August 14, 2018, 11:39:05 PM

Author Topic: OTA notes  (Read 5930 times)

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Offline RT

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2018, 10:52:10 AM »
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That's it for the Packers offseason program. Next time they're on the field is July 26.

Next up Training Camp.

Offline RT

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2018, 11:12:20 AM »
Final day tweets from Andy Herman.

JK Scott has the ability to be a big time weapon for GB. Time will tell but his approach and follow through are so consistent. He has fantastic hangtime and a huge leg. Punters are weapons too.

Jaire Alexander fields a kick and finds a crease and explodes. It’s a drill with a bunch of pat-a-caking but it was noticeable nonetheless.

First team offense:

Hundley
Adams, J. Williams, Ripper, Byrd, Yancey
Murphy-Patrick-Linsley-McCray-Spriggs

EQ, Kumerow, Ja’Mon Moore the next receivers in.

Aaron Jones now in at RB.

Biegel with a “sack” of Hundley.

A few plays already where Hundley not getting rid of the ball in rhythm and holding the ball too long.

Tim freakin Boyle hits J’Mon Moore on a post route for a td. Beautiful route. Beautiful throw.

Devante Mays showing off a quick cut. Huge camp coming up for him.

Nice run with great vision and a precise, well-timed cut by Jamaal Williams.

J’Mon Moore showing up early and often today. Really difficult td pass over Lenzy Pipkins in the back corner.

I can see what the team liked in Herb Waters last year. He’s looked good the 2 practices I’ve been to so far. Plays confident and has good agility and toughness.

Down 4, 1:06 on the clock 1 timeout. Kizer trying to lead a comeback.

Jermaine Whitehead almost w a pick on 2nd play. Prob should have had it.

Alexander with beautiful coverage on Yancey on play 3.

Montravius Adams with a “sack” on 3rd down. Think he split Spriggs/McCray.

Defense wins this round. Very rough period for Kizer ended with a checkdown on the last play that gave his team no chance. The clock runs out.

Same situation. Boyle now running the offense.

Boyle starts with a beautiful throw on a nice slant by MVS for a 1st down.

2nd play Boyle’s inaccuracy shows on a swing pass that missed badly. L#

3rd play a gorgeous throw on an intermediate out route to MVS.

Boyle ends it with another awesome throw this time on a post to Michael Clark for the TD. Clark beat Waters by a couple steps on the play. Boyle is really impressive so far today.

Jaire Alexander with fantastic coverage on Davante Adams in team. Ball came his way and Alexander had a better chance at it. Really nice work by the rook.

Gilbert prob could have had a sack on the next play but the play continues and Yancey drops a contested pass he should have had.

And Tim Boyle comes back to life a bit as he throws a pick to Raven Greene in the red zone.

False start by Alex Light earns him a spot on the sidelines.

Josh Jackson this time with great coverage on Tae. Mirrored him across the field and stuck with him the entire way.

A couple of undrafted guys, Connor Sheehy and Greer Martini combine for a nice run stop.

Next play EQ drops an easy pass over the middle.

Devante Mays with another nice run. He’s looked good today.

One player consistently standing out on defense today: Vince Biegel.

Not sure if Jason Spriggs reinjured something but I’ve seen him on one knee a couple times, could just be he’s not in game shape yet. He also has a bit of a limp he’s walking with.

J’Mon Moore with a smooth route to gain separation, pass is a bit high but Moore skys for it but the db recovers and knocks the pass out of Moore’s hands to end the team period.

And that’s it for practice today. A quick practice just over an hour. Some players who stood out:

J. Moore
J. Alexander
V. Biegel
M. Clark
T. Boyle
Montgomery
D. Mays
J. Jackson
R. Greene

Some players who struggled today:

Hundley
Kizer
EQ
Yancey
Spriggs

Offline craig

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2018, 01:19:25 PM »
Thanks much for the OTA notes, RT.  Really fun to read, much appreciated.  Yes, I know, I know, caution, caution, everything is different in pads, etc. , and young receivers always look better in OTA's when they aren't getting jammed and speared and stuff. 

