October 16, 2019, 12:31:03 PM

Author Topic: Packers transactions  (Read 42986 times)

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Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #375 on: August 12, 2019, 07:13:19 AM »
You surely are welcome to your opinion 1265. In the words of George S. Patton,“If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.”

I think your perceived ideal is naïve thinking and lacks understanding of building a team. There is no one cutting off his nose to spite his face, it is about building a culture first with people who are trained to have a one-mindedness of being united as one. Get rid of all the carryover personnel and remove anyone who by chance may differ in opinion because of training from the past leadership. It is the norm in the corporate world and it is the norm in the NFL corporate world also.

But again, everyone has an opinion and are welcome to them as they wish to dream life to be, even if no real world application has been applied.

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #376 on: August 12, 2019, 11:18:26 AM »
You surely are welcome to your opinion 1265. In the words of George S. Patton,“If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.”

I think your perceived ideal is naïve thinking and lacks understanding of building a team.

I would counter that naivety is expecting all GMs to have the same view, over what is basically removing good players for lesser ones. Still, as you say, everyone's entitled to their opinion, it's what makes these Packer boards interesting.
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Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #377 on: August 12, 2019, 02:23:12 PM »
The Packers have signed FB Tommy Bohanon, they are now back to the roster limit of 90 players.

Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #378 on: August 12, 2019, 02:36:01 PM »
Chris Tomasson of the Pioneer Press is reporting that the Packers were one of the teams trying to trade for K Kaare Vedvik of the Ravens who the Vikings traded a 5th round pick for.

Just more of the out with the old employees and in with anyone new for the Gutes regime. The natural process of moving towards having 100% their own guys.

Online craig

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #379 on: August 12, 2019, 03:02:42 PM »
...I'm very interested to see how the Josh Jones saga plays out. Gutes like every GM in the history of the universe wants to flush out all the players that are not 'their guys' regardless if they are good players or not. ....

But the catch here with Jones and Gutes is that it is well documented that Gutes is the guy who pounded the table hard to draft Jones in the first place. Does he try to sweep it under the rug and pass it off as a TT error or does he try to make it work for another year because everyone knows Jones was his guy. It would seem with the Burks injury that there is now a place for Jones to contribute or has Gutes mentally moved on?   

I agree with 1265 that not every GM is the same and makes the same moves. 

There are principles that carry over from the corporate world to the NFL, but some structures are unique to pro sports.  In corporate world, everybody is an unrestricted free agent, and there is no salary cap.  That is essentially true regarding NFL management personnel.  But   in a league where player acquisition is salary capped and constrained by a take-your-turn draft, flushing out "all players" is not practical.  I see your Parsells example as more relevant to management than to players. 

Gute as an internal guy who'd run college scouting for years puts him in an especially unique situation.  You allude to "not 'their guys'", but I wonder how you define them?  Gute retained the vast majority of the college scouting department, promoting many of them.  Were those "Ted's guys", so Gute keeping most contradicts your premise?  Or were most of them "Gute's guys", because they'd already worked under his departmental authority for years? 

The same goes for players.  Is Jones "not his guy" because Ted drafted him?  Or is Jones very much "his guy" because he scouted and recommended him?  In a sense, one might argue that probably every drafted-guy on the roster is "gute's guy" because his college scouting department recommended all of them?  Or will the argument self-fulfil and we can just conclude that any guy he keeps was "his guy", but any guy released was "not his guy", and was taken by Ted against Gute's recommendation? 

You allude to "flushing out" "all" the players" who are not "his guys", even if they are good.  Obviously a huge fraction of the roster was not drafted by Ted, with or without Gute's advocacy. 

He's not flushing out "All" of them.  Rodgers, huge-dollar resign.  Dean Lowry, who would have been easy guy to "flush out", was instead extended.  Montravious Adams, rather than getting "flushed out", is instead being promoted to a starting role.  So the evidence suggests that the decision-making is case-by-case, as is normal for player evaluation by GM's across the league. 

I suggest that in Jones's case, if he makes it, he makes it because they think he has potential to be useful, relative to the alternatives.  And if he doesn't, it's not because Gute is trying to flush him out because he's Ted's guy; it will probably be because they don't think he'll help the team.  In a sense, you're kind of framing Jones so that you'll be set up to criticize either way.  If he stays, you'll be able to argue that it's because Gute "pounded the table" and is trying to "sweep it under the rug"; if he goes, you'll be poised to say that Gute is just trying to "flush out" a guy regardless of if he's good. 

