October 16, 2019, 12:25:22 PM

Author Topic: O line  (Read 7776 times)

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Offline dannobanano

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Re: O line
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2018, 06:20:56 PM »
Top free agent OL is hard to find. Teams tend to keep their best O-linemen, so what you get in FA tends to be rump roast instead of prime rib. Especially for OT’s.

If Cole Madison comes back it would be a big help. You could put him next to Bak and have a potentially great left side. Move Lane Taylor to the Right Guard (his more natural side) and then use the draft to find a good Right OT.

Offline skcusICH

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Re: O line
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2018, 08:03:22 AM »
Brees hasn't been sacked in the last 4 games. That includes games against the Vikings, Rams, and Eagles. I don't even have words for that...damn impressive. What that offense is doing is absolutely amazing.

I think as Packers fans, we're at the point where we look at it as a success if Rodgers doesn't get sacked on a given drive...while the Saints are going an entire quarter of a season without allowing a sack. Perspective

It's tough to find a complete o-line that can do it all and keep them all healthy. The 2nd half of 2014 was the last time we really saw our o-line playing at a league best level. That was a fun stretch of games.

Offline RT

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Re: O line
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2018, 08:36:53 AM »
I normally just ignore these threads when people are this far lost in the weeds and I probably should of today also, but the fact that people don't understand that the Packers OL is a very good unit and has been for several years is baffling to me. They have been one of the bright spots for the Packers this season. They are at the top of the NFL in rush average, lead the league in yards by runner before contact. Are in the top 25% of the NFL in fewest QB pressures per attempt even with how long that Rodgers holds onto the ball in an attempt to extend plays.


They do need to address RG because that has been a revolving door and they will, but the other 4 have been rock solid professionals.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-10


Offline PackerYakker

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Re: O line
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2018, 10:08:53 AM »
I normally just ignore these threads when people are this far lost in the weeds and I probably should of today also, but the fact that people don't understand that the Packers OL is a very good unit and has been for several years is baffling to me. They have been one of the bright spots for the Packers this season. They are at the top of the NFL in rush average, lead the league in yards by runner before contact. Are in the top 25% of the NFL in fewest QB pressures per attempt even with how long that Rodgers holds onto the ball in an attempt to extend plays.

They do need to address RG because that has been a revolving door and they will, but the other 4 have been rock solid professionals.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-10

Per PFF, Lane Taylor ranks 32nd. That's not rock solid. That's JAG. He's never been any better and never will be. Byron Bell ranks 68th, making him one of, if not the lowest rated starter at G. He's a liability.

GB's guard play has gone from elite to mediocre over the past 3 years. They've invested basically no draft capital at the position for nearly a decade. The current group consists strictly of undrafted players and a cast-off. GB is getting what they paid for.

The run game has been productive because of Jones' special talents. The numbers you cite would be quite different with Jamal Williams as the lead back.
The passing offense will continue to suffer until they get better at both G positions. Rodgers is skittish in the pocket in part because he rightfully doesn't trust the guard play. Justin McCray has some potential and should be starting ahead of Bell. They need to see what he can do. Taylor is set to make nearly $5M in salary next year and clearly isn't worth it. They need to finally spend a quality draft pick and get him out of the lineup ASAP.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 10:09:33 AM by PackerYakker »

Offline RT

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Re: O line
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2018, 01:13:09 PM »
I normally just ignore these threads when people are this far lost in the weeds and I probably should of today also, but the fact that people don't understand that the Packers OL is a very good unit and has been for several years is baffling to me. They have been one of the bright spots for the Packers this season. They are at the top of the NFL in rush average, lead the league in yards by runner before contact. Are in the top 25% of the NFL in fewest QB pressures per attempt even with how long that Rodgers holds onto the ball in an attempt to extend plays.

They do need to address RG because that has been a revolving door and they will, but the other 4 have been rock solid professionals.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-10

Per PFF, Lane Taylor ranks 32nd. That's not rock solid. That's JAG. He's never been any better and never will be. Byron Bell ranks 68th, making him one of, if not the lowest rated starter at G. He's a liability.

GB's guard play has gone from elite to mediocre over the past 3 years. They've invested basically no draft capital at the position for nearly a decade. The current group consists strictly of undrafted players and a cast-off. GB is getting what they paid for.

The run game has been productive because of Jones' special talents. The numbers you cite would be quite different with Jamal Williams as the lead back.
The passing offense will continue to suffer until they get better at both G positions. Rodgers is skittish in the pocket in part because he rightfully doesn't trust the guard play. Justin McCray has some potential and should be starting ahead of Bell. They need to see what he can do. Taylor is set to make nearly $5M in salary next year and clearly isn't worth it. They need to finally spend a quality draft pick and get him out of the lineup ASAP.


The topic title is 'O line' and my point is that they have been playing a lot better than what they are publicly given credit for. In your usage of PFF's rankings to build a case against Taylor you left out the most important ranking that they provide and that is the ranking as a unit. PFF ranks the Packers 2nd of all OL units in the NFL this season and have been a top 10 unit for the past 3 seasons.


I don't believe anyone has ever made a case that Bell is the answer at RG, I stated when they signed him that he has never been a quality player and probably never will be a quality player. In my first posting I stated that "they do need to address RG because that has been a revolving door and they will". Even with Bell in the line-up they are still the 2nd ranked OL.