Nice to have some good reviews on both Moore and MVS, and also Clark. 
Fun to have some positives on Biegel, too.  Man, it would be such a swing for us if he emerged as good player. 

Just one practice, but I found it interesting that Spriggs and McCray on right (where we'll presumably need two starters) and Murphy and Patrick on left (where we sure hope we don't need any new starters.)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 01:20:49 PM by craig »

Offline RT

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2018, 06:22:52 AM »
Anyone else notice J. Williams and Jones look like they have bulked up a little? Jones in the upper body and Williams kind of all over.

Not seeing the Jones upper body thing, but have seen several places talking about Jones increasing his lower body strength.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/14/packers-rb-aaron-jones-definitely-looks-bigger/

Offline craig

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2018, 07:00:49 AM »
Jones with a stronger base to anchor in pass pro could be nice.  Or to break a few tackles, or to be able to power through for a 2-yard gain when there really aren't any holds.  Thanks for links.  What really works can vary, but it's always kind of fun to see what management and trainer and player view as ways to improve themselves. 

Offline RT

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2018, 07:18:09 AM »
Thanks much for the OTA notes, RT.  Really fun to read, much appreciated.  Yes, I know, I know, caution, caution, everything is different in pads, etc. , and young receivers always look better in OTA's when they aren't getting jammed and speared and stuff. 

Nice to have some good reviews on both Moore and MVS, and also Clark. 
Fun to have some positives on Biegel, too.  Man, it would be such a swing for us if he emerged as good player. 

Just one practice, but I found it interesting that Spriggs and McCray on right (where we'll presumably need two starters) and Murphy and Patrick on left (where we sure hope we don't need any new starters.)

You are welcome craig. I'm like many on here and just trying to share as much information as possible so we can all draw as intelligent of conclusions as possible. The information is out there, it is up to each person to decide to educate themselves or remain ignorant.

I agree with you in that everything for now needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but I am very pleased with the overall makeup of the 90 man roster. Many have talked themselves into the Packers don't have this or that, but I don't see a weakness on this team. In the end I believe the biggest change/addition for this team is the installing of Pettine as DC. As the season go's on and the same players that were on the field for Capers and getting embarrassed are now making stops and winning for Pettine, the root of the problem will be very obvious. People will spin that a number of different ways, but the reality is that it all go's back to MM and his control of the coaching staff and his continued poor decision to keep Capers around.

That is all the past and the future is very bright for this team. Barring injuries, there is no excuse for failure. MM has played the corporate blame game well up to this point, but all of his excuses have been covered and he has painted himself into a corner. Win now or all failure points straight at MM. The rules of corporate politics, eventually the blamer runs out of people to blame and its time to put up or be put out.
In the words of Kevin Greene, "It is time".

Offline craig

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #81 on: June 15, 2018, 07:26:12 AM »
....Emanuel Byrd had three straight TDs in red zone period.   I think their is a fair chance that this guy sticks on the 53 and Kendricks is cut loose. Is their any chance of picking up a conditional 7th rounder from the Chargers for him now?
....This is not just a good day of practice against whoever. For those that have been paying attention, he has been doing these types of things since being a late add to training camp last season. The only thing slowing his chances last year was knowledge of the system. A year on the PS and a late season add to the 53 and he is much more aware then a year ago. In his one game of action in week 17 against the Lions he had 2 catches for 31 yards and showed again that he can perform what is ask of him. Kendrick disappointingly has only stolen money from the day he signed, the classic veteran wanting to just add to his bank account before riding off into the sunset.

