December 15, 2018, 11:59:07 PM

Author Topic: This just in: the pack still sucks  (Read 1305 times)

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Online marklawrence

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Offline dannobanano

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2018, 07:11:19 PM »
Gosh!
Where to start?

This guy is a real micro-mind!

#1. He doesn't acknowledge the existence of Cobb or Marcedes Lewis, who will both get their fair share of targets and scoring chances. Why? Because Graham and Davante are also on the field. I understand the injury thing, but it's not like the other "elite" teams he mentions can't develop injury-itis as well.

#2. He doesn't even hint at a Packers running game. Really? While the Packers don't have a Fournette, Gurley, or Bell........the trio of Monty, J-Will, and AJ will more than keep teams from sitting back on the pass. Bringing in Lewis, the best blocking TE in the NFL, could make the Packers running game more than legit.

#3. So the backup CB's to King, Alexander, and Jackson will be T-Will and Quinten Rollins? Rollins? Seriously? This disqualifies him as any kind of credible source at all. He looked at the Packers roster and which CB's had the most seniority, and guess what? Rollins has been on the roster longer than any of the other CB's, never mind that T-Will and House have longer previous tenures in G&G.

Total "Darts Blindfolded" piece. Reading that was 30 seconds of my live wasted and I'll never get it back. At least it wasn't as long as War and Peace.  facepalm)

Offline scoremore

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2018, 07:15:55 PM »
Read the article.  Sounds about right to me.  They don't suck but aren't a championship caliber team.  They are too young at CB and WR.  Every year I believe the Packers will win the Superbowl.  Tempered expectations this year.  Wildcard win and loss in the divisional round sounds about right.  Also agree with the author if the Packers stay healthy for a change they could be in the conversation.  Well when was the last year the Packers were healthy?

Still excited for the season though.  The defense should be improved with the Pettine and help in the secondary.  The offense should be fairly decent but the lack of experience at WR will hurt us.  Still want to see if Aaron comes back the same. We'll see how the season plays out.  Maybe the Packers stay healthy and teams like Philly, Minny, and LA get beat up for a change.  NFC is very tough this year.   

Ughhh have the TV on just saw Gronk hawking Tide Pods.  Gotta be kidding me.  Anyway it's hard to win a Superbowl no matter how good you are.  Pack is going off at 14/1.  Vegas odds 6th best out of 32.  Not bad.  4th best in the NFC. 

Online marklawrence

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Offline ricky

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 04:19:23 AM »
Can the Packers win the SB? Absolutely. All they have to do is get hot at the right time, get some breaks when needed, and they'll go all the way. Could they come up short? Absolutely. A couple of key injuries; players who are expected to make that "jump" stumble instead; the defense or offense- or both- underperforming. So, which will it be? Boom or disappointment? No one knows. The final rosters haven't been set. We have no idea how well Rodgers will connect with Graham, or whether Cobb will rebound with a really good year. Will Pettine's defense be able to put consistent pressure on the QB? If so, that makes the  DB's that much more effective. Will the addition of Tramon Williams help stabilize the defense? Will Scott (punter) become a modern age Ray Guy? Will the return of Philbin help boos the offense?

There are more questions than answers. So, the teams GB faces played very well last year. So what? Each year is different. The Jaguars took a big step, and SF won their last five games after getting Garoppolo. But this year teams will have a lot of film to strategize ways to neutralize Jimmy G. NE seems to be having some problems wth its defense, and lost their DC to Detroit. Will Cousins be the answer in Minny, or will he again put up good stats but underperform in the win column again? And this doesn't even consider the inevitable injuries that will hamper players, or end their seasons.

As Bette Davis put it so well, "Fasten your seatbelts, we're in for a bumpy ride." And I intend to enjoy every minute of it, through agony and ecstasy, until the final whistle of the final game.
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Offline Twain

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 10:31:46 AM »
The author of the original piece is relying on the simple fact that for any team, a prediction of not winning the super bowl is much more likely to be right than wrong.

The big point of the article is that injuries have a large role in determining a team's outcome for the season.

