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Author Topic: TT doesn't sign free agents  (Read 16094 times)

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Antonio Andolini

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 03:52:02 PM »
Finally, if free agency is just the price you pay for NOT DRAFTING WELL, how do you explain the 49ers? Have the Niners not drafted well in selecting the likes of Gore, Kaepernick, James, Crabtree, V. Davis, Iupati, Davis, Staley, A. Smith, P. Willis, I. Sopoaga, N. Bowman, C. Culliver, T. Brown, D. Goldson? I submit they have drafted very well, but they have also done very well in free agency -- Justin Smith, Donte Whitner, Carlos Rogers, Randy Moss, Mario Manningham, Jonathan Goodwin.

Justin Smith was signed in '08 because they had failed to get DEs in the draft. At the time Smith signed to become one of the highest paid DEs in the league. For a guy who over 7 years averaged 6 sacks a year and was coming off a 2 sack yr and was a 4/3 DE. Kentwan Balmer 1st rd, Ray McDonald 3rd rd, Anthony Adams 2nd rd, and Andrew Williams 3rd rd were the players selected to fill his role before him. They all failed. The 49ers had also sucked for almost a decade and were desperate to improve. It has worked out well but the bad drafting before this lead to his signing.

Donte Whitner's signing was necessitated by busting on Taylor Mays in the 2nd rd. Carlos Rodgers need to be signed because the only recent high pick on a CB was Reggie Smith 3rd rd a couple of years before. They desperately needed CBs because they could not address the issue effectively in the draft.

They needed to sign Moss and Manningham because they had zero depth at WR and Crabtree had seriously under preformed before this year.

This was a team with many holes for many years, they couldn't address all of their needs in the draft so they had no choice but to go out and sign FAs. At that same time we had a deep roster with far fewer holes and the better veteran talent on our team was being paid well. FAs wasn't as big of a need and our $ was being spent else where.

AldenRoche

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 04:18:25 PM »
Finally, if free agency is just the price you pay for NOT DRAFTING WELL, how do you explain the 49ers? Have the Niners not drafted well in selecting the likes of Gore, Kaepernick, James, Crabtree, V. Davis, Iupati, Davis, Staley, A. Smith, P. Willis, I. Sopoaga, N. Bowman, C. Culliver, T. Brown, D. Goldson? I submit they have drafted very well, but they have also done very well in free agency -- Justin Smith, Donte Whitner, Carlos Rogers, Randy Moss, Mario Manningham, Jonathan Goodwin.

Justin Smith was signed in '08 because they had failed to get DEs in the draft. At the time Smith signed to become one of the highest paid DEs in the league. For a guy who over 7 years averaged 6 sacks a year and was coming off a 2 sack yr and was a 4/3 DE. Kentwan Balmer 1st rd, Ray McDonald 3rd rd, Anthony Adams 2nd rd, and Andrew Williams 3rd rd were the players selected to fill his role before him. They all failed. The 49ers had also sucked for almost a decade and were desperate to improve. It has worked out well but the bad drafting before this lead to his signing.

Donte Whitner's signing was necessitated by busting on Taylor Mays in the 2nd rd. Carlos Rodgers need to be signed because the only recent high pick on a CB was Reggie Smith 3rd rd a couple of years before. They desperately needed CBs because they could not address the issue effectively in the draft.

They needed to sign Moss and Manningham because they had zero depth at WR and Crabtree had seriously under preformed before this year.

This was a team with many holes for many years, they couldn't address all of their needs in the draft so they had no choice but to go out and sign FAs. At that same time we had a deep roster with far fewer holes and the better veteran talent on our team was being paid well. FAs wasn't as big of a need and our $ was being spent else where.

You characterize the Niners as "desperate" to sign FAs because of failed draft picks, and believe the Pack has had no reason to sign FAs because GB had far fewer holes than did the Niners when these signings took place (including Moss and Manningham last offseason).

And therein lies the $64,000 question, AT THIS TIME (not some unspecified time in the past) do the Packers still have "far fewer holes and the better veteran talent on [their] team" than the Niners or even the Seahawks? Even the most fanatical Packer fan would have to concede the Niners have more talent.