RT, how do you really feel about men over 28?  :):)

1.  Hope Byrd impresses and wins position. 
2.  MM has already had Kendrick for a year.  So **IF** he's a lazy slacker ust trying to steal, I would hope MM isn't too dumb to notice.  I'm kind of going to assume that *IF* MM keeps Kendrick on the roster, it may reflect that coach does NOT perceive Kendrick as a slacker with bad motives just trying to steal. 
3.  Not sure it has to be Kendrick or Byrd.  Could keep both.
4.  Kendrick regardless, I totally hope that Byrd looks like a player and wins a job.  D+D team, I totally want to see young guy step up and win job.  D+D team, I totally want to see young guys develop into good players.  Hopefully Byrd has upside to be a good player and be something of a playmaking receiver, so I totally hope that upside isn't just summer-hopeful fan but is perceived as realistic by MM/Gute.  (We know Kendrick has very limited upside, so *if* it was to be one or the other and not both, I'd much prefer to dream/hope on the younger guy with the possible Buildican upside....)   
5.  Lewis, Kendrick, and Graham are old.  Having a young TE emerge would be so nice.  (And could also be like winning a free discretionary draft pick, rather than needing to burn one on TE.) 
6.  Byrd is really small and short for a TE.  But his size might perhaps be well suited for ST.
7.  Being short and small might seem ill-suited for blocking.  But sometimes shorter is better for leverage and "pad-level"; so while I've heard nothing favorable about Byrd's blocking, it's at least hypothetically possible that even at only 6'2", he may still become anti-awful as a blocker? 
8.  MM + Gute may prove dumb (as seems to be the usual presumption!)  But I'm hopeful that MM will prove wise in wanting a pass-catching TE.  So even if Byrd proves to be a crummy blocker, I'm still really interested in hi as a possibly good pass-receiver.  (Just as I'm hopeful Graham will be really useful to the offense as a pass-receiver, even if he stinks and has little interest/effort as a blocker.)  Clearly Lewis and Kendrick aren't much as receivers, plus Graham is old.  So **IF** Byrd can emerge as a good receiver, I think that's really desirable both long term (post-Graham) and also short term.  It's the NFL, so Graham might get hurt this year.  Plus I think that *IF* MM is going to use two-TE sets (which I expect to happen not infrequently), I get that having blocker/receiver Lewis/Graham tandem will be a thing, I still think that having receiver/receiver Graham/Byrd tandem might be really interesting as well.  Especially if Byrd could emerge  as variably anti-awful in the blocking role.  (He might stink for size/strength/aptitude/skill as blocker, but obviously as a young guy battling for any snaps he can get, he's going to give it whatever he can as a blocker and isn't going to lack for effort.) 

So I'm really hopeful that Byrd will really play well in camp, become a thing, win a spot on the roster, and become a good NFL TE for the Packers long-term and maybe short-term also. 

Love those optimistic hope underdog stories of summer! 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 07:32:32 AM by craig »

Offline craig

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2018, 08:02:21 AM »
....I don't see a weakness on this team. ... the reality is that it all go's back to MM and his control of the coaching staff and his continued poor decision to keep Capers around.

.... Barring injuries, there is no excuse for failure. MM has played the corporate blame game well up to this point, but all of his excuses have been covered and he has painted himself into a corner. Win now or all failure points straight at MM. The rules of corporate politics, eventually the blamer runs out of people to blame and its time to put up or be put out.....

Key words are "failure" and "barring injuries".  And "no excuses". 
1.  "Failure":  Good chance Packers go 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5, and then get knocked out in playoffs.  Critics will call that "failure", blame, and want MM put out.  Goal is SB, short of goal.
 Supporters will say we're lucky to have a coach that gets us into the playoffs, what a good steady hand we're blessed to have. 

2.  "Excuses":  I think there are already built-in excuses.  Pettine's new defense, still learning the defense.  Youth.  Look how young the secondary is?  Look at what a mixed up and blended o-line we've working with, Spriggs and Murphy and McCray are all inexperienced....?  TE's are just getting used to Rodgers.  Look how young and inexperienced the WR depth is....  There are plenty of pre-built excuses available, if wanted.... 