Hopefully we are the ones who don't lose the key players this year, and the Vikings, Eagles, and Rams get their chance to struggle with key loses.
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline ricky

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2018, 12:34:00 PM »
The author of the original piece is relying on the simple fact that for any team, a prediction of not winning the super bowl is much more likely to be right than wrong.

The big point of the article is that injuries have a large role in determining a team's outcome for the season.

Hopefully we are the ones who don't lose the key players this year, and the Vikings, Eagles, and Rams get their chance to struggle with key loses.

When the Packers won it all in 2010, they had about 20 guys on IR. When they lost to the Seahawks in 2014, they were extremely healthy. Get hot at the right time and win it all. Cool off, lose.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Online craig

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2018, 02:01:58 PM »
I have no argument with the article.  Rodgers is special enough to give the Packers a chance to be good and get into the playoffs.  But there are other teams that have a lot more talent and, on paper, should be better.  And who have have QB's who are good, too, even if we don't think anybody is quite as good as Rodgers. 

I agree with the author: the Packers don't seem to me to be one of the top one or two teams in the NFC.  To me they'd seem to be more in the 4-6 area than 1-2 area. 

Fortunately, football is a crazy and unpredictable game. 
1.  The author has a right to his opinion, and so do I, and so do you.  So, maybe the author and I are way wrong.  Hopefully so. 
2.  Even if we're right (now), the best team doesn't always win.
3.  Even if we're right (now), it's the National Injury League.  Teams that really are and should be better (now) might be demolished by injuries come January.  A superior team can fall below a team that isn't as good now. 
4.  It's sports, so who knows.  Maybe against all the odds, ESB and Allison and Davis are going to emerge as stunningly good receivers.  Maybe Bulaga's miracle recovery will have him stout and starting on opening day and every game thereafter.  Maybe Jones and Jaire will be the greatest pair of rookie corners in the history of the NFL.  Often teams that end up in the SB have things unlikely-but-not-impossible work out well for them, maybe this could the Packers lucky year. 


Offline Hands

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2018, 06:24:37 AM »
Yes to both articles. That's the point of building a team...you have to have all the components in place and have some luck. Does Green Bay have all the componenets? Yes they do...Does Green Bay have enough componenets to survive an injury to a major player? I would say yes except for two positions-Rodgers (obvious) and the next spot is Lewis/Graham. Yes I said Mercedes Lewis or Graham are critical guys who's injury will really hamper the chances of Green Bay going to the SB.
Rational thinking, they have good depth everywhere but in two critical areas-QB and TEs. If either Graham or Lewis get hurt, there are no replacements on the roster. Philbin will make sure the offense goes through that TE spot. Those guys are critical to the march to the SB.
So yes the Packers can pick up number 14, but they need luck.
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Offline Twain

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2018, 06:49:02 AM »

When the Packers won it all in 2010, they had about 20 guys on IR. When they lost to the Seahawks in 2014, they were extremely healthy. Get hot at the right time and win it all. Cool off, lose.

You really have to look at which players- those 20 didn't include Rodgers, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Collins, T Williams.  They didn't lose Woodson until they had a lead in the Superbowl.  They lost guys like Zombo, an aging Driver who had a replacement with experience, and aging Taucher that had a highly thought of first round pick to replace him.

That is why I referenced "Key" players in the comment- A team won't get hot if their key players are gone.
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline Twain

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2018, 06:51:58 AM »
Yes to both articles. That's the point of building a team...you have to have all the components in place and have some luck. Does Green Bay have all the componenets? Yes they do...Does Green Bay have enough componenets to survive an injury to a major player? I would say yes except for two positions-Rodgers (obvious) and the next spot is Lewis/Graham. Yes I said Mercedes Lewis or Graham are critical guys who's injury will really hamper the chances of Green Bay going to the SB.
Rational thinking, they have good depth everywhere but in two critical areas-QB and TEs. If either Graham or Lewis get hurt, there are no replacements on the roster. Philbin will make sure the offense goes through that TE spot. Those guys are critical to the march to the SB.
So yes the Packers can pick up number 14, but they need luck.