1265 noted spite your face, and you said not really.  But if you're "flushing" players "regardless of whether they are good or not", only to replace them with players that are not good/less good, I don't see how that isn't counterproductive and very much "spite-your-face-esque."

The Packers have been a sub-.500 team with iffy talent.  I don't really think they are in position to really be "flushing" "all" players "regardless of whether they are good or not".  It's a very competitive league.  I have no idea whether Gute is going to emerge as a good or a bad GM; but the Packers can't really afford to have ego-motivated GM decisions flushing out good players and weakening the team.   

Online craig

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #380 on: August 12, 2019, 03:04:31 PM »
Chris Tomasson of the Pioneer Press is reporting that the Packers were one of the teams trying to trade for K Kaare Vedvik of the Ravens who the Vikings traded a 5th round pick for.

Just more of the out with the old employees and in with anyone new for the Gutes regime. The natural process of moving towards having 100% their own guys.

My understanding is that the Vikings anticipate using him as their primary punter, and as injury-insurance as a kicker.  I'm guessing the Packers would have had different usage in mind, kicker first and punter-insurance second. 

Offline ricky

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #381 on: August 12, 2019, 05:16:43 PM »
Chris Tomasson of the Pioneer Press is reporting that the Packers were one of the teams trying to trade for K Kaare Vedvik of the Ravens who the Vikings traded a 5th round pick for.

Just more of the out with the old employees and in with anyone new for the Gutes regime. The natural process of moving towards having 100% their own guys.

Maybe. Vedvik is seen as an up and coming kicker who can also punt. Crosby is getting older, and is pretty expensive. If they had a cheaper, reliable replacement, they'd save $3.6 million. Also, this is Crosby's contract year. They are exploring their options, and are willing to make business decisions, as they did with Daniels. So, is it a matter of housecleaning? Or an opportunity to replace an aging player with a younger, much cheaper option? On the other hand, Crosby is a known quality in actual games. Vedvik is an unknown.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/mason-crosby-3448/
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 05:31:27 PM by ricky »
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Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #382 on: August 12, 2019, 07:20:50 PM »
Chris Tomasson of the Pioneer Press is reporting that the Packers were one of the teams trying to trade for K Kaare Vedvik of the Ravens who the Vikings traded a 5th round pick for.

Just more of the out with the old employees and in with anyone new for the Gutes regime. The natural process of moving towards having 100% their own guys.

Maybe. Vedvik is seen as an up and coming kicker who can also punt. Crosby is getting older, and is pretty expensive. If they had a cheaper, reliable replacement, they'd save $3.6 million. Also, this is Crosby's contract year. They are exploring their options, and are willing to make business decisions, as they did with Daniels. So, is it a matter of housecleaning? Or an opportunity to replace an aging player with a younger, much cheaper option? On the other hand, Crosby is a known quality in actual games. Vedvik is an unknown.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/mason-crosby-3448/

All the amateur capologist are bold about saving cap on a kicker until he misses a playoff kick to win a game. Minnesota and Chicago would be glad to take Crosby off the Packers hands. Minnesota has spent a 6th, a 5th and now traded a 5th the last 3 seasons and still don't know if they have a kicker who can make a clutch kick. The Bears and Vikings both missed chip shot FG's to advance in the playoffs the last 2 season, think they wouldn't gladly pay a kicker 3.6M  who can make FG's in January. 

Online craig

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #383 on: August 12, 2019, 07:54:39 PM »
Gute may be dumber than an amateur capologist, but it would appear he was willing to at least consider trading for the opportunity to not pay the January kicker.  I guess what I'm saying is that the report implies that it's not just stupid amateur capologists who consider that;  apparently it's a professional GM who does, too.  (Being professional, of course, is not proof in itself that he isn't just as dumb or dumber than an amateur, I realize!) 

Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #384 on: August 12, 2019, 09:18:57 PM »
Gute may be dumber than an amateur capologist, but it would appear he was willing to at least consider trading for the opportunity to not pay the January kicker.  I guess what I'm saying is that the report implies that it's not just stupid amateur capologists who consider that;  apparently it's a professional GM who does, too.  (Being professional, of course, is not proof in itself that he isn't just as dumb or dumber than an amateur, I realize!)

This whole conversation seems to have gone off course a bit. At no point am I or was I trying to imply that Gutes is stupid/dumb/bad/wrong at what he is doing for the most part. He is doing what I expected and what the vast majority of GM's have done in the past. People are so sure that the past leadership was failing and doing everything wrong that to suggest that the new sheriff in town might have a flaw to his game seems to be all it takes to trigger most.