3.  "Barring injuries".  Bulaga's already hurt, Spriggs is a limp....   It's the NFL, there will be injuries, I guarantee that, and they will provide excuse.  Adams, Cobb, or Graham, what if any one of them gets hurt?  Bakthi, Taylor, Linsley, what if any one of them gets hurt?  Matthews or Perry, what if either of them gets hurt?  (And what are the odds there.....)  King, Jaire, or Johnson, what if any of them gets hurt?  Daniels or Clark, what if either of them gets hurt?   HaHa, Brice, Josh Jones, what if any of them gets hurt?  Aaron Rodgers, what if he gets hurt (again)?   It's the National Injury League, there will be injuries, that's a given.  Who, how many, and how badly, we don't know yet.  But in the National INjury League, every coach and GM can count on having injuries available as an excuse for falling short of Super Bowl! 

It's only in the Hope-Springs-Eternal summertime that we fans (and management) are dreaming without injuries. 

Offline RT

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2018, 08:16:58 AM »
....I don't see a weakness on this team. ... the reality is that it all go's back to MM and his control of the coaching staff and his continued poor decision to keep Capers around.

.... Barring injuries, there is no excuse for failure. MM has played the corporate blame game well up to this point, but all of his excuses have been covered and he has painted himself into a corner. Win now or all failure points straight at MM. The rules of corporate politics, eventually the blamer runs out of people to blame and its time to put up or be put out.....

Key words are "failure" and "barring injuries".  And "no excuses". 
1.  "Failure":  Good chance Packers go 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5, and then get knocked out in playoffs.  Critics will call that "failure", blame, and want MM put out.  Goal is SB, short of goal.
 Supporters will say we're lucky to have a coach that gets us into the playoffs, what a good steady hand we're blessed to have. 

2.  "Excuses":  I think there are already built-in excuses.  Pettine's new defense, still learning the defense.  Youth.  Look how young the secondary is?  Look at what a mixed up and blended o-line we've working with, Spriggs and Murphy and McCray are all inexperienced....?  TE's are just getting used to Rodgers.  Look how young and inexperienced the WR depth is....  There are plenty of pre-built excuses available, if wanted.... 

3.  "Barring injuries".  Bulaga's already hurt, Spriggs is a limp....   It's the NFL, there will be injuries, I guarantee that, and they will provide excuse.  Adams, Cobb, or Graham, what if any one of them gets hurt?  Bakthi, Taylor, Linsley, what if any one of them gets hurt?  Matthews or Perry, what if either of them gets hurt?  (And what are the odds there.....)  King, Jaire, or Johnson, what if any of them gets hurt?  Daniels or Clark, what if either of them gets hurt?   HaHa, Brice, Josh Jones, what if any of them gets hurt?  Aaron Rodgers, what if he gets hurt (again)?   It's the National Injury League, there will be injuries, that's a given.  Who, how many, and how badly, we don't know yet.  But in the National INjury League, every coach and GM can count on having injuries available as an excuse for falling short of Super Bowl! 

It's only in the Hope-Springs-Eternal summertime that we fans (and management) are dreaming without injuries.

Can't help you here. When people predetermine why they are going to fail, they are going to fail.

Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.  Joe Gibbs

Offline craig

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2018, 08:18:32 AM »
Have seen some vaguely positive comments about Biegel, and MOss have been repeatedly positive that he's working hard and working really hard!  Still remains to be seen whether his being a hard-working max-effort guy will turn into effective play.  But man it would be huge if he was able to emerge as a good player, set the edge, get some TFL, get a few sacks, get some pressures.  Opportunity is sure there for him to get some snaps.  HOpe he makes great use of them and has a huge step up.  Really important 2nd-year-jump candidate. 

