Arizona playoff game people let their minds run wild and when those expectations fell flat many fans seem to turn on him. Rather than appreciate the fact that he is an exceptional special teams player they choose to focus on what he is not.

Is there a place for such a player? Empty your minds for a minute of all the bias and misconceptions that are build up over the past couple of years about Janis. Steve Tasker spent 12 years in the NFL and caught a total of 51 passes, yet reached godlike statis with the Bills fans, while Janis does the same thing and Packers fans debate his catch radius. The Patriots just re-signed Matthew Slater to play special teams and no one in Boston is discussing his shortcoming with catching the ball even if he does have a WR next to his name. Each year the Packers keep 5 or 6 WR, is it so crazy that each year that 6th WR/STer spot go to a guy that is the major reason they had one of the best coverage units in the NFL last year? The Bills who played in 4 Super Bowls with Tasker and the current Patriots team are a few teams that seem to feel their is value in such a player.

A couple of things of interest on Janis, Andy Herman posted a 1 minute 51 second clip of Janis highlights on his twitter yesterday. One of the things that is striking in the clip is how many times he outruns NFL DB's who had an angle on him.

Also on twitter Zach Kruse wonders if the Arizona playoff Hail Mary TD catch isn't, " Maybe the two most incredible individual feats on a single play ever".

I agree with everything you say.

I think the problem with keeping Janis is that the team has done a poor job of maintaining reliable depth at WR.  Since Adams, they haven't really hit on a WR, so the bottom end of the position has not really developed well.   They need to bring in a bunch of guys to see if they can find one or two that can produce at the position.  If we had 4 or 5 solid players at WR, then Janis would stay for special teams.

I think WR is close to a crisis position as it was the year Nelson tore his ACL and Cobb, Adams and Montgomery got hurt.  They need as many swings at the WR ball as they can get this year.  Not signing Janis gives them an extra swing. 

As an aside, I always wondered why they didn't try to convert him to defense- size and speed for safety, shows as a gunner he can be physical.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 09:23:05 AM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline heikks86

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2018, 09:50:16 AM »
I might be wrong, but I think those busy debating Janis' merits as a WR are speeding 100 MPH down a deadend road.

Who/What is Jeff Janis? Janis is a one percentile athlete that excels at covering punts and kicks and moonlights at returning kickoffs. Also plays WR in emergency situations and is their best blocking WR when the offense is attempting to runout the clock.

Because of his measurables fans have put some unrealistic expectations on what they believed he was or should be. After the Arizona playoff game people let their minds run wild and when those expectations fell flat many fans seem to turn on him. Rather than appreciate the fact that he is an exceptional special teams player they choose to focus on what he is not.

Is there a place for such a player? Empty your minds for a minute of all the bias and misconceptions that are build up over the past couple of years about Janis. Steve Tasker spent 12 years in the NFL and caught a total of 51 passes, yet reached godlike statis with the Bills fans, while Janis does the same thing and Packers fans debate his catch radius. The Patriots just re-signed Matthew Slater to play special teams and no one in Boston is discussing his shortcoming with catching the ball even if he does have a WR next to his name. Each year the Packers keep 5 or 6 WR, is it so crazy that each year that 6th WR/STer spot go to a guy that is the major reason they had one of the best coverage units in the NFL last year? The Bills who played in 4 Super Bowls with Tasker and the current Patriots team are a few teams that seem to feel their is value in such a player.

A couple of things of interest on Janis, Andy Herman posted a 1 minute 51 second clip of Janis highlights on his twitter yesterday. One of the things that is striking in the clip is how many times he outruns NFL DB's who had an angle on him.

Also on twitter Zach Kruse wonders if the Arizona playoff Hail Mary TD catch isn't, " Maybe the two most incredible individual feats on a single play ever".

I agree with everything you say.

I think the problem with keeping Janis is that the team has done a poor job of maintaining reliable depth at WR.  Since Adams, they haven't really hit on a WR, so the bottom end of the position has not really developed well.   They need to bring in a bunch of guys to see if they can find one or two that can produce at the position.  If we had 4 or 5 solid players at WR, then Janis would stay for special teams.

I think WR is close to a crisis position as it was the year Nelson tore his ACL and Cobb, Adams and Montgomery got hurt.  They need as many swings at the WR ball as they can get this year.  Not signing Janis gives them an extra swing. 

As an aside, I always wondered why they didn't try to convert him to defense- size and speed for safety, shows as a gunner he can be physical.

Since drafting Adams they haven’t taken a wr high in the draft, most wrs they took were 5-7th round picks, they had Nelson, Cobb and Adams so at the time they didn’t think they needed to find another wr

Offline phanatic1

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2018, 12:26:27 PM »
I might be wrong, but I think those busy debating Janis' merits as a WR are speeding 100 MPH down a deadend road.

Who/What is Jeff Janis? Janis is a one percentile athlete that excels at covering punts and kicks and moonlights at returning kickoffs. Also plays WR in emergency situations and is their best blocking WR when the offense is attempting to runout the clock.