Moreover, our deficiencies at Safety, DLine, and LB have been evident for at least 2 years and even if TT devotes yet another draft to the D, i doubt he can address "all of their needs" through the draft alone. (Not to mention the issues at RB, C, and LT -- I mean aren't Brandon Jackson, Alex Green, and James Starks personifications of TT's failure to draft an adequate RB?)

Given the reality of the Pack's roster shortcomings AT THIS TIME do you believe TT will attempt to acquire (via free agency or trade) genuine veteran talent (not a Saturday stopgap or bargain basement Benson) like the Niners did? Me neither.

Unlike the Niners, we seem content to sink or swim with our draftees and (for some reason UDFAs like Walden). We shall see if it works any better in 2013.

Offline realitybytes

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2013, 05:54:03 PM »
Finally, if free agency is just the price you pay for NOT DRAFTING WELL, how do you explain the 49ers? Have the Niners not drafted well in selecting the likes of Gore, Kaepernick, James, Crabtree, V. Davis, Iupati, Davis, Staley, A. Smith, P. Willis, I. Sopoaga, N. Bowman, C. Culliver, T. Brown, D. Goldson? I submit they have drafted very well, but they have also done very well in free agency -- Justin Smith, Donte Whitner, Carlos Rogers, Randy Moss, Mario Manningham, Jonathan Goodwin.

Justin Smith was signed in '08 because they had failed to get DEs in the draft. At the time Smith signed to become one of the highest paid DEs in the league. For a guy who over 7 years averaged 6 sacks a year and was coming off a 2 sack yr and was a 4/3 DE. Kentwan Balmer 1st rd, Ray McDonald 3rd rd, Anthony Adams 2nd rd, and Andrew Williams 3rd rd were the players selected to fill his role before him. They all failed. The 49ers had also sucked for almost a decade and were desperate to improve. It has worked out well but the bad drafting before this lead to his signing.

Donte Whitner's signing was necessitated by busting on Taylor Mays in the 2nd rd. Carlos Rodgers need to be signed because the only recent high pick on a CB was Reggie Smith 3rd rd a couple of years before. They desperately needed CBs because they could not address the issue effectively in the draft.

They needed to sign Moss and Manningham because they had zero depth at WR and Crabtree had seriously under preformed before this year.

This was a team with many holes for many years, they couldn't address all of their needs in the draft so they had no choice but to go out and sign FAs. At that same time we had a deep roster with far fewer holes and the better veteran talent on our team was being paid well. FAs wasn't as big of a need and our $ was being spent else where.

You characterize the Niners as "desperate" to sign FAs because of failed draft picks, and believe the Pack has had no reason to sign FAs because GB had far fewer holes than did the Niners when these signings took place (including Moss and Manningham last offseason).

And therein lies the $64,000 question, AT THIS TIME (not some unspecified time in the past) do the Packers still have "far fewer holes and the better veteran talent on [their] team" than the Niners or even the Seahawks? Even the most fanatical Packer fan would have to concede the Niners have more talent.

Moreover, our deficiencies at Safety, DLine, and LB have been evident for at least 2 years and even if TT devotes yet another draft to the D, i doubt he can address "all of their needs" through the draft alone. (Not to mention the issues at RB, C, and LT -- I mean aren't Brandon Jackson, Alex Green, and James Starks personifications of TT's failure to draft an adequate RB?)

Given the reality of the Pack's roster shortcomings AT THIS TIME do you believe TT will attempt to acquire (via free agency or trade) genuine veteran talent (not a Saturday stopgap or bargain basement Benson) like the Niners did? Me neither.

Unlike the Niners, we seem content to sink or swim with our draftees and (for some reason UDFAs like Walden). We shall see if it works any better in 2013.

not only do the 49ers have more talent on their roster, i would go so far as to say that there are fewer than a half dozen packers that would be starters for the 49ers. they have out-drafted, out-traded, out-freeagented, and out-developed the packers in almost every area.
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Antonio Andolini

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2013, 08:18:55 PM »
not only do the 49ers have more talent on their roster, i would go so far as to say that there are fewer than a half dozen packers that would be starters for the 49ers. they have out-drafted, out-traded, out-freeagented, and out-developed the packers in almost every area.