Going back and looking at the rosters from when Wolf took over in 1992 to 1995. After 3 year their were only 3 players left from the team he took over by '95. Butler, Ruettgers and Jacke and Jacke was let go the next year. The natural reaction from fans is that they all sucked, but there were many that went on to have good careers elsewhere like Bryce Paup winning defensive player of the year with the Bills. They weren't Wolf's guys is all.

Craig, you pointed out earlier what I was trying to point out with Jones. This is not the normal changing of GM's and it is a little more clouded on who is Gutes guys and who is not, but remember that Gutes was overseeing the south region for scouting under TT. So those players drafted over the past several years from that region by TT probably would of had Gutes thumbs up. What is also interesting is the high volume of players signed from the south region since he took over as GM. In the past year he has added 5 players from Mississippi St. and 4 from Texas A&M alone, I count a total of 34 players added that probably fall in that region. Just about every player claimed off waivers comes from that region. Derrick Jones just claim from the Jets is from Mississippi, Keith Ford is from Texas A&M, Markus Jones is from Angelo State, that is just the waiver claims in the past 10 days or so. Is he leaning to heavily on the region he knows and not trusting those under him? Oh sorry about that, don't want to trigger the Gutes walks on water crowd.         

Offline ricky

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #385 on: August 12, 2019, 09:29:25 PM »

All the amateur capologist are bold about saving cap on a kicker until he misses a playoff kick to win a game. Minnesota and Chicago would be glad to take Crosby off the Packers hands. Minnesota has spent a 6th, a 5th and now traded a 5th the last 3 seasons and still don't know if they have a kicker who can make a clutch kick. The Bears and Vikings both missed chip shot FG's to advance in the playoffs the last 2 season, think they wouldn't gladly pay a kicker 3.6M  who can make FG's in January.

Please note that I was laying out an alternative scenario to "Gute only wants his guys", rather than putting forth the idea that Crosby should be replaced by Vedvik. Yes, it would save the Packers a considerable amount of money. But as I clearly stated, Crosby is a known quantity in real football games; Vedvik is an exhibition game/training camp star. Will it translate to making kicks in high pressure situations? Who knows? Just wanted to set the record straight. Because apparently you seriously misread my post.
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Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #386 on: August 12, 2019, 10:01:14 PM »

All the amateur capologist are bold about saving cap on a kicker until he misses a playoff kick to win a game. Minnesota and Chicago would be glad to take Crosby off the Packers hands. Minnesota has spent a 6th, a 5th and now traded a 5th the last 3 seasons and still don't know if they have a kicker who can make a clutch kick. The Bears and Vikings both missed chip shot FG's to advance in the playoffs the last 2 season, think they wouldn't gladly pay a kicker 3.6M  who can make FG's in January.

Please note that I was laying out an alternative scenario to "Gute only wants his guys", rather than putting forth the idea that Crosby should be replaced by Vedvik. Yes, it would save the Packers a considerable amount of money. But as I clearly stated, Crosby is a known quantity in real football games; Vedvik is an exhibition game/training camp star. Will it translate to making kicks in high pressure situations? Who knows? Just wanted to set the record straight. Because apparently you seriously misread my post.

Was not meant as a pointed comment aimed at you ricky or anyone else for that matter. Just a general comment countering those that believe saving a few dollar makes the Packers a better team now or in the future.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #387 on: August 13, 2019, 04:04:19 AM »
Wolf confessed that he regretted letting Bryce Paup get away in free agency.

Coming off a pro-bowl season Wolf thought it would be too expensive to extend Paup’s contract.

Paup was DPOY the next year and was a monster at BUF for about 3 years running.

His presence on the defense in the Super Bowl loss to Denver may have tipped the scales in GB’s favor, and Wolf later realized his error in judgement.

Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #388 on: August 13, 2019, 02:05:47 PM »
I don't think this Dude even got a cup of coffee.



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The Packers have waived CB Derrick Jones, who was claimed off waivers from the Jets on Sunday, because of a failed physical, per a source.

Offline ricky

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #389 on: August 29, 2019, 07:07:37 PM »
A week before opening the season against the Bears (BOO!), the Packers sign a guard who played for them last year. So, he could be stashed on the PS, or this could mean that they want an upgrade from the bottom of the roster.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-sign-former-bears-guard-dejon-allen-431
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid