September 25, 2018, 10:09:03 PM

Author Topic: Great editorial on kneeling issue  (Read 508 times)

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Online marklawrence

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Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2018, 04:33:37 AM »
So the NFL has bad boys in it. I'm just shocked.   ???

I never understood this sports-star hero worship thing, and how fans that indulged in these things were so shocked, when their hero fell from grace. Certainly when I was young, say from 5-20, while I appreciated good players, I never 'worshipped' anyone. Footballers shouldn't be stuck on a pedestal and looked up to, as though they were shining beacons of righteousness. Love them as a player - ok, but don't project onto them or expect outstanding moral behaviour. They are just people, with the failings of people (and considering the tough background of many players, they may have more failings than the average Joe on the street).

You can love Favre on the field and hate the things that he did at the end of his career, seperating the player on the field from the inner recesses of his character. As with Favre, so with all the other players. If they are a wonderful person off the field, that's a bonus, if they are not, it's up to you whether you love them, hate them, or just ignore their failings. Players contain all the good things and all the bad things within them in different measure......in short, 'it is what it is'.
(ricky) "Personally, I'm putting this in a box, driving a stake through its heart, firing a silver bullet into its (empty) head, nailing it shut, loading it into a rocket and firing it into the sun. "

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Online marklawrence

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2018, 04:46:48 AM »
That's all true, but it still leaves the NFL and the nflpa colluding to kill off their golden goose.

But then this is the era when we all learned to hate our incredibly highly paid and highly outspoken entertainers.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 04:47:31 AM by marklawrence »
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Online ricky

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2018, 12:38:56 PM »
This won't do any good, but I'll try. There were no "anthem protests". There were protests during the anthem. The specific issue being protested was the perceived (and quite probably real) mistreatment of minorities by police officers. Kaepernick began by sitting, but was advised by a retired Navy Seal (I believe) that instead, taking a knee would be acceptable, since this is what fallen comrades routinely do at military funerals. The issue was blown into an anti-anthem/anti-veterans/anti-military/anti-American act of treason. Also, lets recall that the players used to go onto the field to warm up, return to the locker room (during which the anthem was played), then returned to the field. Was this a protest? Was this ani anything? Nope. Just how it was done. Then the NFL decided all players should be on the field. And Kaepernick decided that the big stage could provide him a chance to make a statement, and hopefully get some intelligent discussion started. Fat chance in today's political climate.

Now, is Kaepernick not on a team because of his stand? Yes, IMO. So, the NY Post decides this is terrible. And so are (most?) of the NFL players, even though it is a small minority of them who actually commit criminal acts. Even fewer if you get rid of those increasingly outdated  marijuana suspensions. Now, the Post points out Adam "Pacman" Jones. And asks if not hiring him would be "collusion". But these are two completely different cases. That Kaepernick wore socks that were inappropriate is deplorable. But to somehow conflate Jones and Kaepernick's actions is simply ludicrous. Jones is a known thug. Yet he keeps playing in the NFL. Kaepernick made a political stand, and he is unemployed. What is the Post suggesting? And as far as workplaces go, when you have thousands of paying customers paying to see you work, with millions more watching on television, then you can say your workplace and a football player's workplace is identical.

A late thought. Why include this incendiary editorial? Why re-ignite this divisive issue? Though, of course, I definitely defend your right to post whatever you want. The land of the free, and the home of the Braves? Chiefs? Or the brave- and how we decide to define bravery will probably change over time. Remember, Muhammad Ali was once seen as a traitor. etc.



 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 01:07:14 PM by ricky »
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Online marklawrence

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2018, 01:35:07 PM »
A whole bunch of unconvincing theory. Meanwhile ratings continue to decline. While you argue that millions of offended Americans are wrong. In the end football is just another form of entertainment, and when it ceases being entertaining it's going to cease to exist.

More immediately the next tv contracts are likely to be for less money, which means a lower cap, which means a lot of trouble for everyone.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 01:37:51 PM by marklawrence »
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Online ricky

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2018, 02:53:34 PM »
A whole bunch of unconvincing theory.

Theory? When I offered my opinion, I noted it. The first paragraph of my response is factual, not theory. I also stated that the jobs of NFL players (and, by extension, other professionals we pay to see or hear) are not the same as those who work "regular jobs".

 Meanwhile ratings continue to decline.