Ok I'll bite, just because I think it'll be an interesting exercise.

QB: Rodgers>Kaepernick
RB:  Harris<Gore
#1WR  Jennings>Crabtree
#2WR  Nelson>Manningham
#3WR  Jones>Moss
#4WR  Cobb>Ginn
TE  Finley<Davis
LT  Newhouse<Staley
LG  Lang<Iupati
C  EDS<Goodwin
RG  Sitton>Boone
RT  Bulaga>Davis

DE Wilson<J. Smith
NT  Raji>Sopoaga
DE  Pickett>McDonald
OLB  CMIII>Brooks
ILB  Hawk<Willis
ILB  Bishop<Bowman
OLB  Perry<A. Smith
CB  Williams>Rodgers
CB  Shields>Brown
CB  Hayward>Culliver
FS  Burnett<Gholdson
SS  McMillan<Whitner

13 Packers starting over 49ers out of 24 positions, I know this is subjective but I tried to be unbiased in my evaluation. The close calls: Bulaga>Davis, Raji>Sopoaga, Williams>Rodgers, Burnett<Gholdson

AldenRoche

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2013, 08:46:02 PM »
ARod > CK
Gore > Harris
Miller > Kuhn
Crabtree > Jennings
Cobb > Manningham
Davis > Finley
Davis > Bulaga
Sitton > Boone
Goodwin > EDS
Iupati > Lang
Staley > Newhouse
McDonald = Pickett
Raji > Sopoaga
Smith > Wilson
Brooks > Perry/Walden/Zombo/Moses
Willis >>>> Hawk
Bowman > Bishop
Matthews = A. Smith
Rogers > T. Williams
Shields >  Brown
Whitner > Burnett
Goldson > Jennings
Lee P > Masthay
Crosby = Akers -- they both stink

I have 5 Packers being better than their Niner opposites and 3 being equal out of 24 positions.

Antonio Andolini

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2013, 09:26:50 PM »
I can see how you differed on the choices and its not a huge debate. Crabtree only has one year of playing well vs Jennings years of being a top 5 WR in the league, but Jennings was injured this year. I think Tramon is a better cover corner than Rodgers, Carlos had some serious struggles this year, far more than Tramon. Even though we both rated Gholdson>Burnett, I would rather have Burnett at this point in their careers. I believe the ceiling is higher on Burnett. Gholdson has some serious limitations in coverage, his INT total lead him to be voted to the Pro Bowl and got him a high franchise tag salary. Picks alone are the easiest way for a safety to be over rated and therefor over paid, that is my opinion of Dashon. Since teams run so many 3 and 4 WR sets, I think it is important to include those WRs and CBs in the ranking, all of them are Packers IMO. I forgot to list House>Brock at dime CB.

I see what you are saying overall and there is no debating the fact that the 49ers have built a talented team that has gotten them to the SB. Will they win it all? They are certainly talented enough to do it. After 2 seasons of success, can they maintain their high level of play for the next two seasons. That's where the Packers are in relation to where the 49ers are, 2 seasons removed from our SB. Will their FA acquisitions have aged out of the league in 2 years? Will they have had to let some of their young ascending players walk in FA because they are paying higher prices for the veterans that they brought in. So far TTs model of draft and develop has kept us at a relatively high level for a while now. I dance with who brung me. ;D

AldenRoche

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2013, 06:34:33 AM »
I mostly agree with your points above Antonio.

I do disagree, however, with those who contend that TT does not have an aversion to acquiring bona tide veteran NFL players, whether via trade or free agency.

I also note that TT's aversion is not shared by Balt., SF, NE, Atl., or the NY Giants.


Antonio Andolini

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2013, 10:23:35 AM »
I do disagree, however, with those who contend that TT does not have an aversion to acquiring bona tide veteran NFL players, whether via trade or free agency.

I also note that TT's aversion is not shared by Balt., SF, NE, Atl., or the NY Giants.

I think it would be hard to deny that is true. My theory is that TT sees too high of a bust rate for signing free agents. Maybe he wonders how they will fit on a different team. He knows that rookies will have to have an attitude of learning/improving, while a proven good veteran might expect the team to use him just as he's always been used.

