October 19, 2019, 03:10:36 AM

Author Topic: Packers transactions  (Read 43480 times)

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Offline craig

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2018, 11:30:21 AM »
...I do think that #12 will take some vertical shots, but only to keep defenses honest.

The addition of Lewis makes me think that MM/Philbin will being trying to implement a much more balanced run/pass ball control offense that's intended keep opposing  defenses on the field longer....

"a much more balanced run/pass".  Seems to me the Packers have been a small-bite ball-control-wannabe offense for a long time.  2011 seems like a long, long, long time ago when they sometimes had big plays!  Long completions have been few-and-far between, (especially apart from free plays), since pre-Lacy years, I think.  They've been TRYING to be ball-control....

Also, for the majority of MM's years, his run/pass distribution has been above league-average (more run-oriented than average) more often than below (more pass-oriented).  So I don't think the balance has habitually or intentionally been inappropriately pass-excessive.  (Unless the whole league is dumb).  (Obviously when they're playing catchup, or two years ago when the running approach wasn't working that well and they needed to win a bunch of games at the end, they sometimes become more pass-oriented....)

I also admit that in considering whether to divert from league-average, when I compare the relative merits of Aaron Rodgers at QB versus Jamaal Williams at RB, a certain logic suggests it might be smarter to be a little more pass-oriented than the average team, given the advantage we have at QB relative to the average team.  Don't feel quite the same advantage at RB with Williams etc.. Similar with Bakhti and Bulaga, those are both really good pass-blockers but mediocre run-blockers.  So there's a certain logic in taking advantage of what your personnel are better at doing? 

JMO too, but I think the top priority of the offense should be to score, not to play defense.  If you can score a quick TD, take the 7 points every time.  (I also think the combo of a quick-strike TD, then a 3-and-out stop defensively, followed quickly by another possession in good field possession, is a super-awesome thing!  And can be possible....) 

I also think having some deep vertical success, like you say, is invaluable in keeping defense honest.  And in so doing is really good for ball control, possession, and defense.  Adams is good but he's not fast and vertical.  Cobb isn't fast and vertical.  Graham certainly isn't fast and vertical. I just think defenses are going to have a shot to really cheat and collapse the secondary net tighter and tighter.  If you only send out 3 kinda-slow receivers, seems like the defensive net could cheat a whole lot.  Last year Hyde would routinely play so deep that he'd just routinely allow the first-down catch and then tackle the receiver.  If the Packers have no vertical game, why shouldn't opponents play much tighter, make first-down catches much more difficult, and contest all passes more tightly?  If Moore or Davis or EDS were getting 1-on-1 matchups with 3rd-corners on a regular basis, and proved they could win deep and make big plays, suddenly we're getting extra TD's and winning some close games; and suddenly safeties are respecting and helping and it's easier to run and get the short passes too.  So, I really believe it all kinda works together.  Anything good you can do vertically will help everything else in shorter ball-control.  Likewise if 1-on-1 corners are getting beat deep by EDS or Moore or Davis, for example, then maybe they're playing soft and well off, so you can complete the quick easy 8-yard pass underneath.  Or maybe they're starting to demand double coverage allowing Adams to get much less attention. 

so, I'm really hoping that somehow unexpectedly the effective vertical game will come back to Green Bay.  A lot of close games, an extra 7 points here or there can flip a lot of them.  Likewise against a great D like Vikings, to sequence six first downs may be harder than clicking on one or two big plays?   


Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2018, 01:38:16 PM »
Interesting, that was quick.  I wonder how much $$?  Can't imagine too much.  Don't think he's ever been used much as a target, right?  Basically a blocker who might leak out and catch one or two or three short passes? 

I wonder if that just makes it easy, and they keep all three vets?  Or if that might put Kendricks on the bubble?

I have thought those same things craig. Does your roster perception and the construction of it change if you put WR next to Jimmy Graham's name? All the hand-wringing by fans and the need to add a WR to replace the lose of Nelson may well be for no reason at all. When the Packers go to a 3 WR set, the 3 WR's will be Adams, Cobb and Graham. When that reality sets in for fans is their any need to sign a veteran WR? As for Kendricks, I have felt since season end that they may be looking to replace him, still not sure of the Packers thought process on that one. Backup TE's typically need to be heavy contributors on ST's, not an ideal position for 30 somethings in the NFL.