True. But how much of this is the increased use of non-polled media should be taken into account. Though definitely, there are a lot of people who are not tuning in to watch games. Though the games still continue to get very large audiences.

 While you argue that millions of offended Americans are wrong.

To every person who believes that Kaepernick was protesting the anthem/vets/military, yes, they are wrong. That is a fact. Not a perception. Kaepernick was very clear on why he was protesting. If you choose not to believe him, or decide that a different narrative is the correct one, that is your right. But it does not mean you are correct. Just that you are ignoring facts in favor of an individual/group agenda.


In the end football is just another form of entertainment, and when it ceases being entertaining it's going to cease to exist.

Football isn't entertaining? Because a handful of players decided to protest perceived police excesses? Seriously? So, you're going to skip the game tonight because it won't be entertaining? I'll be watching. But if it was the Browns and Ravens, I wouldn't watch, because that game, indeed, would not be entertaining to me. If you want to protest the decline of the NFL, look to the rules changes that are effectively preventing a QB from being tackled while in the act of passing.

More immediately the next tv contracts are likely to be for less money, which means a lower cap, which means a lot of trouble for everyone.

Maybe. Maybe not. We'll see. IF advertising revenues are down significantly enough, then, indeed, the new TV contract might be for less. But what about the other platforms that are vying for respectability, and are willing to throw a lot of money at the NFL for the right to broadcast games?
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline LMG

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 04:06:41 PM »
Never heard a peep out of these so called protesters during the off-season. Did I miss something?


Now that the season ison a few are are at it again. I'm not at all against exercising one's rights just not on my dime.


Guess the NFL is OK for them to use Team Venues for their ranting...how sad!!







If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Online ricky

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2018, 04:20:29 PM »
Never heard a peep out of these so called protesters during the off-season. Did I miss something?

Did you follow their tweets? Interact with them on Facebook, or Snapchat or other social media sites? Maybe you did miss something. Maybe not.


Now that the season ison a few are are at it again. I'm not at all against exercising one's rights just not on my dime.

"Not on my dime." What does that mean? How much does it cost you to watch the game on TV, or wherever you watch? And if you don't want to see a protest, skip the intros and wait until the game starts. Problem solved. A protest is only effective if it is seen or heard.


Guess the NFL is OK for them to use Team Venues for their ranting...how sad!!

This is an NFL policy? Or a team decision? Or has the NFL turned this decision over to the individual teams? And why "how sad!"? There was apparently no problem when the military was paying the NFL to include military displays, including "flyovers". Not enough money to get the veterans the help they need, but money to waste on useless displays of "patriotism"? THAT is sad!  :(
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 04:23:41 PM by ricky »
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Offline LMG

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2018, 05:05:44 PM »
Never heard a peep out of these so called protesters during the off-season. Did I miss something?

Did you follow their tweets? Interact with them on Facebook, or Snapchat or other social media sites? Maybe you did miss something. Maybe not.

Nope...the only time I even hear/see anything about them is when they are doing their 'thing' in NFL stadiums. Have they done anying in the off seaon?


Now that the season ison a few are are at it again. I'm not at all against exercising one's rights just not on my dime.

"Not on my dime." What does that mean? How much does it cost you to watch the game on TV, or wherever you watch? And if you don't want to see a protest, skip the intros and wait until the game starts. Problem solved. A protest is only effective if it is seen or heard.

I've been paying for our 4 season tickets at Lambeau for decades and before that my dad bought and paid for the original same tickets when the Packers built City Stadium in 1957 and were looking for seat revenue. Trust me 'dime' is not the correct monetary demonination.


Guess the NFL is OK for them to use Team Venues for their ranting...how sad!!

This is an NFL policy? Or a team decision? Or has the NFL turned this decision over to the individual teams? And why "how sad!"? There was apparently no problem when the military was paying the NFL to include military displays, including "flyovers". Not enough money to get the veterans the help they need, but money to waste on useless displays of "patriotism"? THAT is sad!  :( 

The NFL has no spine and now they have let politics enter the game which is supposed to be entertaining and not a vehicle for them or the players to express political views.

OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM is PATRIOTISM for our Country and what it stands for. Military presence in the form of flyovers towards the end of the anthem, having military service people carrying OUR FLAG onto the field and the singing by the fans in the stadium all shows respect for our history in war and peace.


Have you ever been to Lambeau or City Stadium previously to share the experience?