As for Taylor, I believe the Packers are quite happy with his production and don't believe he is going anywhere for 2 more years. His contract is very friendly for his position and level of play. In 2019 his base salary is 2.6M with 1.5M in possible bonuses, in 2020 his base salary is 3.8M with 750K in possible bonuses. True he is ranked 32nd, but is probably in the top 25% in run blocking and in the bottom 25% in pass blocking. Him and Linsley are what make the Packers run game work. His value to the Packers is far greater than his 32nd ranking on PFF.


Aaron Jones is a gifted player with the ball in his hands, but to credit him as the lone reason for the rush numbers is an unfair claim against the OL. Jones has account for only 44.7% of the rushes this season that factor into these stats. Yes Jones is a special runner, but is he more special than every RB in the NFL? Because that is what is being compared here, the Packers OL and all of their runners vs. 31 other OL's and all of their runners.     

Offline mtsportsfan

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Re: O line
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2018, 05:20:34 PM »
Rt gotta say when you post I more often agree . Not only when you say something you have facts to back it up. You put up number for your point of view, and numbers don't generally lie. But the o-line does not pass the eyeball test! Not talking about the tackles but the guards. There is just to much pressure up the middle and because of that Rodgers is getting happy feet . I feel we need better players in in those positions. You stated that most teams keep there own lineman which I agree, but it still wouldn't take much to get better there. Not asking for the most expensive free agent, just better than the ones we have.

Offline SET4YRS

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Re: O line
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2018, 07:46:23 PM »
 WR's that gain Rodgers' trust and consistently get open would make every team ranking across both offense and defense look better.  I don't put too much into PFF ratings. Funny seeing Bakhtiari get snubbed for the Pro Bowl and make the All Pro team. Anyway, about to hit an easier stretch in the schedule. Surely about to pad the stats that people want.



Offline packdaddy

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Re: O line
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2018, 12:12:59 AM »
Rodger's sack total is typically elevated because of his refusal to throw to the open guy early (or maybe he just doesn't see it). He does his oline no favors.

Offline RT

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Re: O line
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2018, 02:18:44 PM »
Rt gotta say when you post I more often agree . Not only when you say something you have facts to back it up. You put up number for your point of view, and numbers don't generally lie. But the o-line does not pass the eyeball test! Not talking about the tackles but the guards. There is just to much pressure up the middle and because of that Rodgers is getting happy feet . I feel we need better players in in those positions. You stated that most teams keep there own lineman which I agree, but it still wouldn't take much to get better there. Not asking for the most expensive free agent, just better than the ones we have.


Not claiming that they can't improve and continue to add talent, they will do that every year at every position. My postings are in response to the people that think they are horrible, most everyone sucks and the Packers need to blow the whole thing up. I would guess that finding a longer term answer at RG is one of the things that is at the top of Gute's to do list. But in short, the production has been much better than some are crying about.

Offline Gregg

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Re: O line
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2018, 01:31:30 PM »
You know RT, there is an old line about statistics which I won't repeat here because its profane.

Green Bay is ranked 21st in the NFL per rushing offense.

In sacks per game we are in the bottom five, giving up about three and a half per game.

Now, how that translates into a top two OL in the NFL escapes me.  What are they drinking over at PFF?  If you give up that many sacks, and you have a bottom third rushing game, how does that indicate a good OL?

What matters to me, and I think to most people, is simple: results.  A good OL does not allow that many sacks.  And before anyone says, well AR holds the ball, let me add this: he is also a good escape artist.  Which means he saves as many sacks as he causes.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 01:49:21 PM by Gregg »

Offline RT

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Re: O line
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2018, 11:41:21 AM »

Offline #66

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Re: O line
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2019, 12:32:00 PM »
If GB can solidify RG then these stats will really go up.  OL is always the best example of the weakest link breaking the chain.  Bakhtiari and Bulaga do not get the respect that they deserve from the masses and Linsley has been incredibly consistent.  GB is happy with Taylor - especially at that price.  Could be a real shot in the arm if Madison can do something this year.  My concern, beyond RG, is the loss of Campen.
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Offline ricky

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Re: O line
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2019, 05:50:03 PM »
Found this when googling Cole Madison. Add salt as needed, but this this the first time I've heard what his off field issues were:

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/9noaki/any_update_on_cole_madison_recently/
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Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: O line
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2019, 02:21:27 AM »
I am agreeing with RT about the quality of the o line as a unit. It is a very good unit, but with some concerns.
The excellent: David Bakhtiari
The very good: Corey Linsley
The good: Bryan Bulaga
The good enough: Lane Taylor
The bad: Byron Bell

What the O line needs. One starting RG, and one replacement for Bulaga after 2019. These can be fixed (for 2019) with just one pick. A guy like Cody Ford (draft, round 2) could fill in at RG and move to RT in 2020. Then the Packers would still need a RG in 2020, but the need is pushed a year into the future. Dalton Risner is another in this draft who could do the RG/RT thing. A lesser (and cheaper) version of Ford would be G Connor McGovern, but he doesn't have eventual RT capability.
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Online craig

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Re: O line
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2019, 05:43:14 AM »
Good thought, 1265.
I like your point that it's a very good unit with some concerns.  That a good guard would impact.
 
I'd kinda like to maybe see a double-dip:  both sign a good FA guard, AND spend a variably high draft pick on an OL.

A reason I'd like to double-dip is that if you add one guy to eliminate your last concern, then the minute one of the 5 guys gets hurt you're back to having a vulnerable spot.  Plus of course you're trusting that the guy you pick is going to be good day one, unlike high picks past such as Spriggs and Sherrod.  It would be so nice to have a prospect with a chance to perhaps be really good waiting in line, kind of like Bulaga as a rookie.   

I realize the roster is thin all over, so aspiring to have any depth at OL might be unrealistically obsessive!