I joined this site at the end of May a year ago and in that time I have noticed a number of articles (atleast a dozen) pop-up on others sites about an idea/concept/out of the box thoughts that I had shared here, after I had posted them here. Just a coincidence? At first I thought maybe, but that is alot of just coincidences.  Usually 1 to 2 days later and some articles are much closer to word for word than others. I guess it is good to know that this site is still being used by others as a brainstroming tool. Just a today observation.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/corys-corner-jimmy-graham-is-now-the-perfect-no-3-wr-534

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2018, 02:36:35 PM »
Love how everyone seemingly writes off the new group of Packer receivers merely because of draft position.  OK look at the odds of a late round pick making an impact that's the argument.  Looking at EQ I see an extremely athletic and highly intelligent guy.  Had he been drafted in the 2nd round everyone would automatically anoint him as the next great Packer receiver.  But because he was drafted in the 6th he's trash.  See no reason why he shouldn't succeed in the NFL. 

I'm not expecting much from Valdez-Scantling or Equanimeous St.Brown because of the bad odds you refer to. There are commitment, attitude, and limited route-tree issues with St.Brown, that caused him to fall a long way below where his pure measurables+production suggested he would go. Guys fall for a reason, even if it is sometimes a bad one. Scantling also needs lots of work. The best odds to succeed lie with Moore (who also has a minor issue or two), who got pushed down this year due to the logjam of 2nd/3rd round WR talent available.

Also 'writing them (WRs) off', isn't quite the same as just accepting the odds of success are small. I would not have automatically anointed St.Brown as anything, if he were a 2nd round pick, I was too aware of the problems inherent in taking him - No green-and-gold glasses are obscuring my vision.
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Offline scoremore

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2018, 06:03:18 AM »
EQ's coaching staff threw him under the bus.  I watched his interview.  The kid loves football and wants to play in the NFL.  He is also extremely smart something that Aaron will appreciate.  He had no business falling as far as he did.  A lot of teams will regret that decision.  He was knew when ND changed the offense his production would suffer.  He was right.  It cost him millions so he was understandably upset.  Of the 3 receivers taken he is the most talented.  He has all the attributes you look for in a #1 receiver.  Telling you he is going to be good.  Hopefully he earns some playing time this year.  By year 3 he's going to be one of our best WR's.

Moore is more NFL ready and has the best chance of contributing this year.  I'll agree with that.  Scantllng has the measurables and the heart.  Kid of reminds me of DD.  Special teams is his ticket.  Davis better be working hard in the off season because this kid will be breathing down his neck. 

Can't expect much from rookie WR's.  Just the way it is.  Takes a few years to develop these guys.  I am high on this group.  Young and talented but they will need time.  I'll remind you our all time WR leader is DD.  A 7th round draft pick.  We'll just have to wait.  In a couple of years this post will be long forgotten.  First things first.   EQ and Scantling have to make the 53.  We have enough youth and talent at WR so I am crossing it off of the needs list for next years draft.


Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2018, 12:42:38 PM »
I'd rather be wrong than right on ESB (just to be clear), but all 32 teams passed on him in the first 200 picks, which is a lot of expert opinion to overturn.

ESB could prove them all wrong (it's been done before), but swimming against the tide is tough.
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Offline craig

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2018, 06:37:23 PM »
... There are commitment, attitude, and limited route-tree issues with St.Brown, that caused him to fall a long way below where his pure measurables+production suggested he would go. Guys fall for a reason, even if it is sometimes a bad one. ...

It remains a puzzle of what the reason was; how much is talent, versus commitment/attitude reasons?  A thing with well-coached, winning teams with a good team culture is that sometimes they are able to get talented guys to play to their abilities, and provide a culture and winning atmosphere where attitude issues don't come out. 