I would add that if Adams and Cobb get injuries like they did in 2015, the Packers most likely have a huge problem.  Maybe not, but most likely.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:52:41 AM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Online craig

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2018, 07:45:38 PM »
Not sure losing Lewis would be the end of the world. 

But agree Rodgers, Adams, Cobb, Graham would all be tough. 
Think Bakhti would be really hard to replace. 
Not sure, but perhaps Linsley too. 
Clark and Daniels. 
Matthews.
Also unsure how resilient the secondary will be to injuries. 

HOping for the best. 

In the Super Bowl year, losing Finley hurt.  Some of the others, didn't matter, and "Next Man Up" was sometimes as good or considerably better than the guy lost. 
Barnett injured, I think Bishop ended up being better anyway.
Poppinga injured, no question Matthews was zillions better anyway and would have grabbed all those snaps anyway. 
Grant wasn't too hot anyway, so while Jackson was worse, Starks ended up better.
Bulaga was probably better than Tauscher.

The volume was high, but seems to me that other than Finley, they tended to hit positions of good depth, or to guys who weren't much better than their replacements anyway. 

Of course, for now we don't know how good many of our primary guys will be, much less their potential replacements.  But hopefully injuries will be modest, and at positions with capable replacements.

Offline ricky

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 02:17:19 PM »
For those who don't believe the Packers are contenders if Rodgers stays healthy (take him away and write off the season, IMO), who do you see as significantly better than GB? Because every year brings big surprises. To write off the Packers this early, without the final roster being set, without seeing how the offense or defense play, is defeatism, IMO. And for those who want to accuse me of wearing G&G glasses, fine. Its better than looking through the lenses of doom and defeatism.
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Offline The GM

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 05:39:15 PM »
Rodgers will keep the Packers in contention as long as he's healthy.  The question will be the defense.  How much does Pettine improve it.  Our Linebackers are still pretty weak, and will have to rely on rookies and second year guys on the defense to really step up.   Can they?  I come from the "dont tell me, show me" school.  Rodgers, if healthy can take this team a long way.  He'll need help from Pettine to get deep into the post season.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 05:41:57 PM by The GM »

Online craig

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Re: This just in: the pack still sucks
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2018, 10:06:37 AM »
For those who don't believe the Packers are contenders if Rodgers stays healthy (take him away and write off the season, IMO), who do you see as significantly better than GB? Because every year brings big surprises. To write off the Packers this early, without the final roster being set, without seeing how the offense or defense play, is defeatism, IMO. And for those who want to accuse me of wearing G&G glasses, fine. Its better than looking through the lenses of doom and defeatism.

Ricky, I am one who said I don't think the Packers are the best or most-likely-team-to-win in the NFC, on paper, today.  I don't see the Packers as the most talented team. 

But Ricky, as you say and I wrote, every year brings surprises thanks to injuries and young players developing (or not).

Me saying I don't think they seem to be the best right now is **totally** different from saying I "don't believe the Packers are contenders".  Absolutely they are contenders; they've got a chance if a enough things break their way; if injuries are kind to them and perhaps unkind to some of the other contenders; if some young players emerge beautifully; if some old players forestall decline; if they make some key plays at key times, and opponents don't.  (This is where I disagree with whoever wrote the headline for that article, which seemed to claim that they don't have enough; I think it's unlikely that they do, but they might....)   

Huge difference between the extremes of "have no chance" and "favorite who should win and whose coach should get fired if they don't".

One NFC team that I definitely think has superior talent is Minnesota.  Their defense is great, their rookie running back looked like a stud early last season pre-injury, their WR are better and TE too; their secondary is awesome and their pass rush is fabulous.  That's a very complete team, IMO. 
I think Philly has more, pending Carson; although I fully understand the Super Bowl hangover and the resulting threat. 
I think the Rams are probably more talented and better shot.  (Although the distraction of LA can be a big threat too....)
And I think there are other teams who might be rising, and if some things go right for them, could be very good too. 

Should be fun to see how the Packers can compete, and how many games they can win against other teams that are good. Am really looking forward to seeing how they can improve themselves and how they can compete.