What's sad again is that these 'protests' have no place inside venues taking advantage of what's going on that has nothing to do with what they protesting. How about they take their protests out in the parkin lots or renting a theater, arena, maybe a park to have a rally?



If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Online ricky

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2018, 05:40:12 PM »
Never heard a peep out of these so called protesters during the off-season. Did I miss something?

Did you follow their tweets? Interact with them on Facebook, or Snapchat or other social media sites? Maybe you did miss something. Maybe not.

Nope...the only time I even hear/see anything about them is when they are doing their 'thing' in NFL stadiums. Have they done anying in the off seaon?

This is called "begging the question." You asked if they had, and then say "I don't know." Well, if its important to you, find out and let us know.


Now that the season ison a few are are at it again. I'm not at all against exercising one's rights just not on my dime.

"Not on my dime." What does that mean? How much does it cost you to watch the game on TV, or wherever you watch? And if you don't want to see a protest, skip the intros and wait until the game starts. Problem solved. A protest is only effective if it is seen or heard.

I've been paying for our 4 season tickets at Lambeau for decades and before that my dad bought and paid for the original same tickets when the Packers built City Stadium in 1957 and were looking for seat revenue. Trust me 'dime' is not the correct monetary demonination.


So you buy tickets. And if you'd gone to the game, not one Packers player ever knelt. It was the citizens of Brown County who paid for the stadium and some of the upgrades. The team paid for other upgrades. So, compared to the cost of the renovations, indeed, your contribution is indeed "dimes" in the larger, multi-million dollar scheme of things.

Guess the NFL is OK for them to use Team Venues for their ranting...how sad!!

This is an NFL policy? Or a team decision? Or has the NFL turned this decision over to the individual teams? And why "how sad!"? There was apparently no problem when the military was paying the NFL to include military displays, including "flyovers". Not enough money to get the veterans the help they need, but money to waste on useless displays of "patriotism"? THAT is sad!  :( 

The NFL has no spine and now they have let politics enter the game which is supposed to be entertaining and not a vehicle for them or the players to express political views.

Once the NFL started taking money from the military to allow military displays before games, the NFL embraced politics. so, as long as it was "patriotic" it was OK? But when some players (again, a mere handful) decided to use these venues to protest against injustice, they are villains. So, politics is OK, as long as its the right politics?

OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM is PATRIOTISM for our Country and what it stands for. Military presence in the form of flyovers towards the end of the anthem, having military service people carrying OUR FLAG onto the field and the singing by the fans in the stadium all shows respect for our history in war and peace.



Again, these were paid for by the military. And by the bye, if Kaepernick had been protesting the shameful way veterans are treated by this country, would you be just as upset? Or would you be upset, but start agitating for better treatment for vets? 
Have you ever been to Lambeau or City Stadium previously to share the experience?

Been to Lambeau numerous times. Shared the experience in both exhibition games and in mid-December. What is your point by this question? 

What's sad again is that these 'protests' have no place inside venues taking advantage of what's going on that has nothing to do with what they protesting. How about they take their protests out in the parkin lots or renting a theater, arena, maybe a park to have a rally?


Again, different points of view. You applaud paid celebrations of the military, which somehow is seen as "patriotic". But a few players calling attention to a serious issue? If a politician goes to a state fair, does that make it less enjoyable because politics has been injected into a non-political arena?


When I first responded, I wrote "This won't do any good but I'll try." I have. Can we close off this fruitless discussion? Or should we continue to butt heads over an issue we will never agree on?
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline LMG

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2018, 05:50:57 PM »
I'm sorry you just don't get it!!




















Now I'm done!!!


Carry on....
If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Offline LMG

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2018, 07:40:46 PM »
NFL doesn't have the balls but some of the teams do....





Carry on.....
If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Online The GM

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2018, 09:29:06 PM »
NFL doesn't have the balls but some of the teams do....





Carry on.....

One of the greatest posts in years.   clap) clap) clap)


Offline Bignutz

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2018, 06:56:22 AM »
Never heard a peep out of these so called protesters during the off-season. Did I miss something?


Now that the season ison a few are are at it again. I'm not at all against exercising one's rights just not on my dime.


Guess the NFL is OK for them to use Team Venues for their ranting...how sad!!


Well put.

Online Gregg

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Re: Great editorial on kneeling issue
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2018, 10:05:49 AM »
Has it ever been adjudicated in the NFL that once you report to the game site, you are not a citizen anymore?

And therefore you give up your first amendment rights.