I'm kinda hoping that ESB went 6th round NOT because his talent is inadequate, but because his attitude was questioned.  I think a guy who might have a prima-donna sense-of-entitlement in college may realize there is nothing entitle in NFL and that he'll need to earn it?  Or phrased differently, perhaps the Packers were the beneficiaries of some negative attitude reports, which will enable them to end up with a smart legit-talent NFL guy who ends up not manifesting any attitude or commitment problems at all, at least during his rookie contract? 

The other thing I wonder about is how route-tree-sophisticated the 4th receiver (counting Graham among the first three) needs to be?  Eventually you'd love for more, but if he plays strictly wideout and strictly one side or another, would that be a showstopper for having some rookie function?  And if he was largely in there for deep routes, routes where you stop and turn around and come back to the ball, slants, and stop-and cut across, it might not be the most complete or sophisticated, but a guy might still be useful? 

Offline craig

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2018, 06:43:24 PM »
Also think that sometimes coaches don't appreciate smart guys who maybe **do** know a lot, or maybe think something college-level is dumb, or obvious and boring. 

But it's possible that the same smart guy might pick things up fast in NFL, and might have better respect if the coaching is smart?

I have no idea.  The new WR coach, Raih, looks 16 and kind of gushes like a teenage girl; so maybe guys won't respect hm.  But it's also well possible that Raih is a good coach who really knows football, will be plenty football smart, and that he's so positive that players will know he's for them and trying to help them get really good. 

I certainly don't imagine anybody is going to think Philbin is dumb.  So I'm hopeful that if ESB got down-drafted based on attitude issues, that those will NOT manifest, and that the Packers will end up taking advantage and getting a steal. 

Obviously I am an inveterate optimist.  Now is the time to hope! 


Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2018, 06:16:45 AM »
I will be pulling for ESB to make it as hard as anyone, it would be great if he overcomes whatever the concerns are that every team had about him during the draft process.

None of us know for sure why teams passed on him as often as they did, but no doubt it is related to something between the ears and not related to his play on the field. Before I retired I typically had 40+ employees and was often in the market of hiring college grads and problems with authority seem to be a common issue with many. That issue is not a switch that an individual can easily turnoff, that issue is usually deep-seated. Entitled is a word that was floating around next to his name often during the draft process. A player who refused to do things that the staff ask of him to do, on the field and in training.

Are any of these concerns legitimate? We don't know and only time will tell if the Packers got a steal or if another extremely talented athlete just doesn't have the mental makeup to succeed. The draft process is not an exact science and late round picks and UDFA's do sometimes emerge from those ranks to be quality players. Regradless of the red-flags he is given a fresh start in GB, I have my fingers crossed that he can reach his full potential. All is yet to be determined.   

Online ricky

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2018, 03:17:53 PM »
I will be pulling for ESB to make it as hard as anyone, it would be great if he overcomes whatever the concerns are that every team had about him during the draft process.

None of us know for sure why teams passed on him as often as they did, but no doubt it is related to something between the ears and not related to his play on the field. Before I retired I typically had 40+ employees and was often in the market of hiring college grads and problems with authority seem to be a common issue with many. That issue is not a switch that an individual can easily turnoff, that issue is usually deep-seated. Entitled is a word that was floating around next to his name often during the draft process. A player who refused to do things that the staff ask of him to do, on the field and in training.

Are any of these concerns legitimate? We don't know and only time will tell if the Packers got a steal or if another extremely talented athlete just doesn't have the mental makeup to succeed. The draft process is not an exact science and late round picks and UDFA's do sometimes emerge from those ranks to be quality players. Regradless of the red-flags he is given a fresh start in GB, I have my fingers crossed that he can reach his full potential. All is yet to be determined.   
[/quote

What he probably needs is a mentor, someone who can teach him how to be responsible, to be a professional, to tap into that potential and show him what it means to overcome the doubters. He needs someone like Donald Driver to take up the role that Cris Carter took with Randy Moss.
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Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2018, 07:57:22 PM »
If this is true I find it a bit of a odd signing.