Offline craig

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2018, 08:25:59 AM »
...When people predetermine why they are going to fail, they are going to fail.   Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.  Joe Gibbs

Sure, that's beautiful.  Health is a thing, though, even if that makes me a "loser" to acknowledge it!  :):)  And specific injuries tend not to be "predetermined".  We have no idea today who's going to be healthy and hurt during the season and postseason.  If only a team knew where the injuries were going to strike ahead of time.......!

Offline RT

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2018, 08:40:02 AM »
....Emanuel Byrd had three straight TDs in red zone period.   I think their is a fair chance that this guy sticks on the 53 and Kendricks is cut loose. Is their any chance of picking up a conditional 7th rounder from the Chargers for him now?
....This is not just a good day of practice against whoever. For those that have been paying attention, he has been doing these types of things since being a late add to training camp last season. The only thing slowing his chances last year was knowledge of the system. A year on the PS and a late season add to the 53 and he is much more aware then a year ago. In his one game of action in week 17 against the Lions he had 2 catches for 31 yards and showed again that he can perform what is ask of him. Kendrick disappointingly has only stolen money from the day he signed, the classic veteran wanting to just add to his bank account before riding off into the sunset.
RT, how do you really feel about men over 28?  :):)

1.  Hope Byrd impresses and wins position. 
2.  MM has already had Kendrick for a year.  So **IF** he's a lazy slacker ust trying to steal, I would hope MM isn't too dumb to notice.  I'm kind of going to assume that *IF* MM keeps Kendrick on the roster, it may reflect that coach does NOT perceive Kendrick as a slacker with bad motives just trying to steal. 
3.  Not sure it has to be Kendrick or Byrd.  Could keep both.
4.  Kendrick regardless, I totally hope that Byrd looks like a player and wins a job.  D+D team, I totally want to see young guy step up and win job.  D+D team, I totally want to see young guys develop into good players.  Hopefully Byrd has upside to be a good player and be something of a playmaking receiver, so I totally hope that upside isn't just summer-hopeful fan but is perceived as realistic by MM/Gute.  (We know Kendrick has very limited upside, so *if* it was to be one or the other and not both, I'd much prefer to dream/hope on the younger guy with the possible Buildican upside....)   
5.  Lewis, Kendrick, and Graham are old.  Having a young TE emerge would be so nice.  (And could also be like winning a free discretionary draft pick, rather than needing to burn one on TE.) 
6.  Byrd is really small and short for a TE.  But his size might perhaps be well suited for ST.
7.  Being short and small might seem ill-suited for blocking.  But sometimes shorter is better for leverage and "pad-level"; so while I've heard nothing favorable about Byrd's blocking, it's at least hypothetically possible that even at only 6'2", he may still become anti-awful as a blocker? 
8.  MM + Gute may prove dumb (as seems to be the usual presumption!)  But I'm hopeful that MM will prove wise in wanting a pass-catching TE.  So even if Byrd proves to be a crummy blocker, I'm still really interested in hi as a possibly good pass-receiver.  (Just as I'm hopeful Graham will be really useful to the offense as a pass-receiver, even if he stinks and has little interest/effort as a blocker.)  Clearly Lewis and Kendrick aren't much as receivers, plus Graham is old.  So **IF** Byrd can emerge as a good receiver, I think that's really desirable both long term (post-Graham) and also short term.  It's the NFL, so Graham might get hurt this year.  Plus I think that *IF* MM is going to use two-TE sets (which I expect to happen not infrequently), I get that having blocker/receiver Lewis/Graham tandem will be a thing, I still think that having receiver/receiver Graham/Byrd tandem might be really interesting as well.  Especially if Byrd could emerge  as variably anti-awful in the blocking role.  (He might stink for size/strength/aptitude/skill as blocker, but obviously as a young guy battling for any snaps he can get, he's going to give it whatever he can as a blocker and isn't going to lack for effort.) 

So I'm really hopeful that Byrd will really play well in camp, become a thing, win a spot on the roster, and become a good NFL TE for the Packers long-term and maybe short-term also. 