Offline Beast Light

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2013, 10:51:55 AM »
How many notable players have we lost to Free Agency over the years?

Wells, Jenkins, Colledge ....are there any others?

Offline GBkrzygrl

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2013, 11:12:53 AM »
I do disagree, however, with those who contend that TT does not have an aversion to acquiring bona tide veteran NFL players, whether via trade or free agency.

I also note that TT's aversion is not shared by Balt., SF, NE, Atl., or the NY Giants.

I think it would be hard to deny that is true. My theory is that TT sees too high of a bust rate for signing free agents. Maybe he wonders how they will fit on a different team. He knows that rookies will have to have an attitude of learning/improving, while a proven good veteran might expect the team to use him just as he's always been used.


Probably one of my dumber questions....Has TT ever said Why he does not use FA more?
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Offline vegas492

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2013, 11:23:04 AM »
Finally, if free agency is just the price you pay for NOT DRAFTING WELL, how do you explain the 49ers? Have the Niners not drafted well in selecting the likes of Gore, Kaepernick, James, Crabtree, V. Davis, Iupati, Davis, Staley, A. Smith, P. Willis, I. Sopoaga, N. Bowman, C. Culliver, T. Brown, D. Goldson? I submit they have drafted very well, but they have also done very well in free agency -- Justin Smith, Donte Whitner, Carlos Rogers, Randy Moss, Mario Manningham, Jonathan Goodwin.

Justin Smith was signed in '08 because they had failed to get DEs in the draft. At the time Smith signed to become one of the highest paid DEs in the league. For a guy who over 7 years averaged 6 sacks a year and was coming off a 2 sack yr and was a 4/3 DE. Kentwan Balmer 1st rd, Ray McDonald 3rd rd, Anthony Adams 2nd rd, and Andrew Williams 3rd rd were the players selected to fill his role before him. They all failed. The 49ers had also sucked for almost a decade and were desperate to improve. It has worked out well but the bad drafting before this lead to his signing.

Donte Whitner's signing was necessitated by busting on Taylor Mays in the 2nd rd. Carlos Rodgers need to be signed because the only recent high pick on a CB was Reggie Smith 3rd rd a couple of years before. They desperately needed CBs because they could not address the issue effectively in the draft.

They needed to sign Moss and Manningham because they had zero depth at WR and Crabtree had seriously under preformed before this year.

This was a team with many holes for many years, they couldn't address all of their needs in the draft so they had no choice but to go out and sign FAs. At that same time we had a deep roster with far fewer holes and the better veteran talent on our team was being paid well. FAs wasn't as big of a need and our $ was being spent else where.

You characterize the Niners as "desperate" to sign FAs because of failed draft picks, and believe the Pack has had no reason to sign FAs because GB had far fewer holes than did the Niners when these signings took place (including Moss and Manningham last offseason).

And therein lies the $64,000 question, AT THIS TIME (not some unspecified time in the past) do the Packers still have "far fewer holes and the better veteran talent on [their] team" than the Niners or even the Seahawks? Even the most fanatical Packer fan would have to concede the Niners have more talent.

Moreover, our deficiencies at Safety, DLine, and LB have been evident for at least 2 years and even if TT devotes yet another draft to the D, i doubt he can address "all of their needs" through the draft alone. (Not to mention the issues at RB, C, and LT -- I mean aren't Brandon Jackson, Alex Green, and James Starks personifications of TT's failure to draft an adequate RB?)

Given the reality of the Pack's roster shortcomings AT THIS TIME do you believe TT will attempt to acquire (via free agency or trade) genuine veteran talent (not a Saturday stopgap or bargain basement Benson) like the Niners did? Me neither.

Unlike the Niners, we seem content to sink or swim with our draftees and (for some reason UDFAs like Walden). We shall see if it works any better in 2013.

not only do the 49ers have more talent on their roster, i would go so far as to say that there are fewer than a half dozen packers that would be starters for the 49ers. they have out-drafted, out-traded, out-freeagented, and out-developed the packers in almost every area.

Challenge accepted!