Brian L Jones

 
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The #Packers have signed veteran offensive lineman Byron Bell who was with the #Cowboys last season. Bell started two games at left tackle last season, but he can also play left guard and right tackle.

Online ricky

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2018, 09:23:16 PM »
If this is true I find it a bit of a odd signing.

Brian L Jones

 
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The #Packers have signed veteran offensive lineman Byron Bell who was with the #Cowboys last season. Bell started two games at left tackle last season, but he can also play left guard and right tackle.

So, it could be that Taylor's recovery time from his ankle injury is behind schedule. Or it could be that Bulaga is behind schedule. And that Spriggs is still trying to get ready for prime time. And that instead of hoping that someone from the roster of hopefuls makes that "jump", they are going to be ready in case things don't work out for the hopefuls. Similar to the signing of the right guard last year. Bell is younger, and is a big guy (6'5", 340 pounds). We'll see what shakes out, but its apparent that Gutekunst is willing to make moves when he thinks it may help the team. There definitely is a "win now" vibe coming from his actions.
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Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2018, 06:01:28 AM »
It may very well be that there is new concern about Taylor's ankle and he may start the training camp on the PUP. Historically the Packers have had 16 or 17 OL on the 90 man roster to start training camp and as of right now they have 16 without counting Bell. If both Bulaga and Taylor cannot practice they would not have three full lines for rotation during drills. Bell is probably cheap, guessing league minimum deal, insurance to get them by until some regain their health.

The more interesting question to me is who is getting let go to make room for Bell? Just using how the Packers like to construct the 90 man roster in the past, a TE may be the one let go. Normally they carry 6 TE's into training camp and with the signing of Lewis they are now at 7. This is a real longshot, but could Kendricks be on his way out after the signing of Lewis? Is it possible a small trade with the Chargers is in the works after Hunter Henry's ACL injury? Yes longshots I know, but if Bell is truly signing with the Packers another transaction will need to accompany it.   

Offline craig

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2018, 08:05:42 AM »
Those thoughts make sense.  Agree, I assume Bell is a vet's minimum, will provide a camp body when other guys are sitting out all or some practices; and provides an experienced option if fill-ins are needed and the young guys don't step up. 

In addition to Bulaga and Taylor, Spriggs is still pretty limited in what he's allowed to do; he's not full-go even for OTA's with no run-blocking and no pads or real contact or anything.  So, while it's hopeful that he'll be fully ready given the remaining weeks until camp, it also seems possible that he too may be a variably limited actor.  Maybe not PUP, but maybe not a 100% every-day-every-drill guy either? 

Campen said that Spriggs looks bigger and stronger this spring.  I'm glad to hear that, because his lack of power has been one of his limitations, he seemed to get pushed back into the pocket pretty quickly and easily even on snaps when he didn't actually get flat-out beat.  Would be kinda cool if he turned into a good, capable player. 

Offline craig

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #73 on: May 30, 2018, 08:15:47 AM »
Maybe wrong thread, but Randall/Kizer trade remains among the most interesting and unexpected of the offseason.  Article with some comments from Philbin that are positive about him 
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/05/29/packers-young-qb-deshone-kizer/651795002/

I remain guardedly hopeful about him.  I've been *very* impressed with the couple of interviews with him that I've seen.  He was really composed and articulate.  And his comments about the trade and his new role have been very appropriate.  And he's had some positive comments about some of the coaching/teaching the Packers are giving him.  Seems like a smart guy with a very good arm and a good attitude toward learning and improving himself.   So I'm optimistic that he's going to be kind of a quick study in terms of picking things up, and that he'll have a good approach towards improving himself even if he doesn't expect to be playing Sunday to Sunday. 

Obviously having a strong arm, being smart and good-looking or giving a good, thoughtful interview doesn't at all mean that he can process a fast-moving NFL defense, or throw a ball accurately, so time will tell!  :)  But no new red flags thus far. 

Offline RT

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Re: Packers transactions
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2018, 08:46:19 AM »
The Green Bay Packers signed T/G Byron Bell and released T/G Jacob Alsadek.

And now we know the rest of the story.