Did the Pete Carroll call mark the end?

[Gregg]

That call for a pass at the end of the SB when you had Lynch was widely heralded as one of the worst play calls in sports history.

But I also wonder if it was the end of the Hawks as we know it.

The next year they went 10-5-1 and then last year they were 9-7 and in fact it looks like the team is being step by step taken down.

They thrived on defense but this past year they lost two good linemen in Avril and Bennett.  Plus they also lost CB Sherman.  And Chancellor has been hurt.

You just think that maybe that call was even bigger than you thought at the time.

[ricky]

No, what happened was that Wilson got past his rookie contract, and they had to pay him. The defensive stalwarts also wanted to get paid a lot more. And the team just got a bit longer in the tooth. Schneider hit on some later round picks (Chancellor, Wilson, Sherman, for example), but that is not sustainable. Depending on later round picks to become Pro Bowlers is wishful thinking. It can happen on occasionally, and the Seahawks simply got lucky their later round picks became so impactful. Add in the decline of their OL, and Lynch, a key part of their offense leaving, and you have decline.

[OneTwoSixFive]

Perhaps the Seahawks tactic of trading their first round pick to move down FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS, is not panning out well for them.

I do like the idea of doing that, you can get a good return moving down in round one, but you have to hit on those lower picks and they haven't done a good job of that. The Packers may have done better trading down by getting an extra round one pick in 2019, but it will take a while to see how well that plays out.

[marklawrence]

I don't know what really happened, but the reported locker room friction esp. between Wilson and Sherman started shortly after that call.

[The GM]

It was a combination of things. 

1.  After that call, Lynch's play and playing time started going downhill.  He was a huge part of their ball control offense.    Wilson no longer could hand off the Lynch, make 2-3 key throws a game and rely on their defense to win.

2. As mentioned, I think some members of the defense blamed the offense for that play and costing them another Super Bowl.   I also think some members of the defense  resented Russell Wilson and the lack of blame he received from the media for the throw. 

3.  Contracts.  This defense has basically been turned over.  You still have Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner and a couple others but for the most part this defense has had major changes going into next year.     

4. The OL is weak.  They had the worst OL in football last year.  Wilson was running for his life before he can even set up in the pocket.  Believe me, Jimmy Graham did NOTHING to solve that. 

This team is the perfect example of of how short your window can be to being a major Super Bowl contender.  This was a very young team after their first SB, and people were talking dynasty.  A few years later, they are under a rebuild.   

I think Wilson is overrated.   He came into the perfect situation in Seattle.  The top defense in the NFL, and great running back, and a home field advantage like no other in football.   Hes a good and exciting player to watch, but can carry the load with mediocre talent around him?   He's getting paid a lot of money, and Im not sure he's going to justify it in the next few seasons.  Fun to watch though.   JMO     

[Twain]

I think it is humorous that even at the start of last year, following the signing of Richardson, the Seattle fans thought they had the best defense ever and were going to dominate the season.

The NFL can be very unpredictable, and windows can close quickly.

I think Ricky and the GM are both right.  A lot of factors figure in to the decline.  Schneider/Carroll hit on a lot of players early in their tenure, but not so much lately.  I think things like that are more important than the bitter loss in that superbowl.

[ricky]

Besides, lest we forget, the Packers had one of the NFL's worst meltdowns in the waning minutes of the championship game that put Seattle in the SB. The next year, the Packers were back, one game away from the SB, before getting soundly beaten by Atlanta. Which went on to have the worst meltdown in SB history. And probably the worst meltdown in NFL history.

[ricky]

We may well have to revisit and re-think the idea that "The Call" may have caused the downfall of the Seahawks. Cliff Avril has now come out and said that call turned a lot of players against Carroll. So, kudos Gregg on calling this one.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/26/cliff-avril-seahawks-started-questioning-pete-carroll-after-super-bowl-interception/

[Gregg]

Thanks Ricky.

Interesting what he says about it.  After that the players did not buy into what Carroll was selling them.

Can you really blame them?

[The GM]

Thanks Ricky.

Interesting what he says about it.  After that the players did not buy into what Carroll was selling them.

Can you really blame them?

Carroll is a rah rah guy.  After a few years he and most coaches like him start to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher.   You can buy some time if you are an excellent X's and O's guy, but when guys like Bennett and Sherman start thinking they run the place, it shows and its time to cut bait.   IMO, Seattle is doing the right thing, it will be hard to replace those guys and several others but the window was beginning to close, and new moldable talent is needed.       

[ricky]

Now, the question switches to the Northeast, and in particular the Patriots. There seems to be some unrest between Belichick and two of his best players, Brady and Gronkowski. There were a lot of players, fans and commentators who were surprised, then puzzled as to why Malcom Butler sat on the bench for the entire SB, minus one play. Meanwhile, the diminished Pats secondary made Foles look like the second coming of Johnny Unitas. Could there be some backlash because players are getting tired of Belichick's/Patriots habit of underpaying players, trading or cutting those who are getting "too expenive"? After all, there is something to be said for loyalty, and rewarding those who work hard to imrove their performance.

Maybe this is overblown, but Brady is the only QB who is not presently in the OTA's. Sure, they're voluntary, but when you're the face of the team, and the anointed "GOAT", doesn't that mean you should be leading by example? We'll see what transpires, but it well could be the beginning of an internal rebellion.