QB: Rodgers over CK. (1)
RB: Gore
FB: who cares
WR: GJ, Nelson, Cobb, Jones vs. Crabtree and whoever else, Moss/Manningham.  GJ (2) for sure.  Nelson (3), Cobb (4). 
TE: Davis, no brainer.
OL: All 5 go to San Fran.  Maybe Sitton would start for them. Maybe
DL: Raji would play the nose for them (5).  No one else makes the cut.
OLB: Matthews would start (6). No one else.
ILB: I chuckle just to think about it.
CB: I think Tramon plays over their #2 corner.  I think Shields does too.  I'll give Sam (7), and if not him, Hayward.
Safety: None.
Punter: Doesn't count.
Kicker: Pick your poison.

So, I get 7.  I truly thought I would get more.  And that is if you give me all the WR's versus San Frans #2.  But if you look at #2 and #3 corner, we have them.  So, I have to agree with your statement above.

...And you didn't mention coaching.  Big plus on their side for that one....

Offline Jeremy

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2013, 11:45:43 AM »
I do disagree, however, with those who contend that TT does not have an aversion to acquiring bona tide veteran NFL players, whether via trade or free agency.

I also note that TT's aversion is not shared by Balt., SF, NE, Atl., or the NY Giants.

I think it would be hard to deny that is true. My theory is that TT sees too high of a bust rate for signing free agents. Maybe he wonders how they will fit on a different team. He knows that rookies will have to have an attitude of learning/improving, while a proven good veteran might expect the team to use him just as he's always been used.


Probably one of my dumber questions....Has TT ever said Why he does not use FA more?

I don't know if I've ever heard him speak on it other than to say that that they have a draft and develope philosophy.  I know there's a lot of evidence that the ROI from high priced free agents is very low.  Some work out, like Woodson.  But most don't.  I guess they actually have a presentation every year at owners meetings illustrating that fact. 

Offline realitybytes

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2013, 12:40:43 PM »
I do disagree, however, with those who contend that TT does not have an aversion to acquiring bona tide veteran NFL players, whether via trade or free agency.

I also note that TT's aversion is not shared by Balt., SF, NE, Atl., or the NY Giants.

I think it would be hard to deny that is true. My theory is that TT sees too high of a bust rate for signing free agents. Maybe he wonders how they will fit on a different team. He knows that rookies will have to have an attitude of learning/improving, while a proven good veteran might expect the team to use him just as he's always been used.


Probably one of my dumber questions....Has TT ever said Why he does not use FA more?

I don't know if I've ever heard him speak on it other than to say that that they have a draft and develope philosophy.  I know there's a lot of evidence that the ROI from high priced free agents is very low.  Some work out, like Woodson.  But most don't.  I guess they actually have a presentation every year at owners meetings illustrating that fact.

"We're going to attack free agency just like everybody does. You try to find the guys that can fit a role for your team. (But) I've said this over and over, and I hate to be a broken record: I think it's very dangerous waters to go out and spend beaucoup bucks on someone from some other team."

"We've had some losses. But I think we've helped ourselves a little bit in free agency. I don't think just because you have cap room you need to go out and spend a lot of money on players that aren't worthy of that money. We might do some more before it's all said and done."

“Obviously, you're always wishing you could go out and sign a Reggie White, but those players don't make it to free agency anymore, ... So you kind of do what you can and outside of that you work hard and get everybody on the same page with the defensive coordinator. And hope it all works.”

“I think we'll do some of that. But back then there were only 30 teams instead of 32 and there was more available talent. It's not because we're not looking. It just has to make sense. We've seen some interesting prospects.”

"No. 1, often times the grass is not greener. And secondly, I think your existing players feel like they've been slighted because you didn't take care of them when you took care of someone else. But I do think there will be opportunities to add players to our team that can come in and play a role and help our team get better."

“Do I think we're going to make a trade? No. We're calling and talking to people and things like that, but no.”
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
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Offline Pugger

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2013, 10:25:15 AM »
...
TT has a proven track record of drafting really well, arguably better than any other GM in the league. ...


yeah, i would definitely argue with that. ted has a less than stellar success rate in rounds 1-3 where expectations are high, and does a pretty decent job of finding players in rounds 4-7, where less is expected. but these are not blue-chip players. these are guys who make the roster and oftentimes end up starting because we have no other choice.