Because of his measurables fans have put some unrealistic expectations on what they believed he was or should be. After the Arizona playoff game people let their minds run wild and when those expectations fell flat many fans seem to turn on him. Rather than appreciate the fact that he is an exceptional special teams player they choose to focus on what he is not.

Is there a place for such a player? Empty your minds for a minute of all the bias and misconceptions that are build up over the past couple of years about Janis. Steve Tasker spent 12 years in the NFL and caught a total of 51 passes, yet reached godlike statis with the Bills fans, while Janis does the same thing and Packers fans debate his catch radius. The Patriots just re-signed Matthew Slater to play special teams and no one in Boston is discussing his shortcoming with catching the ball even if he does have a WR next to his name. Each year the Packers keep 5 or 6 WR, is it so crazy that each year that 6th WR/STer spot go to a guy that is the major reason they had one of the best coverage units in the NFL last year? The Bills who played in 4 Super Bowls with Tasker and the current Patriots team are a few teams that seem to feel their is value in such a player.

A couple of things of interest on Janis, Andy Herman posted a 1 minute 51 second clip of Janis highlights on his twitter yesterday. One of the things that is striking in the clip is how many times he outruns NFL DB's who had an angle on him.

Also on twitter Zach Kruse wonders if the Arizona playoff Hail Mary TD catch isn't, " Maybe the two most incredible individual feats on a single play ever".

RT I was thinking the same thing about Slater.  Forgot about Tasker - but he was a difference maker for a really good Bills team. 

In an interesting comparison, I was reading the Jason Kidd interview about how the expectations climbed quickly when the Bucks hit the .500 mark his first year and all of a sudden - anything less than a 50 win season his next was unacceptable.  For Janis - that Arizona game probably led to his downfall.  Everyone expected him to become the next great WR in Green Bay after the Cards game and it just didn't happen.  Why?  Not really sure, but a number of things probably occurred.

And honestly, I am kind of surprised how easy the Packers let him go.  With the history of the Packers cover teams, his departure  will hurt those units.  MM talks about his emphasis on special teams and he lets his best special teamer walk out the door. 

Offline LMG

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2018, 07:29:20 PM »
Remember Janis was a 'free agent' and could sign with the highest bidder.


I for one am not going to get all choked up about his departure from the Packers but will wish him well with his new team.
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Online craig

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Re: Janis to Cleveland
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2018, 08:58:38 AM »
...Who/What is Jeff Janis? Janis is a one percentile athlete that excels at covering punts and kicks and moonlights at returning kickoffs. Also plays WR in emergency situations and is their best blocking WR when the offense is attempting to runout the clock.

....Is there a place for such a player? .... Steve Tasker .... The Patriots just re-signed Matthew Slater.....  The Bills who played in 4 Super Bowls with Tasker and the current Patriots team are a few teams that seem to feel their is value in such a player....

The Packers decided that there was not a place for such a player.  Rightly or wrongly. Perhaps they were dumb as we seemingly judge all of their decisions to be.  But that was there decision. 

I think Twain's thoughts may capture their reasoning. 

Tangent: RT, you note that the WR beside JJ's name is misleading.  Janis should presumably just be listed as "gunner", but nobody lists guys as "gunner".  All rosters list only 3 ST-only "positions":  P, LS, and K.  (Might also be better if a pure gunner-only guy wasn't wasting WR snaps and coaching attention in camp and in practice.) 
 
I accept MM/Gute's logic, assuming Twain has captured their thinking.  Not only for the WR group, but likewise for CB, and safety, and OL, and TE.   

With the variably desperate vulnerability of those groups in terms of snaps players,  I agree with Twain they may want to try as many guys as possible who **might** have a shot to develop into actual snaps-WR, or snaps-CB, or snaps-Safety, or snaps-guard, or snaps-tackle, or snaps-center, or snaps-tight end. 

Every roster spot dedicated to a ST-only guy is a spot unavailable for a potential-snaps developmental player. 

Maybe that's not a thing, and long-shots like Yancey and Pipkens and Donatello will never contribute as much as an established and sure-to-be-good gunner.   But given the uncertainties of player development, and the physical talents they saw that attracted them to guys like Yancey and Pipkens in the first place, I can understand why they may prefer to keep as many of the younger developmental prospects as possible: in hopes that between good evaluation, good projection, good coaching, and good luck, they might hit on a few. 

Likewise they've got 12 draft picks, 6 of them after 5.30.  Probably few of those last 6 guys will contribute as much this year as a good gunner would.  So one might well reason that the last spot on the roster should go to the gunner over one of those last-six +D draft-pick prospects.  But there will presumably be qualities about each of those six guys that could enable them to become productive snaps players someday, *IF* the developmental process MM is so proud of can work.  So I can see the logic in just keeping the gunner, but I can also understand Gute's logic in perhaps preferring to keep the developmental guy whose long-term value might end up being more than a gunner.