November 13, 2018, 08:51:05 AM

Author Topic: Back up OLB's  (Read 676 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dannobanano

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4630
  • Karma: +4/-0
Back up OLB's
« on: July 13, 2018, 05:11:02 PM »
JMHO.....................but I think Kyler Fackrell's days are numbered in Green Bay.

Vince Biegel is the one many of us have had our eye's on (and hope's up for)..............
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/12/packers-lb-vince-biegel-adds-weight-ahead-of-second-nfl-season/
https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/vince-biegel-senses-urgency-to-bring-championship-caliber-of-play-to-packers-defense-444

Reggie Gilbert flashed some ability late last season (why wasn't he brought up earlier?)...............
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/11/with-training-camp-looming-reggie-gilbert-set-to-be-key-cog-in-packers-pass-rushing-machine/

Chris Odom was the forgotten man (but not by me), he my sleeper of the group..............
https://www.themountaineer.com/sports/national/a-forgotten-man-last-season-packers-linebacker-chris-odom-looks/article_623802c2-3c89-57a8-9a2b-5646740ded85.html

The Packers waited until the 7th round (Kendall Donnerson) to draft an EDGE type player.

Fackrell is just too much of a "finesse" player to fit anywhere in Pettine's defense. He's a run/chase LB, and that won't work in the new defense.

The only question I have is will the Packers keep 5, or 6, OLB's on the 53 man roster?

If it's 6, the Donnerson get's a chance to shine on ST's and time to develop. If it's only 5, then the Packers will likely hope Donnerson clears waivers so they can stash him on the PS.

To coin a phrase from "John McClain/Die Hard"..........."The monkey in the wrench" here is the WI media wishing out loud for the Packers to make a call to Connor Barwin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEOVNmSR7_c

Tick Tock.............13 days!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 05:14:37 PM by dannobanano »

Offline OneTwoSixFive

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Back up OLB's
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 01:54:38 AM »
I would hesitate to nix any defensive guy before seeing them in a Pettine-designed system.

Guys on the team like him, Odom, Spriggs, Mays (yeah I know the last two are on offense) have, in boxing terms, a 'punchers chance' of winning.
(ricky) "Personally, I'm putting this in a box, driving a stake through its heart, firing a silver bullet into its (empty) head, nailing it shut, loading it into a rocket and firing it into the sun. "

(Pink Floyd) "Set the controls for the heart of the sun"

Offline craig

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3544
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Back up OLB's
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2018, 07:11:49 PM »
Thanks for thread and links, danno.  We're a D+D program, it would be really cool if some of these guys  D'd into being good NFL players.  The fact that the Packers haven't made any OLB depth-building moves thus far may suggest that they are fairly hopeful. 

I'm pretty optimistic that Gilbert is ready to play OK.  He's big enough to handle run game, too, as is Odom.  But Gilbert still looks reasonably quick and active, even if those guys are on the 260+ side. 

In reviewing some of the stories, it's interesting how transitioning from 4-3 to 3-4 is portrayed as being pretty challenging, for both Gilbert and Odom.  I'm really hopeful that all three of those guys (Gilbert, Biegel, and Odom) will look professional in camp and in their snaps.  I'd love to have all three look like good NFL guys, but have the #5 guy still get little opportunity because Clay and Perry stay healthy, and Gilbert and Biegel both play well in their rotations, such that Odom can look great in practice but still end up getting blocked. 

I'd love to have an explosive lightning quick rusher, but not sure we've got any such.  So, I kinda like the idea of the 260's guys (Gilbert and Odom) who have some power and strength, and can hold up well in run. 

Don't think Donnerson is a factor at all, for 2017 roster.  Think he's fighting for a PS spot, and to get a redshirt year to figure out the league and learn who an NFL OLB needs to do.  Was he a true OLB in college, or like Gilbert and Odom another one who was a DE in college? 

Fackrell was a high-use ST guy.  Think he'll have a shot to compete for one of the ST spots.  Hopefully they'll have enough other guys looking good for ST, and they'll be able to use roster spot for somebody with more from-scrimmage potential (regardless of from which position group).  But ST is a thing coaches value, and he's got some scrimmage experience too; plus he might perhaps be a better fit in a new system; plus he might just be a little more improved and more confident.  So while I hope somebody younger and with more potential wins a job, I wouldn't at all rule out Fackrell making it again as a ST guy.

Offline Twain

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3167
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Back up OLB's
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2018, 11:52:02 AM »

Fackrell is just too much of a "finesse" player to fit anywhere in Pettine's defense. He's a run/chase LB, and that won't work in the new defense.


What actually is Pettine's defense?

I don't think we know yet.
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline Donzo

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
  • Karma: +5/-3
  • Living the Dream
Re: Back up OLB's
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 09:04:59 AM »
JMHO.....................but I think Kyler Fackrell's days are numbered in Green Bay.

Fackrell is just too much of a "finesse" player to fit anywhere in Pettine's defense. He's a run/chase LB, and that won't work in the new defense.


Interesting, I've been talking about Fackrell on few fronts this morning. I have time for one more convo.