Really?

Aaron Rodgers
Nick Collins
AJ Hawk
Greg Jennings
James Jones
Jordy Nelson
Jermichael Finley
BJ Raji
Clay Matthews
Brian Bulaga
Mike Neal
Morgan Burnett
Derek Sherrod
Randal Cobb
Nick Perry
Jerel Worthy
Casey Hayward

Not exactly "less than stellar", the draft is an inexact science and nobody bats a 1.000. Yes he has missed on a few but that list looks like the core of our team to me. Considering that we are usually drafting toward the end of each round, TT has done a masterful job of  selecting players with talent, that fit our scheme, have a strong work ethic, and are good team mates. Not an easy thing to do. Josh Sitton, TJ Lang, and Desmond Bishop are also really good later rd picks. You can also include Sam Shields to this list since acquiring UDFAs falls under the draft evaluation process.


i'll start with the obvious:


justin harrell
brian brohm
pat lee
terrence murphy
aaron rouse
abdul hodge
jason spitz
brandon jackson


now, let's look at your list of guys that you think have lived up to round 1-3 status:


Aaron Rodgers - best in the biz. no argument.
Nick Collins - blue chip for sure. tragic loss.
AJ Hawk - not even close to living up to a top ten draft pick. not a playmaker. a good low 2nd/high 3rd third round talent.
Greg Jennings - i'm very borderline on this, but i'll give it to you.
James Jones - great value for a third round pick.
Jordy Nelson - i like him. he's turned out better than many thought he would.
Jermichael Finley - vastly overrated and not even close to living up to the hype.
BJ Raji - he had a couple good years, but i'm beginning to have doubts.
Clay Matthews - blue chip for sure.
Brian Bulaga - good, but has durability issues (missed nearly 25% of possible games).
Mike Neal - really??? a guy who has played in 20 out of a possible 48 regular season games?
Morgan Burnett - another guy that i'm on the fence about. he looked good when he was playing with collins, but since then ?


out of these next five guys, only one has played two full seasons. three of them haven't even made it through one full season. how can you even judge them?

Derek Sherrod - really? ??? ? based on what?
Randal Cobb - appears to be a good value pick.
Nick Perry - haven't seen anything that makes me believe this was a good pick yet.
Jerel Worthy - worthy of a 2nd round pick? maybe. tough to tell. 14 tackles in 14 games.
Casey Hayward - based on what we saw this season, this looks like a good value pick.


the only other round 1-3 picks were alex green and darren colledge. i don't think either one has lived up to their draft status, but that is debatable.


in my opinion, and i want to stress the word "opinion", these are very mediocre results for the 27 picks that ted thompson has had to work with in rounds 1-3.

How does that compare to other GMs?  If you were to take who you would consider the best drafting GMs in the business (say Ozzie Newsome, or someone else who's done it for a while) and did the same excercize, would it look a lot better, I wonder?  I honestly don't know. 

I want to say half of the players picked in the top 10 of drafts are busts or close to busts.  So it's probably crazy to expect that kind of success rate for the top 3 ROUNDS.  But maybe you can show me a GM who does hit on that many.

There is one large football site online that has fans from every team.  Each team has its own forum at this site.  It has general football forums there also.  In their NFL Comparisons forum there is a thread going right now listing the top 5 GMs in the game today and TT is consistently mentioned in that top 5 or given honorable mention by the posters there who are not Packer fans.   EVERY GM has busts.  The top ones have more hits than misses.  The draft is a crap shoot.  Just because a kid was great in college doesn't mean he'll be wonderful in the pros.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 10:27:57 AM by Pugger »

Offline rpiotr01

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Re: TT doesn't sign free agents
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2013, 10:51:49 AM »

So, I get 7.  I truly thought I would get more.  And that is if you give me all the WR's versus San Frans #2.  But if you look at #2 and #3 corner, we have them.  So, I have to agree with your statement above.

...And you didn't mention coaching.  Big plus on their side for that one....

They have so much more talent than us, and yet there we were, a mere 12-13 defensive stops and 4-5 blown coverages away from pulling an upset on the road against the mighty 49ers.