Love those optimistic hope underdog stories of summer!

Not an age thing at all craig. It is a motivation thing or in this case a lack of motivation thing. When signing FA's, they should arrive with the motivation to show the last team they played for that they made a mistake not keeping them on their team. Not arrive with the appoach to closeout career with a few more paychecks. That is why Woodson and Peppers were good signings and why Wilkerson should also be a good signing. It's not that hard.

As for point number 8. I do not think MM or Gute are dumb, but I do believe that Gute's hands are tied on some things and is forced into others. I believe he could be a very good GM if he was really a complete GM, but he is not. As I have pointed out from the day he was hired, MM is calling a lot of his own shots and Gutes is powerless. That is a flawed front office structure.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000937399/article/packers-gm-surprised-to-not-have-authority-over-coach

Offline Twain

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2018, 03:37:11 PM »

As for point number 8. I do not think MM or Gute are dumb, but I do believe that Gute's hands are tied on some things and is forced into others. I believe he could be a very good GM if he was really a complete GM, but he is not. As I have pointed out from the day he was hired, MM is calling a lot of his own shots and Gutes is powerless. That is a flawed front office structure.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000937399/article/packers-gm-surprised-to-not-have-authority-over-coach

I am curious RT- why do you think Murphy keeping the authority to hire and fire the head coach is a flawed front office structure?
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Offline RT

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2018, 07:26:24 AM »

As for point number 8. I do not think MM or Gute are dumb, but I do believe that Gute's hands are tied on some things and is forced into others. I believe he could be a very good GM if he was really a complete GM, but he is not. As I have pointed out from the day he was hired, MM is calling a lot of his own shots and Gutes is powerless. That is a flawed front office structure.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000937399/article/packers-gm-surprised-to-not-have-authority-over-coach

I am curious RT- why do you think Murphy keeping the authority to hire and fire the head coach is a flawed front office structure?

The chain of command structure is a tried and proven method of operations and is the best way to ensure accountability at each level. Allows for people to 'just do their damn job'.

This matrix type structure (a hybrid of divisional and functional structures) that Murphy has setup is flawed because it is a breeding grounds for internal power struggles. Most areas of the team now will have a dual management - coach or GM whats to sign player X, but Director of football operations says the contract demands are too high. Internal power struggle. Cutdown comes and coach wants to keep player X because he can help on a few plays right now and GM wants to keep player Y because he shows traits of being a very good player a year or two down the line. Internal power struggle. I could go on with these examples all day long, but the point is that it is an unneeded waste of time and mental energy in every department.

People that don't work in this type of environment or never have will think that is not a big deal, but it is a big deal. They are in a very competitive business and they are very competitive people who think they are alway right and feel the need to always win. They are dominate A personalities, no one there is saying 'you can have the last donut', they are armwrestling for it. In everyone of these internal power struggles there will be a winner and a loser and by nature of the beast the loser is going to expend even more time and energy to his point of view the next time their is a differing of opinions. All this is counterproductive and a waste of time that should be put to use in the common goal of trying to win a SB.   

A matrix structure will never stand the test of time in that environment because of the tension caused for the internal power struggles will in time erode away at the working relationships of the parties envolved.   

Offline ricky

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Re: OTA notes
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2018, 08:54:26 AM »
Posted a similar question earlier. Who sets the final roster? It used to be TT, though I'm sure MM had significant input. But it was TT's job to get the players, and MM's and the staff's to coach them up and utilize them correctly. We'll see how this works, but I do agree RT, there needs to be a clear management structure. The reason given was there were "silos" within the organization (read: kingdoms) that weren't always in synch with each other. This new structure was supposed to streamline the decision making process, and make for more cooeration/comminication. Though it could well become, as you said, become a series of power struggles. And with MM's known penchant for being stubborn... We'll see how this works out. Stay tuned when training camp begins. Especially along the right side of the O-line.
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