How does Fackrell's play the last seven games of 2017 not translate to the 2018 Packers? How much more physical is Biegel, Gilbert and Donnerson than Frackell? And, how does Barwin and Fackrell's stats compare from 2018?... TY, Donzo

I've posted some other stuff about Fackrell in some other places today, I'll bring it over tonight. Some real real dialog about him would be interesting... For whatever reason, a lot of people are ignoring how well he's played when healthy. He was a beast in preason and the first four games of his rookie seaon in 2016.

Offline dannobanano

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4630
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Back up OLB's
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 02:23:36 PM »
By finesse, I meant he doesn't play strong/physical. IMO, he's more of a 4-3 weakside "Will" linebacker. He's a run/chase and coverage type LB. He is a fairly reliable tackler, but he has always lacked physicality/strength (and still does) to take on NFL linemen. His best assets are his length/speed and tackling ability which has served him well on special teams.

I've read that Pettine's defenses tend to play fast and physical.

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/43369/rex-ryan-on-packers-new-defensive-boss-mike-pettine-hell-be-best-coordinator-in-league
Quote
Ryan said. “This guy is going to give you the gamut. We have a philosophy, and Mike has it, it’s a 'KILL' philosophy -- keep it likable and learnable -- and that’s what we do, and that team is going to play fast and play physical, and I can’t wait to watch them.”

As of right now, Fackrell is the smallest (245 #'s) and the tallest (6'5") of all the backup LB's. As they like to say about OL, "does he have sand in his pants?", and "No" he doesn't. Biegel heard the same about himself last year.........."he needed to get bigger/stronger"............and he went out and did that. He is reportedly around 255-256 #'s. Gilbert is 6'3"/261 #'s, and Chris Odom is 6'4"/262 #'s. They are all bigger and stronger at this point than Fackrell.

Donnerson is likely a PS candidate, but with his size (6'3"/250) and speed (4.48) he could end up as a special teams demon and replace Fackrells role on those units. Not saying he will, just something to watch.

Both Gilbert and Odom are converted DE's from 4-3 college programs, and since Pettine's defense will flip back and forth between 3-4 & 4-3, these two players may have an advantage over Biegel and Fackrell in that regard. Biegel is also a player who has a very high football IQ and plays with great intensity. I haven't always seen "intensity" coming from Fackrell.

In this piece, the writer thinks it's too soon to send Fackrell packing. But he also thinks that Fackrell and Biegel will be the primary backups behind Matthews and Perry. He never even mentions Gilbert and Odom (despite what MM had to say about Gilbert during OTA's)

https://dairylandexpress.com/2018/05/22/green-bay-packers-why-its-too-soon-to-give-up-on-kyler-fackrell/

Quote
NFL.com vouched highly for Fackrell on his pre-draft profile:
“When it comes to the length and athleticism teams will look for off the edge, Fackrell will be one of the poster boys. His field versatility, coverage talent and potential as a pass rusher could make him one of the fastest rising prospects in this draft and a future contender for a Pro Bowl nod.”

Now a two-year veteran who has had an underwhelming impact on the team, some believe it’s time to move on from Fackrell. However, if this year’s draft is any indication, it’s not time to write him off just yet.
...............
Fackrell’s place on the roster is a back-up in the base defense. Whether it’s a 3-4 or 4-3 look in Mike Pettine’s system, he will remain a tweener on the edge.
Coming out of college, his concerning weaknesses were hand usage and play strength. Two traits he still hasn’t been able to combat.
As a rookie, Fackrell failed to play well enough to see much of the field. His limited arsenal of pass-rushing moves and lack of strength limited him to 161 snaps despite playing in every game. Reports even surfaced during training camp of him getting embarrassed during team drills.
The success he found in college using his speed and agility wasn’t translating.
..............
He and Vince Biegel are the main back-ups behind Clay Matthews and Nick Perry who are no strangers to the injury report.

IMO (and I am JAG), Fackrell will get his chances in TC/Pre-season to prove to Pettine he has a place in this new defense. I just think he is a better fit for teams that run a full time 4-3 defense as a "Will" LB. Maybe he will prove me wrong, and if he does....................."Good on ya Mate!"

Barwin is an outlier at this point. I only mentioned him because the media is fawning about the Packers needing to sign him. But to respond to that, Barwin has a body of work that Fackrell will never compare to, and even at 31 yrs old, and with his experience, he offers more than Fackrell could/would.

Throwing in one more that I just found............

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/5-guys-that-have-to-be-good-vince-biegel-101
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 02:52:45 PM by dannobanano »

Offline Donzo

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
  • Karma: +5/-3
  • Living the Dream
Re: Back up OLB's
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 06:50:54 PM »
Excellent post.

You can't ignore Fackrell's weigh gain though. You mentioned Biegel getting bigger, so has Fackrell. That listed weight of 245lbs was from two years ago. From what I understand, he actually dipped under 240lbs by the end of 2016. He came in around 255lbs last year and supposedly was at 260lbs this spring. We'll see...

From the Ravens game on lat year, Fackrell was much more physical. He had big games against the Ravens, Bucs and Vickings to end the season. That's the Fackrell I'm looking to see in camp... I'll say this, if he has another camp like last year, he'll be an easy cut.

For Barwin, his body of work is meaningless. The 28 yr old All Pro Barwin isn't walking through the door, it's gonna be the that guy who'll be 32 this year and was no more productive, per snap, than Fackrell in 2017... Give me the soon to be 27 yr old Fackrell.